Do gay men feel welcome here?
 

I was just thinking about how many women on TFP are very open with their bi- or lesbian-ness, while I really haven't read many posts (or especially new threads) from bi- or especially gay men.

Unfortunately, as open-minded as many of us are, it seems our community still parallels society in this way. That is, it's sexy, cool, and hot for women to like each other here, but when it comes to gay men, they seem to be invisible and withdrawn from most conversations/threads. I have a feeling there are many gay men on TFP who feel inhibited about posting (please correct me if I am wrong!).

Am I missing something here, since I've only been around here for a few months? :hmm: If not, and if my observation is correct, what can we do to help all sexualities become more normative and welcomed on TFP?

You know, you're right; I haven't seen it either.

I think it's sexy, cool, and hot for men to like each other. :) And for women to like each other. And for men and women to like one another.

This is an interesting topic. My lesbian friends didn't hesitate to be open about their sexuality. Another friend of mine had a very difficult time sharing with me that he was gay. He claimed he was worried about losing my respect. Eh? Why would that ever change my respect for him?

A person's sexual life and preferences seem so private and not at all my business nor does it hold my interest. I don't negate whatever societal or family discord might arise. It's simply not something by which I judge people.

Well... it seems to me that since most people probably found the TFP as a result of the titty board (correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I get) there might just not be that many gay-oriented guys floating around.

There is a titty board? That certainly didn't bring me here. :eek:

You'll know of this great place once you lose your rookie status. ;) I believe people of any sexuality should feel welcome here. One of the reasons that I stayed here was for the whole free feeling here. Express my opinion without haveing 15 flammers for every descent comment (titty board is good too :lol: ).
Everyone should feel welcome here. TFP is the best community ever!

i dunno...i feel fine about being out here as a bi man...and i've run into others as well.

that said...the board can be heteronormative at times, and there is some lack of voices. like all things, not perfect. but i feel i can work with it.

Out of curiosity, anybody who's posting in here saying they didn't find TFP because of the titty board or being related to or friends with someone who knew of the titty board...

How DID you come across TFP?

I would hope that gay men would feel welcome here. We do strive to foster that openness. And I do know that we have several gay/bi men in our membership.

The answers, to the questions that you seek, may be located here.

I was initally drawn by the titty board (because who doesn't like tittys?) but stuck around because I liked the community. There's not a lot of places even online where you can have the sort of frank and open (and mature) discussion of as many diverse topics as you can on TFP.

As far as gay men go, the cynic in me thinks that they feel a need to hide that's been sort of bred there by the way we treat them at large. I think it's safe to say that most of the people here are pretty open minded (they wouldn't last long if ther weren't), but the fact is that in the world at large it's still hard to be gay. Yeah, there's a double standard out there and it sucks.

Being heterosexual myself I don't have first hand experience and therefore may be wrong, but living with two gay roomates in the past sort of opened my eyes to the whole thing. And I got over the whole insecure thing pretty quickly, although I'll admit that it was there at first.

I don't think popular culture in the western world helps the issue. I've yet to see what I'd consider a 'normal' gay man on television or in movies. I used to watch hockey and football with my roomates (and lacrosse and stock racing and basketball, for that matter), whereas on tv they seem to prefer stars on ice and antiques roadshow. While I'm sure that's true in some cases, it's not a universal truth with gay mena any more than it is with straight men (or gay or staight women, for that matter).

Again, first hand input is the most useful here. I can only offer conjecture.

I had intended that question to be pointed specifically towards the people responding in this thread who did not come to TFP as a result of the TB, not the general populace.

i came to TFP because a friend pointed me to the art forum. but here on the TFP, just like in my real life, i don't offer up my opinion very often. i believe that everyone is entitled to live their own life without me telling them what to do, or what i think is right.

i now realize that with this frame of mind, i'm not going to learn anything new from the smart folks here. so i'm gonna try to branch out and participate in more than just the art forums.

...oh yeah and to keep it on topic, nope. haven't noticed the gay men here. but titled sexuality isn't really my thing... gay or straight. (now i'm off to look at some titty)

The almighty google

Well, I'd just be lying if I said I didnt have a different perspective on lesbianism to male homosexuality - but its really cos one involves girls (which I find sexually interesting) and one involves guys (which I dont find sexually interesting.

I think culturally, female flirting and faux-bisexuality is becoming very common (not that Im saying that there arent lots of genuine bisexual women) and its also just far more socially acceptable for a women to flirt or make comments about another women than it is for a man to do it about a man. I dont think its anything to do with the tfp, its just how society.

Anyway, from my point of view, I couldnt tell you the sexuality of a lot of people here - its a part of who everyone is, but not really the biggest deal to me... and if people want to talk about relationships between whoever, its cool with me. I'd probably be less likely to comment in a thread that was spefically about sexual practices between two men, because primarily I dont know much about it; but if it was just a relationship issue, I think I'd be as likely to try and offer my very limited advice whatever the gender of the person asking and the person they fancy.

