How much for a job?
 

Well, after this thread and watching the British drama Secret Diary of a call girl episode 5 of season 2 (I think it is an awesome drama).., but it led me to thinking, what if I were in Alex's shoes?

In the show, The girl, Hannah, who's call name is Belle de Jour is a high end call girl who has an EXCITING life and makes TONS of money (I understand it's fiction but a guy's gotta dream) falls in love. This of course does not work for the show and they can the dude --his name is Alex BTW, for .., irreconcilable reasons.

But would you date a hooker though? A former hooker? Or a stripper? A lady that's entirely enmeshed in the sex industry as completely as a pornographic actress? Or a ... man?

I wouldn't date a hooker/escort/prostitute, whatever. And whats funny is I actually know one in person. I have the stunted morals of a born again Presbyterian. Unfortunately, reality and fantasy simply DON'T mix. After getting tested, a former hooker, maybe. Stripper I'm alright with. Porn-star, YES! Actually, I don't know. Because I've never met one. I don't know any in person.

What about you?

I dated a cocktail waitress/occasional dancer for a few months in college. Well it was actually more of a boot call situation, but it was fun....ah college

I don't think I would have a problem with the profession if it was just that. I have found that frequently these sort of professions end up being lifestyle choices. I might have more of an issue with that, depending on what lifestyle choices comes to mean (ie drug abuse, etc.).

In the end, I don't see a lot of difference, strictly speaking, between a model and a woman that sells her sex.

(note: I am talking about a woman who runs her own business rather than someone being exploited by a pimp).

I have absolutely NO problem with prostitution and in fact think it should be legal (topic for another thread though I suppose), however I'm not sure I'd really want to date one. I just can't imagine it working out well and I'm not really sure why. I'm not really the jealous type, I've been in open relationships, I dated a stripper once and honestly neither bothered me.

I guess I could deal with a casual relationship as long as she used protection and was tested often. But I think in the end a serious relationship would just fall apart. Being sloppy 14ths at end of the day would just become a turn off and I think I'd feel like I was in constant competition with her clients...but I don't know, the right girl with the right frame of mind about the profession and maybe it would work.

Good thread. :)

No, sir. No strippers, hookers, or porn stars for me...

These women objectify themselves for a living. If I want an object, I'll get a fleshlight...

I know this seems callous, and maybe even a bit strange out of me, but I just can't see it any other way.

So long as it's just a job then I don't really care. I've got a few friends with curious pasts, dated a few women who've worked in the sex industry and I'm currently dating a dominatrix and if there's anything I've found, it's that the job says much less about the person than you'd assume. Largely, they were all quite desensitized to it all and anything but enmeshed as the clientele typically were pretty fucking far from desirable. It's all mechanics just like every other job but with a pinch more theatrics and a much higher payout.

I don't think I could be serious with a woman that treat sher vagina like a turnstile but I realize that I'm not in any position to judge as I've been a whore my entire life and I've never been paid for it.

She named herself after Catherine Deneuve's title character in the movie "Belle de Jour?"

(Translation:" Daytime Beauty")

^^ Yep ... that she did.

I've dated a couple strippers in the past. They were nice girls. They weren't just a piece of ass when they left the club. They were real people with real lives and issues just like the rest of us. The reasons for dancing were varied, but of the 3 I dated, they've all left the profession and are now white collar professionals with college degrees. It doesn't always work out that way, but just because they're stripping doesn't make them whores.

As far as a prostitute, I dunno..that's a harder one to come to terms with merely for the disease factor. If they're clean and they have no interest in it anymore, then I probably could have dated one.

Now I want to hear more about Manic's love affair with the Dominatrix :D

I don't think I would. I'd feel dirty dating somebody who prostituted her body for a living. It seems repulsive to me.

I am honestly surprised by your answer. I didn't expect it from you. Not bad or good, just unexpected.

Personally, I don't think I could. Generally, it's because of the lifestyle more than the actually profession. Late nights, drugs, risk, police, etc. The potential for drama is too high. I want my mate to bring calming fun into my life, if that makes sense. If they are former whatevers, then it would depend on some other factors, how long out of the industry, disease free, etc. I think it would be wild to hear the stories.

I don't know for sure, but I think it would be too much for me to date an ex-hooker. Stripper maybe. I can imagine decent people who got caught up in hooking, then quit to continue being decent, but it'd probably still bother me.

