She wants to live together...
 

To make a long story short, my girlfriend wants to start living together, an idea I'm less than thrilled about. She gave me the whole "I want to see if you're committed" and the "I never could marry someone I've never lived with" lines, which I find slightly unfair. Yes, I do love her but as it stands, I happen to like the amount of freedom I have at the moment, and I feel that if we start living together then I'm definitely going to lose that as she is *Slightly* bossy and a complete neat-freak (Something I am totally not). I simply don't like the idea of having my girlfriend around 20+ hours a day. I like being around her, but not all the time.

Does that make me selfish? Slightly. I know it does. Anyway, as it stands, my girlfriend is rather pissed at me for my apparent lack of commitment and is putting all types of pressure on me. And I don't know what to do. It's either risk losing her or do something in which I really, really don't want to do at this point in time.

Any advice?

If you have any doubts at all, I most definitly would recommend that you DO NOT move in together. Speaking from personal experience, me and my ex moved in together and thought we were ready and both agreed to it. Yet living together with no personal space was a lot different than sleeping over all time but being able to go home after an argument for some privacy.
Considering that you already have doubts and you KNOW that you like your freedom, I'd say moving in is a bad idea. Just think about where you can go to calm down in a apartment/house where the 2 of you live together. The answer is nowhere haha. If she is bossy she will most likely follow you around and nag. In which point speaking for myself i was wishing i could dissappear.
But that's just me. I know people who move in together and love it, but to wrap it up, if you don't want to move in, then it definitly won't work out.
good luck

Well, the current status of your relationship aside, what worked out really well for my fiance and I was how we did it - although at the time, we didn't really realize how helpful it would be in the long run.

I'm not sure how often your girlfriend stays at your place, but mine used to sleep over every couple of weeks or so. Gradually, it became pretty much once a week, sometimes twice.

It continued progressing over the next year, year and a half, until she was staying at my place 5-6 nights a week - at that point, actually moving her stuff over was pretty much just a formality. There wasn't really any shocking habits that we had that the other person didn't know about, simply because she had stayed over so often before.

You're not really describing a healthy relationship here. You should definitely get to a point where you don't actively find her "bossy", and actually feel like you want to be around her more often.

If the idea puts you off, don't do it. It could be fear of committment, as i'm sure some people will likely suggest, but I don't think so. It just sounds like you genuinely aren't interested in spending more time with her. Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate the relationship?

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=103472

same girl as here?

I find that a little bit hypocritical on her part if it is the same girl... 2 months after cheating, she's now all about committed and wanting to test out married?

Don't move in together unless it's something that you want to do...

If you don't want your girlfriend around All The Time ... I think I agree with Analog - are you both in this relationship for the same reasons? If you're just wanting someone to have permanent girlfriend status - she needs to know this and be on the same page as you in order for the relationship to remain healthy.

From what you have typed, she's looking to take your relationship another step by moving together. If you plan to bail, do it before you get caught in a lease together. It's always less messy that way.

If indeed....these are the same woman.....you have nothing to lose. You worry of losing the relationnship by Not moving in together, and worry that you will lose freedom if you Do. To me at least.....if you actually care enough to forgive the indescretion, try it out...see where it goes, and be ready to cut your losses should it come to that.

You two are NOT married, and no one is gonna hold your hand in this....just dive in and hope for the best, all the while expecting the worst.

Yup. That's the same girl. But, as I stated in my other thread, I don't hold a grudge over the fact that she cheated once. We talked about it extensively and I realize that everyone makes mistakes. It would be slightly unfair for me to continue to hold one mistake against her.

Meh... I'm too forgiving, I know.

Anyway, aside from the one cheating incident, we've been together for two years. I suppose she feels that if this relationship is going somewhere that I should show it. The thing is, though, that I feel the relationship is fine at this point in time and I really don't want to live together right now. I love her dearly, but I don't want to give up the freedom to do the things I want to do just yet (Things such as have friends over and play games, something she hates).

Sounds like you answered your question... you aren't ready to move in together yet... if you did... you might end up being resentful towards her that you can't do what you want -- when you want...

No Soups plan sounds like a good compromise - start gradually... just have her start spending more time at your place, or vice versa - without giving up your own independence yet... you might find yourself not missing the nights in with the boys.

Doing something because you've been pressured into it, is just the wrong reason to do something...