I feel it more than "at times," but I suppose since you don't feel too oppressed by it, it can't be THAT bad. In any case, it never hurts to talk about it openly this way. Thanks for starting this thread, abaya.

fair enough...but i guess i think about it in comparision. between here and the average conversation on the street...and i feel safer being out here. not to mention that what is supposed to be queer community is often homonormative...

the thing that i have noticed most in recent past is a really strange and possibly damaging discourse around female bisexuality, that assumes that women somehow "naturally" make out with eachother at the drop of a hat, and that there's got to be some secret for a straight man to get in on this action. it's trivalizing and really sort of gauche....but this i suppose is the blessing of being a man here: my sexuality is almost never portrayed as being that of object, but rather actor. i can like a man or a woman...as long as i'm playing/performing "masculinity."

Good comments, all... though let me note that we still haven't seen any gay men respond to this thread! I would really appreciate hearing from that segment of our TFP population, and I hope we can help you feel as comfortable as possible posting here. I do think most of us are really open-minded, but I agree with Martian that we are not in some utopian place that's disconnected from the real world.

For example, for the guys who post their pictures in the Exhibition areas, would you feel comfortable with other men making the kinds of comments that everyone makes about the women's pics? If not, why? I would find it refreshing to see something like this happen... it would signal to me that gay men do indeed feel as comfortable as straight men here.

Martinguerre, I was aware that you were bi, but I am not clear on many other men who may be bi (and I certainly am not aware of any gay male TFP'ers yet). Thank you for being open about yourself, it is helpful for understanding.

Sure. :)

Getting great comments from folks when we post pics is always really enjoyable no matter who they're from, and I've seen plenty of comments from other guys. The generally go something like "I'm not gay or anything, but... you've got a great body/penis/arms/etc"

There are members here....who for one reason or another attract me to them....honestly is really makes little difference what sex they are as all are portrayed by the words they type. If I were gay....I really dont think anyone here would shun me in any obvious way.
There will be the Homophobics in any community ,TFP is no different. But, we would destroy anyone who showed outright disrespect for any other member....regardless of the reason.

My point is, there is really no reason for one to hide sexual preference here. Between the inherent maturity of our membership base, and the skills of your Moderation staff, there is great freedom of expression within these walls. Just be who you are....that is all we ask.

Well, Any praise I could get I would be grateful for!

I actually did post a pic in the exhibition thread, even though I am not really very pleasing on the eye, and I got back a lot of positive comments from other men, which werent necessarily sexual, but were positive to me and I was pleased to receive, cos I thought all that would come back would be silence!

But maybe the fact is just there are more heterosexual voices than homosexual ones... so heterosexual comments will always seem prevalent

I'd like to think that if any community "accepted" all forms of sexuality it would be TFP. I've noticed some bi, and gay men around the board and have seen them post on some of the subject. I don't think that they are ashamed or anything, just that they may not be the thread starter types. Of course none of it matters to me, as I'm not concerned with a person's sexuality. Interesting topic though!

Guccilvr, glad to know that you have noticed more gay male voices speaking up. This was something I mentioned in the OP... that perhaps I was wrong, but that in the last few months that I have been on TFP, the gay male voice was silent as far as I knew. So I'm glad to have some history.

I agree with all, it doesn't matter to me what sexuality a TFP'er is, or even if they are just undecided (hell, I fit into that category sometimes)... but in some forums like this one, and in some of the member-only boards, sexuality is quite a prominent topic. It would be difficult for someone to contribute to those places without making their own sexuality known.

Strange, I'm glad you've had comments that are from other men and they haven't been shy. You have a point with this observation, too: I just haven't seen ANY gay men posting in quite a long time, so that's why I start to wonder. I know you guys are out there, and I want to hear from you... I am just trying to understand why you might not feel comfortable posting. Please, if you can, give us your perspective if you are reading this!

In Martel's example, I have noticed some of these "I'm not gay, but..." and they bother me. Also, some people still carelessly use words like "gay" and "fag" as adjectives for behavior and personality traits, which also bothers me. They are signs that many straight men still feel very uncomfortable with any thought/behavior that could be taken as being gay, even if they are not homophobic themselves. I suppose we can't do much to change this, given the societal context of the TFP, but at least we can work more on noticing these comments and not being complicit.

Those members who are gay and don't feel comfortable here should think about why that is and either post or PM an administrator/moderator with their suggestions and making it better. I have never seen, nor do I expect to see anyone shunned for their sexual preference. If you are gay and want to tell someone, I can't think of a better place to start than TFP. With a forum as big and popular as this, you will not be alone.