Honestly, I'm just too fragile emotionally to deal with these things

I don't much give a shit. I'm most likely not gonna be with the girl for life. If I'm just looking to stick my dick in something... cool.

No, I would not date someone that was currently a gigolo, stripper, whore, whatever. I have a son and would not want him to grow up becoming one, so I myself wouldn't date someone like that. I'd prefer someone with a job that had less drama. More of a professional job. Then again, I've always been like that. Also, I'm the jealous type. A silent jealous type, but jealous nonetheless. I think it would tear me up knowing that another girl had her grubby paws all over my man. No thank you.

It would depend entirely on the person. I've no reason to believe that every accountant is datable. Why would I assume that every prostitute or porn actor or stripper is not?

I don't know. Maybe the amount of cocks she's taken in has something to do with it.

so if she is otherwise mentally healthy and disease-free, simply the number of cocks is the dealbreaker?

I can more easily understand an aversion to someone who is currently in a profession that involves intercourse on a regular basis, that could be a challenge to anyone's patience, but not so much to someone who is out of the profession based solely on the fact that they had 'too many cocks.'

Maybe it's not what you meant but I can't help but to find what's implied here as deeply offensive.

Couple that with the fact that she's sold her body to the owners of said cocks and you have a person with whom I would not be able to get past The Past™ and enjoy the future.

Then again, I haven't met any former hookers. I'll let you know if I feel any differently when I get acquainted with some.

WTF does that even mean? I chalk this up to one of those bullshit phrases that are supposed to stigmatize certain non-methodist activities and/or professions. Now if you said she "rented" her body then that might make some sense but ... meh?

I was a stripper for a couple of years. I objectified myself, and made an incredible amount of money! I did it mostly for the money, but also ...just because I could.:) And I liked the attention. I liked looking out and seeing the guys with their hands in their pants and knowing it was me that was on their minds. And because I didn't really know what else I wanted to do. I was the stripper that hardly drank, didn't do drugs, and went to church on Sunday. I was an object, an expensive object, but not a whore. Enjoy the fleshlight.

You are describing me perfectly, guccilvr. In my time as a dancer I went out with about a dozen of my "fans." (I ended up having sex with maybe two or three.) Sometimes on a real date, sometimes just out for breakfast after the club closed. I told one guy who asked me out on Saturday night that I'd be at First Christian Church for the 11:00 service the next morning, and he actually showed up!:thumbsup: Some guys (I think) are actually kind of intimidated by strippers, and really don't know what to expect. Some are in the titti bar looking for sex, (but it's not a very good pickup place, right guys?) but most are just lonely and/or bored. You know what I hated most about it??? The smoke.:thumbsdown:

Lindy

You drew the whore conclusion, not me, but that's an entirely different conversation, anyhow...

I mean no offense to any strippers, porn stars, or prostitutes here on the site. Perhaps, I should have stated my opinion without the fleshlight comparison, but I've never really been one to sugar coat my opinions...

I'm not here to judge anybody, but I could never respect a woman that is in, or has been in the sex industry at the level required for a relationship to even be an option, let alone work out in the long run. It's really just a personal belief and preference.

I don't believe you are what you do, but I certainly believe what you do says a lot about who you are.

so what does being in a 'sex profession' say about who you are exactly?

Where are all the TFP ladies in this discussion?

I can agree with that but then again, I've made the world a much worse off place with some of the jobs I've held than any trick turnin' prostitute could ever manage. Hell, I've pushed papers in an industry that paid me in blood money - literally.

I really don't see what the big deal is here.

I had a good female friend a few years ago (she moved and we drifted apart) that was a call girl for a year or two. She was a great girl (a bit of a gyspy) that didn't really get hung up on the whole "sex is bad" thing. She knew it was just a job and wasn't banging a bunch of guys a night. She said she usually only turned a trick or two a night. I didn't really ask her to much about it, but I do know she didn't do it full time, she worked as a CNA as a full time job.

She didn't do it any when I first met her or during the years I knew her. She was clean (as in disease free) and didn't let her pass hold her back. As for dating her? I would have, but then she was a lesbian and in a long-term relationship with a girl that could bench press me.

