Masturbation not against the Bible
 

Quote from : http://www127.pair.com/critical/food-03.htm


I looked up the verse in question. Onan was guilty of the sin of refusing Gods direct order to consumate with his brothers wife. The Jewish tradition is called "levirate marriage" - The issue with wasted sperm is primarily a church tradition - and especially the Catholic Churches fixation on sperm has been noted (Monty Python "Every Sperm is Sacred")

Are there any other verses? Can someone - using scripture - argue to me that there is a biblical basis for this? What do modern day spiritual leaders say about this? Is there adminition against these pratices in other holy works for other religions?

I hope also that I got the right forum - this can be mostly reviewed as a religious discussion.

I don't think there are any parts of the Bible that say masturbation is wrong. The only reason people think it's wrong is because the church back in the day said maturbation is wrong. A lot of misconceptions people have are due to dumb rules that the church made up, not the Bible.

Dumbfuck people from the middle ages decided to say that bodily gratification in any form is wrong, sex is only to make babies, etc, so people still think that today. People are dumb as shit and the problem is that these ministers and pastors and whoever don't preach what the Bible says, they preach what THEY say the Bible says. Then they find vague references to back up their outrageous statements.

I recall a passage someone once quoted .. (kinda), something about god being pissed because some guy spilled his "seed".

Regardless, it doesn't matter if it was against the bible - most would still do it anyway. Besides, they're saved from all sin anyway.

lol Stompy and Carn.

Very true. I can wack-off till I am a raw, but as long as I ask for forgivness, its all good.

Being athiest myself, I could care less what people interpet the bible to say, but again like the post above says, even it says its wrong...most everyone still will.

Hell if it was illegal, people would have a Whack-House right next to a Crack-House.

Uh... Stompy, read the first post again. And no one is "saved from sin." If you sin and then repent and really mean it, God will forgive you, but you still sinned the same as anyone else.

The thing about the Genesis verse is that the dumbfuck Catholic church took shit out of context. God was pissed because Onan did not impregnate the woman, not because Onan jizzed on the ground. Just another thing that moron religious people screwed up.

MASTURBATION IN ITSELF IS NOT A SIN. You don't have to repent for it. However, if you think about a man/woman (who is not your husband/wife, even if you aren't married yet) while you wank, THAT is a sin. Lusting is a sin, and coveting another person's spouse is a sin, but the Bible says NOTHING about masturbation being a sin.

Not being able to masturbate is your punishment for being a sucker...

LMFAO!

Yeah that's true... If you don't read the Bible for yourself, you deserve to get worked over by insane religious people.

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful! :thumbsup:

Nope it's not in there and I've looked long and hard for it.


**Now regrets having put long and hard in the same sentence**

Zeph 3:16
"...let not thy hand be slack."

Sound like the Bible promotes it.

Hate to rain on your parade:

Matthew 5:27-30

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Of course it doesn't say anything about looking at men...

Wow. Short of cutting your balls off or making sure all women dress in burkhas, this seems impossible to follow.

Hate to rain on your parade but looking at a woman lustfully does not equate with masturbation. True, they often go hand in hand (groan) but the one does not necessitate the other.

It's somewhat difficult to jerk off without lustful thoughts. The physical act of it might not be a sin but the thoughts that aid completion probably are.

Difficult, maybe. Impossible, no. And the wording certainly does not imply that masturbating while thinking of your wife is wrong.

*sigh* literal interpretations of the Bible are, in the majority of cases, silly. That's all I'm gonna say to that.

I almost never masturbate against the bible, the leather jacket is too cold and makes me all shrivelly.

-fibbers

What about jerkin' off onto the Bible?

I'm pretty sure splooging on the bible is an instant ticket to hell. :thumbsup:

On the topic of lust being a sin, where in the bible does it say that?

Too true. But tell fundies that.

Let me get this straight, it's okay to hump your brother's wife, but you can't hump your hand?

Reading comprehension is fun and easy! Try it sometime.

There may or may not be words in the Bible condemning masturbation as a sin. I really don't know.
I can tell you that the general philosophy of the New Testament is to deny the self and follow Jesus. His example of self denial was allowing Himself to be executed by crucifixion. Masturbation would be a hinderance to a metaphorical crucifixion of self because it has only one goal-- self pleasure.

<i>MASTURBATION IN ITSELF IS NOT A SIN. You don't have to repent for it. However, if you think about a man/woman (who is not your husband/wife, even if you aren't married yet) while you wank, THAT is a sin. Lusting is a sin, and coveting another person's spouse is a sin, but the Bible says NOTHING about masturbation being a sin.
</i>

I think that this is it. Personally I believe that masturbation is a sin for these reasons and yes it would be incredibly hard..or not (pun..groan...) to masturbate without lustful thoughs of other persons/people.

uh i dont think im wrong on this but i will post a scripture to prove it tomorrow.. but forniciation .. masturbation falls under this guideline i believe..

and from a cristian stand point the only sex you should be having is with a person your married to. no exceptions. any thing else is bad.

