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Liddel just lost the ability to take a punch. Everyone tends to slow down, but you have to adapt your style. Liddel just has the same stuff he's had for years and either he's slowing down or everyone else is speeding up. either way, he needs to retire or change his game. it's funny, though...I watched a lot of his fights and he rarely ever gets a 1 hit ko nad it's generally gnp to a tko and his last few defeats were the 1 hit glass jaw ko style.
I'm sad to see him go. I think he should have just announced it in the ring. Having dana basically retire you is just degrading. (UFC blog for UFC news, results, videos, rumors, fights, pics and tickets — MMAmania.com) Still, wiman/stout and kristoff were worth watching. the rest was a snoozefest or just sad |
The undercard was actually pretty good. I wish they'd shown that instead of the main event snoozefest.
I'd prefer to forget that PPV sooooo... Who's gonna stay undefeated Rashad or Machida? While I can see Rashad hitting a KO, I don't think it will happen. I think Machida win and be in for a looooong reign as champ. Before his last fight that would have made me cringe, but after his fight with Thiago Silva not so much. If he fights like that, damn he's gonna be good. The biggest knock against Machida? He's never really fought any top contenders in the UFC. The Silva fight was really a fight to BE a top contender and Tito was way past his prime when he and Machida fought. |
SO apparently, UFC 101 is going to have a co-main event with Forrest Griffin facing Silva for the belt. Silva better not play possum in this one or he'll be smashed to bits.
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I saw this too and look forward to it, although I don't think it would be for the belt since the fight would likely happen at 205 and Silva has the 185 middleweight belt.
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I don't know why I said the belt. Maybe it was wishful thinking ;)
I hope Silva does get his chance to fight Fedor though. Fedor would destroy him.. that is one bad ass dude. |
Yeah I was going to say, I don't think Griffin would go down to 185 but I could definitely see Silva going back up to try out 205 again. Sounds like it could be an entertaining fight!
And yes, Fedor is the man. |
Sweet, Forrest has great heart and always puts on an exciting fight. Though I was hoping for a Anderson/ Wanderlei chute box showdown...maybe after Wanderlei's Franklin fight.
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This is supposedly going to set up a Silva/GSP matchup if both of them win their superfight matches. I don't remember all the details but it will be the event before the MSG event. I'll look it up later.
While Silva/GSP would be a great match, I hope Forrest beats the shit out of Silva; if for no other reason than Silva deserves it after the past couple of matches he's had. |
So which undefeated fighter walks out as champ this weekend, Rashad or Machida?
I'm picking Machida, to be honest Rashad has never really impressed me. |
Machida. He's my favorite fighter in the UFC. Evans fights out of my city but I gotta go for Machida.
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According to the match I played in UFC "Unleashed," Lyoto wins by kneebar.
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BTW I assume everyone has heard by now that CroCop has signed for UFC 99. God I hope he does better than his last UFC run.
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Damn, talk about accurate striking.
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Damn Machida just looks better and better everytime I see him. Man that was a possible KO of the year.
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In case you hadn't heard. Kimbo Slice is going to be on the next season of The Ultimate Fighter
UFC : Ultimate Fighting Championship |
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The opposing team sends their best wrestler and/or BJJ practitioner against Kimbo and sends him home early. He's nothing more than a heavyweight Houston Alexander. |
Did anyone catch Sanchez vs Guida on the Ultimate Fighter finale? I honestly don't know how Guida got out of the first round alive.
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Even if Sanchez got the first round 10-8, fight should've been a draw.
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yea, sorry, just seeing guida come back like that....fight should have been a draw. Far far far too close..
i find it funny, though, that the UFC ppv had almost no barnburners..and TUF finale has 3 fight of the nights... |
I am quite enjoying the fights on the VS network, Faber vs Brown is awesome to watch.
