What differences do you notice dating a college-educated person vs not?
 

What differences do you notice dating a college-educated person vs not? This might be a rash generalization, but for me it seems like a huge deal for some people.

Currently I'm dating someone who graduated from a decent college, although she's not the brightest lightbulb in the room. I kind of wonder why I make such a huge deal out of it.

Does going to college change your DNA?

(confused)

For most people todays college is yesterdays high school.

While dating it wasn't much of a consideration for me. For marriage I wanted to make sure my wife was intelligent as so many men seem to forget their kids get their wives genes too. I didn't rely on graduating college for that though, usually talking to a person gives you a good idea about that sort of thing.

It's not so much as changing your dna as much as being a small determinent of intelligence/interest. Also, if it you're looking for something long term--it could also mean someone who has a better job suited for a long term relationship.

DNA'd! :rolleyes: Apparently they don't teach humor these days!

UsTwo is on the money. College today is yesterday's high school. Everybody is doing it. Especially the legions of useless American whitebread.

My philosophy? College doesn't count as having done something with your life. Another little bubble to hide in and plead ignorance.

My advice? Go somewhere and suffer. Build a house by hand. Work a manual labor job. Deny self-interest for 15 minutes.

...

Haha, I'm balls deep in college right now. I feel so... dirty.

College is like putting blinders on.
Almost all my friends are successful but have little or no college and I consider them all extremely intelligent. One of the most intelligent men I know didn't have a lick of college.
Of course, I have friends with multiple master degrees and they're very smart as well, but they are also my age or older-common sense came back to them after a while. :lol: And I think that's the 'answer'- in college or soon after, because of those blinders, common sense and outside experiences that add to life take a back seat to the books.

Here uni (kinda like college) is actually quite hard to get into you generally need to be in the top 30% of applicants before they will even think of accepting you for the lowest level courses.

I can't say at the moment I can tell the difference between someone who has been college / university educated and not atm, but then again I am a big believer in intelligence exists outside of the classroom as well as inside. You can have some amazingly intelligent people that can't do school work to save their lives.

I have worked with many college grads in my life... it wasn't any indicator of much.

as far as dating, I've only dated college grads, but I think that is a function of the areas I happened to be within. I wanted to date those that weren't but they wouldn't have me.

For me... for the last 5-6 years the majority of my time was spent in a college environment - I was around students 24/7, lived as an RA in the dorms... you meet who you're near.

Also... sometimes fellow students can be more forgiving of the demands on your social life that being a good college can require at times.

Currently.. I'm dating someone who has never attended a traditional 4 year college, and i thank the stars every day for it. His intelligence and knowledge is cultivated out of personal interest, not because someone forced to him to take a class or read a book.

I thought this thread was going to be about community college vs. university, to which I would have injected my opinions on the matter. Maybe instead I'll search around for a college vs. university thread, if such a thing exists.

Other than that, I would not gauge college vs. no college as much as I would gauge common sense. I've met people with high school only who are just as intelligent and interesting as the average post-secondary graduate.

I won't go into a rant about the state of post-secondary education now, as tempting as it may be.

...I'll search around for that thread.

Hold on, your primary reason for wanting to marry an intelligent woman was so your *kids* would be smart? What about just wanting an equal conversation partner, someone who can challenge you?... I'd think that would be more important than considerations of offspring, but I know you're all into the biological explanation of mating, so maybe that's it. :)

As for me, I'm the eternal student :p so I'd have been hard-pressed to have found someone *without* a uni education. That's not due to my biases... just my social environment, which is rather unfortunate (in that it limited my experiences somewhat). If I had found someone who was intellectually sharp, well-read, politically aware, knew lots about other countries & languages, and was always eager and open to learning more, and had never been to college... hell, I'd have been jumping his bones in no time, too. But ktspktsp fufilled all of those things (despite having a MSc degree, lol), so I wasn't going to turn him down based on whether or not he had a formal education. Being the first college grad in my family, that wouldn't have mattered shit to me.