HockeyGuy - talking to women can lead men to lust over them. Is talking to a woman a sin?

What about this....masturbating while thinking of a possible future spose - therefore you wont be adulturing in your mind cause you may marry the person in the future.

For all intents and purposes they dont even need a face really - just sexual organs. and any invention of the imagination is just that - imagination, and not a real person.

The people in the middle ages did not believe that bodily gratification in any form was wrong. Nor did they say that sex was only to make babies. They had no problem with sex for pleasure as long as it was within marriage. During the middle ages it was illegal for either partner to refuse sex with the other. This was canonical law. Why would a Church that believed bodily gratification was wrong have a law like that? It's true that there had always been ascetic sects who wanted to deny the body to make their spirits stronger but they were on the fringe of Christianity anyway. (These ascetics actually lived on pillars in the desert.) The Cathari are another source of this idea that mediaeval Christians thought bodily gratification was wrong. They believed in two gods. The Good God who made the soul and the Evil God who made the body. The way to achieve salvation was by extreme asceticism. They were known to starve themselves to death and actually believed that procreation was a sin because it trapped good souls in evil bodies. In case anyone missed it, the Cathari were not Christians. They believed in two gods, not one. The Catholic church has always held that the body was a good thing because God became an incarnate man and anyone who says differently is considered a heretic.

The idea that masturbation is wrong is, I believe, rooted in Augustine's teachings and general disdain for the corporeal world. Sadly, despite our better judgement as a more universally aware society, Augustine's sentiments have somehow lasted for much longer than was appropriate. Personally, I am much more attracted to the sentiments of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and I believe that, over time, the general concepts he held will gain more and more acceptance at least within Catholicism.

I think the morals of masturbation are simple. Everything in moderation. If it is taking over your mind or life- or if you are becomming someone you could not explain to your mother without ruining the relationship(this is for those who dont have psycotic mothers :P) - then it is time to find a healthy center.

Everything in moderation. That means if you drink - moderation. Smoke - moderation. live life? for the most part - moderation....:)

Excuse me if I am wrong, but if you masturbate, you`ll always "waste" your "seed", don`t you?!
Therefore it IS a sin to masturbate, unless you carry your cum to the next-best vagina.

holy shit, ive had a breakthrough....some people say that using contraceptives is EVILE, and a SIN lord jesus amen.

but now....technically, cant sperm be construed as a murder weapon, since its known that complications in childbirth could lead to death. I need to post that in the pharmacists against birth control thread.

but I tell you what...if you're really worried about pissing god off, just get an old 1 gallon pickle jar and jack off into it every time. seal it up tight when you're done, if you want to be proper about things, put in the freezer when you're done.
then...when you do get a wife, (has to be a wife, no girlfriends allowed) go buy a funnel from the local autoparts store. when the new wife asks what the hell you are doing, just tell her that you are obeying god's direct orders, and she will be cast down to hell if she does not comply. now, thats right, funnel that stuff in there. if some falls out, dont worry, just apologize to god and he'll be cool with it.
now....thats intentionally absurd.
that should help put to light how absurd it is to try not to masterbate because of your religion.
if you never ever did it before, you stand a decent chance of being able to hold out, but once you pop, the fun dont stop, and I would argue that you must do it to promote mental stability. not to mention that wet dreams "naturally" eject sperm while you're asleep and if you beleive in god, then you must beleive that he designed you that way, therefore god would promote the disposal of sperm in times of hardship so that you have a fresh supply waiting to leap into action.

sorry if my argument is choppy, its too cold in here to maintain a continuous line of thought.

the moral is: beat it and dont repent, god wants you to.

and EDIT: you guys who posted that you should masturbate on the bible had me on the floor with laughter. I can see it now: "mom, I think you and dad should get me a box of bibles for christmas, the pages on all of my old ones are stuck together."

Woo hoo!!!

*runs off to masturbate*

What about women masturbating? No seed spillage occurs until that special time of month and I've never heard anyone say it was a sin for a woman not to conceive every time she has a viable egg.

lust n. 1. Intense, excessive, or unrestrained sexual desire. 2. An overwhelming craving. --v. To have an inordinate desire, esp. sexual desire.

admire v. 1. To regard with wonder and approval. 2. To esteem; respect.

