Sex life has gone with the wind...
 

Well, I've been a reader but none poster on this forum for awhile but now I need help so here I am.

Statistics...
Me 23, Her 23
7 years together

Our first few years together we would have sex several times a day and in every place imaginable, ie bjs in cars, theatres, parks, etc... As time moved on it became 5-7 times a week with a day in between every now and then, perfectly fine. Lately, it has become 2-3 times a week at best and nothing during that time of the month, a bj or handjob if I'm lucky.

As a young guy I have a high sex drive and find that it seriously affects my sleep, mood and daily life if I do not have something (sex, bj, handjob, etc..) once a day, or at least more often than now. I have talked to my girlfriend about this and she just says I am a nymph, I say I am a young male and its natural.

I recieved an email with a link to a sex drive article from her with a personal message attached saying 'This is a really long article, but I'd like you to unerstand the part about showing affection without the pressure of having sex. And how that is a type of fore play that women need for good sexual desire. It also explains that to men sex is their way of showing affection and connecting, which is what you've been saying. But I need you to meet me in the middle and realize that putting pressure on me makes me draw away from you and not want to touch or cuddle with you. I know that it's not just sex to you, but it becomes just sex to me without that "innocent" touching.
I love you honey. I want to fix this between us.'

Now here is where the problem comes in...She has mentioned all of this before, so I have tried many times. Not mentioning sex or sexual acts for weeks at a time. The result is that we have sex a 2-3 times a week, and after a few weeks of this I really need more and mention that fact and the arguing starts all over again. Sex is not only a way for me to feel connected to her but I cannot sleep without it. Masturbating doesn't do much, as it's the connection I really want.

What I'm I to do when she says not to mention it and I will get more, so I don't mention it and recieve the same amount (2-3 times a week). I should mention that it is not like I am not satisfying her, she typically has 2-4 orgasms each time we have sex. When I have to wait I do not feel connected to her because it is more the satisfying of the buildup at that point and I end up cumming quicker because it has been a few days.

Sorry for writing a novel...Opinions please?

Sounds to me like you missed the point of her note. She doesn't want you to not mention sex. She wants you to show affection for her without sex being a required reward. Not every hug or kiss has to lead to a romp in the sack, something many guys in their early 20's don't quite seem to get. Women do not want to feel as though they are just a convenient receptacle for your penis. Start being romantic, and start being affectionate just to be affectionate, with no other goal.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Do you take time to do anything like hold hands, give her a hug, a random kiss, etc? What about a compliment once in a while? Can you do any of these things without progressing to sex?

This shouldn't be just about your sex drive and your needs. Why is she required to have the same sex drive as you and be ready to satisfy your sexual needs whenever you feel its necessary? Everyone has a different sex drive and hers just must be lower than yours. If you are looking for this relationship to be a long term commitment, you will most likely need to compromise and start showing affection other than sex. Otherwise, find some else who has a sex drive closer to your own.

I do understand the point...but when kissing turns to touching and rubbing and no sex is at the end. What I'm I supposed to do with a hard on. There is a difference between hugs and kisses and turning a guy on to the point they have no choice but to have sex or rub one out. What I was saying is that I will go for weeks being as romantic as can be and not expecting sex and yes I get some, yet the amount is not enough. When I mention this it turns to arguing.

'This is exactly what I was thinking. Do you take time to do anything like hold hands, give her a hug, a random kiss, etc? What about a compliment once in a while? Can you do any of these things without progressing to sex?'

All the time. I tell her she is beautiful, give her hugs and kisses, take walks, cook meals, buy flowers. All without expecting anything, but it is like she does not hear them. I am not all about sex, sex, sex. But it feels rather one way when I do all of these things yet, I am the one expected to change. Can we not meet in the middle.

I have the same problem with my boyfriend, and f6twister hit the nail on the head. She just has a lower sex drive than you. That is all. Nothing more.

She likely feels very pressured, stressed out about it, and it probably will feel more like a chore to her the more you fight about it. It's a vicious circle, and to break it you have to accept things a bit more. Namely, sex 2-3 times a week isn't "sex life has gone with the wind." Many couples have sex much less than that and manage not to have a crisis over the fact. Yes, it's less than you're used to, but I don't understand why both you and my boyfriend think that sex and libido is going to remain at a constant high for the rest of the relationship. Of course you have sex more often at the start of the relationship. Everything is new, both partners are incredibly excited, and you wouldn't have experienced the heartache that comes with a long-term relationship.

To get you thinking about her point of view, have you thought about what it would be like if you couldn't get it up as often as you used to, and your girlfriend started to get on your case about it. I could be wrong, but I don't imagine it would make you feel very good about yourself, or very willing to have sex.

Of course, I don't know the details, and it's very hard to understand a problem thoroughly without the other person's side. Neither have I found a solution to this problem in my own relationship. But I am just warning from personal experience that if the situation continues as is, at best she will take off and hate you, at worst you will have the crumbling ruins of what used to be a great relationship, and the damage will take years to repair.

Hmm, 23 year old has been with the same girl since 16. Sounds to me like you're bored with her, and she's in the comfort zone.

Just might be time to call it quits and live it up a little.

Every hard-on doesn't require an orgasm. Get that thought out of your head, and you might become a little less overbearing to your girlfriend. Learn to enjoy being teased a little, knowing that when you get pleased it will be that much better. More than anything though, realize that a kiss, a hug, holding hands, etc are ways to show you care about someone, not just firstbase. Do these things for her with no agenda and enjoy it for what it is. As soon as your GF feels loved and not like just a sex object, the pressure will decrease on her and you will find her to be more sexual in the end. Long story short, love her the way she wants and you will be both end up very satisfied.

Okay, bubba, you sound almost as stubborn and stupid as I was seven years into my (now 17-year-old) relationship, when I was in much the same fix you're in, so I'm going to put it as straight and brutal as I wish somebody had to me.

Here's the deal: living with you is like being in a sexual pressure cooker. You have no idea. She constantly has the experience of failing to live up to your expectations and disappointing you, and YOUR answer to that is to make her feel even worse. And yet she's trying to have things work out. Woman's a saint. You don't deserve her.

