Not *MY* woman!
 

Question:
I know that one of the top 3 sexual fantasies for men is to watch or be sexually involved with 2 women simultaneously. Of course this would involve woman-on-woman sexual interaction.

So one time a completely spontaneous opportunity came up to experience this, and I started forward with it because A) I'm interested in trying new things, and B) I *really, honestly* thought the hub would enjoy it. Turns out that assumption B was wrong. Dead wrong. :eek: OK, yes, I should have talked it over with him first, I suppose, but like I said, this was completely out of the blue, and I thought it would be interesting to "see what happens next". I really, really thought hubby would enjoy it. I personally am not sexually attracted to women, although I can appreciate beauty where ever I find it, you know? And I don't think it would hurt, unless she has long nails or something. :lol:

I talked about this to a good friend of mine who is very bi-sexual, and she told me that while many men have a fantasy like that, when it comes down to it, most don't want Their Woman involved. Would you guys agree with this statement?

I guess this is kinda tied to the "Age-old question" thread, in that if I see that my guy is attracted to certain things consistently, I think it would be good for me to see if I can make that happen for him, to some extent.

So I took a risk, and it didn't pan out. In fact it turned out fairly badly. If I can learn from this, it won't have been completely in vain.

It really depends on the relationship boundaries. A lot of guys would see this as cheating, simply because it's not about them them them. For me, I wouldn't mind if my girlfriend (not my woman) were with another lady, and as a matter of fact I would quite enjoy it. However, I have fairly lax boundaries when it comes to our relationship, and I would likely not have a problem if she were with another man as well, as long as she talked with me about it beforehand..

I suppose when faced with the reality of a fantasy like this, an unexpecting man could suddenly see the other woman as competition, and feel threatened or jealous. I imagine this feeling would be even stronger given a mmf threesome or open relationship.

Of course, I have no experience in the matter. Strictly fantasy for me! :)

Not all men feel this way. Some are just more secure. :)

It's not necessarily security - just some things are better left to fantasy...

If I were your partner, Sultana, I'd be upset that you thought you ought to have a sexual experience with another girl despite not thinking of oyurself as bisexual.

I'd not want anyone to go against their nature or desires to please me.

Some things are definitely better in fantasy... I was just referring to the other posts' supposition of jealousy.

I think Fresnelly has touched on something important. Jealousy and competition. It isn't a sign of insecurity as much as it is crossing into areas where many do not want to go. I would imagine this would be compounded in Sultana's case by the fact that they didn't discuss it to begin with.

I like to think that I am very secure in my relationship with my wife. But I can say that if we were out and she started to makeout with either another woman or another man, I'd be fairly upset.

Part of it would be the green monster of jealousy, but the main part would be (assuming again that we have not discussed this in advance) that she was acting erraticly. I would wonder if I had done something to provoke this sort of reaction (i.e. drive her into another's arms). I would wonder if she was looking to purposefully make me jealous. I would wonder why I didn't know that she was "into women" before now?

It's not cool to be on the receiving end of a surprise like that.

I think it is the worst feeling in the world, to know that your significant other is being sexual with someone else. I don't care if it is a guy or girl.

I have to say that the whole threesome thing is entirely inflated by internet porn, and a comedian once said "Oh, great, two women who I cannot bring to orgasm..."

I will leave it in the realm of fantasy, and not my fantasy.

Sultana, you get huge bonus points for effort, though!

I'm a conundrum: I'm secure, but I'm still jelous. I am not interested in a 3 way because I love my wife and would never cheat on her and I would not want to share myslef with any other woman. I'm content. Besides, we're already kinky enough.

OK, but do you still actively seek porn with multiple women content?

If so, does that mean it's OK for you to fantasize about it, but not for your wife to be involved in it, hence the "not my woman" title?

as long as it had been discussed before hand and we were both ok and had setup whatever boundaries we felt were appropriate. I would be ok with that kind of stuff...

now just having it sprung on me out of the blue might be a little unnerving, and I dont know that I would be as happy about it without any prior discussion.

Yeah, when it comes to stretching relationship boundaries, surprises aren't a great idea.