Ah, what many people fail to realize is there is a BIG difference between lust and admiration. Yes, to all those ignorant people out there, there IS a difference between saying, "Holy shit I wanna take her out in the back alley this instant and fuck her brains out," and saying, "Daayyyyum look at the tits on that one!" Seriously; when you look at porn, do you actually DESIRE the porn actresses? I sure don't. I always think, "I wouldn't touch her with my ten foot pole 'cause she's been around the world and back again, but she sure does know how to use her mouth!" Also, yes, there IS a difference between thinking, "I want to fuck her! Yes! I want to fuck her now!" and thinking, "I wonder how great it must feel to get jiggy-wit-her."
People clearly mix up respect with disrespect. Why? Probably because their parents did, too, and taught them that it is the same thing. Well guess what: It's not!
Watch all the porno you want. Believe me; if you actually WANT to have sex with a porn actress, you need to get outside 'cause there are many beautiful women out there who haven't had sex with 999,999,999,999,999,999 men. But if you admire the beauty of a porn actress, and it may even get you turned-on, good for you! And good for her! That's what beauty is supposed to do; to be pleasing to the eye and the senses.

Well, according to the Skeptics Annotated Bible and the Lego People of Lazarus (er... the Brick Testament) it looks like wee women wenches must wesist wanting to whip out the battery-operated willy....why, why are we wegarded in diss wicked wicked way...... :D

http://www.thebricktestament.com/epi...ns_on_marriage

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...ns_rights.html

This is just... WRONG!
http://www.thebricktestament.com/epi...s/1tm06_01.jpg

Well, £50 is enough for me to ignore the bible and do it for my country. :D
http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/s...349407,00.html

right, women masturbating is a good idea. but dont forget the 11th commandment: Thou shalt not useth 3 fingers or more when pleasuring thyself, lest ye husbands deem ye harlots"

Women love it when I use four fingers to pleasure them. Hmmm.

Do you ever hear an echo when you're having sex?
;)

I think this site gave an excellent overview of the argument for masturbation from a Christian perspective:
http://www.jesusjournal.com/articles...article_9.html
But, you say, don't Catholics and many other denominations of Christianity still condemn masturbation? Yes, they do. However, let's consider this from a rational standpoint. As recently as 1940, as this exerpt mentions, there were those even in the medical community who, misguided as they may have been, thought masturbation may have been a deviant practice. Religious institutions are not going to be quick to change their beliefs based on the whims of social trends. However, most reasonable religious institutions are also willing to re-examine their beliefs when new understandings contrast with them. This is part of the reason the Catholic Church has, for over 50 years, recognized the scientific validity of evolution. I have little doubt that as we come to understand masturbation from a better standpoint, and understand that it is not the act of masturbation itself that is problematic but, as with anything, the lack of moderation that is, most reasonable religions will shift towards holding this view as well.

Just out of curiousity (I'm not a Christian), is lusting after imagined people who don't exist a sin?

That's what we call puberty. :D

Gee, I would have called it imagination. :rolleyes:

Hell, let the fundie loons think what they want. I'm more than happy to deprive people of things if they blindly follow religions.

Sorry. I'll be good now.

Yeah, the Onan spilling his seed doesn't relate to masturbation (he was told to impregnate the woman, and pulled out instead) but I do recall someone, somewhere telling me, yes, that Onan's story doesn't forbid masturbation, but rather something along the lines of Peter saying that all thoughts and actions should be kept pure, and masturbation not necessarily falling under "pure"

I'm going to hell.

but you all must understand one aspect above all others in christianity... we are human and flawed.. we cant be perfect.. we sin all the time.. dont try to be perfect live the best you can. thats all you have to do. if you spank the monkey.. fine just dont make it every aspect of your life and your ok..

yet another way to look at it.. your better off spanking it then forcing sex on a woman.

Ok, I can't quote scripture here, but I remember not too long ago being given a pamphlet in church (Catholic) about what the "mortal sins are" and the 4 that were on there were:
* Murder
* Abortion
* Sex outside of marriage
* Masturbation

So my 1st question is - how do you equate rubbing one out to abortion, in terms of severity of the offense? 2nd question would be - why did they distinguish between murder and abortion, but that's a WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE nother can of worms.

I had it explained to me once that the reason masturbation is a sin is because our bodies are supposed to be "images of God" or "God's temples" or something like that. So when we treat our bodies in this way, it's disrespectful to God.

That's the short answer anyway :)

OKAY! I am just a bit disturbed at the thought of masturbating us = masturbating God.

Then - if that is the case - wouldnt God be cheering for us then.
God: "Oh go you! you found the spot. That is my created child, Man! I am sooo freakin proud!!"

The you could also take it this way
Masturbating in respect to the image of God....for God....=living you life for God.

