A hypothetical situation (umm...yeah...er, sure)
 

.

Do you love your wife?

Do you think you could make it work with her?

I think you both could do well with some marriage thearpy.

What does the mistress think about all of this? Does she know you are married? Would you want to be with a woman who would knowingly be with a man who is married? What would keep her from cheating on you?

Wow, that was a lot of questions...

seems to me that if she knows you're married and is still involved with her, what would stop her from cheating on you, as said above. this especially applies since she's "trust me on this, if you saw her, you'd want her" type of hot. guys would be all over her. plus, it seems like picking her would be like choosing lust over love.. which i dont believe in lasting too long. i guess, as averett asked, you have to ask yourself if you love your wife. i guess another thing you could ask yourself is whether you want a commitment to this mistress or your wife, or if you want a possibly short term relationship with this mistress.

This hot GF will eventually become very familiar to you and may become boring. If you are not in love with your wife therer is not much point in sticking around other than to be near your kid. If you stick around and your relation ship is shitty but you stick to it it may e worse for the kid than if you did not live together. If you go with the GF and get bored after a couple years she could sue you for child support even though theey are not your kids. Something to think about. If the GF is not so bright you will probably tire of her even though the sex is good. I know I can't be in a relationship woth a chick that does not stimulate me intulectually. Think about why you and your wife got together initially and see if there is any way to rekindle the feeling you used to have for her. strange sex is good but the strangeness will soon wear off and you will be going from one relatinship to another looking for the right one. You may already have it and just not know it. Think hard before you make a final decision for your sake and your kid's.

After read the things you wrote about your lover, you only seem to be interested/attracted to her sexually. You don not seem to have any respect for her as a person ie. her bad choices of her ex BF and husband, she's had FOUR kids before she is 30 and is now divorced, she isn't smart, etc. I too think you are in lust and not love. Her person life seems unstable with her ex's. I'd steer clear. It sounds like if they find out about you, it will not only ruin your life, but your wife and child's. Good luck in whatever you decide.

A year from now with the mistress, how many hours a day can you have sex versus how many hours will you be talking with her? I think your brain will explode before long.

Since your wife seems to be working to keep things going, I believe you need to work on that.

Also "crazy ex-husband" plus "crazy ex-boyfriend" doesn't give you much credit. She sounds dangerous. Cut her off.

.

How long have you been married? Being together for over 10 years is a lot of time invested. Sounds like you dated from school.

Boring is a realitive term. Boring in bed? Boring in general?

Is you wife unwilling to try anything new? Why? Talk to her about it.

Think of you kid. Do you live in a state where the father can get custody? Do you want custody?

Gee, crazy ex-husband, crazy ex-boyfriend. Sounds like she is a little crazy too. Be careful of women who knowingly date married men...

.

Dude, just think of alimony for how ever long/child support until 18+. I had a similar situation, before I was married, no sex/touching invovled. I made the right decision to stay with fiance now wife of 8 years, and 3 more children. You could make it work with you wife if you wanted to.

If you must leave your wife, leave her because you can't work it out, but be prepared to help raise your daughter. Don't take that step lightly. You are no longer alone.

If you must leave your wife, don't do it solely for the mistress. Have a good time with her, sure, but don't put your eggs in that basket, or you'll just find yourself in another difficult situation.

The most important person in this story is your daughter.

Also, what are the divorce laws in your state? How would the property/ies you have with your current wife get divided? As far as the mistress goes, consider the same. She has 4 kids, if she gets married to you, and it doesn't work ou t, and it's community property, you've gotten screwed twice on divorces.
Don't make any permanent decisions right now. Call the marriage counsellour, ask for the name of an individual therapist, and see him/her;that way, you can help yourself figure things out more.
Be semihonest with your current wife, say something along the lines of "I don't think things are working out for us right now, and I think we should sleep in seperate rooms." Continuing to sleep in the same bed with her everynight is dishonest (granted, so is cheating on her, but it's all a matter of degrees, and you gotta cover your ass).

Divorce the wife, enjoy the girlfriend, but don't get too serious. Go play for a while, sew some oats

.

I really think you need to make this into two decisions, not one. It shouldn't be about which woman you are choosing, but about deciding how to make you life happy. Everyone who has said so so far is right: your attraction to your mistress is superficial, and though it brings you pleasure, it is an unstable situation that puts not just you, but her, your wife and child in a sticky situation. Your first decision should be: am I happy with my wife? If the answer is no, obviously the relationship needs to be reevaluated, and its clear that your relationship with your mistress has made you understand that there is more out there. So if you know you are unhappy with your wife, I suggest marriage counseling, as someone already has. Give this a shot, at least a month's worth, maybe twice a week, make sure you are expressing to your wife WHY you are uncomfortable in the relationship. You said that you've tried marriage therapy, but if you're not honestly expressing what problems there are and she's not listening (mind you I'm sure she might have complaints, too, this isn't totally about you), you have a problem. Have you tried just having a sit down discussion with her about problems? If she isn't receptive to your problems, leave: things aren't going to get better on their own.