"But!", you cry, "I'm doing all the smoochy nice romantic stuff! Without any expectation that I'll get anything for it! So I must really deserve to get laid for that, right? And when I don't it's a great big problem for me!" Uh hunh. If you stop and LISTEN TO YOURSELF, you might notice that MAAAAAAYBE the whole thing is just a strategy to get you what you want, and a set-up to have her be the bad guy when you don't. And then you wonder why she feels constantly pressured by you.

The "middle" you want to meet in isn't THE middle. It's YOUR middle. Your answer to this is to have her put out more. And all you've got is more and more desperate strategy to try and force that to happen.

Don't give me that "hard dick no choice" bullshit, either. I have one too, and I'm not buying it.

17 years into my relationship (13 married), my sexual needs are met so thoroughly it's ridiculous. And in ways I'd NEVER have anticipated when I was where you are. And what that took was me GROWING UP. Stop being a five year old with a hard-on, and start being a grown man. That's my advice. The minute I did that, suddenly I got what I wanted--including everything I didn't even have the balls at the time to say that I wanted.

What ratbastid said.

Book it. Done.

This all sounds similar to my situation with my wife although we never had sex everyday at any point in our relationship.

I never thought that I was getting enough sex. I would do all the nice things like she asked and maybe or maybe not we had sex.

Then she asked me why I thought everything I did should lead to sex. I told her it didn't and that if she liked I would stop "pressuring her to have sex". Once the "pressure" by me stopped, the sex stopped. I got to the point in our mid 20's that we had sex exactly every other Saturday night. It would mostly be initiated by her since she wanted me to stop trying to get laid so much. This irritated the hell out of me.

Eventually this dwindled to once per month. Once she really took notice about how badly this bothered me and I was really considering leaving the marriage, she tried to give me the sex I always wanted. Only problem with that is that I had become so bitter over it that it wasn't fun. It was also obvious to me that her utter lack of sex drive over 10 years meant that while she was trying to please me, she didn't want or desire to do it. Over the course of about 10 years of living together (3 married) we are now separating.

To the OP, I say stick with it for now if you love her. Getting sex 2-3 times a week after seven years together is pretty damn good. However, if you are not happy, get the fuck out before you waste all of you 20's like I did.

...2 to 3 times a week....

...lucky....

(Oh, and what ratbastid said.)

Get used to having blue balls unless you take the advice that ratbastid is giving you...

And yes, 2 to 3 times a week? A luxury. Try being 40 and getting it a couple times a month if you are lucky.

I would say that 2-3 times a week is average, even at your age, even for someone with a high sex drive.

In your first few years together, you were 15. You had nothing important to do, school was probably a breeze compared to the responsibilities you have now, your parents fed clothed and cleaned up after you, your pubescent bodies were brand-new and exciting, and your 'nads were pumping out hormones like Old Faithful.

Now you are 23 and LIFE has reared its ugly head. Stress and work are major buzzkills, and she likely has less than a quarter as much free time now as she did then. Unless she has no other interests in life besides fucking your brains out, then she is going to be spending less time sexing you simply because she HAS less time, even if all other circumstances are the same (unlikely).

It is unreasonable to expect your lady to behave as though she is 15 when she is 23. Period.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Couldn't have said it better if I tried. Welcome to the REAL world of being a MAN and respecting your girlfriend instead of using her for your own selfish pleasure. A relationship goes both ways. And trust me, 2-3 times a week is good. If you can't sleep with a boner, then rub one off and shut up.

Yup 2~3 times a week would be heaven for most married guys. Count your blessings or move on.

I love you ratbastid, will you marry me?

...

I mean, well done, exactly what I wanted to say :D

ditto...err i mean..well said ratbastid :surprised:



to the OP.. have you ever a fleshlight?

Go buy the Kama Sutra and read it from cover to cover, then read it a gain, then read it again.

You sound like someone with a mild sex addiction. Which usually stems from the feeling of power and euphoria experienced through sex. The Kama Sutra will teach you ways to intensify and prolong the feelings so you aren't Jonesing for it so often. That is for you (although she's gonna like it too). For her and your relationship find a new interest for the two of you to enjoy. It will bring both of you closer emotionally, which will help her to 'relax' more often, and you to better understand her.

She should be your best friend, why would you want to put that kind of pressure on your best friend?

If you can't just hang-out and enjoy each others company without the pressure of 'getting some', you need to re-evaluate your relationship. People change and neither of you are who you were when you were 16. Adapt and overcome or get the hell out of dodge.

From personal experience; if she once had the sex drive you still have, she likely still does. It's just being crushed by life and responsibility. The more you can do to help her carry that burden, the happier you both shall be. Just try to keep in mind that there are two of you in the relationship, if one is unhappy, the other is likely to feel unhappy as well. It's very possible that your discontent is feeding her discontent and making things worse. Fix yourself and go from there.


Brock


..

I read this thread when it went up and started to write a post that could be summarised as:

1 - count your blessings, you're getting more than most guys, and bitching it's not enough.
2 - think about her feelings, you're making her feel like crap with your pressure, ease off.
3 - if it's hard, and she doesn't want to help, learn to be a man, and ignore it, or have a wank.

I deleted.

Today I came to post it having decide it was good sense after all, and see that Ratty has said it for me, and pointed out a number of things that I wouldn't have said (but totally agree with).

Janie, dlish, I'll marry you both. :icare:

Jeez Rat... save some people for the rest of us to marry.

This is just one of the reason's I've grown to love, admire and respect you in the last five years. You're an honor to men everywhere.

To the OP I cant fathom the thinking that just because your dick gets hard you need to get off....I just cant

ratbastid my admiration for you only seems to increase every time I read one of your posts. If you didn't already have the (is it now up to 4 with Janie and dlish?) partner I would ask to marry you as well but now you won't have any time for me :p

OP

That sentence there and the fact that you did not mention that you were even attempting to be romantic during the original post leads me to believe that you're not trying at all until she mentions it and then you're over doing it. That just leads to more pressure on her, because she knows you don't actually mean any of the little romantic gestures they're just a slightly more suave version of walking up clubbing her over the head and dragging her into your cave for sexorz.

If you have the spare time try to organise a class or something that you know she will like - it gives you two some time together in a social situation where at the same time you're spending personal time together away from your 'normal' social circle. That means you two have time together doing something that she enjoys and will relax her where there is NO pressure on her sexually.