As far as NoSoup's plan goes, she's really only spent the night at my place and/or vice versa two or three times in the two years we've been dating (Yes, that's sad. I know).

The biggest problem I have isn't the fact that by moving in together, I will be giving up a fair amount of freedoms and I don't think I quite want to let go of them just yet. Ehhh... That's a terrible reason, I know, but I don't think I'm quite ready to take that step. But, then again, from her perspective it has been two years with no sign of a true committment, I suppose.

Meh... I should go to sleep and think about this later.

And I agree that doing something because I've been pressure into it is a bad idea, but I thought being a man was all about doing what a woman wants (Or so it seems...).

Not sad... but it just doesnt seem like a relationship that's ready to go to the next step...
moving in together won't do anything to get her that commitment that she wants... commitment comes from within you... and it doesn't matter if you are on opposite sides of the planet or opposite sides of the couch.. committment is in your heart... not your location.
Well... in some worlds... and there's a name for men like that :D
There are two people in the relationship... it should be about what both of you want.

No, it's not a terrible reason. In fact, it's probably the best reason you could have for not wanting to move in together. A terrible reason would be: She doesn't brush her teeth until right before going to bed.

Keep in mind that any advice we offer is based solely on what we know of the situation from what we've read here, but based upon what I've read, I see a lot of red flags going up. The first and most obvious to me is that she's using manipulation and guilt to get you to do this. She's attempting to get you to do something you don't feel you're ready to do in order to prove your love for her. I realize you love her, but I can promise you that if you give in to this, things will only get worse. This isn't about a man being a man or anything of the sort - it's about you asserting yourself and your wants before they get usurped on a daily basis by someone who doesn't seem all that interested in your happiness.

Fear can make us do strange things. I say fear because your main reason for moving in with her is the fear of losing her if you don't. Do you really want to make such a large decision based on fear?

My best advice would be to tell her exactly what you've told us. You sound very thoughtful about this and very conscientious about your decision. If she does love and respect you, she will hear you out. If she is unwilling to respect your wishes now, then you are getting a preview of exactly how the rest of your relationship will be.

You 're not ready. End of story.

She's trying to find out if you want to marry her, something not surprising after 2 years. And since you don't want to live with her, odds are you don't want to marry her either. Don't be surprised if she wants to move on to someone else in the hopes of finding a husband, though--if she wants to get married, and you don't, it's doomed.

'no sign of true committment....'

I'd say sticking around after she ran around on you is a pretty good sign, eh?

Mal and NoSoup have this one already figured out, but let me add...

Any problems you already have in the relationship are just going to be exacerbated by moving in together. Every little quirk has the potential to be the single most annoying idiosyncracy...ever. The cute little habits and amusing oddities that you've noticed have the potential to make you tear your hair out. Because moving in together isn't just 'with them all the time' it's 'sharing space,' it's 'assimilating her shit with my stuff' (bless you, George Carlin)

It's a big step. You have to want to do it. I've lived with others most of my adult life, be they friends or girlfriends and when it clicks, it's fantastic. However, you have to work for it...dumb luck and blind obeisance aren't going to get anything done.

Dad....?

a few weeks ago she cheated on you, now she wants YOU to prove that YOU are committed to the relationship? WTF? that was the first thing that popped in my head when I read this thread. Essentially she did something knowing there was a good chance it would end the relationship, but decided to take the risk. You decided to forgive that, and now a few weeks later she's questioning how comitted you are. She's a hypocrite, plain and simple.

I am in the process of learning to co-habitate myself. Theres a lot of give and take and sometimes walk away and find quiet time for a little while. Compromise is the key word here. There are two people with two seperate visions on where the surround sound speakers should go. You learn to deal. As for your personal relationship... I dont think youd be happy living together. I adore my potential mate and enjoy darn near every second I have with him... even when hes driving me batty. (Insert sappy smile here)

Yeah, lots of red flags, kiddo. If she is worth being with and keeping, she will understand why you don't want to shack up right now. If not, then... good riddance to her.

I say don't do it.

If you aren't ready you aren't ready is true. But what is the sign of being ready?

I was ready once in my life and we moved in planned, that didn't turn out so well.

Next was circumstance, rommate was going to move I couldn't afford a place by myself, so I moved in with my girlfriend, that also didn't turn out so well.

