Coming out
 

As most of you know if you've been hanging around for a while, I'm bisexual. I'm married, and we are in (for lack of a better turn of phrase) a polyamorous relationship with another couple. (More questions about that in another thread.)

The only people who know about this besides ratbastid (my hubby) are my sister and my good friend Lesley.

It feels so weird to be hiding this side of myself, and I've been wondering lately about whether I should come out to other people. On one hand, it would feel really good to be known for who I really am and not have to hide anything. On the other hand, I'm chicken about how some people (mostly family) would react. On the other other hand, do I have some political responsibility to be "out" and visible so people know that g/l/b/etc people exist and are okay? (Most of my friends are pretty liberal, it's mostly my rural MN family I'm thinking about here.) On the OTHER other other hand, our umfriends are both teachers, and they're pretty selective about who they're "out" with. I don't know if my being out might affect them - the amount of time we spend together could take on a distinctly different light if people knew I was bi and they know she's bi.

Anyhow, the whole thing makes my head spin. There are some people I'm really close to (some of our friends, my mom, my aunts) that it feels like lying not to tell. There are other people (my boss, some of our less-close friends) that I don't really care if they know or not. And there are some people I'd rather not know - my Dad.

Any advice?

I think that you answered your own question, in your last paragraph. Tell those that you are comfortable with, and will support you emotionally. Do not tell those whose business it is none of, nor those that will create emotional stress for you. If, however, you and your "umfriends" (I like that) share mutual aquaintances, you may want to clear it with them first. Being teacher's and all, blah, blah,blah, you already know where I'm going with this.

Damn. Smart. Pretty. Redhead (sometimes). And now bi. I'm gonna come out there and kick Ratbastid's ass for getting to you first. ;) JK, but remind him for me what a lucky sumbitch he is...K?

Why do you feel like it's lying? I am not being critical, just curious. I don't feel that I need to tell even my close friends what I do or do not do when it comes to my sex life. I don't ask about thiers either. If I choose to be in to S&M, bondage, same sex, or orgies that is my business and the business of my partner(s). I am not saying that its bad to be open about that stuff but if it will make you or someone else uncomfortable then I would just leave it alone. But that is just my thoughts and they may not be right for you. Hope you find a solution.

I'm with forsaken. If my family or friends knew my (or my wife's) sexual proclivities, they'd just look at us funny (and anyway, I wouldn't want my mom and dad to then feel compelled to explain their sex life to me).

Also, I know that this isn't just about sex, but that is how most would view it. Sometimes, irregardless of the truth, you have to play to the mindset of the crowd.

go with your guts, girl. i know it hurts to keep things that are important to you inside.

I feel someones sex life is a very personal thing. Only the priveleged should be allowed a glimpse :)

+1 for the 'caution' vote.

I've never been much of an agreer with the whole dramatic coming-out thing. Whilst I understand and respect it in principle, I feel that in practise it should be done with care and forethought, and only when 'necessary'. What defines 'necessary' is of course personal...I'm just reserved and cautious by nature, usually.

I dont think you have any political responsibility to be out.

The system that makes people feel unsure if they can be true to people anout who they are has a responsibility to be changed, knocked down.

The current furore over gay marriage, for example, is dispicable, the people who oppose it should be mocked, laughed at, ridiculed and made to see themselves for the fools they are... but thats another story.

You should just do what you feel you want to, there shouldnt be any political element, you dont owe it to anyone else to come out - I mean, I have never done anything like this, but it was kind of opposite, cos my mum became gay like 2 years ago... and she was really unsure about coming out to me, but I already knew a long time before she even told me... I dont know if that is a common experience, but the people you are closest too probably have a good chance of knowing already.

And if people cant accept who you are, its their problem, although admittedly it can effect you

I agree with StormBerlin here. I don't thinks it's necessary for everyone to know exactly what you do in your bedroom. However, if it would make you feel more comfortable to tell certain people who you know you can trust, then go ahead and tell them. :)

My experiences belong to those who are there to share them with.