That says that you just want to spend time with her because you love her, not for sex. That's what she's asking for.

As for the woe is me attitude when she's having her period - get over it. Believe it or not a period is not necessarily painless, you can get amazingly intense stomach cramps that can travel all the way through to your spine, nausea, headaches, stabbing pains actually through your genitalia and no matter how you sit, lie, stand you're going to feel miserable for a few days. Hot water bottles and chocolate don't always cut it.

So is any wonder that while she's undergoing this she doesn't feel like jumping you, especially if she becomes more sensitive sexually when she's menstruating? Maybe sexual congress is actually p[ainful for her at that time and you should be freaking grateful she's willing to give you BJ's or hand jobs during that time?


As for BS - if you're tired you'll sleep whether you've had sex or not. An erection is not the mysterious magical thing you seem to be making it out to be. Take your cock off the pedestal you've placed it on and understand that its every desire doesn't have to be fulfilled.

I am sooo glad this post was started and I am eternally grateful to all the wise and mature men who have answered this. im2smrt4u and I have been having this discussion lately, it cracks me up. He told me about the post and said that he knew he was never gonna live down the fact that so many people said what I have been saying. :lol: I love the boy!

To the OP listen to her and to everyone else here they are wise people and you can learn a lot from them, I know I have. My guy has the same problem it seems, I can always tell when he is wanting/needing some because his mood is very distinctive during these times. I HATE his attitude during these times hes moppy and grouchy and more bitter than usual, is there a chance that you are acting in a similar fashion? If so I can tell you from experience this makes me want to have sex even less. You don't give your kid a cookie when they are throwing a tantrum why do you expect to get sex when your acting this way?

We are 24 have been dating for 6yrs, I was a fiend in the beginning, think I wanted it more than he did. Flashforward six years, I am more stressed, on bc, work, and go to school. Plus to top it all off hes a day person and I'm a night owl, I am horny at 1am, hes in a deep coma by that point. Realize that after this long in a relationship she is comfortable and take comfort in the fact that shes happy just to have you around and sit and keep her company.

Don't push sex, sex shouldn't be the most important thing in a relationship, if it is your relationship will fail. Sex fades true understanding love will only grow. If all you have nourished is your sex life when that fades away you will be left staring at each other wondering what the hell happened. Her sex drive will at some point over take yours...be prepared and hope karma doesn't come back to bite you in the ass.

Ratbastid, your situation eventually lead to you having threeways with your wife and with your wife's girlfriend, right? I strongly suspect that your advice would be much different if your patience had lead to you having sex 2-3 times a week, or perhaps twice a month, with only your wife.

cajeff, I agree with the comments that you shouldn't expect sex everytime you get an erection. However, I see a red flag if your girlfriend is only 23 and is already satisfied with sex 2-3 times a week. It's possible that the situation might improve, but that's not something that I would bet on.

Not every girl is the same I just turned 24 and I know how she feels. I am in no way frigid, but I am satisfied at this point in my life with sex 2-3 times per week. Being satisfied does not mean that we don't want more but if this is all time and energy affords us I am content just to have my fiance there when I need him. Maybe its just me but cuddling, talking and connecting more on an emotional level is just as sexually satisfying as out right banging one out.

Women and men have different sex drives...point blank and every woman is different. My best friend wants it everyday, while my other friend and her fiance have sex about once a month (they both attend UCLA Law, so not much time). Everyone is different and everyones life puts them in different situations.

well Cajeff - i don't know about you - but I learned alot from your experience. mostly from between what ratbastid and starkizzer said. been married 24 years - aint seen 3 times a week since the early nineties - unlike the ratster, I personally don't expect much improvement for me. but for you who knows by showing a little respect and genuine appreciation, and developing a relationship based on more diverse interests, you may find a good balance and grow to count your blessings. all i know is that i'm gonna watch out for that mopey signal stuff - as starkizzer so astutley identified - and cut that shit out! may very well help improve the situation all around

You crack me up, friend.

You really think that Rat went from deeply dissatisfied and troubled in his sex life to happy blissful troilism in the space of a day, because his wife hooked up?


To the OP:

Every post you make shows that you are concerned about what is wrong with the woman that you claim to love. Here's a life lesson - love someone for who they are not who you think you can make them.

You need to learn empathy, sympathy, understanding, and giving without counting the cost or expecting reward.

You need to learn to listen to your partner, not your tumescent organ.

You need to learn to want her to be happy so she's happy, not to give the appearance that you want her to be happy so she'll be your cock-socket.

All in all you need to grow up, and have an adult relationship.

If you can fake being an adult and deserving of love, you may find you like it.


And all this talk reminded me of an old joke:

Q: What is the difference between light and hard?

A: I can sleep with a light on.

Maybe so. I don't deny for a second that I'm the luckiest summbitch on the planet. But think for a moment about whether our boy cajeff here has the SLIGHTEST chance of ending up where I've ended up, given how he's being about it. Given where I started from and my curent um situation, you'd think my advice would carry all the more weight, woudn't you?

Just so your timeline's right, I was dating StellaLuna before lurkette joined us. Not by long, but still. Imagine THAT happening with cajeff's wife's blessing!

Oh, and Hyacinthe? I'd marry you in a HEARTBEAT, babe. Damn polygamy laws.

On related subject, the three of us are having what we're calling a "wedding" in March. Other poly people call such a thing a "commitment ceremony", which sounds a little like they'll put you in a straight jacket at the end of it. So morally, spiritually, the three of us are creating being married, even if it carries no legal status. We're also setting up things like powers of attorney and mutual beneficiary status on insurance and stuff--getting as much legal weight to our relationship as society will stand for.

:thumbsup:

I need to use that more often. (pardon the pun)

Starkizzer, I understand what you're saying and agree for the most part. My thinking is what if cajeff's girlfriends sex drive continues to wane, will he wind up with a woman who is satisified with sex once a month?



I don't believe that I said or hinted that ratbastid was ever "deeply dissatisfied and troubled in his sex life." I stand by my original post--Rat's advice might be very different if he had wound up in a 17 year long conventional monogamous relationship and marriage.