Last was Skogafoss, we kept seperate apartments for a couple of years, bouncing back and forth depending on the days. She had a cat so she had to go to her place every day even if we stayed at my apartment. Soon we just stayed at her place because it was easier, she lived in the Village, I lived in Queens.

Soon it became obvious that we should just keep one apartment, and so we started looking for a suitable one for us. We didn't find anything we liked and eventually was offered a job in Long Island and we moved out of the city.

After one year we got engaged and then about another year we got married.

YMMV

Don't do it.

I agree with this 100%. Why stay with someone for two years when you don't have the same future in mind?? Maybe you should consider this also. Just an idea.

Sounds like this girl is really giving you the mental mind-fuck here.

Having said that, not only would I give a big "No thanks" to the living together thing, but I would back off and tell her you need space. Mention that she cheated on you, and you are not ready to let her out of the doghouse yet.

And if she starts talking shit, follow this advice: Get Out, and find someone better.

That sums it up nicely.

Just a little personal story to go along with it (wouldn't be me if I didn't put my two cents in :) )... my boyfriend and I were together for 5 years, and I spent most every weekend at his place for most of those years. I was living at my mom's house, and my way of paying rent was by going to school, so the idea of living together on our own wasn't financially an option in my mind. When I finished school, I moved across the country, and 10 months later, he joined me. Things were great for those five years when we weren't living together.

When we moved in together, things changed! I found all the financial problems he had, the little things that were okay when he was at HIS place weren't quite as okay when in OUR place. He also made up his mind (after waffling for years) that he does not want to get married again, or have any more kids. However, I do.

Bottom line: don't expect her to change, and she shouldn't expect you to change. If you're not happy not living together, you both will probably be even more unhappy living together. It will end things faster, but more painfully as well, since there will be moving and dividing of property involved.

Good luck, and let us know how things work out. =)

Living together will turn a shaky or rocky relationship into a living hell faster than anything I know.

Anything that causes you to be annoyed with her right now will grow into resentment and bitterness if you are living together.

RUN!

Learning to live with someone is tough. If you don't have a solid relationship to start with, you're going to have more trouble than it's worth. My SO has been nothing but supportive and understanding while I've been adjusting to our new situation.

If you aren't ready to give up your "freedom," and she isn't flexible enough to tolerate having the guys over once or twice a week, don't do it. You'll be stuck in a lease (unless you get one that's month to month) and that sucks.

It isn't about doing what she wants all the time. I find that letting him go off on his own actually helps since we are in such close quarters now. It takes two strong people to work our a cohab situation. Don't cave, or you'll be a doormat forever; completely ruined for any future women in your life.

This was probably the biggest issue with moving in together.

I prefer my home decor very, very, minimalistic.

For instance, let me make a list of every decorative item in my house...

1) A clock


That's it folks. Well, I should say that was it before my fiance moved in. Now I have all kinds of girly shit scattered through the house - most notably, my bedroom. Seriously, I have "I Love Lucy" memorabilia displayed in my bedroom now.

Not particularily related to the original post, but I figured I'd throw that in... :D

This is key. I think the question is not about whether you should move in together, but why you are in this relationship in the first place. It sounds like she basically annoys you after being too long together. That ain't right. You say you love her, but are you IN love with her? Or are you just putting up with her because you don't want to put in the energy of breaking up with her and finding someone else whom you DO love spending time with?

I mean that: Do you LOVE spending time with her? I don't mean, do you want to spend every second of your day with her, but do you TRULY look forward to being with her every day? Do you miss her presence, or do you look forward to getting rid of her after a set number of hours?

To be frank, it really sounds like you just want a girlfriend, to have a girlfriend... and one that doesn't expect you to grow up anytime soon. Which is fine and all, except that this isn't THAT girl. No offense to either of you, but you sound pretty incompatible at this point... certainly for living together, and perhaps in a relationship in general.

With her recent mess up I see this as her being scared that you may cash in on the return soon and if she is there, she can cover her assets and make sure that it doesn't occur. Also, like said in this thread many times it's not a decision to move in with each other, it just occurs. If you already feel that she does not want your friends around then it's a sign for you to take your leave, unless you feel the same way if her friends were always over. Also, do you sleep at her house? Do you see each other everyday? Or is this a when the need is around, relationship? Some people take time, and sometimes people know it's just not meant to be. The healthiest thing is when change and acceptance occurs by both parties with out an argument.