Having a college degree has nothing to do with intelligence level, Come On! The most I could say is that it might testify to their ability to stick with a program. But what was the motivation? That they enjoyed the experience? That they are a sheep?

I also can't figure out why you'd make a big deal out of it.

Quoted for truth.

College is an indicator but certainly not a predictor. I work with several people that either didn't attend college at all or didn't finish. They're not exactly dummies.

As for dating, if I were to find myself doing that again, not having a college degree wouldn't immediately eliminate someone from my consideration so long as they were intelligent enough to hold up their part of the conversation. At the end of the day, that's all I really care about.

I have been in a few serious relationships with girls who did not finish college. The most recent one (an ex/gf) was quite bright (I guess a tribute to her catholic school education?). I happened to give her an IQ test as part of my own training for school, and she scored almost two standard deviations above the average college grad, which is possibly why she was so interesting as a person. She did, however have some hangups and insecurities about her lack of a college education. She would almost never hang out with me when I was with my grad school friends, and would generally avoid other circumstances where she might be with a majority of college educated people. I think she thought that they would judge her (which is quite unlikely). It made for a good bit of awkwardness at times. When she left me, I think she went off with an artist who didn't finish school, maybe there's something to that.
There is nothing magical about college, it is almost like high school used to be, but as long as everybody does not go, it is still a small accomplishment. It does not mean that you have some great motivation, or are brilliant, however, I still believe that it provides a leg up. Without it I think that you do need a special kind of motivation to get what you want out of life. How does this affect dating? Well, I think that most people like to be with someone who is interesting, a little goal oriented (not just for the money), and smart; whether this comes from a college education or not is somewhat irrelevant, but I (in my probably biased way) believe that it can be slightly more common in college educated people.
As an aside, more and more women are going to college, and fewer men, what does this say, and how will it affect future dating habits?

I was kicked out of college, and never went back. I too have insecurities about that in social settings. The question I hear most when meeting new people is, "So, where did you go to school?" I usually stutter and say something sarcastic. The times that I reply, "I didn't", it kills the conversation.

I consider myself to be an intellectual, I guess learning little life lessons has helped. Oops, I just jacked the thread.

Being educated and being intelligent are not the same. I know this point has been made already.

Australia doesn't have colleges, we just have universities, and not everyone will go to uni. The vast majority of my friends went to uni, some dropped out, and others never went. It has made no difference how I see them or how they see me. One of my friends who's doing media studies often comments "You learn so much pointless wank at these places. I can tell you everything about post modern feminism and it's affect on media but still have fuck all idea what to do when my car breaks down."

I don't care what education a person has, as long as they have half a brain, can speak well, and articulate themselves then we're going to get along just fine.

There are stupid fucking people everywhere. I've met high school dropouts who were stupid, high school graduates who were stupid, college dropouts who were stupid, and college graduates who were stupid.

I wish I could use college as a selection against stupid people, but it doesn't work. And won't work, as long as grade inflation, "party" majors and "party" schools exist.

The only thing that I can use "college educated person" for is as a sieve, a strainer. There are definitely stupid people everywhere, but it seems that stupid people decrease in percentage relative to their peers the higher in the formal education chain they've gone.

For what it's worth, I've never met someone I considered "extremely intelligent" or "gifted" who was a high school dropout. They've gotten lucky, but they're not exceedingly intelligent in the conventional sense.

Agreed on all counts. I met some pretty damn stupid people while I was in university, as well as some incredibly smart ones.

All the women I married without a university degree were cheating sluts.

All the women I married with a university degree have been faithful and fun.

The key, of course is sample size. ;)

College-educated people tend to know how to use a semicolon. Other than that, I know and have known some awesome people who never went to college or dropped out.

You could argue that it gives you a stronger background in scientific, economic and philosophical concepts. You've probably read more books. Statistically, you'll have a higher-paying job.

At the end of the day, though, I'm perfectly happy to hang out with people who are honest and have a good sense of humor.