[QUOTE=ratbastid;2578124]Maybe so. I don't deny for a second that I'm the luckiest summbitch on the planet. But think for a moment about whether our boy cajeff here has the SLIGHTEST chance of ending up where I've ended up, given how he's being about it. Given where I started from and my curent um situation, you'd think my advice would carry all the more weight, woudn't you?...[QUOTE]

Actually, no, I do not. You're in a very unique situation, & I don't see how you can tell cajeff to quit whining, grow up, and be happy having sex 2-3 times a week. I'm also not reading in cajeff's post where he's putting undue pressure on his GF for sex.

I think she must feel like she is getting pressure from him or else she wouldn't have sent him the email. There's really no telling why it has changed and since we cannot here her reasoning behind it we can't completely judge the situation all the members here can do is give him some advice.

If anything I hope, cajeff, you can at least take from this thread that there may be things you can do or try not to do to make things better. You obviously cares for her or else you wouldn't have stayed with her for this long. IMO your best bet is to sit down with her and have a calm talk about it and find out if she can give you any real advice or tell you what/if you are doing anything to sabotage your prospects. Try to keep the other aspects of your relationship strong and hopefully the rest will fall into place.

I want to point out here that there are many other factors affecting sex drive other than age. Just because she is satisfied with 2-3 times a week right now doesn't mean that it will continue to decline. If she's stressed with work and school that will have a big effect on her libido, not to mention Cajeff's complaints about not being satisfied. Rather than speculating about what her libido will be like in the future, maybe he should be doing what he can to keep from pressuring her.

That sounds great Ratbastid, congratulations.

Personally, I'd say Ratbastid's opinion should carry more weight, after all he has not one but two women in his life.

As for the OP: Grow up. You're not a teenage boy anymore and she's not a teenage girl, things change. You have to be flexible and understanding or you will not get anywhere in an adult relationship. You may be trying to be romantic for a couple days when she brings it up but that doesn't help, it's a constant thing and it cannot be attached to your gratification or it won't make her feel any better. Take everyone's advice, we have a lot of wise members here.

Thing is, I was. And where things have ended up for me--unique though they are--was a function of how I dealt with it. Obviously YMMV, and I can only speak from where I speak from.

If I'd never grown up myself, and my marriage had headed on the path of what was predictable then, I'd probably be single now and it would be all her fault, and yeah, I'd probably have something very different to say to cajeff. I'd probably sympathize, agree it's a shame those damn women don't wax our poles the way we want, and then we could all cry into our beers together. Instead, I say: grow the fuck up and excuse me while I go have my first threesome of 2009. :thumbsup:

You think continuing to whine about his poor hard cock is going to get him what he wants? How well do you think that's been working for him so far?

I never said be happy with sex 2-3 times a week. Other people said that, but I didn't. I don't think he should settle for anything. My point is: it's his job, not his wife's, to make sure things work between them. Whining about things not working and making it her fault will surely keep things as they are or have them devolve. That's literally all I'm saying.

Sex 2-3 times per week is a good amount.

And when you find yourself in a situation where you have a hard dick and don't know what to do about it, go ahead and take care of it yourself and don't put all the pressure on your girlfriend.

This was the only response necessary. All the belittling and trivializing that went on in this thread served no purpose.

The guy posts two genuine posts in this thread, and gets treated like a creep who's verging on emotionally raping his girlfriend.

What purpose did that serve?

Seeing as I happen to be one of the few who bothered to read the original post before responding, I'll tell you what would have been the standard answer that people used to give around here before the norm became dog-piling on a new member who happened to ask a fair question: communicate.

As ratbastid *used* to say, the first sign of trouble in a relationship is a sudden change in the frequency of sex.

Talk with her. At the foundation of every solid relationship is good communication skills. From the sounds of it, something is going on there that she just isn't comfortable saying. You need to let her know that it's okay for her to be honest and talk about it. She may not open up completely right away, but it's the only way to resolve this. Bottling everything up, for either and/or both of you, is a sure path towards resentment and further problems down the road.

Yes, the mass of postings saying you won't always get laid because you've got a hard-on are correct, but from the sounds of it, you already knew that, you just want to figure out what happened, and that's fair to ask as it's a sudden and unexpected change.


--------------------------------------

And now, an off-topic rant about the rest of this thread. I can't even begin to express the level of disappointment I have in this thread right now, but I'm not the least bit surprised. I've been on this site for a long time, at least twice as long as many who like to wax nostalgic about, "the good old days." When the hell did every post become one giant circle-jerk where the entire purpose was for everyone to pounce on the new members who happen to ask a question that doesn't fit into the group-think's narrow world view?

It's these sorts of attack posts on newer members that continue to alienate new members and drive long standing ones away in disgust. You don't agree with the guy, fine, say so, but don't beat and belittle him into the ground and then continue to stomp on him.

That's why I don't bother posting much any more. Seems kind of futile to be the only one who wants to bother to help people while everyone else seems to enjoy ripping them to shreds just to feel better about themselves.

:thumbsup:Truth :thumbsup:.


More truth :thumbsup:.

"Attack" is in the eye of the beholder, gents. Same behavior could also be called "tough love".

As I started my first post on this thread with (a sentiment that evidently didn't hold up under the heat of the rest of the post), I said to him EXACTLY what I wish somebody'd said to me when things were going that way in my relationship, in EXACTLY the way I wish they'd said it. It would have stung, but it would have made a difference.

Whilst I agree that it may have seemed overly hard, I think that the thread has gone deeper than the simple (but true) advice that he should reduce the pressure.

I think that there were some good points raised here about communication, satisfaction, the insidiousness of being romantic only in order that she have sex (or if not "only" then at least "partly").

My take on this thread is that the OP is in a place many of us have inhabited previously and some of us were trying to show him the map of how to get out of it.

"Take care of it yourself" is a METHOD, but it's not a ROUTE.

I hope that makes sense.

I had a terrible feeling when I first read this thread, but until I came back this morning and saw this quote I didn't know why. Spectre you've nailed it. What's up with TFP'ers congratulating each other on being unnecessarily harsh to other members? Geez.

This is not to say that the advice given by some is not good advice.

The groupthink and/or piling on that often characterizes the Political forum is now showing its ugliness here.