See how full of holes that pamphlet is? I am not even gonna touch the Abortion/murder discrepency



:D

Regarding Catholicism, what the catechism says regarding masturbation:
Now, first of all, if one were to say this is totally correct, I think it's fair to say that MOST people acquired a habit of masturbation when they were young and not fully mature. Thus, most people, IMO, would fall under the affective immaturity and force of acquired habit umbrella.

Aside for that, like I said, I don't think this is generally the right way to look at masturbation. Catholicism is a particularly interesting religion I think because you can talk to two priests and get entirely opposite answers regarding the faith. While some may think that shows a lack of decisiveness, I think that the freedom to which theological issues can be considered, with respect for the primacy of conscience, allows for the Catholic Church to be quite malleable when it comes to rethinking various outlooks. For example: where I went to church as a kid, one of the priests freely expressed his belief that there is no such thing as a requirement to not eat meat on Fridays during Lent. It's a nice symbolic thing to do, but basically he asserted that it doesn't matter one bit if you do it or not in the grand scheme of things. There are other priests one could speak to who would say such an opinion is terrible and completely contrary to the church's teaching. Likewise, there are many priests today who are still opposed to the reforms of Vatican II which, once fully accepted, I think pave way to LOTS of theological conclusions that are different from the "official" stance of the Church now.

Point being, there are quite conservative Catholics and quite liberal Catholics. Most of the more liberal Catholics that I've had the pleasure of experiencing make little differentiation between "mortal" and "venial" sins. Indeed, I've gone to Catholic schools for 13 years and went through Catholic confirmation classes through my church for 2 of the 4 years I was attending a public high school, and I have never once been taught the difference between a mortal or venial sin. Yet, on the other hand, there are still some Catholics who will not participate in the handshake of peace during mass because they object to it and other various parts of Vatican II which make the Catholic faith much more open and liberal.

Point being, change in the Catholic Church does not happen from the top down; it happens from the bottom up. I truly believe that women will become priests in the next 100 years at most within the Catholic Church, because the forces are in place and the sentiment is moving up the chain. Likewise, I think the contemporary Catholic theological movement is progressing a new unerstanding of sexuality and its place in our lives. The change, however, is happening from the bottom up, so it's not going to be seen in any "official" documents. The last time the church REALLY talked about masturbation was 1975 (that is what the section in the catechism is based on), and even in just the past 30 years we have come extremely far in getting a better understanding of ourselves. Take that into account as well as the fact the current pope is considered to be a "conservative" Catholic (something which many of the cardinals in the church do not like, because he does not tend to support the collegiality that was proposed in Vatican II), and I think that the church is ripe for drastic changes in theological thinking in the next 100 years and even just in the next papacy.

As a side note, one can already see this beginning in a new sex guide that has been sanctioned by the Vatican which supports post-coital masturbation for people who have failed to get off :thumbsup:

Are there any religions other than Christianity (and I assume Judaism and Islam) that keep such a tight reign on sexuality? Do the Eastern religions try to regulate it?

More liberal views in Christianity do not have a negative view of the act of masturbation in and of itself, as far as I know, only orthodox Judaism is against masturbation, and Buddhism is against masturbation for monks and nuns. As far as ordinary people, Buddhism is not against masturbation for them, but one can see how a Buddhist might argue that masturbation can lead to an unhealthy attachment to the corporeal world when done in excess. This, I believe, is the true argument against masturbation if there is one.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So masturbating to the thought of my wife is a sin? Now I've heard everything!

Catholicism is a particularly interesting religion I think because you can talk to two priests and get entirely opposite answers regarding the faith.

You are absolutely right, I asked a priest about cursing and if its against god, one said yeah another said no because people get that from when someone in the Bible I forget who said "Life and death is in the power of the tongue" which has nothing to do with cursing, he then said how are you hurting anything if you said "Damn that was a nice shot!".

Ok here's a BETTER question if you want to bring God into it:

If God didn't want us to have sex for pleasure, why did He/She create the orgasm? huh? tell me THAT. Seems to me it would be disrespectful to NOT take advantage of this wonderful gift.........

ummm no masterbating to the thought of someone OTHER than your wife would be the sin

Never seen scriptural basis.
 

I must say that I've never heard anybody substantiate that claim. As a minister, I would never consider masturbation a sin, nor would I tell anybody else so. Remember that A) Monty Python was a comedy group, and their songs are only for entertainment purposes B) many of these nonsensical rules--i.e. missionary position, no masturbation, don't spill semen--are carried over from when people thought sexual control was the key to solving the world's problems. Then they thought that semen was a necessary fluid for a man. Let's not revert back to that thinking please. We're smarter than that.