Quit allowing yourself to get walked all over. Keep your own place.

I just want to re-iterate that I do love spending time with my girlfriend and there are times of the day where I do miss her and wish she were around. However, I don't want her around ALL of the time (If that makes any sense). I like my space. I like being able to take a break from her now and then (Especially when she starts to royally piss me off). I like having my friends over. Those aren't things which I want to give up just yet (Partly selfish, yes, but I don't care).

Anyway, I'm not going to say that our relationship has been perfect because it hasn't (There's that whole cheating incident which I forgave), but I really do love her. I'm simply not ready to start living together yet. Maybe some could say that after two years you would think I'd be a bit more serious, but I thought things were going well (Save the few bumps in the road). Things such as living together and getting married aren't high on my priority list at the moment. That's not saying that I don't want to in the future, but at the present time I just have other things in which I would like to do.

Oh! Before I forget... I know that many people seem to despise cheaters on this board, so I will say this. I know that what she did was a horrible thing, but she only did it once in the two years that I've known her and she confessed to it. Everyone makes mistakes (I'm pretty sure I said that earlier in this thread, but I'm just wanted to re-iterate that point).

This sparked something in my brain... has she always been "slightly bossy," or is this a new thing since she cheated on you? If it's a new thing, or has intensified since the cheating, she may be acting like this to push you away, either because she's either afraid that you'll cheat on her to get back at her, or afraid that you'll break up with her because of it. Or she may be trying to "make you break up with her" by acting this way. That way, she's not the one who has to make the decision.

If this is a new thing, the ball is in your court. You can either let her push you away and break up with her, or you can confront/talk to/communicate with her, asking her why she's acting this way. She may not even be aware that she's doing this, and bringing it to the forefront of her mind may change her behavior, and things may be different.

One more thing... did you ever discover why she cheated on you? What was going through her head? There must be a reason, or she probably wouldn't have cheated on you in the first place. I doubt she'd do it "just because". I've cheated before, and I know why I did it, and told my bf why I did it, so we could learn and grow from it. If she doesn't know, and things don't change, it may happen again. If she can't tell you why (whether she herself knows or not), then you don't know what's wrong, and can't help the relationship by working on your end to fix it.

I dont want to turn this into a cheaters should burn in hell thread... having been cheated on, it's heartbreaking and it sucks... I think it's admirable that you are able to forgive her and are able to trust her... but make no mistake about it - cheating is not a mistake... don't dismiss it.. she didn't accidentally take her clothes off and jump into bed with a man who wasn't you...

I don't mean this as a slam, so please don't take it thisway... your dismissing it that she only did it once in two years? Do you want to give her a medal forthat?


Now back to the discussion at hand...

If you don't move in with her... what is she going to do? Leave? Do youreally want your future based on an ultimatum?

Why not try doing sleepovers first spend the weekends together and see if you actually can stand being together...

There's nothing wrong with wanting your own space or having your friends over. Absolutely nothing wrong with either one of those, and the fact that you think it's even partly selfish says to me that you don't have enough self confidence, and don't know who you really are yet.

You are an individual. She is an individual. The two of you are in a relationship. However, you MUST NOT lose your identity just because you're in a relationship. This is also from experience: she was attracted to you originally as you were, as an individual, not as her boyfriend. Yes, people grow and change, but losing your identity completely is not growing or changing in a positive way. In all of the strongest couples I know, they each have their own hobbies, interests, and identities. They work well together, and they don't say "No, I don't want your friends coming over at all."

I think if she cheated on you this recently, that she shouldn't be making ultimatums - also, in a healthy relationship ultimatums shouldn't have to be made.

If your relationship isn't so healthy then you probably should not be considering moving in at all. Also the fact that she is demanding commitment from you this way is unreasonable in light of her recent actions.

In all fairness, if you have decided to forgive her then she shouldn't have her mistake held against her - but she SHOULD know better than to press you right now. What else could she expect but a straight "no"?

Also, you are not ready. Not only that, she is probably not the right girl - at least not now. Because right now you obviously want totally opposite things. She wants to "move in and make a commitment" and you want to "be free to have fun with the boys and play games". Unless either of you can compromise, it's never going to work.

