Girlfriend advice needed (is she cheating?)
 

Side note: Hun, if you happen to stumble upon this post (she's been to the site once or twice...), please respect my privacy and treat this conversation as one I might be having with a friend of mine.
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Where am I to start? There really is no solid answer to my questions, however I would love to hear some opinions on the what my actions should be in this situation. Here's a nutshell of what's going on:

-Both of us are 22 years old.
-I'm a senior in college, she's got a bunch of different jobs, but she's mainly modeling and trying hard to get her acting career flowin.
-We've been dating for over two years.
-I've had plenty of serious relationships (IE learned quite a few good lessons) prior to this and I'd say she has a little less experience, if that doesn't sound rude to say...
-We usually spend lots of time together. Weekday/weekend evenings, post/prior school/work hours. We really enjoy eachother's company.
-We are both quite sentimental in general.

So here's where the problem lies. All the sudden last week she started hanging out with her girlfriends instead of me during the week and has been frequenting the local college bars with them, insisiting she needs some past-due girl time. I'm ok with this as I feel it's good to stress the individual development within relationships, however this is coming hand in hand with another more serious problem. Starting this past week as well, she's said she is going to need some space from me. I immediately got into protect-myself defensive mode and asked her if she's cheating on me etc. These weren't meant to be accusations, rather the kind of thing where I just want to know the facts as I'm very into honesty. I expected her to say no, I appreciate the space you've given me, but you have nothing to worry about. Instead, she got rather defensive as if I had picked the wrong nerve. For the first few days she really didn't want to talk with me as she says she's going through a lot right now with her profession finally kicking off but in a somewhat chaotic way. I've gotten out of her that she says she needs personal space where she's not with me every time she has spare time, but in reality when I've asked her to come over she says things like "didn't we go over this? I need space."

Of how much I try to be the caring and understanding guy, I've been through this before in a relationship where the girl wanted something else besides me but didn't want to let me go. Therefore I was a sucker and wound up being her emotional crutch for a few drawn out months that I despise even thinking about. I explained this all to her and *specifically stressed* that I really love her as an individual and will do whatever necessary to let her develop but that she needs to be honest with me and let me know if she's having lifestyle-change desires in that she wants to meet new guys and such. I basically said I'll stick around and give you your space and that's hard as hell for me to do, but if so, you need to be extremely honest with me. If that's going to be a problem, let me know now because I'd rather take a more serious split than be an emotional backbone without anything in direct return for the time being only to find out she takes advantage of it and such...

Here's another spin, and probably the most important. I feel that she has been seeing guys during these nights out. Maybe not meeting up, but definitely "on the prowl." Maybe it's not her specifically, but her friends aren't out to just be together four nights in a row of solid bar/club all-nighters. Here I am sitting alone at home. We had a good talk this evening but she didn't think it would be good to come over tonight as she needs her time. Usually she'd be here but instead she's at her apartment doing her thing. I understand people needing space, but I haven't seen her in almost a week (I was on vacation this weekend) and I'm wondering if she has a guy over this evening or what. People might need their individual time, but what's the deal with this being the case the past three evenings I've talked about hanging out?

So how do you guys feel about this? Am I being suckered into something here? I've had the physical discomfort you get when you find out/assume your girlfriend is cheating on you that makes you want to blast through a wall like The Hulk. I've been very honest with this girl and very clear with my intentions (To stay but bounce the second she thinks she might want something else). I'm thinking that of course she'll tell me if things change, but will she? Do you think we'll already be so distant that honoring my "demands" won't be a priority anymore, even though we're madly inlove with eachother in general?

Keep in mind that she's a very moral-driven girl. She's all about fundamentals and treating people how they should be treated, but she's already become so strangely distant that if she did stab my back it might not mean as much as if she did it during a normal phase of our relationship.

Thanks a ton if you've made it this far. I hope I sound rational, I've tried to be with her. Don't get me wrong though, as I type this I'm extremely emotional and am getting usual relationship symptoms like somewhat of a trouble sleeping/eating/ and definitely getting my mind off of her.

I appreciate any insight ;)
-T

Sounds like if she hasn't been with another man yet, she soon will be. Needing space, going to bars with the girls, being defensive when asked about cheating - these are sure signs that she is preparing you for a dumping. I hope I am wrong but... sorry, bro.

Well, SOMETHING happened to her that had her changing habits so radically. You have a lot of fear that it's another guy. I think it could be other things, but I don't know the situation other than what you've laid out.

Is it possible she thought to herself about marriage between you two and spooked herself? Or is confused about the direction she's taking in life, and how you fit into that? Maybe there's something that happened to one of her friends that affected her as well.

Anyways, not to be a downer, but the conversation you had with her about cheating makes a strong case for something going on with another guy. Why would she hedge the question if nothing was happening? lol i'm as confused as you are about the situation you're looking at mate. Your SO is acting really strange. Best of luck.

Thanks for the responses so far guys.

Skiier, the marriage question you asked is interesting. Her sister was recently proposed to and I told her that I wasn't going to make the New Year's Day (Jan-1) wedding because it was an odd choice and way too short of notice. The fact that I said I didn't think I would go has definitely been an important thing on her mind, along the lines of "I guess I assumed we were on a different level" type of comments. I think that's kind of BS though because of the situation. I do plenty of things for her as far as giving time to support her, her family life, her pretty strong Christian background, etc.

Um, the wedding's way over a month away...I don't think that's too short of notice.

I'd bet that's what's got your girl "on the prowl" so to speak.

Have you thought about REALLY talking to her? That would solve a lot of your problems. If she isn't willing to chat--tell her it's either talk about it, or split. Communication is key--if you can't do it, you shouldn't be in a relationship (that goes for both of you).

While I generally loathe any notions of "ultimatums", even in communication, you can still very emphatically stress that without communication, the relationship will essentially end itself (not "tell me x, or i break up with you"-style). I very strongly agree with "if you can't communicate, you shouldn't be in a relationship."