I think most of the responders here tried to tell him the key was communication just in different ways. Perhaps not all were done with the most tact or sensitivity. I know in my case I tried to give him an insight on his situation by discussing my own which seems to resemble his very closely.

Also it seems to me that most of the responses to posters problems, especially those with SO's, is just communication. There are only so many ways we can say "go talk to the other person". However if were that easy I'm sure most people are bright enough to do just that, they must be coming to tilted for more than just the same old "communicate" advice. IMO people request advice and opinions on things because they want just that advice and opinions from fellow tfp'ers. I've also noticed lately that a stock answer to some peoples' requests or questions is googleing it. I think thats more lame than a group of members who have not talked before hand giving their advice that seems to be the same.

I was honestly expecting other members to come on and give different views but it appears that only the ones with the same opinion posted. Maybe "driving home" an opinion is a bit much but I would think that it might show his gf is not alone in her thoughts but nor is he alone in his thoughts and wants of wanting more sex, just very few told him so.

I know I wasn't trying to belittle him, hell I want more sex than I am giving out but everything else in my life is preventing me from achieving this. Everyone wants more sex I think or at least likes the idea of it. I hope and cheer for him that he does get more and hope its from the girls he so seems to love. So I guess what I'm saying ultimately is good luck cajeff!

+1 :thumbsup:

Almost my experience exactly. My quite healthy sex drive was killed during my marriage. I quit pressuring her for sex, and gave her massages, made her dinner, etc. etc. She just took my lack of insistence as a get out of sex free card, and just quit. I became self-sufficient, heh ( and ouch ). Getting sex out of a sense of duty isn't much better, if it is, than masturbation......

But damn man, 2 or 3 times a week is GOOD!!!! Try 2 or 3 times a year


EDIT: Before I sound like a complete douche.... I stuck it out for years, and finally we're divorced. I have reason to believe that her lack of drive was that I was the wrong gender for her. I learned this from evidence on my computer that she left behind. Wish she felt confident enough in me to tell me, but I guess it takes time..... I still love her, and don't blame her for what she has no control over, but the damage ( mostly self esteem ) seems to be done to me. More time for hobbies I guess..... My experience is not universal

Ask not what your relationship can do for you, ask what you can do for your relationship.

Seriously, your entire OP is focused on "me, me, me!" I found my marriage to be far more fulfilling when I learned that it was my job to "give" to my wife. When you want to give, you suddenly listen to what you need to give. This creates a better understanding of your mate and your focus on giving and making her life easier will eliminate many of the stressors that disrupt her life and intimacy. Take your focus off of what you want, and you may just end up with the exact thing THAT you want. Your "me, me, me" attitude is the common element to countless failed relationships world-wide.

Disclaimer: Focusing on giving should not mean allowing yourself to be taken advantage of.

Thanks for the disclaimer. A lot of the posts here, not just in this thread, SEEM to imply that you should just do everything for the woman, BUT there are two people in a relationship. What is the woman doing for you? ( please don't just read sex into that, either ) It's just as important for a man to be treasured by his partner, right? Quite often men get left out of that equation, and all they have left is sex, which is pitiful.

But again, be realistic, there are pressures ( on both people ) and they are not always conducive to a teenage-type sextravaganza. If sex truly drops down to zero, and it can, let me tell you, then you really do have a problem.

bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

heh

I agree that in no way should it be all about one person in the relationship. For instance, while im2smrt4u may not get sex nearly as often as he would like I try to show him I appreciate him and love him in other ways. I cook us diner every night, I do the laundry, go with him to by his fancy beers (can't carry very many on a motorcycle) and the list goes on. He does nice things for me as well and while we may not always do what the other person would like to show our love to each other we do try and know that the things we do are out of love.

So now its just a matter of tweaking what we do to be more in line with what the other person would like. Steven's late grandma, I miss that woman, said she read a book that talked about how every one feels love in different ways and needs those things to feel truly loved. For some it is touch, others its time, talking, etc. I think there were 5 in total but I don't remember them all. Steven is definitely touch while I am time and talking. Its important to figure out what the other person needs and what you need as well.

Everyone is basically telling this guy to stop pressuring his girlfriend to have sex. I think good advice, better ways to get the pussy than putting pressure on it!:thumbsup:

But i have a feel this post above is what the reality is for most men in similar situations, not that the women is the closest/denial like above but that if he stops pressuring it will go to zero sex life.

Not sure what to say, but i think 2-3 times a week is not that bad assuming a busy schedule...etc.



there are two people in a relationship (or three if your ratbastid). A lot of the responses make it seem like he is to give up everything he wants and wait on her hand and foot in hopes the pussy carrot comes out in the end. Or if he simple turns off his sexual desires she'll become an animal!

Someday like above those men will realize there giving everything, giving up everything but getting nothing back in return. A relationship consists of two people's wants/needs and desires. If someone's is not being fulfilled then trouble is a brewing regardless of how many times you do the laundry or take her out to dinner.

i'm horrified by how emasculated men have become in general. sure, every relationship has it's individual traits and every couple will get various different things they need out of being with each other. that said, the whole point of a relationship is abstaining from sex with everyone else so that the 2 of you can grow more intimate emotionally in a secure environment. with that comes a responsibility to fullfill your partners needs. otherwise, why commit?

i say you set the bar early, and as a man it's your job to do that and stick to your guns when tested on the boundaries you set. in general, women have a fundamental need for mostly emotional attention and men have the same need of physical affection. relationships get very damaged when either partner withholds one from the other, especially as punishment or "as a weapon".

i don't think it's unreasonable at all to establish "sex-on-demand" in any relationship. the complication comes when you don't define this kind of thing and than fight over where to set the bar your whole relationship after that.

wow, talk about enthusiastically missing the point.

you said it yourself: "women have a fundamental need for mostly emotional attention and men have the same need of physical affection."
the point that has been made repeatedly on this thread is that a man shouldn't expect 'sex on demand' (nice, by the way) without fulfilling the emotional needs of his partner.

the fact that you frame female reluctance towards sex as 'withholding...as punishment or as a weapon' indicates a certain level of immaturity in your outlook which is amply reflected in the rest of your post.

Immaturity from who? Oh, yeah... from sex partners who wanna play emotional chess.

