Flirting

[ChadB]

Hi,
My wife and I have been married 18 years. She loves to party and always has which isn't a big deal but he also loves to flirt. This has always been a sore spot in our relationship because it really upsets me. I hate it. It makes me not want to go anywhere because I know I'll have to deal with it while I'm there. I've talked to her about it many times and she says it's just harmless fun to her and makes her feel pretty. She says I'm making too bit of a deal about it and I should realize that she is always coming home with me. It makes me feel unwanted and pissed off and I just can't shake it. Am I making too much out of nothing?

[Kadath]

Well. If you've been married to her for almost two decades and she still does it even though it bothers you, I have three thoughts.

1. It must not bother you that much, because you're still married to her.
2. If you've actually expressed to her how much it bothers and she keeps doing it, then she's not very kind to you.
3. It is likely you are being too jealous/possessive and not all the fault lies with her.

[Sultana]

Be so fun that she wants to flirt with you!

Or you could try flirting with someone else and see if she minds.

It's impossible to know if you're making too much of a big deal over it with one paragraph of info.

Why does it bother you so much?

[ChadB]

It doesn't bother me enough to divorce her. That seems a bit of an extreme response. She did stop for a time be drifted back again.

Her flirting usually goes like this. She sits next to a guy and starts teasing him about something he says and the teasing usually escalates to having sexual undertones. Or the usual bending over in front of guys. At a party this weekend she was wearing a pretty short pair of shorts and a guy commented on her toe nail polish, she lifted her foot up and while she wasn't showing anything it was very close.

It bothers me because she's married to me. In general guys are stupid and when a woman flirts with them they instantly assume they want to have sex with them. Which then leads them to assume I'm not making her happy. When girls flirt with me I stop it because I respect her. I want to send a clear message that I'm happily taken. The wives of the other couples we hang out with do the same thing so I guess she is just joining the crowd. Maybe I'm just a stick in the mud but we're both a few years from being 40 and I would have hoped she'd be done acting like a 20 year old by now.

[Sultana]

Ah. Well the shorts/leg thing is a little further than flirting, in my opinion. I'd say that falls into the realm of teasing.

I'm afraid I don't have much to contribute right now. Sometimes you have to make a big deal of something to make the other person understand it's important to you.

Why do you think she does it, if she knows already that it bothers you so much? How much/how frankly have you talked about it?

[ChadB]

We have talked very frankly about it. She said when she was younger she had a hard time fitting in with the other kids. Then when she started to blossom all the sudden guys paid attention to her and she thought it was the greatest thing. She then used it as a social tool. Now she says it's just part of her interaction with people in a casual social situation. She pointed out that she also flirts with girls which she does. She is just a "party girl" type I guess. What is ironic is that she says the reason she fell in love with me is that I treated her like a person and wasn't just out to get a piece. I guess I hate to see her acting like "just a piece". As I said she stopped for a time but the way she did it was to stop going to social gatherings. That's not the answer either, it just caused her to blame me for not having fun.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is this a problem with me or is she doing something inappropriate? I talked to one of the other wives husbands about it and he just said, "If his wife wants to flirt he just let's her." To me that sounds like he doesn't care for his wife too much. Not to mention isn't it a natural male instinct to chase off the other males?

[Sultana]

You can't control her behavior. You can only control your own.

Originally Posted by ChadB

I talked to one of the other wives husbands about it and he just said, "If his wife wants to flirt he just let's her." To me that sounds like he doesn't care for his wife too much.

To me that has nothing at all to do with how much he cares about his wife. What in the world is he (or you) supposed to do about it?

Originally Posted by ChadB

Not to mention isn't it a natural male instinct to chase off the other males?

Maybe for a gorilla.

So she's always been like this, and now you want her to change? Good luck with that.

Does she see what she's doing as any kind of problem?

[ChadB]

Originally Posted by Sultana

Does she see what she's doing as any kind of problem?

Nope. She sees it as harmless fun and I overreact.