When trying to get laid at a bar, intelligence is far less of an issue.

When deciding to ask her to marry me, it becomes pretty important.

Now I can't say I was looking for a woman to challenge me, odds are I'd still be looking, but I was looking for a woman who could at least keep up.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I see how it is... :lol:

My ego shines in such a way, I sometimes wonder if I am the cause of global warming.

I'm reluctant to view low intelligence disparagingly while viewing high intelligence as though it were virtuous in and of itself. There are other factors that help me determine how I judge character and someone's worth.

Someones worth vrs a potential mate in the true sense of the word are two completely different questions though.

I've known some completely wonderful idiots, and some quite revolting intellectuals.

Neither type would be suitable to date.

Exactly. I know a near-4.0 college graduate who thought it would be a terrific idea to use a brand new vacuum cleaner to siphon gas out of a family member's car (her gas tank was empty).

I know what you mean. I'd rather date someone like Natalie Portman. She's attractive, artistic, multilingual, and holds a psychology degree from Harvard.

She could be the mother of my children.

Wow. Don't aim too low, now.

She could mother your Baraka-legions?

I'm pretty happy with mine over all :thumbsup:

I think it really depends on the person. Some people don't choose to be university or college educated and they decide to become chefs or a trade skill. That's doing what they love. And in many ways, it's much smarter than going to school to not do what you love.
But for others, I see some people from my high school on the bus to work and they are still talking loudly on their cell phones and talking about the time they got high or how they got arrested for possession. It really depends on the person. But it is usually safe to say, that a greater number of people who do not choose to pursue a university degree have a greater likelyhood to not do much with their lives. Nothing really meaningful at least in my opinion

Truth be told, if I ever have children with my fiancee, I'm sure I would be too. Just replace "psychology degree from Harvard" with "biology/chemistry degree from the University of Victoria" and that just about describes her. :)

There's a lot of short-sighted college bashing going on here. I wish I had some time to present another view, maybe later.

I think certain universities cultivate critical thinking skills in their students. However, that is not universally true; there are many colleges/universities that teach their students only to follow their dogma.

My SO is not a college graduate--yet. But he has the critical thinking skills and ability to draw his own conclusions about situations--and that ability is something I care about. But I think a college education is irrelevant in looking for it, because life is just as good at teaching critical thinking skills as college is.

My mother is perfect evidence of this--she went to the school of Life. The woman had experienced more by 25 than most do in their entire lives--widowed at 19, divorced at 23, married again and having a baby at 25. By comparison, I haven't even graduated college yet (I have all my degree requirements met), and my biggest claim to fame is that I worked at a fruit leather factory one summer. I turned 25 in July. Fortunately for me, I didn't have to attend the school of Life. I got to go to university.

My mother has a high school education. My father has a Master's degree and almost finished his doctorate (abaya might appreciate this--he was all but dissertation...and quit) but somehow he has managed to stay married to my mother for 26 years, despite a 9-year-age difference. Hmm.

Well, certainly I notice a general discussion-style difference in the majority of college vs. non college educated people. But let's be fair, most of the non-college people I know/knew were also chained to a tiny rural town and had all of the attendant stereotypes and biases attached to that.

But college does not equal intelligent. Or even clever. In fact, in meeting many *very* bright people in my new grad program - at an Ivy League school no less - I am at a loss. They're very nice, and certainly intelligent... but they lack a basic communication ability. They speak, and more noticeably, write with ridiculous grammatical errors. From using the wrong "your/you're" to not understanding common phrases and cliches, such as "she's favoring her right leg" meaning she is protecting the right leg and putting more weight on her left leg... they are woefully poor communicators.

I think the whole world is going that way, though. And I blame the internets.
/end threadjack

That being said, I doubt I'd have dated many people without college degrees, simply because it's harder to relate intimately to someone who doesn't have a similar background to your own. I may meet, befriend, and care about people from different worlds, but it's harder to date those people and connect viscerally.