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silva will kick griffin's ass
---------- Post added at 08:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ---------- st. pierre vs alves should be good |
My UFC 100 picks
Lesnar/Mir - Lesnar by TKO in the 2nd GSP/Alves - GSP by sub in the 4th Herson/Bisping - Bisping by split decision Fitch/Thiago - Fitch by sub in the 2nd Akiyama/Belcher - Akiyama by sub in the 2nd Bonner/Coleman - Bonner by unanimous decision Danzig/Miller - Danzig by sub in the 2nd Kim/Grant - Grant by sub in the 3rd Jones/O’Brien - Jones by TKO in the 1st Dollaway/Lawlor - Dollaway by TKO in the 2nd Grice/Gugerty - Grice by sub in the 2nd |
I'm game...
Lesnar/Mir - Lesnar by TKO 2 GSP/Alves - GSP DEC Henderson/Bisping - Henderson DEC Fitch/Thiago - Fitch DEC Akiyama/Belcher - Belcher TKO 2 Bonnar/Coleman - Bonnar DEC Danzig/Miller - Miller DEC (Which is sad, I like Miller and LOVE Danzig) Kim/Grant - Grant KO 1 Jones/O’Brien - Jones by TKO 1 Dollaway/Lawlor - Dollaway SUB 2 Grice/Gugerty - Grice DEC |
Mir wins by Submission
St-Pierre by decision Bisping by TKO Thiago by submission That's all I have for now. I'm only just now getting back into MMA and haven't really kept up with everyone. |
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GSP by sub Hendo by tko ground and pound, akiyama by sub, although this is not a fighter i'm too familiar with Bonner...coleman has never really evolved danzig....insane talen, miller: creepy and insanely smart, but i'm going danzig not as familiar with the rest, but i'm hoping dollaway loses |
I really really dont see GSP/Alves going the full 5. Either Alves is going to KO him ala Serra early (doubt it but it could happen) or GSP is going to pick Alves apart and wear him out before he finishes him (I'm picking sub but I can totally see GSP by TKO from a GnP).
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I'm also going Fitch by ground and pound. He's my favorite fighter in the weight class. |
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How about TUF reject Tom Lawlor beating CB in less than a minute in what was supposed to be a gimmie for CB? :)
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Forget Hollywood, it should now be HolyShiat Henderson.
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Really cool (but long) documentary on Pride I just found on Youtube.
Part 1 (more on youtube) |
Lesnar is an assclown for his post fight antics. Karma will probably dictate that his leg gets broken in a submission by an opponent in the future. Henderson should be in jail, for his assault on an unconcious person(Hendeson bragged about how he knew the guy was out cold and hit him again, just to pay him back).
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hendo may have known he was out, but the fight was still going on and the ref didn't call it till after the 2nd hit. rampage did more to silva. some fighters hve stopped when someone was 'out' and teh ref looks at them blankly and tells htem to continue. Heck, hendo was committed ot the last shot before bisping even hit the ground. I say it's fair since bisping robbed hammil and then bragged about it. Lesnar's post fight antics were a disgrace, no doubt. It's rare to see a fighter get in someone's face after winning. Even more rare to badmouth a HUGE company sponsor in a sport looking for bigname sponsorship. I would say it's a carry over from WWE, but he hasn't been in wrestling in years...
I gotta give Lawlor a beer for beating cb...i hate that guy..same for hendo... I admit coleman shocked the hell out of me beating bonnar. |
I don't see Lesnar really staying in the UFC long. Just something about his style tells me he's going to fade out pretty quick.
The Henderson forearm was just bad... brutal.. but bad. He knows better than that shit. Now it would be nice to see a street fight between them. Supposedly, Dana White is serious about getting Fedor now. He doesn't care how much he'll cost.. and Lesnar vs. Fedor will be the main ticket. That may just be Lesnar's exit. I can't see anyone beating Fedor. |
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Fedor is an animal. Never, have I seen a fighter who's facial expression never changes. He's one cool cookie.
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It cant help the reputation of UFC to have a former WWF wrestler as a prominent fighter.