However, with discussion, negotiation, and mutual boundary-redefining, this sort of thing can be a whole hell of a lot of fun. :thumbsup:

Well, I passively seek porn with woman on woman. But it's not just a "Not with my woman" thing. It's also a "not with my man" thing for my wife. We are both happy with 1 on 1 and are both equally disattified with more than 2 people.

I don't know if I would say that I actively seek it out. The way I see it with regards to porn: One woman is hot. Two women = twice the hot.

It isn't a matter of needing to act it out so much as it is good to look at naked women.

Now, I know my girlfriend wouldn't ever put herself in this situation so I don't have to worry about it but...


I'm not as cool with it as I thought I'd be. Not really sure why... just doesn't sit well.

It's a fantasy/reality thing. Some of us are happy with a fantasy as long as it stays that way. When it finally becomes real, all bets are off. Suddenly a scenario which previously was just visualized, now has all sorts of strings attached and emotions involved.

Imagining my partner with another woman is pretty hot, I suppose, but I haven't fantasized about it before. If it were to become a prospect in real life, we'd have to give it some serious thought and discussion.

Basically, I don't see actualization as the natural next step from fantasy.

My wife is strict on "no sharing", so clearly, not my woman. However, even if it were to be a possibility, I don't know if I could go through with it. I can't imagine dealing with this extra person (male or female) on a normal basis afterward if they were a friend. If they were a stranger, I don't know that I would even enjoy it. However, it remains a hot fantasy.

Some people would see their woman on another woman the same way as on another man- it's still intimate contact with their spouse that isn't them... and not everyone is cool with sharing.

I mean, what if your husband had randomly brought home a girl and said, "we're all 3 of us going to have sex now, because I think you'd like to see me with another girl"- without asking you first? Somehow I think that wouldn't sit so well.

I wouldn't want to do it for simple practicality. The way I see it, if pleasing (and being pleased by) one woman aint enough, you're not doing it right.

That and I'm really bad at multi-tasking.

There's a lot of machismo in having two chicks at once. I don't generally buy into that crap, so my desire to do it is lessened. And for me, I feel like it would take away from the act.. I guess I'm just old-fashioned that way.

That's not to say that it isn't cool for some people. The half-joking sentiment at the top of the post applies to myself only, others can do what they will.

Been there, done that, holy christ it was hot :D I have no jealousy issues at all when another woman is involved. About the same time this happened I brought it up (as a hypothetical) with a friend of mine, and he was very put off by the idea of his gf (soon to be wife) with another woman.

With ANYTHING like this communication is the key. If you would have brought it up with him prior as a hypothetical he may have had a different reaction.

I don't know if its a 'most' or a 'many' but a lot would not be able to handle it. I don't think it would be the same as the reaction most men get when they see their woman with another guy, but it would trigger a lot of insecurity flags.

Some people will say fantasy is better than reality. I think this is bullshit unless your fantasy is something god awful. Sharing your fantasies is the first step (communication) but living them can take you to a whole new level in your relationship. Maybe this didn't work out for you, but your motivation was in the right place, you did it for him more than for yourself, you wanted HIM to have a fantasy come true, and thats a wonderful thing your S.O. can give you. As long as you approach it from this direction (and again communitcate prior) you can have a lot of fun and end up closer than ever.

Interesting...

If this is something my wife was interested in, I'd not be against it. I don't know how involved I would feel comfortable with getting myself (though watching surely wouldn't be a bad thing)... but that could change if we had talked about it first. First of all, if it was purely sexual, then I would not be jealous. However, this is a double standard as I would probably get VERY jealous if it was another man.

My friends and I have debated the topic of "turning someone gay/lesbian". Frankly, if my wife left me for a woman, I'd be far more understanding than if she left me for another man. The latter gives you the sense of "what does he have that I don't?". The first doesn't have that particular question attached... you both have things the other doesn't, and there is no compensating for those items. *shrug*

I think that's a large part of the issue. For those who aren't into group sex, it wouldn't be new, exciting, or lovely that the partner decided to explore. It would hurt the relationship. It's never good to assume, especially with the opposite sex.