It sounds like you've done a lot on your end to be understanding, helpful, and communicative, but aren't getting much more than "I need space" on the other side. The question is- if this started suddenly, then it means soemthing changed. It doesn't turn on like a light switch over doubts or a sluggish relationship. You probably have one of the two:

1. She met a guy, is seeing him when she can but keeping you on the back-burner in case she finds she still wants you, or until she moves on (sounds like you've done this one before).

2. You saying you wouldn't attend the wedding sends SERIOUS "this relationship isn't important to me" signals. You said that she said, ""I guess I assumed we were on a different level", which very strongly points towards this possibility.

Doing things, support, etc., have nothing whatsoever to do with the emotional plane on which your relationship sits. You could do jack shit and be married and madly in love for all time, or you could do everything humanly possible to please her and never get past "puppy love", never really reach the higher levels of relationship closeness.

If it were me, i'd bank on #2, and quickly remedy this wedding thing. Family is most definitely important to her, if she's making this kind of deal over it, and saying you don't want to be involved is most likely a bit (if not "very") off-putting. If she's prowling, it might just be because she thinks she's stuck with a guy who isn't looking forward like she is.

Priority 1? Make arrangements so you can attend the wedding, then call her and tell her you managed to work it out so you can go. Tell her you're sorry, and that she means too much to you for you to miss something so important in her life. Hope she invites you over, or at least starts to get rid of the "space" she needs. If that doesn't solve it, you may be looking at cheating/prowling-related-etc.

Note: Just to add... i'm a very relationship-oriented guy, and if after 2 whole years of dating, my girl shrugged off attending some important family event like a wedding or similar, I would also question her intentions for the future. Two years should be long enough to know if you're in it for more than just hanging out and sex, to know if you're still there and looking forward to a longer-lasting bond.

First the why's of this, the reason behind her behaviour. And I believe you've already given enough clues to figure this part out:

The sum of all those facts is that your relationship is soon reaching the settling down stage. You're soon out of school, she's searching to anchor her career, and you've been together long enough now to where its probably time to dig down or bail out -- something that all too often takes place in transitional periods, like graduations, job relocations, etc.

This impending "settingly down phase" has different effects on people, and a frequent one is what your girl seems to be showing. Fear of committment, second thoughts, whatever...she may need time away to decide if the relationship is worth it.

Girls night out can be her way of testing the water, reassessing her value on the market. Could also be her way of getting friends input on her life decisions from her girlfriends in a relaxed setting, while "checking out cute butts".

What to do about it? I'd give her that time away, and use it to hang out with your buddies and focus on your own needs. Work on your social network again, something you've probably lost track of if you've been up each others butts the last two years. But DONT make a huge deal out of her space needs, because it will only have the opposite effect from what you're trying to accomplish.

With any luck, she'll find her way back to you after she's thought things through. And if it doesnt you'll be able to fall back on that social network you've already started working on.

You know, I really see myself in you, -Ever-. The minute things are a little off in my relationship, I go straight to sexual jealousy. It's silly, because it wouldn't make the tiniest bit of sense in our (fairly unique) relationship for her to "cheat on me". But that's always the first place I go.

Did she say there's another guy? Did she say she's done with you or going to use you as an "emotional crutch", whatever that means? No. She's said:
<ul><li>She's stressed about her career.</li><li>She wants time with her girl friends</li><li>She wants space from you.</li></ul>
There are lots of things you can conclude from that, but notice that all the stuff about "other guys" has happened in your head. There's no evidence out there in REALITY to support that conclusion.

I'm also not saying that's NOT happening. What I'm saying is, you've got yourself crazy here because you're making up Reasons for Why This is Happening. That's always a losing game, in terms of your own sanity. You have no idea why this is happening, really. None whatsoever. And aren't you a little interested in finding out what's really going on?

The way we human beings work is, something happens to us (Girl X cheats on us), we come to a conclusion about the Way Things Are ("You just can't trust women, they'll cheat and use you."), and then we bring that conclusion to every relationship for ever more (You're on the lookout for Girl Y to cheat on you). You'll see that conclusion everywhere, even when it's not there. That's the past, of course, and it's long over, unless your mind latchs onto it and imposes it on the present and future.

Again I'm not saying I know what she's up to. I'm just saying that what you posted and what you're dealing with here isn't in any way her fault (or yours, really)--it's just the feverish churning of a worked-up imagination. It doesn't have anything to do with objective, real reality. I suspect you already know that, on some level.

All that said (whew) I'll join the communication bandwagon. Thing is, you can't demand communication from her. That never works. You've got to be in communication with her first--let her know about how bad your mind is working overtime here, and what that's like for you. Not like blaming her or dumping it on her, but being responsible for where you've gone with this. You watch, your honesty will draw out her honesty.

hmm, see I'm just not sure "the talk" is the right thing here, cause it will probably have the same effect as cornering her and pressuring out things she's uncertain about. What you'll get is more of this:

You'll pressure (in a sweet and caring concerned boyfriend way) some response out of her, and end up winning the battle but loosing the war. That's my experience, but I'm not you and she's not my girl.

I'll hold to my advice of giving her space and being cool about it.

You may well be right.

For sure, -Ever-, you need to develop some peace within yourself about this thing. Any hint of needyness on your part will certainly drive the wedge in further.

You guys never do fail me. I have so much to say to each of your brilliant and honest responses but that would take just forever.

Basically I was wondering if I was being a sucker by giving her space. Let me say that I have been able to get past the communication problems and we have had a good talk or two since without her "feeling cornered." I am an extremely honest guy and really just don't want her to take advantage of it. I'm fine with giving her room (even though that's a whole different story on how I get over the emotional parts of that alone, I just don't want to be taken advantage of.

Maybe the best combination of things to do is give her the space she wants and try extra hard on my friendly social activities to keep my mind off it. The only fear is that I don't give her enough attention and she starts moving in a different direction seeing that the space she has been given has become pretty large and maybe we never had anything much in the first place... Such a funky situation here. Man I need to get my mind off it.

I just don't like things that seem "right" (the relationship) to not work because of reasons that could have been fixed, so in other words I dread regrets. Like I wouldn't want this to not work out because I did what was kind (give her more room) and have that ironically be the thing that lets her think that getting back together with me might not be as important as previously thought.