Decision number two: this only applies if you decide to leave, but you need to decide what kind of relationship you are going to pursue with girl #2. In my honest opinion, she sounds manipulative and your feelings toward her to not seem very solid. DO NOT LET HER PUSH YOU TO MARRY HER. She seems like she is in a tricky situation - you mentioned that yourself, and she may just be looking for support, especially considering her choices in men - hostile boyfriend, hostile husband, and no offense, but man #3 (you) married money maker.

If you decide to leave your wife, don't do it for the mistress' sake, do it for you. If you are looking for someone who satisfies more than your wife can do, look for someone else. I gotta say, your mistress does not sound like a promising relationship at all. I'm sure the sex is great, but that is no basis for a relationship, much less a marriage, and you should be looking for someone who can fulfill your sexual life as well as your intellectual and emotional life.

You're still young, you have a lot of choices. Don't limit yourself to such a one or the other situation.

I have no advice except to remember the kid. That doesn't mean you neccessarily have to stay with the mother or whatever... just make that kid a priority in whatever happens. And good luck man, this is rough.

.

I'm glad you're deciding to end things with the mistress.... It probably won't be easy! But as the saying goes.... Youve made your bed, now you have to lay in it...

Just tell her straight up. You dont want a relationship with her. You took the chance with this, if she makes life difficult for you, you'll have to deal with it.

Shitty? Yup. But then again, the whole situation is. You knew that already though ;)


I don't think there is any reason to flame you. I don't agree with cheating, and I dont think others do either. But you're seeking help. Sometimes we all just need somebody to talk about things with. If that happens to be a forum of strangers, so be it.

A clean ending with the mistress? Hmm, let's see.

Exactly how crazy is the ex-husband or the ex-boyfriend? Like are they stalk-you-and-cut-out-your-heart type crazy or are they punch-you-in-the-face type crazy? Because if you think you can get them involved without causing yourself too much grief then that would give you a plausible out with the mistress. If she thinks you were 'scared off' by an ex- then there might be less problems than if you were to just dump her.

Of course this would just be another lie and if the mistress ever found out you'd probably be in for a world of hurt. Just a thought.

I'm a little late with this, but I just think this is total bullshit on the part of the mistress. WTF? Did she forget about the crazy ex's of hers? Maybe you could be together without hiding it from your (ex) wife, but not w/out hiding it altogether. She's putting all the pressure on you, which is a bad sign.

As far as a clean break, I think you gotta come clean with your wife. That both disarms the mistress and relieves your guilt somewhat. If you're really committed to staying, and you make it work, the guilt will get to you eventually. Head it off by confessing.

I would confess with a lot of emphasis on WHY you felt the need to cheat, as far as her being a prude. You gotta be fair to yourself and get something out of it for you in exchange for staying. Let her know, in a non-hateful way, that she needs to meet you halfway on the sex thing.

WARNING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE: Do NOT mention the thing about her not orgasming!!! Mention everything else, but not that. Doing so will make her feel like something's wrong with her, she'll focus on it, and the problem will get worse, not better.

Instead, focus on her willingness to try new things. Once she loosens up, work on getting her to masturbate for you and work towards an orgasm that way. Don't make her fell self-conscious, that'll guarantee she never has one.

Just my $.02. Best of luck.

very good points raised so far.
I agree that you should tell your wife about the affair if you wish to restart your marriage. Trust and communication is key, and confessing would be a start. Once you decide to try to patch things up with the wife, go all out.

Bored? Start behaving like a new couple. Do new things together, both in and out of bed. take a second honeymoon. :D

Your mistress is a total nutbomb. She thrives on chaos and she WILL wreck your life. She has a crazy ex-husband, a crazy ex-boyfriend, and 4 kids. She is obviously crazy herself. She doesn't even have any money. A healthy, sane woman would not have all this insanity in her life, and would definately not be going out with a married man with a one year old daughter! Dude, are you stupid? Run away from her as fast as you can. Get serious about therapy, get serious about the commitment you made to your wife on the day you married her, and start really loving your baby daughter (by staying committed to her mother), and get rid of your romantic but dumb ideas about "being in love." Dude, nobody stays "in love" forever. Real love is when you stand by the commitment you made to her even when you no longer feel like it. This society is so fucked up, and you are a perfect example. Lasting love, real love, is based on a thought, not a feeling. Real love is a choice you make, not a feeling you get. So get real, stay away from this looney mistress, get serious about therapy, and put your baby daughter first!

I'm glad you decided the mistress is not the prime choice in this situation. I'd like to add, though, in case if you ever come to a decision point like this again, that you should keep your kid in mind. Divorce is not something to be taken lightly. While it may be amicable with you and your wife, divorce can be traumatizing to a kid.

Since you've talked a lot about divorcing your wife, maybe reverse that conversation and see how she takes it. Instead, talk about not divorcing her and noticing things you may have taken for granted about your wife. Try to warm up your mistress to the thought that maybe you're better off with the wife instead.. The fact that she has four kids and two whacky Exs indicates to me that no matter how you deal with this, it probably won't end nicely or easily. But maybe, just maybe, you can get her to realize what's going on and she might just bow out gracefully.
**Added**
Also, keep in mind she is your mistress afterall, not your wife. You have every right to go the opposite root and leave her high and dry. You made your vows to your wife, not her.
********

And I think you need to come clean with your wife. Even if you had protected sex with the mistress, your wife still has a right to know she may be at risk for STIs and whatnot because of your actions. This is about her physical health.