I mean, the guy may be a genuine athlete, but all the average sports fan is going to think is that the whole thing is as fake as anything else in WWF. |
super slow motion replay tends to solve that problem SF.
when you see the nose smashing and breaking in slow motion..you know it's real. |
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But Fedor is talking about a 2 million purse as if thats an outrageous demand in the article quoted above. If he genuinely was that good, he could be fighting for the heavyweight boxing title for a 10 million purse. Ive seen a youtube video of the guy fight... he cant hit, but he seemed quite cagey and awkward: and I suppose he must have adapted a good defensive style for MMA and some grappling skill to close fights out. A guy Lesner's size and build - all Fedor has to do is keep him running after him for 5 or 6 rounds and the guy will be shattered. |
:lol:
Fedor can't hit?? :lol: dude you need to hook me up with your pot dealer. seriously. |
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I like Penny Arcade a lot, and I enjoy UFC--today's comic was quite a hilarious depiction of the bad rep UFC gets. http://penny-arcade.com/images/2009/20090715.jpg |
I have seen Fedor fight when I was staying with a mate in the US and they had UFC on the TV, and also on Youtube.
In my judgment he wasnt much of a puncher, and seemed to rely on trying to frustrate the other guy into over attacking so he could put on a submission hold. These guys box with very light gloves and yet Fedor couldnt hurt most fighters I saw him against, nor could he throw combinations. He struck me as a clever, good defensive fighter. Probably a good tactic in MMA. But if he goes into a fight with a big lump like Lesner and tries to trade with him the chanes are he wont hurt him and will be hurt first. The guy has a decent record so he isnt going to fight a stupid fight - he wouldnt be 25-1 or whatever he is if he tried to stand toe to toe with bigger stronger fighters. He has to tie Lesner up, clinch a lot, jab and move - and let the big man wear himself out. |
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If the fight ever happens, I am interested to see how the different grappling backgrounds would match up. NCAA champion vs. World Sambo champion.
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Saw that video... the guy was attacking and ran in Fedor's shot.
Similar to when Lennox Lewis got knocked out by Oliver McCall Fedor isnt a weakling, any heavy man can score a big knockout if an opponent runs right into a shot, but in the context of the fight game Fedor isnt a puncher and opponents arent going to fear his power. Lesner certainly will try and walk through him, and he has to tie him up and fight negative early on to get the result. |
damn, someone beat me to the comic. I'm not in to mma, and that comic is perfect as to explaining why.
so much hype for such mediocrity half the time. It has it's moments but I just don't see why it's a billion dollar organization. I guess marketing is everything. |
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While he doesn't finish him with the KO he rocks the crap out of him and could have finished Timmah with strikes but instead goes for the rear naked choke.(BTW Sylvia was coming into this fight having just lost a VERY close fight for the UFC Interm HW Title against Big Nog who was widely considered as one of the top HWs at the time) Skip ahead to about 4 minutes in or so if you want to skip the introductions as they're kind of long. |
Strange Famous makes a fairly valid point, hell, looking at the Sylvia fight you'd note that he has only 6 KO's in his 27 victories. Granted he has posterized Arlovski, and completely rocked Sylvia, but Fedor really is more into using his Sambo to take the fight to the ground and ripping people's arms off.
Fedor isn't an elite striker. He is not a Muay Thai style striker, he has an un-orthodox boxing style which is serviceable, he has very solid ground and pound. I don't know how that would play against Brock, as Lesnar would have 50 pounds on Fedor and be virtually immune to any takedowns. I don't know if Fedor's striking would do much against Brock unless he employed Couture's dirty boxing/clinch techinque, as he is probably giving up at least 6 inches in reach minimum. I think you are delusional if you think Fedor is going to be able to submit Brock. Fedor really doesn't utilize Ju-Jitsu style submissions, he is just a calm fighter with a granite chin, when the fight between him and Lesnar gets to the ground I see a repeat of what happened to Mir; Brock controlling him outside guard and mauling him like a grizzly bear. |
Yeah but what's Brock's chin like? We really haven't seen him take any hard hard shots yet like Fedor landed on Timmah and Arlovski.