Looks like this is going to be a somewhat constant struggle day by day with new things popping up here and there, but I'll try my best to do what you guys have said which I do agree with. There's just times when I hear faint uneasiness in her speech when she describes her plans, as if she's telling white lies an trying not to hurt me...This could easily be my imagination but I'm really trying to put emotion aside here and think of what is really going on :confused: :(

Any more thoughts would be much appreciated, even if just a comment here and there.

I don't assume to know what shes doing or have some unique insight into the female psyche. What I think you should do, and maybe the best thing for your relationship is to not sit on your laurels. Go out, get 'on the prowl' yourself. She needs some space? Use the time to get some space yourself. My favorite year of college was senior year. Renew old friendships and have a club night yourself. Don't go to where she is, go somewhere new. Don't call her obsessivly.

*NOTE* before doing this be clear to her that while you are 'giving her space' you expect that she is not cheating on you or betraying your trust at all. Be very clear about what you mean and when you go out stick to what you said.

But

Go out, have a great time. Don't go out looking for anything but a good time. You'll have a good time. THe hardest thing will be to not think about her being out too but once you get over that you'll have a great time. DO NOT SIT AROUND while she is having a good time.

I totally agree with ruggerp11.

Use it as an opportunity to enjoy the space around you.

If I had to bet, I would say that there is another guy in the picture. Having said that, if you want to give her space (opportunity), then feel free. Be very clear on your expectations regarding acceptable and unacceptable behavior.

This wedding thing is really confusing. It sounds like you are ditching your girl of two years at her sister's wedding so you can party on New Year's Eve?!?! I think I would question my future with you, as well. Talk about regrets: "I lost the girl of my dreams because her sister's wedding interfered with my party schedule."

I don't know the best approach at recovering from the damage this undoubtedly caused, but I think I would begin to focus more on conveying your intentions for your future with her.

I really do wish you the best of luck. This is a tough one.

Why aren't you going to the wedding? With my own bias in mind, I'd have to guess that this was the catalyst...

Having been in a similar situation... we were dating throughout college, college was ending, and I was freaking, knowing that if we stayed together at this point, it was pretty much a red carpet walk to marriage, and I wasn't sure if I was ready for all of that. He was, but wasn't... he was on the fence. But we spent our time similarly - together, calling, mushy, etc. Much like now, actually. :D

So if this is a similar situation to ours, and it sounds like it is... I think that if she's not getting it on, she's considering it.

What should you do? Take the long view. Seriously. Do you love her? If so...

Go to the wedding. Next time you talk for more than 2 minutes, bring it up, admit to being a dolt, and tell her you'll go.

Give her all that space. Be happy to hear from her, loving, but let her call you. DO NOT PRESSURE HER, DO NOT GIVE LIMITS OR ULTIMATUMS. Pressure will just make her run. As stereotypical as it is... women (okay, and men too) often want what they want until they get it. Quadro gave me space, and I didn't like it. I wanted him back. I wanted to call him and tell him what happened that day, or ask what he thought... I missed him. Basically, it's like that bad insult joke... Go away so she can miss you. But make sure she knows you love her. Keep communicating.

And if she does cheat, and she tells you in the "cleaning the slate so we can move on together sort of way"... please, don't write her off. This is one of the most emotional, scary, pressure-filled times of your/her whole life. There is a LOT of shit going on. A mistake in judgement now does not mean anything about how she'll treat the rest of your lives together. The experience may even illustrate more clearly to her why you're so wonderful. Trust me.

If it matters, I too was a budding actress getting out of school. And remember also that 22 is younger than you think. There are still a lot of lessons to be learned.

Good luck, keep us updated.

Awesome advice guys. It's really amazing to hear all the different perspectives on things and to see which seem to be universally true among most of you.

I worked out with a great friend lastnight and had a good long talk. I really do have a few good guy friends that have always been there for eachother through thick and thin, I love my buds.

Anyhow, I'm wondering when I should bring up the wedding. I actually already told her a few days back that I had been giving it some thought and she was pretty pleased but also said that she'd almost rather me not go because she didn't want to feel like she pressured it. I think that's a safe worry for her to have so I'm wondering how I can prove that I actually would like to go and would like to consider us on the level she once thought. And assuming that goes well, I'm wondering when and how I can ask when we can start hanging out more... Any thoughts?

Thanks again guys, you are all very kind.

Hey JustJess, I'm not quite sure what you mean by her "getting it on."
You mean like getting it on as in hooking up with other people? And if so, you said it's similar to your situation. What was it that was driving you to go meet other people? The desire to experience new people, or was it some type of revenge even? It sounds important though so an explanation would be awesome if you get see this. ;)

Also, did you and the guy wind up working things out? How are things now?

the sister of a woman you've been with for two years is getting married in basically 2 months and you're NOT attending the wedding? I'm sorry, this is gonna come out really bad, but I think that just stinks horribly and if I were your girl I'd be HIGHLY pissed off at you for it. How could you NOT be going to her own sisters wedding? (and its not short notice....6 weeks notification is about the norm on a wedding date and you got more than that)

I guess I left it out of my original post. Before I made this thread I did indeed tell explain to her that I gave the wedding lots of thought while on vacation this weekend and realized that I had made a poor choice to say I wouldn't attend. She took this somewhat indifferent as she felt she pressured me into it but I don't feel that way. Now I'm just wondering how to bring it back up again, as my above post says.

Just be honest, and maybe a little persistent. She's stonewalling you because she's probably still pissed at you. Make it very clear to her that you intend to escort her to her sister's wedding, of your own free will.


Oh, and buy her some flowers.




The sooner the better.

Think I should just call her and ask for her to meet me for lunch where we can talk? I feel like I should tell her in person because there's also the chance that there's stuff beyond the wedding going on..