I think also, that even though you say you love her and want to be with her, that maybe you don't like her as much as you think. Or at least, aren't as unconditionally in love as you think. Because if you've been with her for 2 years and you don't want to live with her, at all, and she has only stayed at your place 3 times in the time you've been together, well then you guys don't sound so "tight". Living with someone doesn't mean being with them all the time, not if you have some amount of independence and separate interests. Nor does it mean your friends can't come over, if people understand that their partner's friends are to a great extent part of the package.

Whatever you do, you owe it to yourself and also to her to tell her the truth. If SHE is that committed and you are that sure that it's just a question of wrong timing, then the living together step will be something you both can put on hold for a while.

Edit: Wanted to add something - I wonder if I'm mistaken when I say this line of thought is something that has gone through your mind (and many peoples') often:

I think I really love her, but sometimes she is so bossy...I'm not sure if I could take that all the time...also sometimes she does/says that annoying little thing (whatever it is) and I have told her already I don't like it much and could she try and tone it down...but she just does it the same anyway...damn sometimes she is such an annoying bitch....but I love her...it will all smooth out in the end....because I want it to...she's such a great girl...this has to work out....I really love her....but what if it all goes horribly wrong...it won't I will make things work....

Ok I know this sounds like a lot of rambling but this would be a train of thought so to speak. I think that if you are thinking this way, in a yesnoyesno sort of way, that the relationship doesn't have a future. When you are giving up too much, accepting too much, and trying that hard to make the relationship work, I think possibly it's not going to work. Speaking from my own experience. If you have doubts about small but essential things, and the other person is with almost all certainty not going to change those things, eventually the relationship will fail. I know how it is when you're so sure that your love is strong, but little daily things are mining it and you try and skip over them like they are nothing. In the end, it doesn't work that way.

For me it was things like completely ignoring me when it suited him, never apologizing - ever, and thinking it was very important that his friends thought I was hot and told him so regularly.

/me jumps up and down like an idiot pointing at tippler...
Exactly!!!!

I really don't have anything to add. I just wanted to stand next to little_tippler because she's so pretty. :suave: Besides...she made the point in far fewer words than it would have taken me. ;)

An observation I have made through months of living with my boyfriend:

The little annoyances that just bug you a little now will bug you 10x more when you're living together, because you see the evidence of them a lot more often.

You REALLY have to be ready to make this kind of commitment, and yes, it means sacrificing your freedoms. You don't sound at ALL ready to do this--DON'T DO IT.

And like BigBen said--if she talks shit, find a new girl.

Amen sister! (I may call you sister on this one?;) ) I however have a philosophy... Karma will kick someone in the patootie far worse than I ever could... give em enough rope and he/she will hang themselves.
I gotta say NO GO on this one Houston has a problem and it is fatal to the mission.

I suppose you could say that my thought process is somewhere along those lines.

Anyway, I know that we won't be moving in together anytime soon. I suppose I can only wait and see where the relationship goes from here.

I've seen a lot of similar situations where one part in the relationship (usually the woman but not always) wants more tokens of established relationship than the other. They also tend to use terms like "my boyfriend" instead of the boyfriend's name in conversation to drive home the fact that they indeed do have one of those fancy 'boyfriend' thingys and that they are In A Relationship. Being in a relationship is higher status than being a pathetic loser single, and living together with someone is another step up on the ladder.
How are things looking from her perspective? Are her old friends from highschool getting married and having kids? Are her parents asking her when she's going to settle down with someone? Not that I condone her behaviour, but peer pressure can be a mean thing. If you want to work a little on your relationship, this is an angle you could investigate.

She's pushing. Don't know why, but she's pushing, testing. First she cheats; then confesses. You forgive her. Now she's asked you to move in to prove your love. She may be doing this unconsciously. But she's testing the limits of what you will or won't do, and for your sake, _don't_ give in on any demand or pressure simply for fear of losing her.

If she really loves _you_ honestly, she'll be willing to negotiate on things she needs in the relationship -- not just make demands. This is something she needs to learn, and who's to say she won't? But she never will if she learns she can just make demands and have them met.

I once turned down a girlfriend who wanted me to move in -- not because I needed my space, but because I didn't think she was serious enough. I'd lived with somebody and broken up, and I didn't want to go through all that again unless we were both ready to give it a good shot. But she didn't want to talk out our expectations and all, she just wanted me in there, without even making a commitment to try for the long haul. She just wanted company, I think.