Sure, I can share a funny anecdote about what happened when I was hijacked, but there is no obligation for me to share my life with my parents, my brother, my boss, or my friends.

Full disclosure of my life isn't something I'd do lightly, and honestly I don't have things in my life that would make things as potentially awkward as this secret might.

For your own situation, all I can advise is that you take care and realize the consequences of both acting and failing to act. I can offer my sympathy, tell you my view on what I would do in a somewhat similar situation, and that's about it. Good luck.

Heh, "gay marriage" is not something that should be sought after as it is a step backwards. Refer to this thread as this isn't really the appropriate forum for this topic. :P

Lurkette: Don't feel the need to advertise your sexuality to all who will hear -- it's a small part of who you are and some people have trouble understanding that (i.e. parents). If you don't feel comfortable telling someone, they probably don't need to know.

I offer my support :icare:

Do you give support for gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered folks if/when your conservative family brings it up? If they never do, would you? If you would speak in their favor to to your family, I think that'd be integrity enough.

I'm old enough and cynical enough to believe that truth is a medicine not suited to all ailments. Frankly, polite society has functioned largely by muffling truth, for thousands of years. The question is, what's best for your family, and you? If you feel that concealing your sexuality would be best for your family, and you are alright with doing it, do so. But if doing so seems increasingly distasteful -- what we're really talking about here is you being true to yourself, not to anyone else or to an ideal -- then you may have to come out. Because contact with your family will become more and more difficult, less and less pleasant.

i totally understand your dilema. i'm bisexual as well, and i have only told one of my friends and my boyfriend. and i feel like if a conversation comes up about sex with my friends that it's dumb i'm not telling them. but at the same time i'm sure it'll make things weird with some of them. plus, i'm in a relationship, so it's not like i'm really looking anyways. and does it really even matter? i mean, if i'm only fucking one boy now does it matter you i'm attracted to? but then i think, like you, that maybe it is important to let people know that there are g/l/b, particularly bisexuals, out and about in my little town. i don't know. furthermore, i somewhat believe that a person's sexuality is fairly plastic, and i don't know if it even make sense to bother defining my attractions outside of a person to person basis. i guess i didn't really help, but i know where you're at anyways. good luck. xoxo

Raeanna74 and I are swingers as well, so we completely understand what you mean, and know the situations you can find yourself in. We keep it to ourselves. Coworkers don't know, family doesn't know (save for her brother and his wife, who's already bi), and the friends that know, we play with. It is most likely in your best interest to keep it quiet. This lifestyle is NOT looked upon in a favorable light by the general population.

Heather & I think that more couples would benefit, but that's personal opinion. You'll do better the fewer people that know about it. The ones that already do need to be sworn to secrecy. You'll also need to develp little "stories" about where you are, and how do you know these people? We've run in to that, so just a little heads up, especially if you start seeing any other people in addition to the couple you're already playing with.

Re: Coming out
 

OTGH (On The Gripping Hand, cf Niven and Pournelle)


<center>To thine own self be true</center>

You have no basic responsability to anyone you don't wish to. If you're not willing to take the crap which would flow to you if you outted yourself, you would be wise to keep it in camera.

It may be necessary, though. It might well turn out to hurt MORE to tell people who really shouldn't know.

There are times when you have to blend in with society or be hounded. Rub blue mud in your belly button when the others do, say what they expect you to say, and keep the Eleventh Commandment.

I'm in the same boat. I am bisexual, but I don't broach the topic. Doing so would isolate myself and make people uncomfortable for no good reason. But if people are talking about it anyway (and most certainly saying things like, "Bisexuality doesn't exist" or "you're either straight or gay"), then I'll throw in my two cents.

If your family starts saying "Swingers go to hell." Then politely inform them that hell is where you are going.

After talking with some lesbian friends of ours, a straight-guy friend said, "You know, if you are a minority, you won't be rejected socially if you are apathetic about that fact. If [insert lesbian names] were to be in everyone's face and saying, "I'm lesbian, does that make you uncomfortable?!?!" then they would only be friends with other lesbians.