<b>Ever</b>

Had she not reacted this way, would you still suddenly "want" to go to the wedding? I would imagine your answer is "Hell no! Who wants to go to a crummy, old wedding when there's 6 keggers at 5 Points New Year's night!" Fact is, you aren't going to pull one over on her regarding the wedding. Her outburst and subsequent cold shoulder has been highly effective at getting you to do what she wants. Your sudden change of heart regarding the pending nuptuals have not gone unnoticed, but things aren't suddenly going to be perfect - now that you manned-up to the wedding thing. She knows (no matter what you say) that it was her behavior that prompted the change of heart. So, you aren't going to get much credit for this move, just yet.

Getting your credit is a timing issue. If you said you were willing to go to the wedding, leave it at that. Don't say it again until your day-to-day routines return to the usual. Then, one Friday night, rent Casablanca and get a bottle of wine. Great couch, great wine, great movie, great girl, great life. Bogie is standing on the tarmac as Ingrid flies off. You turn and say, "You know, I'm really looking forward to flying with you to the wedding. I always like talking about rabbit hunting with your Uncle Jed." Here's looking at you...getting your freak on all over that poor couch. Okay, so maybe I'm just making this shit up as I go along.

Edit: ^^^ That would work in a pinch!

In talking about it, I'd chalk up the wedding thing to a misunderstanding - you didn't understand that it was so important to her, so if it's important to her, it's important to you. That's not being pressured. :) Lunch would be a great time to talk about it, it's a pretty neutral zone. Comments on how you're looking forward to seeing her all dressed up wouldn't go amiss either.

As for the looking... it wasn't so much looking for a replacement, as it was reassurance that I still had "it", should I need to have "it", ah, insecurity. Also, I think there was a lot of subconscious need to sort of check and compare my feelings - sure, I love Quadro, but do I love him because I haven't been with anyone else in 4 years?? And I found that I did and do love him because he's him, not because I couldn't get anyone else. We've been together almost 9 years now, and last week was 1 year of being married! Not to say that all things work out so neatly, but they can and do happen that way sometimes.

I think the whole issue for me on the wedding thing is...(putting myself in her place for a minute) is why in the hell should I have to tell the person that's been my S/O for over two years (I could see it if it were less than a year) that my SISTER's, not my cousin, not a friend, but my SISTER's wedding is important? If I were her I'd seriously be rethinking having someone in my life that had to be TOLD that and I could honestly say that not much could be said or done to fix it.

Maybe Im still upset over my own wedding and thats clouding my judgement at the moment...but my sister, who was OFFCIATING part of the wedding didnt come because her husband had had surgery 3 days before and wanted her to stay at home with him, I have totally lost any respect I had for that man, and I am pretty sure I'd have no respect for ANY guy that had to be TOLD that a siblings wedding was important.

Thanks again for the replies guys.

I'm wondering if confronting her about this might contribute any to any pressure. I was thinking the longer I waited the better, but Tooth mentioned the sooner the better and that got me a little curious and worried. Any opinions on how long I should wait? Of course there's no sure shot answer, but some guesses might be nice.

By the way you've got a PM JustJess. ;)

Shani, sorry to hear there were complications. Not that it *really* matters, but was his surgery planned?

-Ever-

Another approach would be this: Reach out to her, ask her to dinner and a movie - a proper date. If she says something about "space", then respond, "Is all of this just punishment for the misunderstanding regarding your sister's wedding? Because I already apologized for that and told you that I want to go." That way, you force her to take a stand on her motivations for changing your relationship and you get to reiterate your intentions to attend the wedding.

/not really meaning to hijack ever's thread lol

yes they planned the surgery, they decided 2 weeks before the wedding to do it, when she agreed in MARCH to officiate, the day AFTER I printed all the wedding programs. There was no reason IMO she couldnt attend, hell she didnt even go to the hospital to be there while he was having the surgery.

/end hijack

-Ever-: Don't underestimate the difference the phrase "I was a jerk" can make.

Shani: That explains that. As a guest, I have to admit, I wondered a bit when Laura announced the lineup change, but it certainly didn't ruin things for me. But I completely get it would be pretty damn disappointing for you to not have your sister there.

I have been going through this thread, and there have been three coherent suggestions made that I feel are key to the survival of your relationship. 1. Stress the need for clear, non-combative communication when she's ready for it, but stress also that her time table should be reasonable, as to when you can start talking.
2. Accept her need for space without making a fuss over it, because if you make too big a deal out of it, it will have the opposite effect.3. Go to the wedding, and apologize that you didn't find ascheduling solution sooner, telling her that if it's important to her, it's important to you.
If you can accomplish all of these things, you have a strong chance of surviving this hick-up in your relationship, if you are unable or willing or she is, then the relationship should end either way.
Best of luck, please let us know how it all turns out.
p.s. don't wait too long to tell her these things, give her a little space and then say, we need to talk every bit as much as you need space, so how about we meet in the middle?

I just think letting this lie for a while, only lets it fester for her.

I've scheduled lunch with her after her morning job this afternoon. She knows I want to talk about the wedding in general.

I really don't want to sound like I'm begging for her to come back to me. I want to try to stress that since our separation I've given us a lot of thought and realized that I do consider her to be very special to me and that I now understand what I probably put her through by making a selfish, defensive decision about the wedding a few weeks back. I just know that she said the wedding isn't everything and that the rest of "what's going on" is unexplainable, so hopefully she's been honest and my apologies will address these unknown emotions. I just hope she indeed has been honest. If not and if she has been having desires to see other people, I expect to somewhat crash and burn when we talk as she might just push me away..

Either way I'm going into it pretty headstrong. Do you suggest we do it over lunch, or should I take her to the beach, or for a walk...? :) Any suggestions on what *not* to say as to not sound desperate?

Thanks again friends.

Do your best to keep your cool honey. Just be open, honest and patient and see where that takes you.....
Good Luck!

Several things... Having been married now for 12 years, and been through the situation you are going through several times both prior to marriage and while married: give her space, love her unconditionally, and make her feel like she's a queen (gifts, back rubs, etc). Don't apply pressure - except to initiate/enjoy deep conversation. Applying any pressure will ONLY blow up in your face.

And if she's looking elsewhere (screwing around), there's really nothing you can do. Just pray to God you find out about it, and either work it out together ASAP, or move on before you are used too long as a cruch/last resort.