[ngdawg]

Then neither one of you is being clear to the other. Nothing is harmless if it bothers someone else.
You have several ways to go with this. Obviously, she's dismissing your feelings and opinions, which is adding to your frustration, I'm sure.
Eighteen years married is a long time and she's no longer 20-a fact that is not lost on her and in fact, may very well be the reason she does this so much and so blatantly; she's feeling like yesterday's news and needs to show she's still 'got it' to the outside world.
Remember as a teenager, feeling awkward or unattractive and your mom would say how good looking you were, talented, etc.? And we'd shrug that off as 'You're supposed to say that, you're Mom.'? Kinda the same thing here. It doesn't matter how sexy, beautiful, etc., you find her-validation needs are desired from outsiders.
Since you can't change her behavior and she refuses to stop, you have to change your own reactions. Leave the room, flirt yourself, do what it takes to get you out of the situation that brings your anger. Hell, walk up behind her, grab her breasts and remind her loudly those go home with you! That alone might get her to back off some.

[cadre]

I flirt and I always have so I can relate to her perspective. My boyfriend and I have been together a long time and he knows how I am and has no problem with it. Granted I don't flirt much when I'm with him because I usually have other things to be doing.

Anywho, for me it's just how my attitude is, for a long time I didn't like to call it flirting but deep down I know it is so I won't deny that. It makes you feel pretty and sexy and all that which is something I like about it. I find that in long relationships both people tend to slowly stop doing the things that make the other feel sexy and all that so maybe that is why she does it and maybe if you tried that it would keep her flirting with you instead of someone else. This is how it would work for me at least.

Think back to when you were dating and compare that to now. I know some men think that after a while they don't have to do/say things to make their SOs feel good but the reality is you do, at least I think it really helps relationships because if you don't they will go find that somewhere else (like from the guys she's flirting with).

I hope that makes sense, let me know if you have any questions.

Originally Posted by ngdawg

Hell, walk up behind her, grab her breasts and remind her loudly those go home with you! That alone might get her to back off some.

Haha, yes that would be great. You should try that.

[ChadB]

Originally Posted by cadre

I flirt and I always have so I can relate to her perspective. My boyfriend and I have been together a long time and he knows how I am and has no problem with it. Granted I don't flirt much when I'm with him because I usually have other things to be doing.

Anywho, for me it's just how my attitude is, for a long time I didn't like to call it flirting but deep down I know it is so I won't deny that. It makes you feel pretty and sexy and all that which is something I like about it. I find that in long relationships both people tend to slowly stop doing the things that make the other feel sexy and all that so maybe that is why she does it and maybe if you tried that it would keep her flirting with you instead of someone else. This is how it would work for me at least.

Think back to when you were dating and compare that to now. I know some men think that after a while they don't have to do/say things to make their SOs feel good but the reality is you do, at least I think it really helps relationships because if you don't they will go find that somewhere else (like from the guys she's flirting with).

I hope that makes sense, let me know if you have any questions.


Haha, yes that would be great. You should try that.

Yeah, that is exactly what she says. And as ngdawg said above she is completely fighting the age thing the whole way. For the past few years we have been into getting in shape. She and I have both lost about around 35 pounds and she looks incredible! Her birthday was last weekend and she said she doesn't care what the birth certificate says, she's in her 20s. So I suppose feeling that she still has "it" could also be a big modivation for her. I tell her she looks great everyday but I guess it's different it get a rise out of a guy that isn't your husband. Maybe I am just being too jealous.

[cadre]

Originally Posted by ChadB

Yeah, that is exactly what she says. And as ngdawg said above she is completely fighting the age thing the whole way. For the past few years we have been into getting in shape. She and I have both lost about around 35 pounds and she looks incredible! Her birthday was last weekend and she said she doesn't care what the birth certificate says, she's in her 20s. So I suppose feeling that she still has "it" could also be a big modivation for her. I tell her she looks great everyday but I guess it's different it get a rise out of a guy that isn't your husband. Maybe I am just being too jealous.

Well, ask yourself this: would she ever pass the point of flirting and move into cheating? If you feel that the answer is yes then you need to sit down and work it out with her because I think that she is just enjoying herself and she does go home with you so that makes me think that she is fully devoted to you but she likes to get attention every once in a while. It just makes you feel good.
If not then I guess your problem is just that it makes you uncomfortable and maybe she doesn't realize the extent or maybe she's thinking when it really bothers you you'll take action.

Maybe she is bored with your sex life? I could be way off here but it could be that she just has extra horniness to get out.

Joe is okay with it in our situation because he knows I would never cheat on him and I am just a sexual person and it's words.

[cmpbpv]

*****************************************************************************************************************

[Destrox]

I must say if I were in his shoes, I too would be quite buggered by this.

The way I was raised, you simply don't flirt with other women (or in her case, guys) out of RESPECT to your mate. The fact that she continues to do this, and finds your "worries" to be of so little importance, is in my book not only selfish but flat out disrespectful.