Now, this should be a case-by-case answer, there is no "blanket" answer on this one. I would have dated HER, but not every hooker out there. It's more of, yes I could get past the past, but it's only because of her personality and the way she handled it. I don't really care what you did in the past, as long as it's the past. If it affects the present, then yes I would have a problem with it.

BTW, she was a HOT little thing. Shorter than me (no she was not a hobbit hooker), waist length curly blond hair, tight body. Tough as nails and had a great personality to boot. She just liked eating cardboard more than playing with the sausage.

Frankly, to me, selling your body for a living implies that you don't respect yourself enough for me to respect you enough to have an intimate relationship with you.

I'm not saying people in the sex industry are bad people. I'm just saying they're not the type of people I could ever work out a relationship with.

Would you date a hitman? It's just business...

^^ Yeah, wetwork and the sex industry are completely the same thing. :rolleyes:

You've missed the point...

My point is everyone draws their line somewhere. I draw mine here and I've stated my reasons why. Perhaps some see me as ignorant or closed minded, but I'm of the persuasion that that's a hard call when dealing with personal beliefs and preference.

Should I apologize for answering your question? Is that my easy way out here?

Punk, I sold myself for sex once... you will still date me right? I love it when you cuddle with me?

*****

Punk has made a good point, we all have lines that we do not cross. You can't sit here here and say "You are wrong to have that line, THIS is MY line, your line should be HERE." Punk wouldn't and that's his choice. You can't bash someone for having their own set of morals.

.... I can't believe I just fucking typed that in reference to POA.

Wow.

I take offense to you comparing the job of an assassin and that of a sex worker. A sex worker might give you herpes but an assassin will most DEFINITELY kill you.

Apples and oranges.

You may have an opinion and that is alright but it's based on a false premise. I too said i wouldn't date a working prostitute and Iliftrocks said it best on behalf of himself, me AND you P.o.A.

By comparing a victimless activity to one that DEFINITELY has victims is tasteless and projecting of your own shortcomings to someone else.

I didn't say that a prostitute is the same as a hitman. I was simply comparing one moral to another. Certain people don't have sex for a living because it's against their morals, other people don't kill people because it's against their morals. Where you draw that line is up to you...

I take offense to you telling me I have shortcomings because of where I draw my morals.

All this aside, I do have one shortcoming at this point in time: I'm steadily getting drunker. Therefore, I leave this thread for tonight, but, hey, feel free to attack my morals some more. I'll get to it tomorrow.

I understand that you were making a comparison and my point was that the professions were not analogous.

I am also not attacking your morals. Your posts inferred that you would not date her because her career choice was not something you stood for. What I am trying to say is; The reason you would not date her is not because of what SHE has done wrong, but because YOU have issues with it. Not her.

I understand your reasoning, but comparing someone who 'sold their body' for a living (which is an inaccurate, emotionally charged description) to someone who kills (or has killed) for any reason, financial or not, I find to be an inapt comparison. It might be more appropriate to use religion or political persuasion as a comparison.

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

but I see that point has already been addressed.

My ultimate point is, that the charged reactions here to people who do 'sex work' are emotional and blown way out of proportion. Which is a little alarming, considering the group of people having this discussion. Well, not alarming, but disappointing.

So how would that change the answer? Yeah, I have an issue with it. Does that mean that I should think really hard about how my way of thinking is wrong? Fuck no, I won't do that. I wouldn't be comfortable dating somebody like that, period. Why should I have to defend my stance?

no one should really have to defend their stance...we're just talking here and ultimately it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. it's speculation for the most part.

Stripper maybe. Prostitute hell no. Porn star... I'm afraid of freakishly gigantic cock, so no.

It's not for you. That is fine. Everyone has preferences. Chocolate vs Vanilla. I'm not trying to make you love pretty woman.

What it is, is, you prefer chocolate to vanilla. That doesn't make vanilla wrong.

Why do you have the need to defend the "profession"?

Perhaps it wasn't the greatest comparison, but it still illustrates my point: Everyone draws their line somewhere, and this is where I draw mine.

I don't think "Selling your body" is an inaccurate or emotionally charged description. Strippers, hookers, and porn stars are all paid for their bodies. It's that simple...

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------

I never said I wouldn't date someone in the sex industry because it's wrong to be in the sex industry. My reasons are exactly that: My reasons.

Anyone who does physical labor "sells their body." Like a brick layer, stoop laborer, or a professional football or hockey player.

