What's wrong with me?
 

I see a lot of jerks, ugly people and shady people having no problem getting dates, but me - none. Now I'm not a stud by any definition, but I'm decent looking, have a good sense of humor, well educated, and am a nice guy. But I can't get a date or a steady girlfriend for my life. Every single time I start getting to know someone I want to ask out, we just end up becoming friends, and I feel like dating would possibly jeopardize our friendship. I mean I'm 22 years old and have had this problem for as long as I know. Does anyone else suffer/has suffered from this and what remedies can you suggest?

Probably cause you are jealous of others and trying to out do them by making yourself look better then them that you are in the situation?

Not to get you mad at me, but I wouldn't worry about how other people are doing.

Some people call me attractive, but some girls think I'm the ugliest guy in the world it seems. (If you are curious, I am under the exhibition area :))

My boss at work said it best...if you can't catch the fish you want, change the lake you fish at.

sounds familiar

here's my question for you though. When you meet a girl, do you see them as a potential girlfriend in the future or do you just see them as a friend?

I had a friend that would see every single girl through the eyes of a relationship but not as a friend. The problem was that those girls would never see who he really was. He gave off this image of what he would be like as a boyfriend, not as his regular self.

My personal experiences were like my friend at first because every girl that became remotely interested in, I would treat them as a potential girlfriend until I met this one girl.

Now it's been 3+ years with my baby and I couldn't be happier.

Basically what I'm saying is that just be yourself and something will pan out. I know it sounds like the old cliche but hey, there must be a reason why they keep saying it right? Hope this has been somewhat helpful.

>>When you meet a girl, do you see them as a potential girlfriend in the future or do you just see them as a friend?

Well the truth is, I treat everyone as I would treat a friend. I think innately there is the fear that I don't want to jeopardize a friendship and try to turn it into a dating relationship. Is it common to start dating before a strong friendship develops?

I feel that I'm always myself. I don't act differently around girls or anything like that, maybe I should? I dunno...

never act differently, be yourself by yourself.
but if you're interested in a girl, try to let your intentions be known rather than just treating her friendly as you do to everyone else, though its better to do it more subtley than abrupt as you don't want to jeopordize anything. I don't think implying your interest through general talking and some body langauge or other actions etc is counted as acting differently.

Re: What's wrong with me?
 

The problem is in your post:

Quote:

Every single time I start getting to know someone I want to ask out, we just end up becoming friends, and I feel like dating would possibly jeopardize our friendship.

You have to get past the idea that you're a jerk for not wanting to be friends with somebody if they don't want anything more. Don't want to date? Fine. No, we can't be friends. Sorry. Just the way it is. I don't have enough time to spend hours on new "friends." I have enough friends. Once you leap this hurdle, you'll have no problem. Most girls-- and this is generalizing-- place you in one of two categories, lovers and friends, and never the twain shall meet.

Bob

i wouldnt take the previous member's advice as gospel though...


Enjoy the friendships dude.. Arent friendships relationships too?
Or are you just looking to score? or have the "storybook" relationship.
Stop comparing your life with your expectations and roll with what comes your way. I know plenty of guys who have psycho girlfriends who wont let them have ANY other females in their lives, versus guys who are surrounded by plenty of female friends and no serious gf's..

Which one do you think is worse?

mates over dates, bros over hoes etc
hmm the last one doesn't really apply to female friends tho ;)

I recognize alot of myself in your posts. i'm 26 and it's been about three years since Ilast had an actual relationship (couple of one night stand type things aside).

I have to agree with bobmsmythe on this: wether you're friendship or dating material seems to be decided fairly early on, and once your in the friendship corner, not much chance of getting out. Of course there's heaps of people who've been friends before falling in love, but this is usually unexpected, spontaneous and a long time in the making. And if you're anything like me, there'd be nothing spontaneous and unexpected about that.

For me, I know I'm shy. I can basically talk to people and stuff, but it just takes me a while before I can really chill out and be the intelligent, witty man that I am ;). Anyway, you can pretty much measure how much I like a girl by how stupid and shy I get trying to talk to her. I wouldn't be making stupid macho remarks or anything, just won't be able to think of anything intelligent/witty to say. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to attrackt a dang purdy girl if my head wouldn't lock up like it does.

What I try to do about it is just to try and flirt more with girls that arn't really my type. Just try and connect with someone in the supermarket, maybe the cassiere (she can't go anywhere :)). At first it was totally awkward- you see that Friends episode where Ross tries to flirt with a pizzadelivery girl and starts talking about how the smell of gas is added in a factory? Something like that. It's just nerves, and the more I practice, the easier it gets

Sure, I think it usually goes that way. Starting to date when you've already established a friendship between you. Romance (far as I know, tell me when I'm off) is much about excitement, adventure and not really knowing what to expect.