I disagree with your conclusion. People aren't that smart. We often use our partner's weaknesses against them like petty little children who know the right names to call our enemies to hurt them, ya big loser-face. Despite the fact that every sex therapist, shrink, TeeVee doctor, and magazine from Cosmo to Men's Health says that partners on the rocks shouldn't cut off sex activities, women sometimes do it anyway because they figure it's a real attention-getter for the man in their life. I could be wrong, I read somewhere that women enjoy sex as much as men despite the fact that their urges are more emotional instead of more "animal."

Sex-B-Gone! Oh, it's an attention-getter, alright... the wrong f'n kind. It's the kind of situation that makes the guy think he's being cheated on, that there are deep psychological issues at play beyond just the bullshit excuse of "I'm not 100% happy," and that he'd be better staying single next time instead of turning his access to intimacy from mutual desire into a bloody Rorschach test every goddamn time. The frustration of having a partner who shuts down physically as well as emotionally is devastating. It is my belief that a prolonged lack of physical affection in a relationship is simply the "turned off" partner creating an emotional buffer so they don't feel as bad when they spread the good news of, "You're single again! Yay! Now here's some trash bags for your worldly possessions! Kthxbai!"

It's one thing to feel like crap about a relationship and tell your partner that you're not happy because of x, y, z... but when you treat your partner like you've already kicked them to the curb and they've not been formally clued in as to why, that's immature.

If I've learned one thing from TFP since I've been here: "When the sex goes, so should you."
-----Added 18/1/2009 at 12 : 03 : 06-----
Maybe it is that simple when you're 20-30-maybe-40. I like emotional stuff in my relationships and I reinforce that desire for connection with physical affection. "I like you. I'm giving you a hug." Just sometimes hug is changed out with "oral sex."

...

I wouldn't say "abstaining from sex." I'd say "abstaining from desire." That's the goal, anyway. To settle for one person.

...

See, men have been "emasculated" because having balls is politically incorrect.

...

The problem with that "responsibility to fulfill your partner's needs" thing is that a lot of us are self-centered quitters out here. "I'm not getting what I want and I don't care what my partner has done for me because it doesn't really matter."

...

Stereotypes be damned. Men want sex and women don't know what the hell they want.

i would come to the conclusion that there's some unbridgeable chasm between male and female thinking on this issue, but ratbastid seems to get it.

"Despite the fact that every sex therapist, shrink, TeeVee doctor, and magazine from Cosmo to Men's Health says that partners on the rocks shouldn't cut off sex activities, women sometimes do it anyway because they figure it's a real attention-getter for the man in their life. I could be wrong, I read somewhere that women enjoy sex as much as men despite the fact that their urges are more emotional instead of more "animal.""

again pointing out that women need the emotional turn-on yet failing to connect the lack of emotional turn-on in a relationship with lack of sexual desire. some women use sex as a weapon for sure (so do some men), but projecting that onto every instance of a woman not flipping onto her back on command is just the tiniest bit lazy and self-centred.

How do law-abiding, civilized men use sex as a weapon?

As far as I can tell... they use it as a lame excuse, but not a weapon.

Enlighten me.

...

I agree. Assuming that men want a woman who "flips on her back - on command" is a little silly. We're people, too.

Its no sillier than this comment

*Hugs Shani*

Thank you for pointing this out!

Has anybody seen my irony? It seems to have not found its way into this thread.

Point blank no one is perfect and even if you happen to find the "perfect" person for you there may still be things that happen in your relationship that you wish could be better or different. This in no way implies your a bad person or expect too much from your partner. Men can be just as fickle as women and women can want sex just as much as men.

Is she on the pill?
 

The pill can decimate a woman's sex drive. I know from firsthand experience. After several years on the pill, my libido was to the point I would have happily taken the "get out of sex free card"... and it's fortunate (for BOTH of us) that my partner didn't buy into the whole "kick her to the curb" mentality. Am now off the pill and things are improving.

If she's on the pill, Google it and start thinking about other kinds of birth control. We hate condoms, so I chart my cycle now (symptothermal) to know when I'm fertile or not.

I'm new here, but saw this thread and had to throw this concept out there.

i never said anything about a one-way street. my whole point is that it's just as wrong if a guy watches tv while his gf tells him about her day or a an argument she had with a co-worker as it is for a woman to hold out sex on a guy.

maybe i could use more flowery language than "on-demand" or "weapon", but regardless of the degree of power or how good it might feel, holding back the implicit things that we sign on to provide our gf or bf is never anything but destructive to the bond you're trying to build on to begin with. and unfortunately this happens all too often because these things are left undefined going into a relationship. therefore i personally try to hash that out in communication up front and i recommend that to anyone else.

the biggest reason people end up feeling stifled or crushed by commitments and relationshops they're in is that they haven't defined what that means to them

Yes, I had the same problem on the pill and depo-provera. I completely lost my sex drive. Now that I have an IUD, I am an animal. My sex drive is higher than my SO's.

I've herd this enough around here.

"You know what they call people who use the rhythm method.....

Parents"

You can be fertile at anytime during your cycle. What you have charted are just your most fertile days.

Yeah, keep in mind that Depo Provera is what they use on sex offenders to keep them from being hungry for little kids.

That is what made me stop taking it, when I found out it's what they use to chemically castrate men.

Actually, what I was talking about is different from the rhythm method. Basically the rhythm method is calendar-based. There is a more modern version called the Standard Days Method -- Wikipedia has a good article on it -- but that's not what I'm talking about either.

This is actually not true. You are fertile from about three days before ovulation until about 24 hours after ovulation. The trick is in figuring out when ovulation occurs, because you can't rely on the assumption that it's day 14. It may vary from woman to woman and cycle to cycle...

What I do is monitor (a) my basal body temperature and (b) what my cervix is doing. I'll spare you guys the gory bodily-fluid details; the temperature is the main thing. When a woman ovulates, her basal body temperature goes up and stays up for the rest of the cycle. After three days of sustained higher temperatures, she's considered to be in the post-ovulatory infertile phase; the egg is only viable for about 24 hours after ovulation, and you only ovulate once per cycle. This is all thoroughly researched and documented out there. (There is a pre-ovulatory infertile phase as well, but that is a little more complicated to determine and a little riskier.)