She'd had a bunch of failed live-in relationships, and I could see this being another one. I liked her a lot, and could have loved her. But she didn't want to do the work.

I would say that your friend may think that relationships progress by one party simply making demands of the other. Tell her that this is not so. Make her join you in doing the work of making real, joint decisions. Her "bossiness" is more about immaturity than a skill for taking charge.

I always found that, after cheating, a person becomes very jealous / suspicious that the other person will cheat.

This is stupid, but, it is how people think.

Maybe she is worried you are going to go for a revenge fuck, or that, the reason you forgave her is because you ran around too.

Anyway,

I don't think you should move in with her, I think, you have to restart the clock after the cheating thing. That is, you have only been dating her for 2 months. Moving in with someone after 2 months is crazy.

From my point of view, moving in at any time is crazy. I was exactly where you are before getting married. I liked my place, I liked being able to go get a paper and coffee every saturday morning, or being able to sit out on my balcony and generally be free.

I also loved my future wife and we moved in together an hour after getting married. Not one second before.

I have never understood what (barring obstacles such as finances or relocation) the whole appeal of co-habitation is. Is it the reduction of space? Is it the joy of having to be considerate of another person's concerns without any binding ties? Is it the handing your nuts over in a change purse?

The reason I did it, and I'm glad I did, is to make sure that I'm compatible with the person, really compatible, before making that commitment. We dated for almost six years before moving in together, and since October, I've found out things that he wasn't sharing with me when we were just dating. Things that I don't want to spend the rest of my life dealing with.

If I had married him before moving in together, I wouldn't have known just how much my credit score would have gone down, just how much I would have had to take charge of the finances and treat him like a child when it comes to money, and just how much he actually doesn't want to have any more children. Honesty and full disclosure has to be a two way street, and I didn't know that he wasn't telling me everything. Things would have been a LOT messier had I found this out after we were legally connected, because I'm not willing to settle for a relationship like this, and won't accept it for the rest of my life.

I WAS going to say for the sake of arguement, that moving in is a pretty big step and some people will never feel that they are fully ready. Also, part of loving someone is bending to them. You know putting the other person ahead of yourself, and maybe you should go with your heart this time.

HOWEVER, I read a little more and saw that she recently cheated on you. No dice bro. She sounds like the type of person that needs the power in the relationship, and she lost some of her footing. THis seems like a ploy to regain the upperhand. You can forgive her, like you said, but regaining her trust doesnt come that quickly.

Wounds need time to become scars. Moving in while you are still healing is not a good idea, it could reopen that wound.

Different strokes for different folks. I don't think I would have been able to keep up a charade of fiscal responsibility for six years of dating.

I can't help but wonder, did you love him?

i say trust your gut feeling--if you're even slightly hesitant, DON'T do it.
You'll regret not having listened to your gut instinct. And personally when I feel pressured by someone to do something, I tend to go the other way. They need to respect your "readiness", and not pressure you. Everything takes time.

Im sorry, I just have to say....if you are living with the right person, you dont give anything up. Not one time in almost 3 years do I feel like I've "lost or given up" one damn thing. If we want quiet time we give the other quiet time, if one of us wants friends over...those friends come over. I gained by living with Dave before marriage.....not given up.

(this is gonna sound wrong and I dont mean it to...but I know it will)
HOW does a person "love" someone they dont want to spend all their time with?

Poppinjay, thanks for this post. Very honest and helpful, I think... and points out that even though it's nice to have your own space, if you really love someone, it all goes out the window! I have no problem with never living together before getting married; in fact, I prefer it. Then again, I also don't begrudge people who choose to live together beforehand, but I don't see much of a need for it.

As for finding out finances, neatness, etc habits... well, it doesn't take much to bring up those topics in a deep and serious conversation, or to simply observe someone's habits over the period of a year or two. I consider myself a very observative, inquisitive, analytical, nosy, and downright intense person, and anyone who has put up with my scrutiny of every aspect of their life for two years (and still loves me) is going to be hard-pressed to shock me with any insane, crazy lifestyle habits once we move in together. :D (Talkin' bout my beloved boyfriend.) :icare:

I don't begrudge anybody who has a live-in arrangement. A grudge would suggest jealousy.