Unconditional love is an extremely difficult thing.

One thing I notice in the thread is most of the guys have assumed she's cheating on you - I've done the same thing with previous GFs and with my wife. Part of my problem with not questioning what's going on when my wife's behavior changes has been that several of these times, my SO has been cheating on me, and thus my irrational fear that whenever anything changes in our relationship, something is going on.

Not many answers here, but just an understanding of the situation. Deep emotional relationships are NOT an easy thing, and take tons of work, love, and forgiveness.

Good luck!

In situations like this, the worst explanation is probably the right one.

If your girlfriend came up and asked you if you were cheating on her, knowing that you never have and you never would, what your response be? Would you get pissed and get defensive and fly off the handle? Or would you shake your head and calmly tell her the truth? In most cases, for men and women, they only get angry when there is something to hide.

Good advice. This way, even if the whole thing does go to shit, at least you went out with dignity and the "high road." Go as deep as you can with the conversation, and see how she responds. You can only control your own reactions, in the end.

You guys are all too caring, I wish my girlfiend was like you right now :p

So I just got back from lunch with her. I basically described to her again my take on realizing the importance of the wedding and that my initial reactions were only out of defense. (In the past I've really been whipped in relationships and I really was just trying to protect myself when the whole wedding thing came up..) I explained that this situation has helped me think about where I'm trying to go in life, with or without her, and that after much thought, she *does* hold a dear spot in it. I explained that it was after coming to realize how much she really meant to me that I realized how much I probably hurt her when I was indecisive about the wedding and said sorry for putting her through that and that I now understand how much I hurt her.

She took it rather well, saying things like she truely appreciates it and such. It gets messier though. After lunch I un-pressure-ly asked what she thought about me planning on going to the wedding with her and she got funky, which is somewhat expected. She said (like someone here said to expect) that she can't snap out of it and that she's pretty far past excepting that I said no. I understand this too but didn't know how to stress how bad I felt and how much I wanted to fix things, especially since I really haven't done anything like this in the past. Thoughts of her having secondary plans ran through my mind.

The worst part was when we were driving afterwards and I asked if she still considers me her boyfriend. I know, I know, pressure rings out, but I'm glad I asked it because some pretty interesting feelings came out. She said she's confused about "labels" right now, and to me it sounded like an excuse for not wanting responsibility with me. Again, I try to understand this as being typical with someone who wants space, but it leaves me to ask...then what exactly am I to this girl right now? Just a dude?

In conclusion I guess that's the role I'm going to need to assume as of now. I've spoken my feelings, said what I needed to say as to not have regrets, and put the ball in her court. She kissed me on the lips a few times and such but who knows. I really hope the honest, kind girl I once knew is still within her. Even if it doesn't mean getting back together with me, I just hope she's honest with herself and with me.


Thanks again if you've made it this far guys. You will never understand how much you've helped.

Any advice, comments, criticism, etc is welcome

Wow, a lot of drama there for one read :lol:

It sounds like to me you are on your way to a break up. What stood out to me was:
1. Away time
2. Not seeing each other for a week
3. I got the feeling that she really didn't want to talk to you on the phone (an assumption and may be wrong)
4. She doesn't want to label you.
5. Going club hopping, a lot

You both are 22 which is still young. Many changes take place between 18 and 30. I don't see this relationship enduring those changes. Communication is broke, trust is lost, and insecurities are high.
I hate to be a downer, but to play off a book title...I don't think she's that into you anymore :(
However, I'm not getting all the information and I'm not there to see expressions and gestures. I wish you the best of luck and if you want her back you can fight for her, but there needs to be a lot of mending.

ever, I'm going to refer you back to this thread. Two months ago you were thinking about taking a break from your girlfriend. I obviously don't know what actually happened in the time between, but my guess is that situation has been festering...two months later, she asks you to her sister's wedding, and BLAM BLAM BLOOEY! I don't mean to sound accusing in any way...I'm just saying it sounds to me like this has been on the mount for a while...regardless, best of luck.

meh, I will post again to stress the advice I gave before. Use this time for yourself too. You're going to end up stifiling her. The best thing you can do is go out.

Yeah thanks again guys. I've had my spirits raised as much as they could be this evening. I hit bottom when I called my mom and broke down pretty hard, I think it's been saving up for a bit now. Then a good friend called, then my dad, then another good friend. It's funny how everybody basically says the same generic truths but in so many different, very important ways.

All in all I'm looking forward to going out this weekend and trying to keep my mind off things. Thanks again guys, you really are very, very kind.

Man I'm upset with myself. I moved from home for the first time to San Diego to be with this girl. I didn't want to do it just for her so I finished up junior college here and got into a nice private school, but I'm realizing that my *entire* enviornment is one big reminder of her. My apartment, my furniture, my activities, my friends, the freeways, the city itself.. I'm quite disappointed that I lined myself up for that. Having such a comfortable relationship kept me from going out and meeting new people as much as I would have if single. So here I am now with virtually only a few friends, living alone in a studio, while she's off working and playing around with her roomates.

Not trying to be pessamistic, I'm just upset that I did that. I'm quite a sucker for pleasure I think. And I know I should be doing exactly what she's doing, but it's a bumpy road to start from scratch. I think I'ma make a roadtrip with a friend to Arizona this weekend to attend a friend's fashion party. God I need a change. The thoughts that slammed my mind the second I awoke this morning were really damaging to my spirit.

YES!!!

Seriousally, give her her space, go out and meet other girls.

Do this:

1. Don't call her for a few days.
2. When she calls to see why, simply tell her you've been busy.Don't tell her doing what. Be vague.
3. Watch her to a 180.

Don't be the dog that's always humping legs.

My opinion? Don't be. I know its hard where you're probably at, but remember that taking risks is part of the game. To me it really sounds like y'all may have been growing apart for a little while...sometimes, a little time apart is what you need to clear the air. Sometimes you find that you really are ready to move on. Regardless, you'll find out. Try not to be too hard on yourself. What will be will be, and really it's the only it could have been.