Subculture syndrome. Stereotype perpetuation. Military has it hardcore.

Generalizations. I think it was SGT G. that once said:

"I like college kids. All talk and they don't fight back."

Man, I really don't know about that comment.

It will really depend on what your definition of 'meaningful' is.

I'm not trying to sound narky, but I fail to see how having gone to college can make someones life anymore meaningful.

:thumbsup:

Going to university has made my life more meaningful. I spent four years studying literature and literary theory, and it changed my world view and even how I view myself. It enriched my life because it allowed me to take on different perspectives and it taught me critical analysis. It changed my life forever. I don't speak for everyone of course, especially considering an English degree is quite different from many other areas of study out there.

Man, I keep seeing this shit somewhere:

Education, like religion, is something you do for yourself. As the great Jesus Le Christypants once said, "Let us not restrict our method of worship to an institution, to a structure, to the wikipedia."

Do for yourself? Are you kidding? College is practically required in America. And I disagree that you should strictly do it for yourself. To an extent you need to be forced. Does a 5 year old really wanna go to school? No, but we make them because we have an advanced society that takes years and years of education in order to function in, and I think it's a benefit to our society to have the population as highly educated as possible. Unless you are advocating that we should an uninformed ignorant America. Just because it is vain for some people doesn't mean the institution is faulty. College is not a waste of time, but some people waste their time in college.

Give me a woman who's finished college (Or has gone through some other institute of higher learning). I don't care if it's a generalization, but people who don't pursue an education of some sort are typically content to go nowhere/do nothing with their lives. And that I can do without.

You know, college doesn't equal intelligent......

But I think it does indicate a level of drive and interest in one's own education. Not a universal formula but a pretty decent indicator.

That might be like suggesting that money is a good indicator of ambition.

Oh, and I also quoted someone named Jesus Le Christypants. Please tell me you don't that kinda stuff seriously.

Okay, so I'm not really kidding. You act as if college is the only viable path in society. That you couldn't get a job and be successful without it.

Example:

{crap}

Oh no! How is this possible?! How ever did I pay cash for a new truck and motorcycle in the same year?! I don't have a college degree. Where did the money come from?! It must be something other than my occupation!

{/crap}

...

Uh, last time I checked? An American college wasn't even as good as the education that you can get from a country like South Africa. Not even worth mentioning how far we are behind countries like Japan with our educational standards in technology, math, and science.

...

Of course college is required by society. The educational bar gets raised every decade it seems... pretty soon you'll need a Masters to get a decent job (already seems like it in some fields).

People aren't changing physiologically (giant pulsating brain-heads), but our expectations sure are a-changin'. That piece of paper (degree) is required before you even get a nod from some employers, but we fool ourselves if we assume that it somehow equates to intellect or experience.

College necessity: This is the natural evolution of an information society. I'm not bitchin'.

As an older guy, I'm doing college right now for the first time. I didn't have the money to go out of high school, so I joined the military. I'm gonna get my four year degree in three years, probably get my masters after a couple of deployments to pay for a house. College? It only reinforces my faith in people with useful professions: mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, welders, lion tamers, ninjas, etc.

How do you make $100,000 a year without a college education? Do something that rich yuppie kids with all the book smarts in the world won't do.

In America? This usually means sweating / getting your hands dirty.

The real question here isn't college/McDonalds, the question is college major.

Let me explain with pictures....

The engineer/science major (non-premed).

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3068/nomakeuprs8.jpg
Cons:
No makeup.
No idea of how good looking she could be if she spent more than 2 minutes in the bathroom.
Acne due to lack of skin care.

Pros:
You have a chance with a girl that with some help is above your level.
May like your Monty Python collection.

The education major:

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2...cationmwo5.jpg

Cons:
Low ACT/SAT scores, not very bright as a rule.
Wants 8 kids.