Indeed, why is the 'sold their body' sobriequet applied exclusively to women? What about Evander Holyfield or Mike Tyson? :confused:
Sheesh, talk about selling your body.

Lindy

Jeez, maybe he should have said "selling your mouth, vagina, and rectum as sexual equivs of the Lincoln Tunnel." High traffic.

Semantics are killing us in here.

Just curious...what about a woman with a moderately high partner count vs. one who was a prostitute for a short period of time with a similar partner count?

Good question.

and I think the distinction is significant, Crompsin. you can liken it to soldiers being called 'baby killers,' if you like. It describes an emotional conception rather than a factual reality.

I've lately become interested in sex and its wide effects both individual and social. MM got it right on when she said the reasons stipulated against the "profession" were emotionally charged. There hasn't been a better reason otherwise.

So as far as "defending" goes, I was merely pointing out that the reasons given were not from a concrete place but rather more illogical. Not from some innate "need" to defend.

Also why I linked to other thread. I'm impressed that the body count does not phase a lot of people as far as the concept for paying for it.

Here is the where my stance differs from "a lot of people".

I would never - ever - use the services of a prostitute. I have been through some very dry spells and the thought has never crossed my mind. My reasoning is two fold:

1) I will never be desperate enough for sex to pay for it. I find it demeaning (to me, not to the prostitute).

2) I find it dirty.

It is because of the reason number two, I will never feel comfortable to date somebody (I cannot date somebody without the sexual aspect) who has been was a prostitute or has slept with an enormous number of guys.

It is also because of that, that I will never ask for the "number". If it's high and I like her enough, I don't want to know because it will numb those feelings for me if I find out.

"But Logan!", you ask "could you date a prostitute if you didn't know about her past?"

What I don't know can't hurt me, right?

Right.

Wrong.

An STD can hurt me if I don't know about it.

Uh, no. The "Baby Killer" thing, outside freak incidents, is a complete fabrication. A social construction that furthers the hippie tofu flower cause.

This thread, correct me if I'm wrong, is about the perception of an actual occurrence. You know, being a skank.

Shhh! TFP doesn't like the word skank.

A sexually liberated woman is the PC term.

uh, no. we are talking about the term 'selling your body.'

---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

TFP seems to like the word skank just fine.

Personally, I like the word 'asshole,' but that one's just a little too much for faint hearts to bear.

You've been talking to some weak hearted fools, mm.

Okay, somebody help me with my math here. I'm not a genius.

A "selling your body" prostitute ≠ sexually liberated woman.

Two different creatures.

...

MM, you appear to have some type of personal soft spot that is being thumped. I am not attempting to attack anybody in this thread, merely attempting to articulate my point that whether it was 2010 BC or 2010 CE, a prostitute is still a prostitute. Let's avoid the passive-aggressive stuff. It's silly.

Yes, but a skank is also colloquial for a woman who sleeps around and has a bunch of partners.

I just assumed...

Righteous.

I am not being passive aggressive. I am making a point that is totally supportable. You're the one who can't seem to get past it and just accept that it is my position.

I accept that a person can accept or reject any person for the consequences of their actions - real or perceived. And I have said that explicitly in this thread. Personally, I don't care, why should I?

But, I am as free as anyone here to object to the use of terms, phrases, stereotypes and opinions as I see fit. What is the problem?

I'm having difficulty understanding your dissension. I think you agree but then you begin with "uh, no".

Also where do is it you refer to passive aggressive behavior being employed? I see none of that but I could be missing something.

Oh, no problem. This discussion has devolved into the typical "What is a 'ho?" exercise. Oops! And how boring.

Frankly, I'd rather get into another 9mm vs. .45 debate or the famous TFP "Should I stay or leave?" routine.

...

Doctor: I'm sorry, you have syphilis.
Logan: What?!?! No! Impossible! I am totally loyal to my girlfriend and she's the only one I've ... had.., unprotecte ... What the FUCK AMY?!?!
Amy: Honey, Ive been meaning to tell you?
Logan: TELL ME WHAT!? Your an inverted walking hazmat suit???
Amy: No, I before you I erm, had a couple of one night stands?
Logan: What exactly is "a couple"??
Amy: Remember the rolex watch I got you?
Logan: You fucking WHOAR!
Doctor: Calm down!
Logan: Don't tell me to fucking calm down!! This, this .. this JEZEBEL gave me the herp!!
Amy:Syphilis.
Logan: That makes me feel MUCH better!!!
Amy: I meant to say the rolex belonged to my ex and he probably infected you with it.
Logan: WHAT???
Doctor: That's technically impossible.
Amy: How about hypothetically?
Logan: huh???
Doctor: huh???
Amy: You know what, if that's how you feel then fine! We're through!
Logan: Fine!
Amy: FINE!
Logan: FINE!!
Doctor: Finally.