As far as being "immune" to take downs. Brock can be taken down. His legs aren't that big when compaired to the rest of his body. While arm bars against Brock would be tough, a rear naked choke (yes Brock despite rumors to the contrary does have a neck) or ankle lock (see frank mir/brock's first fight) could be locked in by a guy who has beaten the best in the world. |
Well, every video seems to prove my point.
The guy wasnt hurt at all in terms of the shot. He was off balance, Fedor took him down and applied choked him into submission. He was clearheaded and at no point rocked by the punches, but he put him off balance enough to get a submission hold in. Im not knocking the guy, thats how youre supposed to fight in MMA, but seriously - how can anyone claim this guy has anything more than below average power as a puncher? |
Fedor's strength for all intents and purposes, in my opinion, is on the ground. He moves extremely fast and smart, has good sweeps, and stays out of trouble, while being able to utilize his ground and pound.
I don't see him controlling Brock on the ground. I also think that if Brock scores the take down, which is very likely noting Brock's pedigree and size advantage, he might be able to negate Fedor's strengths on the ground by laying on him. I agree Brock's chin is by and large unknown, but he has taken some decent shots between his fights with Randy and Frank, never really found himself to rocked or in a bad situation. |
Lesner has power, but he's a slow puncher... Fedor has to move out of range, and tie him up and clinch when they get close... sap the big mans strength and tee off on him in the later rounds
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Lesnar doesn't have the abilities or the experience to handle Fedor yet.
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it won't even get that far.. I was watching randy/lesnar and randy was pretty much controlling that fight barring the elbow and the 'almost out of reach' hook to the temple. I think randy would take him the next time. seriously. Fedor would probably let lesnar take him down, then just submit him. I doubt it'll go beyond the 2 minute mark in the 2nd round.
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Fedor has abilities suited to MMA... he is quick, obviously is a good wrestler, has an upright, slippery awkward style - he frustrates opponents into over committing and then goes for the submission hold. He isnt a boxer and couldnt outbox Audley Harrison to be honest - but I dont expect many boxers could out wrestle him.
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cuz boxing is the sweet science.
heh.. if boxing is the sweet science then MMA is the nuclear physics of sport. |
well, do you remember Henry Akinwande? He could outwrestle most professional wrestlers I reckon!!
I can admit that Fedor is good at what he does - but I dont think what he does is anything like the level of skill, courage, and bravery that boxing requires... but this isnt a thread for that discussion. I think the fact that a professional WWF wrestler (ie - a cross between an actor and a skilled stuntman) can be a contender in MMA says a lot. For the sake of your sport Fedor needs to win and win at a canter |
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Brock most certain has the abilities from sheer athleticism alone to fight anybody out there. Experience you can tell by his last fight with Mir he is coming along mightily in the mental aspect of the game. |
SF, please.. we don't need to get into the whole boxing vs MMA debate.. again.
Couture handled Lesnar quite nicely. In fact, I think it was a fluke that Lesnar even won that bout. Sure Lesnar has ability and is a huge man, but Fedor has beaten the best of the best.. cuz the way I've always seen it is Pride > UFC and now that Pride has dissolved, we should be able to see if that is true or not. Fedor is massive and has superior technical ability than Lesnar.. (yes so did Couture) I just don't see Lesnar winning.. Lesnar has already become a cocky SOB, and that doesn't always bode well for fighters in the octagon. |
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What the guy did in college sports isnt really very impressive to me.