Pros:
Gets home from work early enough to make dinner and has summers off.
Will be into freeky sex by the time shes 30 (TRUST me on this, and no Mrs. Ustwo isn't an education major)

Women Studies Major.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1538/womanssk9.jpg

Cons:
Lesbian
Hates men
No makeup, but unlike engineer, its a statement.
No earning potential

Pros:
Will take out garbage as a symbolic statement.

PreMed Major.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1804/premedkt6.jpg

Cons:
GPA will be more important than you
Will have better job than you and you will be the woman of the family.
Will have friends smarter then you.
If she fails she will revert to a basic humanities major in all respects.

Pros:
Will make more money than you.

The "Basic" humanities major.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7...anitieswd8.jpg

Cons:
Will end up being a secretary.
Will not like your Monty Python collection.
Expects Mrs. Degree before you graduate.
Will get fat at 33.

Pros:
Better chance of being attractive.
Drinks heavily.
Puts out.

I'm not going to contest the fact that some people would be better off just getting job training, that they are more suited for it. College is not for everyone, but I really think that it is important to value a college education, whether or not it readily defines a certain quality like intelligence. Is enrollment at any other institution an indicator of certain qualities? I have a friend who went through the scouts and became an eagle scout, and let me tell you, he is the most unprepared and least responsibility person I know half the time. Is that to say the boy scouts are useless and teach you nothing? Do I base my entire opinion just on my limited personal experience?

Ustwo, your post cracks me up.

I bet that womens' studies major could kick your ass, too.

Or at least sit on it.

i think that reading through the thread is a much better answer to the op than anything anyone says in particular. is there a difference? not necessarily.
anyway, there's no way to answer the question, really.
the devil's in the details.

====================
one thing that i have learned wandering academicworld for something like 20 years, as an undergrad, a grad student and later as a teacher is that it seems more often than not that going to college when you're 18 is a bad idea.

it was for me: first time out, i majored in hallucinogens.
i went back to school when i was 24 to actually participate in classes.

if you dont know--or at least have an idea--of what you want and why you are there, you are wasting your time.
if you dont take control of your education when you get to university, you probably shouldnt be there yet.
if you see it as an extension of high school, so that classes are an affliction, you arent ready.

there are cheaper ways to get fucked up for a few years---30 grand on tuition and another 20 on board is a pretty high cover charge.
but this cover charge is an expression of class privilege--and the fact that when you're 18 the money being pissed away generally is mummy and daddys.
you'd be better off going out into the world and getting kicked around for a while.

figure out what you want.
then go.

i wonder sometimes if this is endemic, a function of the age group, and whether it'd make more sense to have a kind of national service requirement (not necessarily the military, but i suspect the conservative set would oppose state expenditures that are not directed to reinforcing state violence) for a couple years to effectively prevent 18 year olds from going straight from high school into university.

i dont think that 18 year olds would like this, but universities would be much different, and better, places to be were this the case.
i think it would damage the fraternity and sorority systems---but i dont see the downside of that.

and there are exceptions--i have run into alot of very directed kids--but far more are not. FAR more have no idea what they are doing.


i'll leave it at that.

:thumbsup:

Hell yes, I wish mummy and daddy paid for my education so I could piss it away!

Military service is a good thing, but hell... somebody has to stuff envelopes, do data entry for Uncle Sam, and pick up roadside trash.

Not everybody can handle the military. Everybody can handle paperwork.

National service would rock my socks.

i think that with even a little imagination you could figure out a much wider range of possibilities for such a program than that tiny list, crompsin.

give it a try.

the real is not rational--it only has weight because it is.

Law of large numbers, chief... not just a lame generalization.
- How many Boy Scouts make it to Eagle? (very small number)
- How many college kids get a degree? (very large number)

...

Boy Scouts was fun until they told us we couldn't have knives or make fires anymore.

Hahah! Don't overestimate my ambition here, now. I'm not that smart.

I suppose I could suggest something grand (social program?) like national free health care service heavily augmented by national service "volunteers" made up primarily of young adults "doing their time," etc.

Countries like Israel and Norway and others have required government service, usually military... but sometimes domestic duties / office jobs.