To be honest, I'd be worried about the part where you decided to be sexual with a woman despite having no sexual inclinations towards women. But I'm not sure how common my feeling is, since I have a very unusual perspective on romantic relationships. Someday I'll make a post about that. :P

My experience says that, especially if both women aren't very into each other, the risk is not really worth the reward. If both girls are doing it with the goal of getting the guy's primary attention, things can only succeed if there is a very delicate balance.

I understand your question though Sultana. I think I'd have to be chalked up as one of those "fantasy/reality" people. Sounds great, but probably not something that would really pan out to be as good in reality. :o

Been there done that.

Meh, it was OK, but I much prefered the 3-some I had with 2 women when it was ALL about me.

Watching 2 women go at it is nice and all, but not the ultimate.

Being with 2 women who are only interested in you, well, now, it doesn't get any better than that.

I think I'd like to do the 2 girls and me thing once. My wife and one of our friends and me. But it would be hard to just do it once and then act all normal with them. It would be for me anyway, because anytime after that that i'd see them I'd be like "remember that threesome we had? That was awesome!"

I wouldn't mind if a girlfriend of mine had a girlfriend. If the other girl was a lesbian and not into me sexually, it would work out much better. And, I wouldn't want it to be a new lesbian girlfriend each week.

There would have to be communication and rules and boundries setup before, but as long as my girlfriend could love two people at the same time, and we all could be really close.

I wouldn't want another guy to come into the bedroom though.

There seems to be a case of cognitive dissonance going on with some men here... those who like fantasizing, but who would actually be turned off if that fantasy came true. I guess my understanding of fantasies was that fantasy = dream that you want to come true. If you dream about doing it and it turns you on, then wouldn't it be an even bigger turn-on to actually DO it in real life? I mean, why else would you fantasize about something if the reality didn't turn you on? Thus I don't understand why some men would dream about their wife being with another woman and then get jealous when an opportunity to fulfill that dream came true.

I do understand that selfishness is part and parcel of most relationships, and that partners have the right to exert control on their wives/husbands if the partner is uncomfortable with certain acts. But I would be confused and frustrated if my partner got very turned on by watching lesbian porn, but then controlled my exploration of that very scene because he couldn't handle it. It just seems like there's major cognitive dissonance or something going on there...

When you fantasize about something, it's just images and there's never real concerns involved. When you fantasize you have complete control over the situations and you don't have to worry about feelings getting hurt...heck you don't even have to worry about scheduling or anyone finding out. There's so many factors that come into play when you bring something into reality that the "thing" may no longer even resemble the fantasy.

Real life has consequences and repercussions. I've also fantasized about killing my boss -- but I'm not going to do it.

It ain't dissonance. It's actually closer to reading a fiction book. I read Dune, for example. I enjoyed the book emensly. The story was brilliant, the characters were well developed, the environment was astounding. Woudl I want to be on Arakis? Hell no. There is a fundamental distinction between a person's perspective on a world they know is ficticious, and the real world (just ask Neo). When one is immerced in a ficticous scenereo, like enjoying two women going at it, there is only a partial emmersion into that reality. We always have roots in the real world. Because of this, we can tweak the rules and even ignore rules such as morality and judgment from others. I occasionally look at pornography. I do find women other than my wife attractive. Does that mean I'm going to cheat on my wife? Jebus, no! I love my wife more than anything in the world, AND I think she is the hotttest woman I've ever seen. Despite that I do occasionally look at pictures of naked women. I don't have a stash or anything, but I am human.

Porn is not a dream, it's a fantisy. Dreams are things that you want to come true. Fantisies are things to enjoy for a memont and then return to reality.

And it seems (particularly in men) that fantasy can often be nothing more than idle curiousity rather than any sort of desire to act. I'm not sure my girlfriend understands this, yet -- saying "I wonder what that would be like," like above -- doesn't mean that we have any intentions to act on it.

Some of my friends know me as The Stupidest Guy Ever or The Guy Who Turned Down a Threesome With His Hot Girlfriend and Her Hot Former Girlfriend. In reality, it was a way for her to cheat on me without the guilt, and she admitted as much once the relationship had been over for a few years. She and the girl wanted to hook up again, but my girlfriend liked me too much to cheat, hence the offer of the threesome. If it was porn, it would have been very hot, but as real life it was a slap in the face.