When I first read your post, I was immediately reminded of Shakespeare. Though I'm hardly a fan, I do like these sonnets.
Sonnet #130: My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun
Someone's analysis of this sonnet
"And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare."
"But Shakespeare ends the sonnet by proclaiming his love for his mistress despite her lack of adornment, so he does...embrace the fundamental theme...total and consuming love."


Sonnet #154: The little love-god lying once asleep
Commentary
"Love's fire heats water, water cools not love."
"Hence he 'proves' that 'love's fire' can always 'heat water' but water cannot 'cool love.'"

Congratulations on your decision, I wa sholding my breath hoping you'd stick with the wife.

Ending should be easy. Tell her no and wait it out. The question now is, will you ever tell your wife?Honesty is important in marriage or any relationship for that matter so...best of luck with your marraige, it seems to be getting on the right track.

Ps. How much money do you make? You can send your wife to one of those spa things, those professionals can really work magic with looks if you really need a little shallow indulgence once in a while. :p Just a suggestion.

I've got a friend who can take care of the mistress. What kind of car does she drive? Disc or drum brakes? I'll have him contact you.

/me stomps on dead horse

Glad ya came to the TFP, mypro. We've got some really compassionate, intelligent people haunting these boards.

But right now, you've got me. While I'm no Averett, or Motdakasha, I do have two cents... and they're shiny!

That's supposed to make you laugh, btw. With all the stress you're undoubtedly dealing with, I thought that would be appreciated. But then, I'm also not funny at all, so who knows?

Absolutely come clean with your wife. Three reasons:
1.) She deserves it.
2.) If you have any intention of continuing your marriage, you need to know how she feels, and she needs to know how you feel. Therapy's been mentioned, but before you go that route, I recommend a sit-down. If you’re both adults, a facilitator isn't necessary during your first real discussion.
3.) Perhaps her response will surprise you. You said you were attracted to her intelligence; give her an opportunity to exercise it. Let her make a rational decision and stick with it, even if that means you're in a world for a while. Could be, your confession rekindles facets of the relationship you never really appreciated before.

How to get rid of the ex? Quickly. Be kind, be sincere and be honest: "I thought this would help me, and it doesn't. The sex is great, but I must admit to myself that a relationship can't be built on orgasms, and I don't think we have anything else that would bind us together."

Good luck, man.

You might want to remember that the wife may get upset at his too. She is a human being with feelings. Let her air out her feelings without jumping in all the time. But be sure this is what you want to do. I know when I broke up with a long time girl friend, I told her the truth. We didn't talk for a while after that but we did eventually become friends again. There is going to be a lot of crying on her part and possibly some on yours too. But be sure to get out all of your problems, so that she knows what you are dealing with. Tell her the things that found you accepting the advances of another woman, don't make it a blame it all on her thing. It has to be positive to help in the end.

But always remember the little one. This is going to traumatize her a little if she has to see or hear any of this. For the little one's sake try and get a friend to watch her for a while when you have this discussion. Remember a little girl is always going to need a Daddy not just a father.

As for the mistress, I agree do this quickly, you can always tell the truth here as well. Tell her the sex is great but you want to give the marriage another try, especially for the child. Also tell her how all the sneaking around does not make you feel good, how you are worried about the 2 crazy ex's and what might happen if they found out, etc. Be a man and tell her straight out its over.

Anyway I hope I have helped in a small way.

I've been digesting the posts you've left, as well as the replies logged by everybody who took the time and cared enough, and I realized that was exactly the point....

Take the time and care enough.

Whatever your reasons, you've landed yourself in a situation which comes with its own little world of hurt and guilt. You're going to be there for a while - and in the doghouse with your wife for some time after the hurtin' stops - but what everybody has said so far is true: make sure that your daughter isn't a casualty of your marital problems.

Come completely clean with your wife, and remember to accept full responsibility for your choices; your marital problems are something which both you and your wife are responsible for, but your infidelity is your own bag, baby! By owning up for this(especially to your wife), you'll be showing her that while there are problems, you're a big enough person to shoulder whatever's needed on your part to resolve them.

Good luck. I don't know your wife, and I only know you from your writing, so this could go in any of a number of directions. Just remember to be there for your daughter no matter what, however this ends up.

I've been in a similar situation, but without children on either side. I chose the other woman, and to be honest it has been very difficult for me. I hurt my wife very badly and she honestly did nothing to deserve it. If I could, I'd go back and really make an effort to work things out w/ my now ex-wife. I wish I could have realized how unhappy I'd become in my marriage and dealt with it rather than running from it. My marriage may still have ended, but I owed it to myself and to her to have at least tried to work things out - I didn't and now I deeply regret it.

before you end it with the mistress come clean with your wife... it will be better for her to hear it from you then the other woman...