They should also remember how many allies there are present in this community who are willing to help them out with any issues they may be having.

I really respect everyone around here, and I have to applaud everyone for being so open, honest, communicative and most of all, caring when it comes to the other members of their community. :icare: People should feel free to share themselves here.

I think with all the positive responses in this thread we might just see some more activity from the gay men of this community. I also agree with the statements echoed in this post. I don't think anyone will shun them and if they do...well they'll be banned simple as that. This is a very accepting community. I have noticed a few bi-curious men here in various threads. My thread asking if straight men had ever been hit on by other men, the thread asking if straight guys ever felt the desire to give a blowjob, and I'm sure a couple of other posts so they're around definitely.

It's probably like they said maybe they aren't topic starters but when a topic comes around they actually have some interest in they reply.

For the record it wouldn't bother me if I posted some exibition pics (I probably will if I ever get a camera) and they complimented me. Any compliment is well recieved.

Asta!!

I asked this same question about 15 months ago (this thread), and I'm glad to see that this discussion has been more positive this time than last time. I find it strange that the TiVo board has more "out" gay guys than TFP does.

I came here for the computer board and wasn't even aware that there was a titty board. I think I was told that there was an exhibition board, but I'd completely forgotten about it until I read this thread (since I don't currently have access).

I certainly don't have a problem with gay men.

I have no problem with gay men. nwlinkvxd's roommate is gay, and I'll be living with him very soon. :shrug: It's just another lifestyle- who cares?

Redlemon, sorry for overlapping with your post, as I confess I didn't do a search beforehand. But I'm glad you told us about it, since it was interesting to compare responses. I agree that folks have been more positive this time around, but that it hasn't produced many more responses. I do wonder if it comes down to the "raging heterosexuality" that was mentioned in that thread... moreso on the men's part than the women's. Or do we really just not attract many gay men period because of the hetero/bi-women slant of this forum? (do they come, look around, then leave, as you suggested?)

Damn I just wish we could get some responses from gay individuals to help us understand what's going on, so we can fix it... I suppose I shouldn't put pressure on, but there is a serious lack of representation on the boards that needs changin'.

No problem abaya; in fact, I waited until your thread was well underway before mentioning my previous post, because I was hoping that it would go better this time. I really feel that the gay male voice is seriously underrepresented on TFP, and that results in a loss of perspective.

as ~springrain said:
they might sense the "raging heterosexualism" and decide to leave

many straight guys just aren't the most accepting of people. and, even if they are "accepting" of male homosexuality, they still treat their heterosexuality and female homosexuality/bisexuality as if it is inherently and absolutely better than male homosexuality/bisexuality. this isn't exactly welcoming for people who are interested in discussing something that will just get negative or apathetic responses.

that is my opinion and experience.

It seems like an oxymoron to defend apathy, but that's where my opinion lies. I'm not anti-gay, I'm not pro-gay, I seriously don't give a shit who you sleep with. I would think that apathy is in the gay communities long term best interest. It's more of a " live and let live" mentality.

Without checking it out, I find it strange that sexual preference would get any mention on a TiVo board.

I definitely found TFP because of the titty board, but that was before it became off-limits to rookies. I think that reasoning isn't as prevalent now.

None in this thread, and none in my thread; that just sucks.

When seretogis stopped posting I think we lost our only gay poster who was out about it... I can't think of any other gay posters.

Actually, I think gay men are EXTREMELY attractive, and I think a lot of other women do as well (hence the spawning of the term "fag hag").
I think the reason TFP is heteronormative is because North American (and probably global) culture is heteronormative. we are a product of our environment, as the Naturalist would like us to believe. :p
Any time anyone feels like a thread is being too heteronormative, please speak up. I would really like to broaden my perceptions, as would a lot of other people here I believe.

I know a fellow who's bi-curious who was once a member in a previous life of TFP. He is not currently a member though.

Charlatan... do you know why seretogis (I didn't know him at all) stopped posting? Did it have anything to do with the attitudes of the forum, or was it unrelated?

I'm starting to believe that either there are NO gay men on TFP, or that we really are so hetero- and bi-women crazy that any gay male TFP'ers are extremely intimidated and do not want to come out in any way. Perhaps the former is connected to the latter. Both thoughts depress me, especially because this thread has been so positive (in my opinion).

Hell, even if a gay man posted here and gave a diatribe on why the TFP sucks, I'd appreciate it. At least then I'd have some understanding/insight.

I don't know why... he was a prolific poster in Politics and was one of the anchors for the right minded, libertarian side of the board.

Perhaps he grew tired of the petty bickering in Politics.

umm, hello? and you wonder why gay men feel like their voice isn't being heard. :\

Well, I guess there could be a Gay Board or something to that effect.
Perhaaps a board where it is a comfortable place for the gay community.