But... why would I do such a thing? I have all the literary / verbal eloquence of a G.A. Romero zombie.

That... and I have you to pontificate for me.

I am really surprised that so many people voiced their opinion on this. I think they're really great answers. I'm tending to find that I agree on the non-college preferences. But I also think there is a real strong case for university side.

I guess I have the privilege of attending one of the best universities (UC Berkeley). Although this didn't speak for the majority of the population, the people I met/dated there were generally able to have many of the qualities that many of us share: most often they were socially-aware, quick-witted, and generally interesting and passionated individuals. I found that many were able to just pick up and issue and see the various complexities and vague points of a conversation. I don't see this as false advertising. It was like a sort of bubble--sure many people fell into the the stereotypes that Ustwo so wittedly pointed out, however generally many of the people were deeper than that and often times from conversation you could see that.

I also think that many people there weren't just the general representative of the Rich Kid advantage being groomed to replace their parent's social heirachy. There were many people who clawed their way into that school with many life stories worth telling, and, even better, worth learning from. I think in that case, that was how I started the college-education bias. For me, I saw an abundance of qualities that others complained they did not see in the college system.

However, as my good friends now gleefully remind me, you're not in Berkeley anymore. So, I am at the point where I refine my current bias. There is something to attending Berkeley, maybe other schools. I'm not sure I can say the same for the majority of other colleges.

The biggest difference I always see is that people who are well into college or have graduated, have a much better idea of what they want from life, and are going after it. Even if they have no idea what career they want, their desire to educate themselves and demonstrate their ability to learn and use their critical thinking skills generally puts them heads above the rest with regard to conviction, or purpose. Once they figure out what it is they want to do, they'll be all over it like a fat kid on cake.

I'm not saying people who don't go to college have no ambitions or drive, i'm saying people that DO go to college generally have more ambition and drive.

Except for Liberal Arts majors. ;) lol

Universities, for all of their short comings, do focus often like minded individuals in one place.

TFP has a lot of very 'socially aware' people which means you can't ever say something is better than something else. Everyone is quite ready to tell you the exceptions to the rules, as if they were the rules.

I know women who did not go to college who are very smart, witty, and worthy of dating.

I know women who went to a major university who aren't worthy of bringing me fries.

That doesn't mean there isn't a positive bias with college educated individuals over non-college educated.

The problem is after you graduate, you are normally back into the gene pool at large. Added to that, the better women have already been 'locked up' while in college. I snagged mine while she was an 18 year old freshman before she could even test her market value ;) The older you get the harder good women will be to find.

So while the kind of women you are interested in are out there and available, they are scattered, and difficult to identify.

As to how to find them, well I can't say I know for sure as it depends on what type of you are looking for. You won't find engineer types at the same place you find tree huggers, that sort of thing.

Ahh Ustwo, you hit the nail right on the head. I must admit some difficulty adjusting to the larger gene pool.

And you are omnipotent and/or personally know this "very large number" of people with college degrees enough to judge whether or not their college education was worth it or not? You are revealing in your generalizations about the value of college in America with no real statistics, just opinion. I realize that I am not defending my view point in such a manner, but that is only because my view point is not pro or con college, but pro enlightened discussion that is not based on opinion. if I ever took a side it was only to offer a counterpoint in order to spark a more intelligent debate.

According to BSA... since 1910... the number of Eagle Scouts: 40,029

I'm guessing a lot more people have acquired degrees from all the colleges in the US during that century of time frame.

Statistics are stupid, too. They don't prove opinions... which is basically this whole thread and most of the stuff that people shoot out of their pie holes.

I'm not taking sides either. You act like I'm not balls-deep in college right now pushin' 17 creds with my chin.

...

How do you have a debate without opinions, anyway? Is this a college thing? :)

...

Check out my other posts, too! I don't dispense intelligent debate.

Well Ill give it to you that this is more of an opinion thread, that is true. I dunno I, when i see a thread full of people bashing college, I feel compelled to offer a differing view. Maybe thats just because me and all of my good friends value our college education very much.