I played for my university cricket team, but I dont think that means I can compare myself to any professional cricketer. Simply put Lesner comes from a background of taking part in a scripted entertainment show where actors act out pre-determined plots and pretend to fight. You may have to fit & athletic to do it well, so are stuntman in Hollywood movies, but WWF/WWE is not a sport. If, in a very few fights, this actor can dominate the sport of MMA in my opinion that gives the sport a big credibility issue. Something like Stallone being able to win a heavyweight title based on what he learned filming the movie Rocky. From what I have seen on Youtube, Lesner is a strong man with limited skill, very slow hands, and with one basic fight plan. Fedor is one of the few MMA fighters I have watched who seems to fight with a clear methodology, and go out there with a plan more complicated than covering himself in baby oil so that his opponent cant throw him or just piling forward and trying to outmuscle the other man... I expect him to dance and clinch alternately, chip away at him and frustrate him, stay out of any danger, and put away an exhausted Lesner somewhere around Round 8 A big man like Lesner probably has a prayer against anyone because he will hit hard (although as I said with very slow hands)... and you could always have one of those moments like Michael Moorer lunging accidentally straight into to a slow, mighty, George Foreman straight right - and its night night however good you are if a man with that kind of raw power lands flush.... whether its a clumsy fighter like Lesner or an old man like Big George. But I give Lesner a 1/100 chance unless Fedor looses control and tries to trade with the guy. The fact Fedor is something like 25-1 should demonstrate even though he doesnt have a perfect record he should be too clever for that. |
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Brock was still able to get Couture down on the mat and work him pretty much at will, plus he showed some very solid striking from the clinch throwing very nice knee's and elbow's. There was one point when Randy ate a knee, he shook it off and landed one shot, but that's about the most damage he did all fight. |
Lets look at what Lesner has done in his actual MMA career.
He has traded losses with Mir, a spoiler and top 30 fighter at best A victory over a professional opponent who's lost as much as he's won A victory over a 46 year old man who is a natural Light Heavyweight. Do you really feel it does the credibility of MMA any good at all that the Heavyweight Champion of the World is 3-1? The whole thing strikes me as a publicity stunt thats gone way too far |
Should be noted he's completely dominated every fight he's partaken in. Yes even that gift that Mazighatti gave Mir in Mir/Lesnar I.
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Wasn't mentioned how Frank or Randy were both ex-champs/interim champs at the time of the their fights. And Herring might not be championship material, but the guy has notched 30 some odds wins in his career and is no slouch.
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No he is 3-1
Loss - Mir Beat - Herring Beat - Coutre Beat - Mir The contest against the Korean circus act doesnt count towards his record, it was in a different sport. No more than a pro boxer can include results from his High School wrestling career in his record. |
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Not just a different organisation, it was a completely different shaped ring.
Ive actually watched the fight against the human sack of potato's who's only qualification to be in the ring was being 7 foot tall. Maybe you should check it out on youtube so that youre on an equal footing with me in terms of knowledge about it. Some websites might list it as a fight, but if you watch the video you can see it for yourself, it was not even in a cage. |
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Even if some people obstinately want to include the fight against the 7 foot guy, it doesnt make much difference, does it?
If the champion of your sport is a former actor, who tried and failed to make it as a pro footballer, who has won 4 fights (1 against a middle aged man who had his best days in a lower weight division, and 2 against journeymen) to become the holder of the greatest belt in MMA - doesnt it give the impression that its all a bit easy? |
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Of course, we havent even got to the steroid allegations about Lesner yet. I wonder if THAT was why he spent 4 years in WWF (where he wouldnt be tested for anything)?
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Yeah, he had to wait until he had the juice out of his system before he could play a real sport (with testing) - thats my guess.
Just look at the guys build - does it look natural to you? The key argument I have made, which hasnt been answered in my opinion (just quibbling things like is he 3-1 or 4-1) - is that for a guy to come into a sport, with no professional sporting background (whether he was good at something in college or not) and get a couple of wins against opponents who arent especially strong (a guy like Mir who is a top 20 fighter, a guy like Coutre who is a puffed up Light Heavy in his 40's who is best known for being beaten by Liddell) is now the havyweight world champion He hasnt served his dues, he hasnt earned his right to be at the peak of the sport... he simply walked into a title shot becaue he is a well known actor in a succesful franchise (World Wrestling Federation). He's a strong man, but he's slow, one handed, unfit - and any half decent fighter, even good awkward counter puncher like Fedor should take him to pieces. |
so.. MMA can only be performed in a cage?? huh. interesting.