Of course the board wouldn t be to segregate anyone but to give people a cplace to talk about common things like....


Anyhow; living in nyc I'm used to the gay community and some of my closest friends happen to be gay.

For the most part everything that intersts a gay person interests a straight person that is why you really do not even realize somtimes that there is a gay community on the boards because besoides liking cock I think they are all the same..

If indeed...there is a percieved bias against Gay Men in this world of TFP, We need to know about it. When this thread began, I decided to follow it in an attempt to gain a bit of insight, and because I have also noted a hole where these voices should be. We strive to create something different in this community....an evolution of society if you will, and cannot really do so if we are blind to what the community is thinking. This is the primary reason we are successful, acceptance.

I ask this community now......are we missing something here?
Do Members feel excluded because of Sexuality?
If so....What suggestions are there for a fix?

The "only out gay poster" seemed to answer the question in the other thread...

Just cause they aren't advertising, and why should they, doesn't mean they aren't here as participants in this community.

Actually, I all but stopped posting here due to having no internet access at my temporary job and being so busy with my World of Warcraft guild when I'm not working. I stopped posting in The Full Monty due to that forum suddenly being indexed in Google, and that I don't want searches of my name pulling up porn that I post for the few men/women here that enjoy it. TFP is a great community already, though I sometimes roll my eyes at the lengths at which some people go to be accepting, but that's more due to my log-cabin-Libertarian politics than any fault of TFP. I poke around on the board occasionally but usually back out of my replies because I don't have the time at the moment to dutifully monitor the threads I post on.

As for specific attempts at attracting more openly gay men, I personally wouldn't want to see that happen here. I'm not a fan of creating a "gay forum" to cater to the stereotypical rainbow-flag-waving "gay community" anymore than I am a fan of creating a "busted down truck forum" to attract southern white-trash. I think that people should feel comfortable enough with TFP as-is to know that if their sexuality were to matter, this is a safe non-judgemental place to speak of it.

Good to see you Seretogis and thanks for chiming in on this...

This is exactly how I feel about it as well. I just couldn't articulate it...

I'm sorry if this offended you or anyone else; my intent was to say that I'd appreciate any response, positive or negative, to the TFP status quo, and it would be more helpful if it came from the gay male perspective. Until Seretogis posted (thank you), I had absolutely no information on what the gay community thought about the TFP, so I was trying to encourage people to post ANY opinion so that we might better understand how to change it if necessary. I hope it did not get taken the wrong way.

Then again, is it really necessary to change the TFP, as others have said here? Can we force the whole community to change?... I still feel like we are missing a great deal (compared to how much we hear about hetero- and mostly female-bi issues), but force isn't often the best way to go in these situations.

There's also a "Full Monty" board. I haven't been in there much, but I'm pretty sure that anyone who finds nude men attractive could find something they like.

I came here from a link on Big Boards, and didn't know about the titty board until it showed up one day, though I have been thoroughly enjoying it since it did show up.

I've noticed a lack of gay and bi men talking openly, but as others have said, it may be that they're here but not talking about their sexuality.

On the other hand, I really haven't seen many homosexual women either. A lot of bi or bi-curious women, or just those who enjoy openly flirting with each other, certainly, but most seem to be in hetero relationships, and I don't think I can recall, in the short time I've been here, reading of any other women in an exclusively lesbian relationship or who consider themselves lesbian rather than bi, though that may be because I've not been here long.

I feel comfortable discussing my sexuality and confusion regarding whether I'm gay or bi in part because of the large number of bi women here. It may be that the gay men haven't seen the equivilent among the guys, and so don't feel as comfortable coming out here.

It may be a simple matter of mathematics--most people are heterosexual, and we live in a culture that assumes heterosexuality unless there are signs to the contrary, so unless someone announces their sexuality, we may not know about it.

Slightly relevant observation to this thread:

I have 4 committed gay couples in my life: friends,neighbors,coworkers and family. However, all four of the couples are male. So, I actually find it strange that all of the bi/bi-curious/lesbian women I know are on the internet and all the gay men I know are in real life!

In a poor attempt to tie that back to this thread, I propose that there might not be as many bi/bi-curious/lesbian women on TFP as we think. Perhaps, some use it as a means of getting attention on the board. Not, that there is anything wrong with that because exploring sexuality, even if it is only something you do in your mind, is what this place is about! :)

Also, there is a lot more content here for straight men and lesbian women. I haven't really seen that much content geared towards gay men. Could that be why?

Which comes first the chicken or the egg?

Does the content bring the posters or do the posters bring the content?

Are there few gay men on the boards because there is little content geared towards gay men or is there little content geared towards gay men becuase there are few gay men on the boards?

You get my point.

I find it amusing that my gay roommate is staunchly against heterosexuality and lesbianism, and I'm supportive of all styles of sexuality.