I can't really help you with your dilemma, but just to put in my two cents worth on the affair: don't flagellate yourself over it. I think that what you did was not only understandable, not only OK, but probably a good thing.

We owe it to ourselves and to those around us to try to be the best people that we can be, emotionally, spriitually, and yeah sexually.

Yes people are naturally monogamous, but that doesn't mean we have to drive that into the ground, OK? People really weren't made to have just one sexual partner in their entire life. To do so negates the gift of sexuality which is part of the gift of life.

(This doesn't apply if you're a Christian, but in that case the problem is defying God, which is another matter.)

I'll bet if you look inside you'll see that the goodness of the sex in the affair was not just physical pleasure but an increased sense of joy in your own self. That's only got to help your future partners, whether your current wife or someone else.

In my own case, I've been married a very long time, and we are not sexually compatible. I had an affair a few years back and it was one of the best things I've ever done, a very life-affirming thing for both me and my partner. I don't regret a moment.

And jeez, your wife is not orgasmic. We weren't meant to go to our graves not giving even one woman an orgasm. But on the plus side, I would think that with doing research and consulting experts and whatever you ought to be able to fix that orgasm thing with your wife eventually. After which she'll follow you around forever with a dreamy look on her face, lol. No seriously I bet that would really help your marriage turn into something really cool.

Good luck to you.

I've read every response to this thread, and I commend everyone who responded. I would agree, for the most part, except for one issue - coming clean with your wife.

Is it the ethical and moral thing to do? Of course. Is it the right thing to do? Perhaps not.

By dumping your mistress and confessing to your wife, you could very well end up alone. Your marriage is hanging by a thread now - can it survive another trauma? Your wife may head straight to the nearest, best, ball-bustingest lawyer she can find if you confess to an affair.
<i>Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.</i>

Legally, she would have a very large advantage over you - but that's not what I meant.

Right now - if you dump your g/f and commit to making it work with your wife - your marriage may survive. If you add the knowledge of betrayal to the mix, how can that help things? Maybe it will reduce your guilt, but this isn't only about you.

In general - yes - it's better to get everything out in the open and get a fresh start. But in this case, I'm not so sure. <b>Mypro</b> - you know your wife better than all of us do - are you sure you know how she'd react if you come clean? You'd better, if that's your plan.

If I were you, i'd keep a tab on how many great things I'd have to do for her to make up for the affair, and do them all - then do them all again. And keep on doing them.

Good luck to all three of you.

I agree. Not only that, but if the mistress goes off the deep end and starts stalking him or something, the wife can be there to help him fend her off. Might even be some (re)bonding with the wife involved.

I disagree. I think that's a rather selfish approach to the situation. Why would you withhold important information possibly about her health (STIs)? It sounds like the only thing you're thinking about is making sure he still has someone to bump uglies with. There's no question in my mind that he should probably end it with the mistress seeing as how it's only physical and she's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Honestly, if the wife is not willing to patch things up with him, then maybe he's better off starting from scratch... alone. He's given her enough credit in the noggin department to make me believe she's probably mature enough to handle the next blow.

Honestly, I think the first step in making it work with the wife is being completely honest. Lies, as we've seen already, create a rather depressing downward spiral and it sounds like he's looking to get out of it, not deeper.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Before I hand out advice - I try to look at <i>all</i> of the possible consequences of each action.

How would you feel if <b>Mypro's</b> next post was something along the lines of "Well - I took everybody's advice - I confessed the affair to my wife, and now she's left me, won't return my calls, and is sueing for sole custody and outrageous alimony due to my infidelity."?

I just told him he'd better have a pretty good idea of how she's going to react before opening that can of worms.

Your health concern is justified - he could take care of that by being tested himself.

Like I said before. <b>motdakasha</b>, confessing might be the ethical and moral thing to do, but the marriage might have a better chance if he makes up for it in other ways. Guilt is a great motivator.

Let's agree to disagree.

.

You've managed to get me out of lurker status, just to chime in my $0.02...so here goes...

You said that you love your wife, but that you aren't totally IN love with her. An inelegant way of putting it, but I can't think of a better way, and it does get the point across. I do understand the feeling; though I've never married, I have been in long (5+ yrs) relationships. Part of the appeal of the mistress is the physical aspect, which you seem to not be getting at home. Did the subject of physical intimacy ever come up in your couseling sessions? If not, that might be a good way to add an advantage to staying with your wife. Also, if she is having problems enjoying her half of it, you might try adding in something like a vibrator to the bedroom. She may initially be adverse to the idea, but I personally have known women who have problems reaching orgasm any other way.

My best advice to you is to seriously ponder the following - Would you be happy, or even content, living with this women if she were only your flatmate rather than a wife? Is she witty enough to keep up in conversation? Is she tidy enough (or messy enough) for you? If the honest answer is yes, then stick with her. You love the woman, and love, even if it lacks the physical passion, can be a very, very hard thing to find. I have ex-es that I do still love, and that still love me (I think). Just because we couldn't work out the physical aspect (or, in one instance, the living arrangements, and little stuff that just got to me. Yes, I know, I can be a bit petty) doesn't mean that I've given up on their companionship.