Basher says:

College education? Yes, we can already tell you value jack and coke.

If you knew me you would understand that photo's irony. I have one kidney due to a birth defect and do not drink.

One kidney is enough! My father's been living on one at 10% for years!

Drink up, son. That is what dialysis is for!

...

College has proven to be extremely worthwhile for me in that it tests my patience, fortifies with organizational systems, and forces me to read a mountain of stuff that I would have otherwise foolishly ignored as the mundane.

Ustwo I want you to do a nursing major for me :)

I don't know how things work in the USA but here uni is seriously no big deal, you can go courses at private institutions like the AMA ( Auatralian Medical Association) or TAFE or Uni and still end up in related fields. If I hadn't wanted to go to Uni I could have done an EN (Enrolled nurse) diploma at TAFE then a conversion course in 1 yr at uni and be an RN (Registered nurse), same thing happens in computing, mechanical, engineering courses.

And I hate to burst your bubble but the USA education system is a bit of a joke here actually, alot of the qualifications and degrees you can achieve aren't recognised internationally.

Oh bubble bursting time incoming.

I used to think this too, until I met my research mentor. He was European (I'm not going to get too specific due to privacy issues) with a PhD in physics and another in mechanical engineering. He also had a D.D.S. degree, and played first violin for a symphony, among other 'hobbies'. He is perhaps the most intelligent and educated man I've met and I spent 12 years of my life in a University setting so thats saying quite a bit. He is also just a GREAT guy. I think he spoke 7 languages as well, but I can't say I tested that.

We used to have long pointless chats while I was working for him, and one of the things that came up with the US education system. I was pretty down on it. He laughed and said that while at the basic grades the US system in inferior once you get the the University system it blows the European model out of the water. His opinion, and his is an opinion I value above any others, was that the Universities of the US more than make up for the lacking primary education system and that the European system was inferior. The way classes are structured and the lack of serious penalty for failing was a big part of this.

Now at the time I only had his word for it, but as I ran into more and more European graduates and spoke with those in the system, I had to agree. I came to see the value in a liberal arts education over the more focused European model where people often knew almost nothing that was directly focused in their disciplines. I'm so biased at this point I look at a European PhD as having as much value as a basic US B.S. degree. Most can't poor piss out of a boot as the saying goes.

Now I don't know the Australian model but if its anything like the European one, then I can't say I give it any value over the US model.

This being said, this only applies to those who strive to get the best out of the systems. The 'average' US graduate is nothing special, nor is the average European graduate, its waterybeer/sex vrs tothickbeer/sex. At the level I was at though, I was anything but impressed.

Now I know your 'perception' may be that the US system is a joke, hell most Mideasterners I know think of the 'best' medical educations coming from England, and oh god, they couldn't be more wrong theses days.

Now for something more fun....

Nursing students..

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5731/nursefj4.png


Cons:
Will always be pissed off, at doctors and/or patients, this will trail into being with you.
Will have crappy hours.

Pros:
Will be into freaky sexy by 30 (TRUST me on this one and no Mrs. Ustwo isn't a nurse)
Dealing with sick people all day makes them more realistic and less self centered then the average person.

College educated dates have to be treated, as they never have any money due to their student loans.

Not always true. I make the college girl pay for the first one on the premise that I don't condone the legalized prostitution barter system of Ruby Tuesday's menu items for vagina-penis-wrap oscillations.

Student loans DO suck Bigfoot's dick.

What's this 'loan' you speak of. The best thing about being a minority in the US is that, if you've got good grades/test scores, the government basically throws money at you. It's great :D

...But I digress.

What do you mean good?

Try, 'if you have a heart beat and no violent criminal record'.