Reputable sources put the method failure rate at about 2%. The "typical use" failure rate is higher, but that includes when people misunderstand the rules, make mistakes in charting, or throw caution to the winds and have sex on fertile days. I am fanatical about not getting pregnant, seriously detail-oriented, and of questionable fertility anyway -- due to age and other factors -- so believe me, I will not be becoming a parent. If in doubt, I don't risk it.

It was fairly well mind-blowing to realize at the age of 39 that I'm only fertile for a few days each cycle. Add a few days' buffer zone on either side of that, and I still have a decent-sized window where I can have sex without fear of pregnancy. It's too bad I didn't know this when I was younger.

Various well-intentioned people want us to believe we're fertile ALL THE TIME so we won't take chances and wind up with an unintended pregnancy. But it's just not true. Your body tells you when it's fertile, if you know what signs to look for.

Wow I don't think I could have expressed a similar feeling any better. I have decreased my posting significantly...mostly due to some of the nasty responses people send. There comes a point where one doesn't want to deal with it. Hopefully the OP won't be too traumatized by this...

However despite the ugliness of certain advice being put out there it does have relevance.

J and I have been going through a similar situation...but when he listened to what I was feeling it improved significantly. There were times where my drive was through the roof and his not so much. Now it's opposite. We're dealing with it. The main problem was him constantly trying to get to the romping part. It made me not even want to kiss him for the fear of him trying to lead it to sex when I wasn't up for it. There are times when we ladies just want to kiss and cuddle without the sex. I know I do. But when the man is trying to get into your pants EVERY time it's a turn off. Let her come to you. That's my advice.

It's like the stock market...let it self regulate!

Oh my, sorry, this is funny. But it works.

Sometimes you have to look ahead and know when to "park things in cash." You don't always have to be in the market; you're going to get burned if you're always putting yourself out there, thinking everything will work out on its own.

It's not about getting the payoff time and time again. Sometimes you have to know when to keep your dignity and your desires, rather than lose them to unseen forces.

See? It works. I like it.

You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em...?

Pretty much. A successful sex life within a long-term monogamous relationship is like wise money management when you have a considerable portfolio...and you've read (and re-read, and abide by) Benjamin Graham's Intelligent Investor.

threadjack:

Are you factoring the time sperm can survive into your calculations, in addition to the more general buffer zone?

From Mayo Clinic:

"The life span of sperm after they're ejaculated depends on the environmental conditions. Sperm ejaculated into a woman's vagina remain alive in the mucus of the cervix and are able to fertilize an egg for three to five days"

Sperm: How long do they live after ejaculation? - MayoClinic.com

/threadjack

as something women want..but can't necessarily get......are you that naive?

Apparently so. Maybe you can help me out here.

Please detail situations where women want sex and can't find a partner. Also include realistic statistics. If the woman weighs 400 pounds or the man is sub 3.5" in the cock-a-lock-a range... it may throw off your argument a little.

The "I'm in a relationship and can't get sex!" excuse is total bullshit... whining that is best reserved for the "Post Your Emo" thread. Either resort to TFP Universal Response #1 (Communication!) or resort to Crompsin Universal Excuse #2 (Pack everything you own into cheap drawstring trashbags).

In the name of the father, and the son, and the Giant Hamburger... I have seen the reproductive organs of both sexes and have determined that sex is like baseball: somebody throws and somebody catches. Guys can throw all they want, but if a girl doesn't wanna play catch... you don't have much of a game.

This is a most quotable quote.

Tried that. We then hardly ever had sex.

We are now separated and just waiting for the state mandated 1 year to pass before divorce can be finalized.

OK, "let her come to you", just doesn't work. Why is is 100% the woman's prerogative? Why does a man just have to be on standby?

There are times, believe it or not, when a man might not be up for it, but when the woman wants it, we give it our best. Why can't a woman, every once in a while, do the same? I know you are going to say that they do, but, in my experience, and apparently the experience of a large number of other men, women do not. They only want things when they want them, which is human, and the personal selfishness of all Americans......

If you are in a relationship, there must be give and take from both sides. You must both be willing to do things you might not want to do, but will do to please the other partner. If you are not willing to do these things: sex, yardwork, housework, watching stupid TV shows, etc. , then you shouldn't be in a relationship at all.

I know it is not true of all women, but I'm tempted to say most, in this country, but women think it is the man's responsibility to serve them. Trust me, sex is good, but it is not worth the crap most women put us through to get it. There are very good reasons that some men look for more "traditional" women in other countries to marry. It's not to get a sex-slave, but to get a woman that understands that a partnership requires work on her part too.

Disclaimer: I said that as a man. I'm certain that a lot of women feel the same way about thier men. Our selfish culture goes both ways.

+1

Compromise: Americanz are doin' it wrong.

Thank you. this guy said what i was talking about in a less boorish way. As an American guy, I'm fed up with American women in general. not that i won't date them as a rule, but they're lowest on my totem pole of preferences.

There's a sense of entitlement in American women that completely scrambles a healthy dynamic of macho and feminine in relationships that make it more enjoyable for both partners.

and i'm not saying that as a cave man. i blame American guys just as much for putting up with it. but at the end of the day, most South American and Asian and even Euro women can somehow cope in the pc equal rights world and still come home and be a wife or girlfriend and not always a princess. and that's a good thing.

i guess this post is a slight threadjack, but it does come back to the point i'm rallying, and that is for both partners to specifically define what they need from the other, both in quality and especially quantity, otherwise the relationship becomes based on the epic saga of defining that nebulous thing, and not centered on growing together as couple.

A good question. I was factoring that in as "three days" before ovulation, but the source you cite says 3-5; I'll have to take a look at that.

I thought the cervical mucus thing might be TMI :eek:, but since you bring it up -- basically the rule is, as soon as "fertile" cervical mucus shows up, you have to consider yourself fertile because the sperm can survive in it (as you say) for a number of days, meaning you can get pregnant if you have sex a couple days before ovulating and fertile CM is present.