As for coming clean...you should probably do so. Yes, it may hurt her, but you will forever feel guilty if you don't, and it is always worse to hear it from someone else. However, (and suggesting this right after confessing is a bad idea) if the only aspect of your relationship that is lacking is the physical, you might consider joining a swingers club. Living with someone, loving them, and raising a child with them doesn't mean that you can't still have great sex, whether with that person or with someone else.

Stay with wife. The kid will be a lot happier. Work out your problems, dont run from them. And from what i see the only problems you got are in ters of intimacy. If you feel bored, really get her to try something else. If/when she likes it, she will want more, and then itll work out. Plus this whole not pretty thing.. Im sure she can get attractive enough for you. I dont mean to sound weird, but just let her pamper herself, hairdresser/gym/clothes and thats gonna be a lot better.

Dont run from your problems, and dont get involved with someone thats gonna cause you problems. Do it for the kid.

Staying together, and not telling her about the affair is not right. She has to know, its the right thing to do.

YourNameHere does have a point... and you think it would probably end your marriage if you tell her... but i still stand by my initial point that it would be better for her to hear it from you... atleast that way you would be able to discuss it...

I remember hearing someone on a talk show bring this point up. A lot of time people just tell the other person just to relieve their guilt. Why not just keep this part to yourself and this be your pennance for the affair. Always having to live with the guilt and knowing what it would do to her if she found out, will make you think more about getting yourself into this situation next time. Your point is valid too, you would not want to know. Just patch it up and you hold all the guilt, don't share it just to ease your mind.

You've made your bed, and now you're having trouble lying in it. That's all.

Tell her. Take your lumps--even if that means you end up alone. Can you honestly say you still deserve a relationship after all of this mess you've caused? Do you want your daughter raised in a house where the relationships are founded on lies?

Maybe your wife deserves more credit than you're giving her, though. In fact, maybe she always did. Maybe if you come clean, REALLY apologize, and make sure she really sees you've come to your senses, MAYBE she'll be willing to work things out with you.

The only advice I care to give is that whatever you decide to do, do it with thought and do it quickly. Your life is not the only one being affected by this; i.e. your daughter.

Get a divorce, pay child support, and learn to deal with the realities of getting married when you're not ready.

Dude, I have been in your shoes. Want to hear something real fucked up, I decided to stay with my wife and do what it takes to make it work. When I told the "other" it was over she wanted to fuck one last time. Guess who had stopped taking the pill? 10 months later she shows up at my front door, baby in tow, and my wife answers the door. Time to tally up the score, one divorce, 3 child support payments for my three daughters, and 1 child support payment to my "son".

Bottom line, if you're having an affair where sex is the primary reason (and don't lie to yourself, it probably is), that raw intensity will fade over time. Drop the girlfriend and seriously assess your relationship with your wife. You can't, repeat can't do it with the girlfriend their to cloud the issue.

Do what is right for your kid. This baby depends on you. Single mother families are much more difficult for kids.

If you end up separating, I can't stress enough how important it is that you stay involved with your daughter's life. Child support/financial support is not enough. Be there for her through all of this. No matter what happens, make sure she'll be able to live through it all and end up okay.

You are married and you have a devoted wife AND a child.

That should be the end of it. And you need to cut off the affair.

Do yourself a favor and DO THE RIGHT THING.

I know this might sound strange but 99.9% probability of separation will probably change to 50% if you are upfront and genuinly sorry for "your" mistake.

We often commit to hard stances when we are only imagining a situation. That changes rapidly when it becomes a reality. The key thing here though is how real you are in wanting to keep the relationship and how hard you are prepared to work to make it work. Believe me you will have to work very hard at it to regain the trust and find a new way of working together.

Your lives together will probably change quite radically, maybe it should anyway.

Key question here thought is how much do you really want it to work. No half hearted efforts here, unless you are truly committed, if not then it would probably be best if you spent some time alone.

i wouldn't do that. all you'll end up is hurting your daughter eventually and a handful of oats strung together. ^_^

look inside yourself and do some work.
otherwise you'll continue messing up your life - and others'

AAAAAARGH, I am going to really try to resist the urge to be unkind here, so bear with me. I'm not one of those people who thinks you shouldn't judge... I think you MUST judge based on your standards, so here goes... Forgive me if I seem harsh, but I think reality is harsh... Here's the reality that I see.

You entered a contractual obligation to a person who has, based on your description maintained her part of the bargain. You, however, have not. Love is an interesting beast. You have control over that. Much much more so than many people like to pretend. You valued her in some fashion, for some reason when you chose to be with her. It's apparent, again from your description that she values you, and still loves you. I hate to hear that "selfless" love crap, it's all a lie. Love is the most selfish of all values. (I've ranted on that enough in other forums.) Look at the list of positives you've made. Really look at them. Then look at the list of negatives. I see bullshit laziness. Put some effort into the relationship. Be a man of integrity when it comes to your obligations. You've never made her orgasm? Practice more. Really. Take that woman to bed one night with nothing but her needs in mind. Forget your wants for a minute.. You REALLY want a good relationship and a happy marriage, it sounds like, so work at it. Get some counseling. Together, alone, whatever... Listen to her some. Why is she boring? because she spends her time supporting you and taking care of the baby you two have? I think I'd be pretty damned bored if I didn't take the time to do some things with my wife that she wants. Do I think sex outside of marriage is bad??? Hell no, but that's OUR agreement. A man of integrity is an honest man. You don't have to be nasty or brutal.