I think it's fascinating how many people are defending peoples worth in a relationship when they have NOT gone to college. I'm the 5th generation of my family to be in college and to get my degree. Why is it such a great thing for people who haven't gone to school but are very bright? I just don't see it.
I'm glad that James has his degrees, and I'm glad I'm on my way to get mine as well. I would never consider dating someone if they weren't in college or planning to finish. James is the same way, if I drop out it's a deal breaker. STRAIGHT UP.

I dated a non college oriented guy for a long time, he had no goals and he wasn't going anywhere. Abused marijuana too much, just a nothing kinda guy. I look back and I can't believe I let myself do it for long.

College is a requirement in my book, I don't care how smart you are without it. Also another thing, growing up my parents put a strict emphasis on education. Both of them have degrees and had to sacrifice 5 years of their lives for Uncle Sam in order to get G.I. Bill to pay for their college. (my grandparents are cheap due to the depression, therefore they could afford to pay for my dad to go to school, but wouldn't. My moms family at the time had 4 other kids to deal with after her, college wasn't an option at the time although her parents did go and their parents) So, with them having to do that and my sister and I having the opportunity not to have to do that, we were brought up knowing that college wasn't an option, it comes with the family name.

And yes I'm going to get barked on by lots of folks, well thats just my opinion.
I prefer college educated over not.

My future requires a college education. My kids will be the same way.

I think we have really multiple issues here which sort of clouds what people are talking about.

You come from a 5 generation college family, which is impressive because 5 generations ago college was a luxury. That same degree was worth more 5 generations ago then it is today, it was also most likely harder to get.

With about everyone who can going to college it begs the question is if its worth it for everyone. Sure is a great experience in itself, but when I think of some of these kids graduating with a degree in art history and 200k in debt from North Western I have to wonder if its the smart thing to do.

So while I've never dated anyone who wasn't in college (and then I got married to one) I can see under some circumstances where I could have without a problem. I do note that these are exceptions to the rule, not the rule itself.

I'm a snob in this regard, but only in that you have the knowledge, not in how you attained it. A non-college educated person who reads just Science and Nature is going to quickly catch up to all those college educated mothers in my office who are reading People and surpass them in a short period of time.

How do college-dropout self-made millionaires fit into the picture?

I don't care how much money she has, she better be attractive, and personally thats most likely not enough. The vapid nature of some of the female Hollywood stars, I'd not be able to stand until death do us part.

I won't say how many years it has been since I've been on the dating side of the fence. But long ago... I met/dated guys who were college grads, college students, and guys who never attended college. The one difference that springs to mind is conversation. In my personal experience, male college students talked, ALOT... about themselves. College graduates and *life* graduates talked about family, current events, sports, hobbies, science, hiking, space, life in general. But for some reason, the college guys that I knew had this *look-at-me* attitude that you could not miss if you tried.

Agreed - good post.

While college may not be a perfect or even good indication of someone's raw intelligence, it is very good at indicating one's work ethic and ambition.

Usually you will find that the majority of college students who attend a top university are VERY motivated; they may not be smarter on a raw scale than someone who didn't go to university (but they usually are since they take the TIME to use and develop their brains), but they damn as hell made sure they worked their butt off to get where they want. I think that counts for alot.

This is similar to what scores indicate for standardized tests - the SAT is relatively "easy" given enough preparation.. but how much ambition and motivation does someone have to actually make sure they will do well? There are exceptions - the smart kids don't have to study as much, but in general your average 120-140 IQ kid has to prepare similarly...

The great thing about going to a top university is that most of hte kids you meet have a similarly high work ethic / ambition as yourself; even if on a raw scale the distribution of IQ's has a similar spread as the avg population (with a center skewed towards the high end however), they all have alot of ambition which only drives yourself to even further propel yourself..

edit: the previous "stat" was pulled outta my ass, but it was just an example

For me, there's a distinctive difference between the two.

No education - I will put my penis in her.

Education - I will put my penis in her, and QUITE POSSIBLY hold a conversation either before or after the fact.

Obviously you never met people in engineering. It is HARD and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Though I do agree that there are a bunch of idiot fratboys and sorority clones who get through.