I disagree that it is apathy that saves, but that it's realizing that sexuality is not a 'big deal'. Sexuality is a part of a person, but it is not the defining characteristic. Yes, it sucks to not be completely open about all of you, but pushing the subject intentionally is just not very modest.

Modesty is a conspiracy of silence, so only play your cards when someone's ignorance is insulting you.

lurkette asked me about this offline this afternoon... Guess it's time for me to weigh in.

I disagree completely with those who have said, basically, that sexuality is only a little part of who you are. Sexuality is central to who you are. Everywhere you go, you carry your sexuality with you. You're more or less a slave to it most of the time. And I think if you're hiding it or being suppressed about it, it's going to have suppressive effects on the rest of your life.

Now. All that said, I think we're dealing with two very different things. On one hand, there's coming out. Letting people know you're bi. I think most people these days (including your family, and probably including my family) could handle that just fine.

On the other hand, there's letting people know we're having an affair with our best friends. That's a harder thing to have people understand. Your sister gets it because she plays similar games with her friends. I'm very surprised our friend Lesley was okay with it (though I'm not entirely sure she is 100% okay). I'm pretty sure my parents couldn't understand that. My brother could, maybe. Do you really think your mom could? I'm not so sure.

Don't know if this helps any, but it's my two cents.

I'm in the same place as you are pretty much. I almost feel resentful that I know I can't trust some/many people to be cool about what hubby and I do.

I'm bisexual, married, and hubby and I are swingers. My brother and his wife are vaguely aware of our relationship status. They're cool with it. As a matter of fact my sister-in-law is Bi too and my brother says "You're an adult. It's your choice what to do with you life. It's none of their (our parents) business what you do." He doesn't tell them what we do. We don't give details where we're going or what we're doing. We also don't ask many people to babysit who aren't aware of what we do. I do keep things quiet when related to the parents of the children I watch though 3 out of 6 of the parents I've dealt with in the past year are swingers as well (Two of them, we found out about their lifestyle AFTER I'd babysat for them - Cool) I feel in my position to have "deviant" sexual appitites might give people reason to question my responsibility with regards to children. Of course my sexual lifestyle will never have anything to do with the children I care for or my sense of responsibility to them. It's just that I know people nowadays can't/don't completely understand and so I don't risk spreading the knowledge around. I don't think some people could ever really understand the complexities of our relationship without being there tried it. I wouldn't have until I tried it. It's like looking into a fish bowl from the outside versus the inside - totally different look to things.

I just share with those that I know I can trust to at least not judge. Otherwise I don't share. It's my personal/sexual life and not everyone needs to or has a right to know what I do with it. You wouldn't share with everyone you know that you enjoy spankings during sex if that was your thing. But you'd still enjoy it. It's not lying. It's personal. Anyone who asks that you can't trust or don't want to tell - they just plain don't need to know. You can simply tell them that it's personal and you'd like to keep it that way. I don't see anything wrong with not "coming out". It's not like I'm living any different than I would if I "came out". I'd live the same.

I don't think you owe it to yourself to come out and tell them point-blank. You know what your indentity is, telling or not telling isn't going to change it.

Where there is a chance for uncomfortable surroundings, maybe leaving it alone is ok? You're not "lying", you're just realizing that not everyone needs to know everything about everything. Some people's spheres of happiness depend on some consistency... and if you pop their happy-bubble, you're only creating problems which may (as soemone else pointed out) outweigh the benefit garnered from outing yourself.

Good luck, lurkette. We love ya. :)

Thanks, hon. Love y'all back :icare:

well, i guess it's more a question of whether you're actively hiding it or not. I agree with ratbastid, sexuality is a huge part of your being, but it shouldn't need to weigh in all the time, it shouldn't matter, in terms of acceptance.

If you feel you are actively hiding your sexuality, perhaps it would be best to stop. this doesn't mean coming out and telling everyone, and proclaiming it loud and proud. in fact, don't, it seems self-defeating in a way. but, if someone approaches you and asks, there's no reason to lie about it. If this is what you're already doing...well..uh..keep on....boy, that lost its eloquence real quick

How do you feel you are hiding who you are?