I've been married for 10 years now, been with her abut 2-3 years longer than that, and yes, we had some times when my love for her was not as strong as others. Right now, I'd have to say I love her more than ever, and it still grows. Why? because WE make the effort. You damned well knew you were wrong when you started the affair. You either divorce with some kind of cause, or you open up the relationship, but you certainly don't sneak around banging some dumb-ass hottie like a screen door just because she's got a nice rack and round ass. That's college crap you do when you're single. The fact of the matter is, if you don't already know this, you'll not likely EVER be happy. That lovely body isn't going to stay that way forever, but the dim bulb is. If you weren't sexually satisfied to begin with, then you made a poor choice in marriage, but those things can be changed. The trouble is it requires honesty... something your post makes you sound painfully short of.

Sounds like flame?? no, it's reality, get a grip.

and sorry again if it seems harsh, but you said you wanted honesty. I hope to the heavens and God of your choice that you really read it and understand. I hope the harshness does some good... for the sake of all involved.

Look, at the point that you are cheating on your wife and this is a real problem I really don't think you should stay with your wife. Tell her the truth and deal with it.

Stay Married , ME.

Divorce is to easy. Kick the mistress to the side and say Begone!

Try and talk things out with yer wifey. What makes her orgasim. Cause by golly ge if you cant make her. She is making herself do it. TALK about it.

YOU must put effort as well.

Anyways i didnt read all the posts. But i am sure people may have said the same thing.

Ask yourself which woman you are happier with when you're with her. There's no sure fire way to know if you leave your wife you'll regret it later so don't even try to find one.

However, if you're not happy, don't stay in a marriage for the kid. Your kid would want you to be happy and if it's with another woman, so be it. It's bull to say your kid would be happier if you were with your wife. What if your daughter has to watch you and your wife fight everyday and grow up in nothing but resentment and animosity?

I suggest a lot of soul searching and thinking on your part. I wouldn't say anything to your wife until you've made up your mind. Good luck. :)

I have read through the posts here. I have thought a lot about these issues, and studied what a variety of professional counselors say. The men in my family have always cheated, and it is very important to me to love my wife like I should.

I appreciate your willingness to commit to your marriage, mypro. I know the situation in your marriage is difficult and painful for you. Intimacy is important. Love is a choice though, as others posted. I'd like to add that in my marriage sacrificing to love my wife has proved to be worth doing.

As far as how to break up with your mistress, I'd say it depends. First of all, don't ever spend time alone with her again. Don't let yourself be in a situation with her where you can have sex with her. Sometimes, you'll want to do so, even if it means ruining everything. Think carefully about what the possible outcomes of breaking up with your mistress are. Plan for how to deal with them. For example, the ex's may be told that you raped her and they may try to find you and beat you up. They may just hear that you've hurt her feelings and assault your wife. Plan very carefully. I've seen awful things happen.

When you break up with your mistress, don't do anything complicated. Compliment her honestly. Be nice to her, even when she yells at you. Tell her you made a comitment to your wife and you are the kind of man who sticks to commitments, or something similarly focused on yourself. Make it clear to the mistress that even if your wife leaves, the relationship with her is over.

As far as your future with your wife goes, people have been disagreeing. I believe that sometimes it is morally necessary to hide an affair. The important thing is to start considering what is best for your wife. Don't base your decision on your feelings or what you'd want her to do for you if the roles were reversed. Don't act out of guilt or pride in your conquest. Decide what is best for your wife, to whatever extent you are able to do so. You shouldn't lie. But you could tell your wife that you're ashamed of your behavior during the period of turmoil in your relationship. Call yourself names, describe your faults accurately. Ask her, humbly, to forgive you. Don't go into more detail about what you did than will help her, even if you do tell her you cheated. Carefully avoid making comparisons or creating mental images. One way or another, you will be part of each other's lives for a long time. Be kind.

Whatever else you do, tell a counselor or wise friend about your situation. Get someone who knows you to help you do what you should. It's way to easy to cheat when noone can hold you accountable.
I really appreciate how open you've been mypro. It's hard. I hope you resolve this difficult issue. Please let us know what happens.

Ok I know that staying together for your daughter sake sounds like the right thing to do but take it from someone who had to live through a similiar situation at a very young age. I was 9 when my dad finally left, and me and my sisters were happy when he did. I know that a 9 year old has a little more understanding of what's happening than a 1 year old, but still. I'm not sure how bad your relationship is, you said it was bad before your daughter was born and has gotten worse since, so not sure if you fight a lot or what, but I know when i was little and my parents would fight and argue & my sisters and i would set in our rooms crying because we didn't know what was going on. After he moved out we had a better relationship with him, he payed his child support and we spent weekends with him and I think that we were happier after the divorce. Again I know a one year old won't have an understanding of that, so you do have to consider that as well.