I like this advice. Also, in my years of observing relationships, an occasional night out with the girls is no big deal. A REGULAR night out at bars with "the girls" has always been a death knell. That's my prediction, and I'll stand by it.

Quit calling, and make a new life for yourself. Even if her behavior was caused by your mistake about the wedding, just visualize what married life would be like with her. Soon EVERY mistake you make will be met with pouting, nights out with the girls, etc. Maybe the silent treatment, but once my wife figured out that I enjoy that, she took it out of her repertoire. :D

San Diego is FULL of attractive women. Find one that you love, and live happily ever after.

Thanks again for the help guys. Every day has been a crusade in its own but life has been getting along alright so far. I've got awesome friends supporting me and just had a great sporadic weekend trip to Arizona on a past-due trip to see some buds.

You're all very kind. It definitely goes appreciated.

It's been two weeks. We need an update! :hmm:

Thanks for showing interest Marvelous Marv.

There really isn't a ton to update I guess. I'm basically pretty sure she's been loyal to me as far as not seeing other people which is nice. We're basically broken up though the way I look at it. While she doesn't like "labels" right now, we hung out for the first time this weekend in about a month and most of it wasn't even together. I still love her to death and am still in love with her, but I really can't do anything about it so it's a crap situation.

I think she's just basically over me for the time being. One nice thing (in a not-so-nice kind of way) is that I've given 110% during this whole situation from constantly offering to hang out, to being in good contact, to being the one to start most about-us, how-we're-doing conversations. See, I hate regrets and didn't want to walk away from this situation knowing that I could maybe have done more to fix it even though it's at risk of getting me even more hurt. I've decided that she's well worth this risk though and I'm now at a type of ease knowing that I did all I could to make things right. The hard part is that I feel like I'm so close from getting her back. I do know that she still loves me and that she enjoys who I am, but I feel like she's purposely denying her impulses of wanting to be with me for the wrong reasons. I fear that she feels she's the victim of something that I really haven't done to her and have tried so hard to prove that I'm still the man she used to be in love with. She still smiles at me the same, hugs me the same, and laughs with me the same, but there's just something there that seems to be purposely blocking me out. Man I love the girl and kills me to feel that she's so close but unnesecessairly so far... :\

Well that's that. Of course there's probably things I'm leaving out, but that's how I feel right about now. Things are quite bitter sweet as I'm moving on and getting over the regular depression and onto the reality of things.

I've read the entire thread, and to be quite frank, you're in for some rough times, but you'll be fine. Emotions arent as easy as a flip of the switch and it seems your affections for this girl aren't burning out anytime soon.

I do commend your will to avoid 'what if's' And I guess in the end, all that matters is that you tried your ass off to make it work, and her lack of reciprocation (if any) is nothing you can blame yourself for. You might've made a mistake with the whole wedding thing, but if you tried your damndest to make the best of that situation and to correct it, what else could you have done, really?

Head up...you aren't alone, trust me.

In my experience, if you have a suspicion that your girl might be cheating, it's probably true and probably worse than you might originally suspect. Yes, and it hurts like hell.

Walk away man. It's over already... make it official. It's just dragging now, and you shouldn't get back together with her now even if she wanted to, which she doesn't. If she did, this crap would have stopped by now. The relationship (according to the other thread) wasn't going hot anyways. Chalk it up to lessons learned... and next time a gf of 2 years wants you to go to the wedding, have a better excuse if you don't want to go.

Amen. Walk away - you know it's the right thing to do.
Don't wait for the courage to end it - just do it.

Remember: Courage doesn't make you do the right thing. It's doing the right thing that gives you courage ....

Hey guys. Just a new update since you've proven that you actually care :')

Went to Disneyland with her, her friend, and her friend's boyfriend this weekend. I didn't think it was right to go but I said F-it and chose to. Wound up having a good time all in all. On the drive back I decided to ask how she felt about completely breaking off for a while instead of lingering here at 50%. My main reason is that if we linger here too long, we eventually won't want to get back together because we'll be so used to this half-way relationship that we might assume that's how it has always been- cold, uneventful, boring.. I said that if we do want to get back together sometime, it should be a full 100% recreated relationship, re-falling back in love, and the only way this could happen is by completely separating and either realizing we do indeed need/want eachother or we do indeed want to move on.

Other reasons include me constantly wondering what she's doing at night and in the future her probably wondering the same thing for me. We aren't together, but we aren't broken up, but where is the line drawn? She still introduces me as her boyfriend but I can't ask what exactly she's been doing the past three evenings and with who (in a non-pestering kind of way). This drives me nuts and I just can't deal with it. I'd just assume bite the bullet and break off and when I wonder what she's doing, I can sanely remind myself that it's none of my damn business instead of having wild thoughts run through my mind for this 50% girlfriend of mine. Lol, I know, we've gotten ourselves in quite the rut.

I also brought up that I'm going to be going through quite a lot of changes myself the next few months. This 'situation' has really inspired me to re-prioritize my schooling, arts, and friends, and I have a lot of mini-goals set up that will be introducing me to somwhat new lifestyles and new people. I wasn't saying this in any kind of threatening way. Instead, I was just addressing my side of the story and wanted to make sure she knew that there's a decent chance I might be somewhat different, for good or bad in relation to her, if she indeed does want to get back together in the future.

So anyhow, our talk was cut short when we arrived at home and her needing to attend "stuff" for the evening, although we decided to continue our talk later. I think we both know what is next though. I'm preparing myself for a full on ceassation of communication and reliance between the two of us. Of course I'll treat her like a friend if she needs me, but if she needs a ride, call someone else. I need a vent, I'll call someone else. When she's lonely, don't call me. This is what life is like without eachother and do we like it or not...?

So how do you guys feel about this? I've kind of explained ourselves in a nutshell here so I might have left a few important things out. I think I feel pretty good about this. It's of course the bitter-er of the two roads as lingering at 50% at least gives us tastes of eachother here and there and cutting off is harsher up front, but optimistically speaking, it can be a good test of faith I guess. I just fear that walking away might make us think that we don't care for eachother as much as we really do, but I guess that's the whole 'test' part of it...