Hope this helps at all. If not, atleast you'll know you're not alone ;)

Be a bit more aggressive and unavailable. Nobody chases a legless cat. Make yourself interesting by not being available as often. Also, women put you in the friend zone if you lack confidence. A woman expects a man to act like one...confidence is the #1 thing a woman expects from a male. Women make friend out of guys that don't fit their idea of a bf..and generally that means the "too nice" guy. I'm not saying be an asshole, even tho that seems to work ridiculously well with many women. I'm saying to be more declarative in your goals and plans, more aggressive in your actions, and most women will see you as bf material a lot more than a sobsister with a penis.

Have patience my friend. As study shows, there are approximately 20,000 possible matchups for each and everyone of us. I am sure you haven't met all your 20,000 selected fine females (might have some males included, too).

So, keep searching.

Act like you don't give a fuck and she'll like you alot more...

I was in your exact situation a few years back - I did meet girls, and often ended up being with them, but nothing ever worked out.

The trick is, STOP LOOKING - your attitude towards relationships will change without you realising and before you know it, opportunities will come along.

Trust me, it works!

All good advice it seems. I guess I'll see what works. The thing is, I'm a musician, I have no problem meeting girls or anything. I don't get it how I can get up on stage and play and sing my heart out, but I get nervous a lot when I want to ask a girl out. I guess I've done it so seldom, I am just inexperienced. Probably also a couple "rejections" are just causing doubt in the back of my head.

When I ask someone out, I absolutely don't want give the impression that I'm some loser that just wants to get laid, but I feel at least on one occasion that's how I made myself out to be. It's truly not that. I just want a good steady relationship - someone to do stuff with, maybe I just haven't looking in the right spots, who knows... I'm moving to Manhattan in a few months, perhaps that should help my chances.

Um.. Just saw this posted on a similar board just a few minutes ago.. As in, this is something of a repost, but http://www.intellectualwhores.com/. About ladder theory. I think some of the above posts made slight references to it.

I just read that this evening so I haven't exactly been able to take the principles and put them into play. I personally have many female friends, and besides just about one really unusual, awesome, depressing, etc relationship, I seem to be stuck on the same boat as you. Except I just turned 18 and haven't exactly begun living in that scary place known as Real Life. Anyhow, a little information never hurt anyone, just take a look at that site, it's a bit vulgar, but it gets it's point across.

What type of music do you play, by the way, just out of curiosity?

And as for moving, Manhattan should give you the perfect chance to change yourself if you feel like doing so, or to merely readjust a bit of your behavior. Good luck.

ask them out first.....in order to get to know them.......Then decide if they are friend material or relationship material juggle several at first (don't be too available see above) then home in on what you like.

I think if you start from being friends first you are behind the game as far as them considering you as a relationship partner....

Thanks for the site. I'm checking it out right now.

I play a bunch of styles of music. In the band situation, mostly rock, but jazz and blues tends to be my favorite styles to play.

As for the move the Manhattan, that had strictly a music motive in mind, but I'm starting to put other motives to it. I just went there today to check out a few more apartments, and I just see SO MANY beautiful women... at least one of them has to be for me right? :) Thanks again for the site.

Confidence is 99% of the equation. Grooming is the other 1%, and they play off of each other. You need to get out there just to meet people and see what happens. Dont go out looking for a mate. As son as you really stop looking, one will be right there.

First of all, a problem is that you are typing on your computer and spending time here instead of being out there with the ladies. Not many women find a man attractive when they are locked up in their room typing on a computer.

That aside, you need to live more - go out and do the things that you enjoy - windsurfing, hiking, kiteflying, join a musical group or club, or any other type of club or adult interest lesson, etc. That way, you will meet women who you share an interest with and will be able to talk with them and become aquainted. Step two; if you hit it off with one of them then don't wait too long before asking her out to dinner. If you wait 3 weeks then she will have already given up on you being a horndog and labeled you "friend" and you're a goner. For once in your life you need to step up and take the initiative. Ask her out, ask her out again, ask her if you can kiss her and then take her someplace dark and eat her pussy. This needs to happen within the first three weeks or it won't happen. Don't be too "nice", just go for what you want and if she wants it too she will let you do it. If she doesn't want it too then move on to the next. Also, don't try to be someone who you aren't. This comes off as being phoney and boring. If you like her, tell her. If you want to kiss her but you are worried that you will scare her off - then tell her exactly that and she will think it is sweet. Be honest, be yourself and just go for it.

This is relatively simple. 99% of girls don't like intelligent nice guys. I say 99% because there might be some woman in Tibet that breaks the mold. But as a whole, if you are intelligent and nice, they will want to be friends with you, but won't consider you for anything more. Well, it really depends how intelligent and saavy to a degree. Like, are you just educated, or 'does calculus for fun' type stuff? I am the latter, and as a result, girls don't like me, since girls tend to not be into things like math. I have this one friend that says she is attracted to intelligent guys, but always gets interested in these "hot" guys with "tight asses." This is the way the female works I think. They convince themselves they are looking for intelligent nice guys, and then go with the hot "walking penis" guys. I may just be jaded, but this is what I've noticed from my limited time on this planet and from personal experience. So, get in touch with your stupid side!