As for your wife I do think she deserves to know about the affair, however I know that's your decision to make and yours alone. If your worried how she'll take it when you tell her, think how she'll take it if your mistress tells her first!!!!! Something to think about. At least if you tell her, you can try to talk things out with her. Even if she won't talk to you right away she may come around. If you don't tell her and you want to stay with her, I'd say that the sex thing can be solved. Just set down and talk to her about it. Have someone watch your daughter for the weekend, and if money allows spend the weekend in a hotel just the two of you. I know sex is a BIG part of a relationship but it's not everything.

If you tell your wife and she ends your marriage, or if you just decide you can't take it anymore, you just aren't IN love with her anymore I say just end it. There is no use in continuing to hurt you both, and wasting your lives away being unhappy. Life is to short. You mentioned that your wife wasn't super hot, and your mistress was, that your wife was smart, but your mistress wasn't. There is such a thing of a hot smart girl! I would say try to find someone that you find attractive, that you have great sex with, and who is smart and successful. There is such a woman:) Just try to find someone that makes you truely happy. :) Good luck with everything.

First of all most marriages/relationships that result from an affair have a 70% failure rate.

Most affairs last between 1-3 years

Most affairs end as a result of being found out.

I'm guessing this girl doesn't stick around too well. She may be hot but if she's your age and already had 4 kids and 2 relationships that are still hanging on such that you have to sneak around them - Then you are in for one hell of a ride.

They say that once a cheater always a cheater. I'm not saying anything about you but do you feel you can truely trust your mistress?

Also Don't EVER leave your wife FOR the mistress. It probably won't work. Most of the time - once you go through the stress of divorce and don't have the excitement of the "sneaking" and new person then the desire for the mistress will fade away too quickly.

Counseling not having worked before isn't necessarily an indication of it not working this time. You have a wife and a child. Stick around for the child's sake. If your wife is not an unfit mother and not causing you abuse and grief then she is worth staying together with.

Even if you can't go to couples counseling - go to counseling yourself. I was ready to leave my hubby only a couple years ago but after I expressed to him what I was feeling and seriously considering he kindof woke up. Started paying attention to me and my needs. We've had a lot of heavy duty conversations and both of us have made a lot of changes. Things are so much better you wouldn't believe the difference.

I agree with so much that has already been said.

As for ending your affair. It doesn't sound like you are that bad off in your marriage. Even if you don't get along as long as she isn't abusing then there is hope to reconcile. You have a child with this marriage - do you really want to jeapordize loosing your child? She could use this against you in court I believe saying you are unfit? If you want to be the father to your child I suggest that you cut things off with your mistress. Once you tell her the news the best route for you to take is "no contact". Otherwise you will be too tempted.

Good Luck. I hope things work out for you.

No problem there - in fact, I applaud your idealism and optimism, although I do not share it .

Whoever you love, go with her. Don't screw your kid over though. Either get custody or send the payments.

As far as the mistress goes: looks fade. Smarts and personality last forever.

Your wife sounds like the better partner other than the sex. Which suggests (a) improving the sex life or (b) coming to an arrangement.

I think one thing to ask yourself, if not your wife, is whether or not she loves you. Is she bending over backwards to save a means of financial dependence, or is it because she truly does feel for you. Its less difficult to spruce up the sex life, especially being so young, than it is to drastically alter the lives of 3 people.

Yeah, always make sure that you put your daughter first. I'd say that you should make this decision with the mistress totally out of your mind--because "no wife" is a much bigger deal to create than "yes mistress." Just leave the mistress part out of your dealings and thinking, and decide whether you want to be with your wife. Get a new marriage counselor, take a vacation, and fall in love with your wife again.

I agree. You are absolute scum. Not a flame, just agreement.

(curse) you for making your dick a higher priority than your daughter.

Your wife will be better off without you. After my father left my mother for a younger woman she spent two years miserable. Slowly she came out of it and is now better off physically, spiritually, intellectually and possesses self-esteem worthy of the great woman she is. I can only hope your wife will blossom similarly after ridding herself of some useless dead weight (you).

Tell her all about everything so she can go to a doctor and get tested. Just because you're not worried doesn't mean you're the "sharpest tool in the shed" either.

The reason for the harsh tone of this post is a combination of personal experience and your obvious (and stated) lack of guilt for messing with a variety of people's lives. I'll stop now, I really like it here and don't want to be banned over the likes of you. If any moderators read this post and think it should be deleted, I understand.

I couldn't read through all the posts, so if i repeat anything that someone else already said, i'm sorry. Think of it as confirmation. heh.

There are girls out there who are attracted to a guy because they are married. They find it challenging to try to get the guy to drop their wife. After that, they ditch the guy and find another challenge. Plus, this mistress could never fully trust you.. you're the guy who snuck around with another woman and then divorced your wife just to be with that woman.