Thanks to the moon and back for the support and raw, unaltered advice. I really do appreciate it.

-T

Sorry to say, but you are right. The relationship is over. She seems to have no interest in making you a priority of any sort in her life.

Did she have any response to the things you talked about during your drive? You seem to have laid it all on the table, and she took of to do "stuff" without giving anything back? It's over.

Thanks for pointing that out Tooth, I actually forgot to mention that part and it's definitely important as you've said.

She was actually quite interested in what I had to say. She hadn't understood the potential downfall of our relationship simply due to how we're running it right now and though it was a interesting idea to look into. She said that she didn't want to completely break off but this is because she obviously likes having me around but is just confused, so I had to remind her that it's those feelings that we would need to cut off. She also said how good of a time she had this weekend with me and how happy she was that she asked me to come. Furthermore, she seemed quite charmed when she finally left my apartment, as in hugging me deeply yet again and smiling at me the way she used to. It felt great but it could have simply been from her excitement that I'm letting her move on. Lol, I'm such a pessamist sometimes ;)

I think she is indeed still in love with me but just needs to experience some new things for a while. If anything, I think her smiles and hugs when she left were in reflection to her again understanding not only how much I care for her but also for her understanding how mature and open I've been with everything and reflecting that she admires the qualities. This is why I think the talk was a good one. It makes me feel a little more comfortable breaking things off knowing that she at least doesn't think that I'm bailing out on her..

And of course these things are easier said and done, but I'm hoping that they should be at least a little easier with a good foundation and understanding between the two of us...right? I've also mentioned a few times the idea of us getting back together. This is mainly the pro-relationship optimist in me. If we do decide to split, I'm hoping to do so knowing that the future is indeed unknown and that there's no telling what it may uncover.

I've always respected your opinions and your viewpoints Ever, and reading this saga certainly hasn't diminished them. These sorts of things are never easy and I wish you the best in dealing with the situation. Just wanted to add my observations on a couple of items: First off, it sounds to me like the relationship is over, and those last few smiles and hugs are the sputtering of a dying flame. This is obviously something that has been building up in her and in the relationship for awhile, and things aren’t so easily turned back on. I think you have the right idea by either going 100% or 0%. 50% (or anything in between for that matter) doesn’t work out for long and it doesn’t sound like 100% is an option right now. Second, don’t beat yourself up about choosing to move to be closer to her. At the time you decided that, there were probably quite a few factors that weighed into the decision and you went with the one that seemed the best at the time. Do what you can to make it the best situation for the now as well. Anyway, good luck and I am just one of many hoping for the best possible outcome for you!

By you even going to Disneyland with her, you open the door to let her have her way with you --that is half assing it. Being with you without the need to commit to you. The longer you let her keep you in the gray, she'll keep you in the gray cause it requires no engagement on her behalf --but you, if you allow her, you'd probably commit yourself to her. One way street...ain't gonna work.. So it seems the better thing for now is to cut off completely and if you both decide you want to be together, it better be at 100%, otherwise it's just another half-assed attempt. The only thing that would suck if the only reason she says no to being with you now is the need to test the waters elsewhere, which again, puts you into the backup boyfriend category....

If she introduces you as her boyfriend and seems to be acting as such, with the affection and all, you have every right to pester her about what she's been up to the past three days. However, if you guys are broken up, then be broken up.. Doing the gray thing will get old real fast --especially for you on the emotional side.

At least some positives came out of this situation right?

It's good that you set these limits beforehand. Black and white is usually more favorable for situations such as these where emotions can alter a decision so easily. Don't be her emotional backup, you are worth more than that. Be your own person, let her come into her own. In order for you to separate, you need to let yourself untangle the emotional attachment.

Just keep reminding yourself you don't need to be hanging out in the gray, that there may be someone out there who's willing to be with you at the 100% that you so deserve.

Just reread the entire thread for the first time in a while and wanted to put a potential end to the drama here. You've all been so kind, respectful, honest, interested, and consistent, and I wanted to fill you in on what could be the final bout for the time being.

I had her come over tonight and she knew what was in store. We had another good talk like the one the other day while driving. We basically discussed that lingering in a grey area is both harmful to anything we may have in the future as well as harmful to me right now. I reiterated that I didn't want to go my own way from the start and that I'm glad I stuck around, and she told me that she indeed doesn't feel like I'm leaving her or any regret-inducing thing like that. I asked her if she has discovered anything since her initial "confusion" in her life which catalyzed this and she said that she's still pretty ambiguous.

The talk was basically for me to fill up my sanity bucket so that I feel comfortable detaching for a while. I asked questions, she gave honest answers. To me it was kind of a farewell - deep but not too emotional. The interesting part is that again she didn't like this aspect of it. She let me know that she didn't want to fully detach and that she doesn't like the idea / think that rules are necessary ("don't call me" etc.) but that she was willing to try it out for the time being in light of me and our relationship. She also said that she feels like I'm overreacting (not in a offensive tone) in that she said to not get too worked up over it. Don't read that as it probably sounds though, lol. She was basically trying to say that she feels it's not as bad as I'm making it out to be in that she didn't want me creating ideas of leaving her forever and such. When she was leaving, she wanted to get on the move and was standing around but didn't want to leave. She became teary-eyed and reminded me to not "be like that" when I finalized that I consider us fully broken up (keep in mind her dislike of labels..)

Because of these mixed emotional reactions from her I realize that she truely is rather confused and needs to be on her own for a while to prioritize, live, flourish, and maybe wind up back in my arms some day. She has been and is being selfish, but that's ok with me. She's been very honest and willing to listen/meet and I'm just not one to be mad at someone because they're in development. All I asked for from the start was honesty and I think she's given me quite a lot, save some things I would like to know but probably could only have brought about through unnecessary force on my part.

Of course this isn't the end of things, but on the larger scale, I hope it is for the time being. Any comments, criticism, or further advice are all still warmly welcome.

Thanks again for being there guys. You really have helped me develop, not only on a selfish me-level but also on a level that will hopefully have positive effects on family, friends, and strangers alike.