As far as Sultana's original post, I've never been in that particular scenario since I would never ask any woman that I'm with to do something that she didn't like, whether it was to be with another woman, anal or whatever. If she wanted to experiment, I'd consider it if it was something that I'm into as well, but even then it's not an automatic.

So considering your responses, would most of you not want your fantasies to come true?

I ask because I watch porn and fantasize a great deal, but I guess I tend to watch porn/fantasize about things that I would find hot in real life, too (e.g. I don't watch BDSM, etc because it would turn me off in real life), so maybe my porn tastes are different. I would find it weird fantasizing about something that would actually turn me off in real life, which is why I'm trying to understand the guy's point of view here.

I do understand what you guys are saying... my boyfriend and I had a discussion about this in the car last night, and he said many of the same things. I'm saying most of these things just for the sake of seeing what other guys say, and if there is some consistency to perception of fantasy vs. reality for men/women.

Some fantasies I intend to never see the light of day, and I'm aware of it. Like being dominated - I find that interesting in concept, and enjoy some talk about it during booty (especially since I am able to trust Q so completely in the bedroom), but I know I wouldn't enjoy it in any terms heavier than that.

However, fantasies about including others are hot in my mind, and hot in real life too. Spontanaeity can be good if the two understand each other.

While gender roles are blurring as of late, the way I was raised was raised in society was fundamentally different than the way I would have been raised had I not been born with a Y chromosome. Anyone old enough to be on TFP was born in or before the 1980s, so we were raised thinking "Playboy is cool for boys, porn is bad for girls." Although many women have found and enjoyed porn since their early adolecense, the way society (and I realize I am making generalities, but bear with me) putys us i our place does play some role in the differences betwen how you see porn and how I and other men see porn.

Pornography - at least for men - is about two things: escapism and libido. Escapism is what I outlined above; it's like reading a fiction book. There is an element of suspense in entering a world strange to your own. In this world social norms and morality are relative, and are certianly different than the rules of reality. I have never had a pizza delivered by a sexy blond who decides to stick around and enjoy 2 hours of my time - if you know what I mean. This is not reality, and because many men are accustomed to pornography they have learned to seperate the rules of the fiction from the rules of reality. That being said, it is enjoyable to enter the world pornography creates. In this world the libido is satiated before morality and social norms. If one feels like having sex, one simply does (with whoever, whenever). This is fun, because the libido usually takes a back seat to morality. My morality keeps me from cheating. If my libido called the shots, I very well could cheat.

I have often fantasized about watching an annoying customer or two have every hair on their body be pulled out one by one in a very slow torturtous way... It gets me thru some days... I Know in reality that wouldn't be such a good idea...

Fantasies are just that -- fantasies... something to get you thru some days and nights... not necessarily wanting them to come true... but it's fun to think about...

I don't think this analogy applies to sexual fantasies. I loved reading dune too but it didn't give me a woody. If you get turned on by the thought of your woman with another woman, she wants to do it as well, why not? This isn't a fantasy in the fictional magic sense. The difference between a sexual fantasy and reality is about 30 minutes of your time and a willing participant or two, or three..well you get the idea.

Using your analogy the reason you watch a porn is the same as you watch Citizen Cane. The motivations are completely different though.

If you have a strong relationship, and you don't define it based on sex, living out your fantasies together can be not only 'fun' but make your relationship even stronger. Christian forced monogamy is not the natural human state, and leads to a great deal of unnecessary strife. Everyone has their limits, but if you both want to try something, why not do it?

I really think its kind of sad that people are so worried about being themselves sexually, and so confined by jealousy and insecurity that they are missing out on a really wonderful part of life. Slaying the green eyed monster and getting to know your partner loves YOU for who you are not because they are your sperm depository is really a great feeling.

Dune gave me a woody... Chani was teh hotness!

It is not a question of not *MY* woman for me. My fantasties often involve my wife alone with me doing some of the things that we have done before, or things that I'd like to do in the future with just her. My fantasies also include all manner and variety of things that we have yet to try (and quite likely never will) including MFF and MMF threesomes, etc. I think that, as other posters have suggested, it would be inappropriate to "surprise" the other person with the reality of something that you have previous only discussed in fantasy. I think that if you are ready to push the boundaries of your relationship and openly discuss making something like this fantasy into a reality, then more power to you... more power to your relationship.