I would never offer unsolicited advice, and likely wouldn't think about it much, actually. It's just one of those things I don't understand. Plus, like a lot of people, I've known those types who constantly move from short term relationship to short term relationship treating them as if they are the answer to housing needs.

I sort of wonder if that's the case with OP's girlfriend.

Still do love him, and am trying to help him get on his feet financially before he goes out on his own again. However, in this case, I don't think he'll learn from his mistakes, even though I hope against hope that he does. I'm not willing to bet the rest of my life on that, though.

abaya, I agree, it doesn't take much to bring up the topics, but it does take honesty going both ways (which it wasn't). Observing his habits is all well and good, and I did, but he hid a lot of stuff/purchases, and I've found things, even in the last couple weeks that were hidden.

I think you do lose some of your freedoms, if only out of respect for the other person. For instance, I can't just drop everything and drive up to my parents' without a moment's notice--being in a relationship and having respect for my partner means telling him where I am going and/or planning in advance, especially for big trips such as that. If I just got up and left the apartment, I think he'd probably be a little puzzled, maybe even a little hurt that I didn't tell him where I was going or what I was doing--though sometimes I do tell him that I am going on a "mystery adventure" and he just has to live with that explanation.

I also can't be as fiscally irresponsible as I once was because I feel that I have another person to think of when spending. I suppose in the end the loss of that freedom is really something gained--I've saved a lot more money than I ever have before.

But yes, I think in the end it is a case of something lost but far more gained, in the right situation.

I don't really think so, as she's almost always lived alone.

lol I guess Dave and I are just different. I dont see telling him that Im leaving to go somewhere without him as losing a freedom...I see it as being courteous :lol:

I give up on this, and the other discussion that I somehow sparked....I will just accept that dave and I live in a different reality and be perfectly happy with how it works hehehe

The way onesnowyowl puts it though, is that losing a freedom is not always a bad thing. And it's not so much a loss of freedom as it is respect for your SO.

Different tastes are negotiated when a couple goes to a movie, restaurant, monster truck rally... I spent a recent bachekor weekend renting all the DVDs I've been wanting to see that I know Ms. Poppy wouldn't appreciate.

It's the type of abating freedoms that is described as sacrifice, which is generally a good thing. You give some, you gets some.

And now the thread is completely jacked.

If you do not feel completely comfortable moving in with her I would highly recommend against it. If you do it because you feel pressured then you will only end up resenting her and maybe even breaking up. Women have a natural tendency to push all the committment bullshit, and I am guilty of it myself at times. The point is that she needs to understand where you are coming from because you make a very rational arguement. If she can't understand your point of view now when you are living seperately, then it could end up being your worst nightmare if you move in with her.

Sit down and reread what you wrote about how she's only spent the night at your place 3-4 times over the course of a 2 yr relationship.

Over time most relationships either end or they slowly,naturally progress further, spending weekends, living together,engagement,marriage.

There's been no progression over time in the status of this relationship and that speaks volumes. The two of you have basically just been treading water.
not going forward but not having the courage to directly address the issue.

If I were you I'd sit her down and tell her that you find her a fun gal to hang out with,that the sex has been decent but that you don't see her as live in SO or wife material, then either agree to a non-excluisive relationship or end it entirely.

These kind of stalled relationships can drag on and on forever and are the type of relationship that ends up leaving people jaded and too bitter to appreciate or even recognise the next great potential partner they might meet.

Btw, if you sit down and really get honest with yourself I think you might realise that you were able to forgive her cheating because you're not really all that into her.. you know it,she obviously knows it and it goes unsaid but not unfelt by you both. I'd end it.

Ouch! I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Very good observation.

Maybe I'm still too young not to see the complications in living together but as soon as I knew it was time I asked my now fiancee because I wanted to see her when I woke up in the morning and I want to be able to say good night without her jumping from the car. We got a small sublet appartment in my town and we are right downtown. It's perfect.

i think "preasuring" is certainly wrong but I don't see anything wrong with sharing your living place. But thats me.

By the sound of it the two problems are that you like having the freedom to do as you please, and that she has a problem with this lack of commitment. That is what this is, a lack of commitment. She may be going about this the wrong way, I believe she is, but she is right, you arn't able to commit to that lifestyle yet. Tell her you are commited to take it farther and commited to keep seeing her but you arn't comfortable with that yet. If she loves you she will stick around.