This is turning into another boxing vs. MMA debate, and that is simply not going to happen in this thread. If you or anyone else wants to continue that debate then dig up the old thread and restart it. You can talk about Lesnar's career but let's leave the mma vs. boxing crap out of here. edit: I fail to see how anyone bringing up some alleged steroid use is going to bolster an argument between the sports or shame one. Two words: Mike Tyson. so now, go to the boxing vs. mma thread to continue that line of thought. I personally don't like Lesnar, but I don't think he's a publicity stunt, and even if it were a publicity stunt, please tell me which sport out there doesn't use publicity stunts to gain money. Please. |
Mate, youre asking me not to bring up Boxing vs MMA, and then talking about Mike Tyson one sentence later?
Im not talking about boxing at all, I am talking about Lesner lacking the credentials of a champion |
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if an amatuer wins the British Open, is he not a champion? if a man steps into a ring and takes the belt from someone as a virtual unknown.. is he not a champion? What does a champion resemble? What *makes* a champion? |
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my buddy was ranked #4 in the nation in wrestling.. so I can tell you from experience that it's no fucking joke. Wrestling skills can help a fighter immensely in this sport.. and a 106-5 record against division I opponents is unreal.
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To be a champion you need to earn the right to call yourself the best of the best.
I dont all winning 3 or 4 fights sufficient in that. Tennis and Golf are different sports. In a tournament its 1 against 128 or more... in MMA its 1 against 1. Lesner has beaten 2 contenders and 2 journeymen (and been beaten once himself). Does this give him the right to say he is at the pinnacle of his sport? Doe beating two serious fighters really give him the right to claim he is the best in the world? Come on! _ Lets talk about his fitness... I dont deny he is strong and I expect all his training is in strength. When has he gone 10 rounds, 12 rounds, even 6 rounds??? not once in his MMA career. This is a guy who has never win or lose gone past Round 3... that raises a huge concern for me, as does his weight and body mass. If Fedor just blocks and clinches and carries this guy I could see Lesner collapsing of exhaustion before the end of the fight, seriously. |
I don't think anyone is in here calling Lesnar the best of the best..not by any stretch.
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The heavyweight world champion is SUPPOSED to be the best in the world
Its a pretty clear statement that two serious fans of the sport dont agree and are happy to say "Lesner is just the heavyweight world champion, no one says he's the best in the world..." Its actually quite easy to understand why Lesner was a good athlete as a youth... I know a few people who had the same experience. He has always been big and strong, and as a 16, 17 year old he can use his strength to dominate bouts. Then when you get to senior sport, its a different story. Thats why he didnt become a pro, thats why he didnt make it as a footballer... instead he became an actor in WWF - my best guess (and I know he never failed a drug test in UFC) i that he juices up, gets bigger, gets a huge profile...he gets an offer from an emerging sport like MMA, manages to sneak past a couple of hand picked opponents and is given the belt... MMA gets a lot more publicity. And the first time Lesner fights a serious heavyweight fighter (like Fedor) he gets beaten up and the end of the stunt. Then and only then will you be able to tell what sort of fighter he is, and whether he has the heart of a warrior. |
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:lol: yes cricket is a sport.
this friend of mine..who is one of those people who never actively seeks anything worthwhile is one of my best friends.. we're almost like brothers.. and I'll put it to you this way, he entered into an amateur MMA contest that Serra was at, and Serra was impressed with him so much he offered to train him. So he went up to Serra's place and checked it out.. Serra wasn't pleased when my buddy tapped him out in the first round. So what does my friend do? He says.."thanks, but no thanks" and is working some lame job just floating about life. but anyway, back to the sort of topic here.. I think that proves, at least in my mind, that wrestling does play a huge part in a sport such as MMA. While my buddy is well versed in Muay Thai and BJJ as well, the wrestling components can do nothing but help especially in close ground tactics and abilities. Dismissing a 106-5 record against the best of the best in college sports is ridiculous and silly. |
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A man of that size is simply not capable of fighting 12 rounds hard.
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