Your wife may be plain jane, but from what you said, she sounds like she honestly wants things to work out. Of course, when she finds out you cheated on her, it may not work out.. if it does, man, you're lucky to have such an undrestanding wife.

Stay together for your kid. There's too many kids out there that have two dads or two moms. :(

i've read most everything posted here, and let me go ahead and throw in my opinion, short and sweet.

I agree that you should be upfront with your wife.

I also agree that your mistress is no good in the long run.

Your relationship with your wife is (hopefully) built with the ability to be able to truly TALK to one another. This is key.

Oh, and one more reason to be upfront: she WILL find out. it's just one of those things. better to be from you/now then to have it hit later.

I'm kinda worried, mypro hasn't posted since September 18. Hope he's doing OK...

Whatever you decide to do, I've only one piece of advice that I firmly believe in:

Never EVER stay together just for the sake of a child. A lot of people think that parents that hate each other's guts is better than divorced parents. This is definitely not true.

I don't think I'd pick either, to tell you the truth. The mistress sounds like way too much drama and sounds like it would be not so great in the long run.. but also day to day life in a marriage you're unhappy in is not great either.

I would say ditch the mistress and look into divorce, if that is what you want to do. Work out what you would need to as far as a seperation with your wife and go out on your own to find what you are really looking for. Find someone who won't pull you into their drama of a life and someone you are interested in for more than just their physical features...... and most of all take some time out for yourself and enjoy your "singleness" if you would call it that.

What is really important is being happy in life.. and it doesn't sound like either situation will come to that effect.

i'd like an update on what happened in the end as it's been several months since this thread was first started; in fact over 6 months! Mypro, you still around? What happened?

Mypro,

Definitely stay with the wife. Divorce is AWFUL, Financially ruinous, and really bad for your child. If none of the other reasons work for you, please stay for your child.

My experience is that most women will be more open to fun sex, and more intense sex, when they feel comfortable. You can only try to be more the suitor that you were before you married her.

I've also learned that some people think about the negatives (you) and others are oriented to think on the positives. You must change your thought patterns to the positives about your wife. She will then notice your new attitude and feel more appreciated. Her responses will make your attitude work worth while.

So court the wife. Commit the hot number to memory, and dump her quietly. Don't confess to the wife if you don't have to. If you do, say you did have a flirtation, but then came to your senses. Confessing to infidelity can only hurt your wife. Winning her heart is your goal, not hurting her.

Good luck.

And love your daughter, like the best father you can be.

it seems strange that you have to choose either one.

1) it's a mistake to marry the first person you ever date.

2) it's a mistake to marry before 25. before that, you're trying to establish your own identity. when people get married that young, they end up identifying themselves only by/with/through other people. moral of the story: getting married too young = terrible case of codependance.

3) kids before either person is 30 is a real mistake there. you haven't had enough time to a) establish your individual identiy, b) establish and figure out your relationship [make sure you really want to make a go of the thing] and then when the relationship doesn't work, you've left a kid without a parent.

sorry to sound so critical, but we have far too many codepenant people leaving good kids out in the cold just because they think the goal of dating is marriage. live and love your own life first, then invite someone else into it to live and love it with you. that doesn't mean you shouldn't date or all of that fun stuff before you're mature enough to get married, just don't make that person the thing you can't live without.

now...... in answer to the original post.....

it sounds like you're not going to be happy with either person. you don't like your wife because you've matured and she hasn't (see above) and you're mistress is a bimbo with too many kids.

you need time off from both of them to catch up on knowing yourself and what you want and need, which you weren't able to do when you were younger because you were involved in a serious relationship so young. the fly in the ointment here is your kid, who doesn't deserve an unfaithful father caught in a loveless marriage, and the child needs to be your first consideration here. so i have two options for you:

1) stick with your marriage and make the best of it through counseling and making a real effort to rediscover what it is that you love about each other. that will start to foster the best environment for your kid.

2) get a divorce and get both women out of your life. you need to be a dad to your kid though, and never leave them. but you also need to reassess your life and grow up.

the mistress doesn't sound like an option at all, since she's obviously not a substantive personality.

it's a pickle, but i do wish you the best as you work through it.

You knew that by talking to your wife in the past that infedility would end in divorce, why in the hell did you cheat on her in the first place! You reap what you sow, I have no pity for you.


V.

I personally find your actions to be selfish and you should've thought about things before you began your affair. You don't seem to be thinking of your future much with this affair, and how exactly is your daughter going to grow up? My mom used to tell me some pretty nasty things about my dad and vice versa, my parents devorced when I was 8. You'd be amazed the horrific things one parent will tell a child. Do you really want your daughter to look at you as a man who would be irresponsible and have an affair? I think you should stop the affair first of all, then talk to a lawyer, and sit down with your wife, tell her that it's not working for you, apologize, maybe tell her about the affair(depending on probable reaction, sometimes people shouldn't know for their own well-being). Tell her you want to end the marraige, but it's not fair to her and especially not fair to your daughter to drag this on. Try to retain a friendship with your wife, it seems that would be best. And if you really want to start a new relationship, go and look for someone with some intellegence, and morals....