Damn, you really do love her. Not that I doubted it, but man, it's so rare to watch someone truly set someone free and set your own ego aside. I am humbled by your total ability to let go, and to truly love her... that you're doing that by investing 0% right now. I mean it... 50% would be selfish for both of you, and you've realized that. You are being real with yourself, and with her, and while you love her you are not going to tolerate her immaturity (that's what it is). That takes TOUGH love, man. Cheers.

I hope something works out for you in the end, whether with her in the future or with someone else who is ready for what you have to give right now.

..At least you have some closure. For the moment at least. Breathe and take a long deep sigh.

Hey Ever, how are things progressing? I just came across this thread and I hope that things have improved. As someone who is in a long-term relationship, I hate seeing them fall apart!

It is normal to start questioning if she is cheating on you after haveing such a dramatic change in here behavior and I understand that it makes you start questioning more in your relationship. It is okay to question and wonder but if you voice every question you have to your girlfriend it will only overwhelm her with how much you 'might' not trust her and that could just possibly send her off the deep and and make her do irrational things that she probally never would have done before. So sometimes it is better on the relationship to be a little less honest and a little more sugar coated.

I'm with Gabbyness Ever, give us an update when you get the chance! Hope all is progessing as well as it can be.

i'll try throw in my two cents also..hopefully it hasn;t already been said..

i'm one of those girls who needs her space. when your gf says she needs space, it means let her call you and tell you when she wants to see you. cuz the more you worry and keep calling and asking her to get together, the more irritated she's gonna get. i'm like that a lot. and for me personally, it has nothing to do with cheating or losing interest. sometimes we feel pressured to see the guy too much. are your both your feelings reciprocal? does she feel the same way that you feel about her? is she a little more careless maybe? another thing: has she always sort of been like this, or talked about personal space, or is it really all of a sudden? think positive for the time being. if she doesn;t tell you more about it so you can understand it better, then only maybe start being a little curious about her interest in you..sorry to say that. but, it really might have nothing to do with you!

when i'm in a relationship, i end up spending so much ctime, ALL MY FREE TIME with my bf, that i completely forget and neglect my friends--it's a damn vicious circle. so from my part, i can completely understand her wanting to see her friends too. just talk to her, but dont be over th etop with questions connoting different things. seeing that she needs to do other things, she;s in a period of transition, and the situation needs to be handled gently.

hope that helped.

I can understand a lot of this taboo. I guess the only thing to look out for is that if she's normally enjoyed spending so much of her time with you and all of a sudden requests some time off, it's at least bound for questions. It's just like functioning within a routine and all of a sudden you do somethng completely out of the norm --there's got to be a reason for it, be it good or bad, right?

I am also that way, when I fall into a relationship, I realize I spend less time iwth my friends--usually due to diffrent interests. My friends, ironically, when I'm involved with someone, they aren't so they're more into going out at night and meeting people. I end up putting off a lot of my friends when I get involved with someone that a lot of times my friends end up resenting me. Oddly though, they are the same as well.

If she hasn't given you a reason to worry before, then maybe it's too soon to get your panties in a bunch..but if you feel the need for answers, you are entitled to them.

No happy ending? Being an American consumer, and patriotically conforming to our stereotypical marketing profiles, I NEED A HAPPY ENDING! ;-)

In all seriousness, I hope things are going well for you, -EVER-...whether they are with the old flame or with some new one.

Hey guys, sorry about the delayed response. I see that some of you are on the edges of your seats ;) Such good friends you are..

So you want a happy ending huh? Well here I am, healthy, rejuvinated, reborn, and still feeling the electricity of life. Is that happy enough? Is it not 'happy' that the girl and I are seemingly inded over, if that's the kind of response you were looking for? Well that's the reality of it and the black and white answer for now.

Today was the first day I've seen her in a week or two and it was also the first time that I didn't feel like crap when we said goodbye to eachother. It's come to the point that when I look at her, I see her as more of an artifact of a past life of mine- I appreciate her and positive memories dance in my head when I see her, but the emotional attachments and any need whatsoever for her compassion have literally seemed to be reduced to zero. It's harsh to say, but I think I can honestly say that she's becoming more of a memory every day that goes by.

I hope the conclusion to this post hasn't come across as too somber. It is in thought, but as cheesy as it sounds, like a phoenix I feel I've risen from the ashes of this once-beautiful relationship and am finally ready for life. I recently met an unexplainably beautiful person who has helped me through my "rebuilding phase." The pivotal, emotional phases were largely spent with family, friends, and here on the forum, and I met this person when I was past this mopey phase and well into the become-who-I-used-to-be phase which has been such an amazing experience. My optimism has been well reinstated and I now carry this experience in my back pocket as something I hold extremely dear to me because I've learned so much from it.

It blows my mind that people have wanted to know the outcome of all of this, so much that they've made posts asking me to follow up. You guys are all amazing individuals... Words can't and won't ever do it justice so I'll just leave it at that.

-T

"I still hear your voice from across the horizon,
And wasn't that you walking into the shadows?
In time I'll believe it was just and illusion,
In time I'll believe it was only a dream..."

A very strong responce from you Ever. I don't think I could have done it better. A toast to a new begining,

New life breaks though
As flowers in spring snow
Their scent speards upon the vale bellow
Eyes lay upon them as the morning dew.
Of a girl waiting all along for you.


Cheers!

Wow, I've really enjoyed reading this and watching as it progressed, Ever. I didn't post because honestly I didn't think I had much to offer, but I think I learned a lot from your experience and how others would have dealt with it.

I'm glad you have found a peace, of sorts, and wish you the best inthe future.

Sometimes, it isn't time that heals all things, rather the affection, attention and to say loosely 'love' (not necessarily romantically) coming from another person who allots their time to understand you and what you're going through.

I had a similar experience with my current best friend. I guess we did this for each other. We provided for each other this safe haven..away from them (the exes). And when it seemed that everything we knew as 'our world(s)' came crashing down..in the end, we had each other and that has made all the difference.

Congratulations on your progression....