Yeah she wants to have a little fun, but to me that is borderline cheating when you play with someones emotions that much.

[Sultana]

Eh, the way I was raised, you don't allow others to change or dictate your behavior...there's a line, of course. But what if a husband (not nec. the OP) finds it "disrespectful" for his wife to joke with another male? To laugh? To talk? To be around...

I mean, you still have to be your own person and make your own decisions about your behavior, regardless of if you're married or not.

[abaya]

Originally Posted by cmpbpv

Like someone else said, nothing is harmless if it bothers someone.

Agreeing with what you (and someone else) said.

Also with Destrox, in the post after yours... it's an issue of respect, not of trust. I avoid flirting with other guys because I feel it would very rude and hurtful to my husband, even though he's very much NOT the jealous/insecure type. I'm certainly not "missing out" on anything by barring myself from flirting... I mean, what good does that kind of attention do in the long term for one's self image, anyway?

If I am talking at a party with someone of any gender, I appreciate their attention to my intelligence and/or wit as a person, not to the way I look as a female, or how sexy I appear to them... hello, there's a ring on my finger for a reason! My husband fulfills that sexual attention for me (among many other things!), and I really don't like it from anyone else... creeps me out, and is a sign of disrespect for our marriage, period.

I am not saying this is the case for everyone... but for us, and especially for me, this is the way I want it to be. I would be very uncomfortable flirting with other men on a regular basis.

[Destrox]

Originally Posted by Sultana

But what if a husband (not nec. the OP) finds it "disrespectful" for his wife to joke with another male? To laugh? To talk? To be around...

You know thats pushing the bounds of what this subject is about, so its useless to even mention those.

You're talking an obsessive control freak, while this is simply about his wife flirting. That is sexual body movements, skirt lifting, not every day things in a social environment.

Theres a difference in being your self selfishly, and being your self with respect to your significant other. Its just rude to not take care of what they think.

[Sultana]

Originally Posted by Destrox

You know thats pushing the bounds of what this subject is about, so its useless to even mention those.

You're talking an obsessive control freak, while this is simply about his wife flirting. That is sexual body movements, skirt lifting, not every day things in a social environment.

Theres a difference in being your self selfishly, and being your self with respect to your significant other. Its just rude to not take care of what they think.

It's wise to remember we have only one viewpoint posted of a two-party interaction.

[Infinite_Loser]

For the people who see nothing wrong with the OP's wife's flirting, I feel I must ask if you would feel the way if your SO was constantly flirting with other females? Somehow I can't bring myself to believe that you would.

Personally, I would be annoyed by this. I know when my ex-girlfriend flirted with other guys it bugged the living hell out of me to no end. I see it as a sign of disrespect.

[cadre]

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

For the people who see nothing wrong with the OP's wife's flirting, I feel I must ask if you would feel the way if your SO was constantly flirting with other females? Somehow I can't bring myself to believe that you would.

Personally, I would be annoyed by this. I know when my ex-girlfriend flirted with other guys it bugged the living hell out of me to no end. I see it as a sign of disrespect.

No, I would not be annoyed by it. Actually, I'd be a little turned on because that just means I win because he goes home with me.

[xepherys]

I think this is a matter of discussion, despite the OP saying he's talked to her about it. My wife and I both have somewhat flirtatious personalities, me possibly more so than her. I've always had a lot of female friends, and having that flirtatious attitude while being unavailable has suited me well, if nothing else because it makes my female friends feel good about themselves without me being just another guy "out to get them". *shrug*

HOWEVER, if my flirting (which is never teasing/physical like the OP described) ever bothered my wife, and she told me, it would end. Period! My wife is far too important to me to upset her over anything, especially something that insignificant. Likewise, I'm confident that she would do the same for me. I think it's terribly distasteful and disrespectful that she doesn't take you seriously Chad!

[ChadB]

Well thank you all for your opinions. It's a tough thing because in our day to day she seems to care for me as you'd expect but at the neighborhood parties with people she is comfortible with I always feel like the second fiddle. I'm not sure what course of action if any I'll take but it was good to see different point of view on the subject.

Thanks,

-Chad

[Sultana]

I think it's fantastic that you are willing to go to the effort to get different points of view and to examine your own motivations. Lots of people wouldn't bother, and would just continue on in their unhappiness. I sure hope things work out well for the both of you.