I think it's less that I feel I'm hiding than that I don't feel free to express myself - there are times when I'd like to say something (like the other week at dinner with our whole gang of friends, we were talking about crushes and I didn't feel like I could talk about the crush I have on a female friend) but feel like I can't/shouldn't. I mean, there are plenty of times when we censor ourselves (like not saying geez those pants make you look fat) but somehow this feels different - it's less about expressing an opinion than about sharing a part of myself that is pretty essential to who I am. It's a huge relief to be able to talk about my/ratbastid's relationship with D&S with the 2-3 people who know about it. It's something that's really important that's going on in my life, and to have to hide it from most people makes me a little sad. That's a whole other kettle of fish, though (the polyamory thing, vs. just the bisexuality thing, which seems tame and normal in comparison).

Anyhow, I think whoever said this is a case-by-case thing is right: if I feel comfortable sharing it with one person, and uncomfortable sharing it with someone else, then I should tell the first person but not the second. I'm comfy with that - I have a pretty good feel for who among my circle of friends will freak out and who will say "yeah, and...?" The real issue is with my mom and my favorite aunt. I share nearly everything with them, they're real "coaches" for me in growing and developing as a person, and to have to hide this from them because I think they'd freak out really puts a lid on my relationship with them in some way. I feel like up till now, I've been totally open, intimate, raw with them, and now there's this piece I have to keep hidden, and it feels deceptive. I'm not so much worried about my mom - she's already clued in to the "bi" thing, but my aunt is a fairly Christian person (though one of the loving ones, not the judgmental kind) and I hate to think this might put up an even bigger wall than the "I'm hiding something" one I've got up right now. Then again, she was pretty open-minded about my (then) long-haired, ear-pierced hippie boyfriend (who's now clean-cut ratbastid, whom she adores), my purple hair, my brother's skateboarding, etc. But those are all appearance things, and this is an identity thing. And a sex thing. Danger danger!!!

Anyhow, ramble ramble ramble. I guess this isn't an easy thing to deal with, but all the advice so far has been really appreciated. I really do love you guys.

Here's my take on the situation, for what it's worth.

My opinion has always been, what ever goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults is their own business. but, not everyone shares that opinion, which presents your dilema.

From what little I know about you, you've had some sadness in your life recently and probably do not need any more. I would hate to see you get judged by people you thought were friends because you do something that makes you happy, but they don't agree with. I understand that you don't want to hide things from people, but that may have to be the case.

It's unfortunate that we live in "The land of the free and the home of the brave" and are able to do anything we want but, "ohh, not that. That's immoral"

In the end I can't make the decision for you, but can support you to make the decision that makes you the happiest. I support your right to do whatever pleases you, Ratbastid and the couple you are dating.

If you were friends of mine and you told me about your lifestyle, I would not turn my back to you. I hope that means something. Unfortunately, that's all I can offer.

Who you calling clean-cut!? I'm still a bad boy, dammit!! ;-)

But it's true, she does adore me.

Thing is, she adores you too. This is just your thing you do, where you're afraid that some everybody will abandon you. You've ALWAYS thought that if people knew the "real truth" about you, they'd leave you. Even before there was any "real truth" for them to know, you thought that.

Give it up. She loves you however you are. Your mom too.

I don't understand this need to be open with people because I gess I never been that close to anyone.

I think you have grown as a person and that means if the people of your past cant keep up, you may have to move on to find new people who understand.

only liked minded or people who in the same group really care. Shoot I could see galaxygirl and I coming out to our family...this subby and he's my dom...We're here, we're BDSM-ers, get used to it...I don't think so. never the less, I told my sister-she doesn't think there's anything wrong with it-she still loves us to death, she just doesn't want to here about it...And thats it...Out of 8 siblings between us she the only one..about the national
average they use for the gay population..
I don't care about the sexual stuff that other adults partake in, if I like you, I like you period...the fact you do other stuff, just adds a feather to you...:)

PS...subby and I love the "CLOSET"