As for me, I'd like to think that I would be open to the idea. I am all about pleasure. If it brings us both pleasure and sexual happiness, then it is a go with me. I doubt that my wife would be so willing though, so I likely would not have the chance to find out reality vs. fantasy.

Wow Mal, I think this is the first time I've disagreed with anything you posted, but not too strongly at least :D

I think people are mixing specific fantasies with general ones.

You might fantasize about killing someone, but there are reasons why this would be a 'bad thing' and I'd also hope it doesn't turn you on sexually.

You might fantasize about having sex with the boss, and again, there are reasons why this could be a 'bad thing' in terms of your job, home life, etc.

You might fantasize about having a FMF, and you find out your S.O wants to do it too. It too could be a 'bad thing' in some circumstances, but it can be a very good thing as well. To just dismiss a sexual fantasy out of hand might mean you are missing out on what would otherwise be a good addition to your life.

Not every fantasy has to be fulfilled. I enjoyed Moby Dick. Doesn't mean I have to go whaling.

A lot can be gained by from challenging the expectations and relationship definitions that society gives us. But it's not for everyone.

I didn't get a woody from Dune either, but I was stimulated in a place that usually doesn't get stimulated: my need for adventure. I don't see that as too different from the libido: my need for sex. It's a matter of putting yourself into a different reality in which you can satiate desires that would not be apporpriate or possible to satiate otherwise.
I don't care for Citizen Cane. Again, this is about escapism, whether you are eescaping for porn or any other form of stimulation.
I don't define my relationship with my wife on sex alone, although it's incredible. I define our relationship by all it's facets, but neither of us are intereted in a 3-some in reality. If it's not fun for either of us, why persue it? Whether or not monogamy is natural, I enjoy it.
I don't know why I'm not interested in a 3-some in real life, but I'm not. It's really that simple. Whether it's Jodeo-Christian programming or simply the way I am, it's just not on my list of things to do.

I'm not sure if this is a gender or personality difference, but it's definitely something that I, as a male, fail to see from the opposite side. I bet you can look at a person and see that they're attractive, and even wonder what they'd be like to "lie with" in the Biblical sense, without saying that it ever will or should come to fruition.

It's entirely possible for something attractive to become very UNattractive when you apply the constructions of morality and reality. If I stop for 5 seconds to ponder what someone looks like under their clothes, it doesn't mean I WANT to see them under their clothes. Becuase in reality, things like reponsibility, decency, morality, and trust come into play. And when those things come into the "balancing act," they far outweigh any "fantasy" desire I might have had.

It's like man I really wonder what it would be like to do 200 mph on a street bike through crowded streets ripping between cars and running red lights like a true maniac. Holy shit that's awesome, its something I'd like to do in real life...

Oh wait! When I come back to real life, I realize the primary problem: death. In my fantasy, I could control my bike and other cars so that I could never be killed. But back in the real world, the constraints placed on make it far less attractive -- to the point that I'll probably not do it -- simply because I prefer life to that fantasy. Much as I prefer my relationship to some silly 5 second thought I might have.

He might find it mildly attractive, but when it comes down to the real world.. the constraints of loving you and wanting to keep you to himself override that fantasy attraction, no matter how strong it was when seperated from the real-world considerations.

Thank you folks for all your thoughtful responses, this has been much more illuminating that I had guessed!

I'm wondering if this dual thought process is the fundamental reason why women tend to find porn upsetting:
That a guy looks at it, can actually wonder what it'd be like, and then put it away and say it is completely meaningless to them, but a women, when she wonders what something is like, is much more likely to actually give it a whirl (edited to add: ), and extrapolates that a man would be the same way.

My SO wondering what some other woman would be like sexually would be what actually gets my panties in a wad about porn.

If I get to the point where I spend significant amounts of time imagining what something would be like, well, I have to tell you I'm likely to try to find out. Whether it's sexual or not (except for that unassisted flying fantasy). :lol: . Maybe that's why I'm not really into porn (and perhaps for other women as well), because it's not gonna happen, so it's kinda a waste of time (with a few exceptions, *blush*).