Different women have different standards on what constitutes fertile cervical mucus, based on what they observe over time in their cycles -- CM can have various consistencies. Typically, at the beginning of the cycle no CM is present, and then you get a type of CM that is not hospitable to sperm. Next you typically get what they call "eggwhite" -- which is VERY hospitable to sperm in its pH and consistency, and easy to distinguish from the other kind. I usually get eggwhite about 4 days before my temperatures confirm that I've ovulated. So I don't have unprotected sex when that stuff is present, and in fact, to be on the safe side I abstain when I detect any CM at all (before ovulation). With my short cycle, this pretty much means the pre-ovulatory infertile period is brief or non-existent... but better safe than sorry.

Apologies if this is TMI for anyone. If anyone's contemplating trying this method, read "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" -- there is more to learn than the broad outline I've sketched out. Bottom line is, this method takes careful attention, but if you want to avoid hormonal BC and hate condoms, it may be worth looking into.

as something to withhold if they don't get what they want. gee, you're sure ignorant for someone who's attempting to come off as intelligent.
-----Added 23/1/2009 at 04 : 35 : 47-----
mmmm..it's real sad that you can't find anyone to play on your level just yet. but i think perhaps in time you're gonna have to find a playmate on the same tier or else you're gonna get real lonely. good luck.

oh, snarky judge of all that's proper and holy and pc in this world....

thank you for putting us in our immature ignorant places. now get in that kitchen and knit me a sweater.

---

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- If you disagree with someone, address their argument/opinion, rather than resorting to personal attacks. If someone steps out of line, ignore it and notify a moderator. Get back to the issue and stop with the personal attacks.

Thanks. If I've learned anything from this thread, it's that things... gender relations... never change.

Not just picking on American women. I've met some very fine ones. American men are a bit screwed up too, which might have had something to do with the women....

Let's just say WE have some issues that WE need to work on. ( Believe it or not, I'm not perfect )

I agree with you guys in a sense I really do because sure occasionally a girl / woman isn't in the mood but a few touches here or there can change that and all she has to do is sit back and let you work for a few min til she's interested enough to start reciprocating. Or hell go out on a limb and think "well why not it's only a couple of hrs or so of sleep I'll loose"

If it was a few times a week (up to 4 - 5) then I don't have a problem with that - heck I think most of the time in my relationships it has been the other way around - I tend to be the one jumping my partner. I just don't agree with the idea of sex on demand solely from a female partner which is what has been suggested in this thread. If you want to have that then you also need to accept that what is good for the goose is good for the gander and if you're not in the mood and your other half wants some then you have to be willing to perform to.

My major argument with the OP in this was the fact that he wants sex everyday from his GF but is obviously not fulfilling what she wants from the relationship. So if he's not willing to try to give her what she wants out of the relationship (emotional closeness) then why should she give him what he wants? Petty most definitely but people are unfortunately like that some times, I like to tell myself it's probably subconciously because otherwise it's way too depressing. And ofcourse the "I can't sleep without sex comment" sorry but that struck me as ridiculous and hence was the reason I made an undiplomatic comment - the rest of my post was actually meant to be practical advice on how to meet his GF's needs so she'd be more willing to meet his.

Relationships are about give and take from both parties, that means that unless you're in a lifetime D&s relationship it should not be entirely about EITHER participant in the relationship but about both of you.

Not being American and having met very few Americans except online I can't say much about American women specifically but I know that I and my female associates / friends here don't want guys to act as servants. We want a strong man, mentally, emotionally and morally. Someone who will call us on our BS.

I've had relationships where all I got was a yes man someone who will agree with me and do what i want without question - they drive me mental! If I wanted unconditional surrender and love I would get a puppy not a partner.

Basically guys don't tar all women with that single brush - sure there are women out there like that but there are also men who look at women and see nothing but a couple of warm holes for their pleasure - I / We don't judge you to their standard so please don't judge us by theirs.

You have obviously never met my ex-wife.

I tried what you say, but never got the chance to warm her up. It was always. I am tired, I am trying to go to sleep, or a slap of my hand or anything else.

I gave up.

I'm way late to this party. Lots of good points have been made, and responses to the OP are enlightening to illustrate the general intensity of feelings about sex. Romance (feeling special, loved, needed, attractive, etc.) is something we ALL need, and so is sexual intimacy. God's joke on us was to make romance drive sexual desire for women, while making sexual intimacy drive romance for men. No matter. We each should be able to satifsy our SO's needs, if we care about them. I've been married forever, and believe it or not, there have been many occasions when I took care of my wife's needs without bothering about my own (surely I'm not the only guy who goes south on a girl). She's done the same for me. Sex isn't gross. If it's being withheld by your SO, that's a serious issue. Sometimes there truly is such a disparity between a couple's respective sex drives that a relationship won't work for them, but this is just a mismatch. More often, something else is going on, which is why changes in sexual frequency need to be viewed as a potential red flag in a relationship. That's the point of the OP.

I would suggest addressing it in a positive way. GOOD communication is key. It's simplistic to conclude that this guy is putting pressure on his SO, and that all would be well, if he just backed off and waited things out forever (treating a girl like a princess when a guy isn't being treated like a prince will just make a guy resentful and create more distance). It won't happen without mutual caring, respect, and trust, but if those elements are there, two people should be able to discuss their wants, needs, goals, and all else, ultimately working a resolution that makes the relationship a better one.

A final thought is to consider where each of you are at. Relationships are tough enough for two stable people to maintain, and things get problematic, where a couple either doesn't share core values, or when one or both have "issues" (low self-esteem, substance abuse, and depression, whatever the cause, to name a few). Better to avoid long term relationships in those instances until they are worked out, in my opinion, but each person's mileage may vary.

loganmule, where were you before all the bashing began?!

Just thought that I'd chime in here to say that there are a lot of intelligent, sensitive, and mostly respectful people on this board.

I think the consensus here is to communicate, work together, try to come to a mutually beneficial ( emotionally ) relationship, OR if that fails, move on... Pretty good advice.....

OP read these responses thoughtfully. Try not to get wound up in some of the stronger posts, as people all seem to have different experiences, which tend to add a certain intensity to their opinions.

xxx

i have to jump in on the side of the OP should count himself lucky for 2-3 a week. I am 28, wife is 26, been married 7 years, I have gotten laid 3 times since the beginning of December. It's march 2nd. That's less than once a month.

I can't give much advice here. I been trying to lay off on pressuring her into it too, and its not improving anything. GOod luck man. I hope you find something that helps.

I blame Twilight