Something along those lines, yes.

What is your aim for this discussion?

My aim has been to filter out emotionally-charged stances and get to the real reasons why a person might find someone who is or has been involved in a sex profession so reprehensible, untouchable. Because when you take away reactionary phrases like 'selling your body' and terms like 'skank,' what are you left with? I can't help but think you are left with blanket generalizations that, like all blanket generalizations, don't have the capability of meaning jackshit when it comes to describing any one person in particular.

It doesn't mean that people won't still believe them and live by them, but it does mean that they might have to see them poked around a bit sometimes by people who think they are, well, silly.

Maybe you had designs that this thread could be a happy place where, one after another, TFP folks could drop by and have a laugh about how nasty whores and strippers are before stopping by the Titty Board for a goodnight wank.

Me, I'm just doing what I do and it's not passive aggressive. :)

And what would be the point of filtering them out other than basically saying in big bold letters "Your opinion has no foundation"?

I don't want to wade in a watering hole where 100 other dicks have been. Do you want a reason for that other than I think it's icky?

Who?

I don't expect that I'd have a problem dating someone who used to be in the sex industry provided that the person was physically healthy and mentally stable. But that physically healthy and mentally stable thing goes for every potential mate, regardless of past profession.

But Logan, so far it has no foundation. I wouldn't date a currently working prostitute perhaps for the same reason I wouldn't date two girls at the same time. I just don't swing and I see it as the same thing. Boring straight male monogamy is me. I draw the line at taking clothes off, I'm cool with that. You see it's a preference that I have. Which is fine.

But to say that I wouldn't date a working prostitute because I think it's reprehensible, icky, wrong just means *I* have the problem. Not the girl.

On second thought, I wouldn't date woman who had a job at all. It just seems soo, um, groooooooooooooooooooooody.

Where have I ever stated that it was her problem and not mine?

I think you're missing the obvious fact that your opinion is likely to raise eyebrows because it really isn't substantiated by anything but your opinion. There's nothing wrong with thinking and feeling the way that you do - a lot of people do and we all have our limits - but the idea that one is irrevocably soiled or dirty due to their number of sexual partners is just plain nonsensical. That's a harsh and judgmental outlook on the choices of others that reads as if you believe them to be beneath you.

The fact that it's your opinion is obvious enough but I speak for mm and myself when I wonder through all of this text as to whether there's something that underlies such a view other than sheer emotionality.

On another note, I really don't understand where this thread has gone.

The point would be to get people to talk about it. That's all. It's not a competition.

If you think I mean that hooking is not a decent way to make a living, then yes that is what I implied, now stated. Sorry if that is offensive to you, but that is the way I feel about it. I don't believe that people can't recover from mistakes though, or are irredeemable.

Dating a prostitute or a porn star would be a problem for me, but that more a reflection of my age and experience (lack of?) than either profession.

My first fiancee was a stripper. It's how she paid for college when the grant money wasn't enough. She felt it was less horrible than taking out school loans...she never liked being in debt. When I met her she was already in a white collar job as a city planner, but she still loved going to strip clubs. She was a bit of an exhibitionist, and knew many of the girls who worked there.

I never had an issue with it. It was just a job. She'd stated she enjoyed it, but just saw it as a job she'd had in the past. I never saw stripping as dirty in any way. I always saw guys who went to strip clubs as silly, but I that's an whole other issue.

I wouldn't date a still working prostitute, but if a girl told me she'd been one in the last, it wouldn't bother me, as long as she'd been tested. That's true of anyone I meet who was sexually active, though, so no real difference there.

"Hey baby! What's your name?"
"Rebecca."
"I'm Steve. I'm an accountant down on Chalmers Street. What do you do?"
"I work as the testor in the quality assurance lab at the Sybian factory."

Discuss...