If for instance I start subscribing to a travel magazine (because I love travel even though I can't afford it), if I keep reading those articles and looking at those glorious pictures, chances are I'm going to find a way to do some kind of travel.

Yes.

I wrote out a whole reply but really it said what you said. No sense repeating.. so -- Yes. :)

Sultana, this is exactly what I am talking about... I have the same attitude as you. For me, I love to dream/fantasize about things that I *want* to do... and I am thrilled when they come true. I try to not fantasize about things that can never come true, because then I get very frustrated and feel like I don't have any power in my life. This happens both sexually and in other arenas. I wonder if this is really a gender thing, as you say, or if it's a personality thing? Let's collect more data and find out... :D

To take some examples from the board so far: when I read about places or people, fiction or not, I want to experience them. Yes, even Harry Potter for god's sake... if it was actually possible to attend a wizarding school, I would go in an instant. :D I remember reading a book when I was young about a witch's academy where people learned to fly around on brooms, and I begged my dad to let me try to fly around (I was really young!). In the end he took such pity on me that he would lift me up on a broom and whoosh me around in the air. Which was fun, but it wasn't quite real enough to satisfy me.

Or, take Moby Dick... which was my favorite novel as an English major. I was dying to spend a semester at sea after reading that book, and actively looked for opportunities to do so. Unfortunately, there were no opportunities offered by my university, so I disliked that reality as well. It wasn't enough to just read the book and dream.. I wanted to make it happen. I fantasized about going to Iceland for a year after college; I made it happen, regardless of the reality that I had to leave a job I had trained 5 years to do and invested thousands of dollars in. I fantasized about backpacking around Europe; I pursued it every day, made plans, nailed every detail, until it happened. In fact, I have always fantasized about traveling; as a result, I have chosen a job that would allow me to do so (becoming an anthropologist, most recently allowing me a job where I spent 7 weeks living in a rural African village). On a sexual note, I fantasized about losing my virginity before marriage (I had been raised to NOT dream about those things)... it happened less than a week after I made that decision, and continues to happen. :lol: Thus I only really watch porn that I wouldn't mind participating in, in real life... and I do watch a goodly amount of porn. :)

So all I'm saying is, if I dream or fantasize or whatever about something, and if there's even the smallest chance it could happen, I WILL FIND A WAY! And I have a hard time understanding why anyone would get a hard-on (literally) :lol: about something that they don't *actually* want to happen. That's all... just trying to understand the whole phenomenon.

Random thought: so guys, if you are turned on by anal sex porn, would you be turned off by it in real life? :lol: Riiiiiiight...

Btw, let it be noted that once again, I agree with everything Ustwo has said on this thread so far. :eek: :D

Yes. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Fair 'nuff, not a huge bubble really. But what about other opinions here?

Hubby would be totally fine with it. He HAS been fine with it and enjoyed it. But we've talked about it. We've talked about other things too though and there are some things that I know he'd feel uncomfortable about me doing (ie. having sex for money - I've been offered this) because of the type of girl that is normally portrayed as engaging in this type of behavior.

He wants a sex kitten but not a whore to be the girl he's with. I think some guys think that the type of girl they're with reflects on them as to what type of guy they are. A guy who can't get anything but a whore is probably considered more desperate while one who's only got a lively sexy girl is something else.

I hope you can talk more with your guy and find out new things that he WOULD enjoy. Good luck and have fun.

Raeanna reminded me of a point I didn't make clear earlier: of course you should talk to your partner about engaging in any kind of out-of-relationship activity *before* it happens. Communication is key!!

The bit about reflection coming back upon the guy, well I believe that is atleast a little true. I know it is in my case.

Well, in fantasies, I have a bigger cock and weigh 60 pounds less.

Fantasies <> reality. Oil <> water.

Basically, you shouldn't try and make someone's fantasy a reality unless you're certain they want it to become real. People aren't always ready to deal with that concept, as fantasies are like TV shows...you can turn them on and turn them off, and not have to deal with any underlying issues or aftermath.