OK, I agree with half of this. Most women like strong (emotionally strong) aggressive men who can control their aggression.

Be confident. If you can't *be* confident, fake it. Don't "ask" her out, "tell" her you want to go out with her.

e.g. "Let's go to Luigi's next Thursday... We'll have a nice dinner, go to the lakefront (or ocean front or some other romantic place) and enjoy each other's company."

BTW: there's nothing wrong with dating a friend. Most really happy married couples started as friends.

And most divorced people started as married couples .. ! ..
How's that for wierd thinking ? ..


..
Anyways, dude, i don't think there's anything wrong with you ..
Everything i had to say was basicly said by Uocom.

And just for the record, there are many ways of being nice, charming and a gentleman towards a girl. Some of them include being aggressive ...
Just look at angela146's example. It was very very well said! ..

I currently come to the conclusion that its all because im possibly picky. Whereas most people would go 'ah what the hell' ill usually aim for the top of the pile, and then i have to do some catch up race with the other guys, if not being blocked by a boyfriend.

I shall make it someday, but untill then i shall save money for a car hahah

You're looking at appearances, for starters ... There really is more to it than that.

Listen to angela, I'm damn sure that nails it down.

If you're a musician and you can't find a girl in Manhattan, then you REALLY have problems.

The move and accompanying lifestyle changes that it will bring with it will probably be just the thing. I don't suggest changing your look to attract a potential mate, because if you land that girl and begin to revert back, and it was only your look whe was interested in, she'll leave and you'll just be bummed out more. You should never have to replace your wardrobe to get a girl. Once you've GOT the girl, you can add a few things to it for when you take her out to show off to the city.

I agree with what others have said above. The best thing is to stop actively seeking one out. The right one will find you. Trouble is, at that point, a few will hit at once, and also keep in mind that an "attached" male is often more appetizing to a woman than a single one. The reason is that if girl #1 is dating you (or even better, married to you) then girl #2 knows that girl #1 has found something in you that makes you relationship material and her interest is piqued.

Anyway, let us know how you do, but trust us, you'll be fine. You're also 22, and have PLENTY of time.

-Mikey

Ooo, the notorious 'friend zone'. Before i say anything else, let me share my experience with female friends. To put myself in perspective, i usually do the whole physical attractiveness rating on the 1-10 thing. Here's how i rate. It's really simple. When i look at someone, if my eyes are drawn toward them, they rate above five. If i look at someone and think 'there is a person' they rate at five. If i look at them and tend to look away.... well, that's not important. I consider myself five. I'd LIKE to think i'm not ooogly, and yet, i'm far from handsome. I'm me, i'm happy with that.

Personality wise, i would say that i'm intelligent (or so i'm told O.o) and i'm... reserved outgoing. For the longest time i was quite shy. Dating wise, i'm nothing special. No girl would ever look at me and go "gee i want him". On the flip side, when they get to know me, usually it's more of a "gee, he's kinda funny". Essentially, unless i make a move, i would never get a girl. They just never think about it. I'd definitely listen to Angela. She's right on. Having friends is great. However, having an SO is something special too. Asking someone out doesn't mean destroying a friendship at all. In fact, i enjoy going out for the heck of going out. It doesn't need to be romantic, or a *sweats* "should i kiss her at the doorstep???"

In fact, a couple weeks ago my gf went back home for the weekend (3 hours away) and me, being lonely and all alone in the apartment, called up a girl i had met at school and done some studying with. I said hey, what's up, what ya doing, how about we go get something to eat tomorrow. Next day we had lunch at at Olive Garden (i wouldn't let her pay, that's just me though, since it was casual it's perfectly fine to split the check). Had a great pleasant conversation, and went our separate ways.

Now, the question on your mind is, did my gf know? OF COURSE. It was a social outing. However, the point is. If i wasn't already taken, i could easily have been a date. Neither of us had expectations. Sometimes a date is just a date. Ask a friend out for lunch. Or as Angela said, TELL her you want to have lunch with her. Don't expect too much, and it's just not a big deal. If it goes well, ask her out for dinner. You won't know, if you don't try. It really doesn't have to be a big deal. There's a lot of good tips here. And really, you DO have plenty of time.

P.S. Sorry, i tend to rant long pointless posts. Oh, and if you're wondering how i DID manage to get my gf... that's a LONG complicated story about meeting on the internet, cultivating a 1600 mile relationship, that has now lasted for more than 3 years. O.o

P.P.S. There is NOTHING wrong with you.