Another stupid question of semantics...
 

Inspired by the "things to never say to your SO" thread...

It was brought up that saying "x is stupid" is somehow akin to saying "you are stupid" to an SO. I find this totally fallacious and have no idea where the idea came from. In my opinion, this is bullshit, nonsensical and illogical/irrational. It's been my experience that those who insist such a correlation exists are merely emotionally fragile/immature people who take personally some things that are not personal attacks.

It's stupid (oh no, I said the word!), irrational, and emotionally immature to insist so. Saying that "[something] is stupid", like an idea, is not at all comparable to saying the person is stupid. As with anything, if that's your SO's only response to everything, then that's a specific problem with them, and has little to do with what specific word they've chosen to degrade you- that's a totally different story altogether, and not what we're discussing.

I don't know how this leap of logic got started, but it it's utterly ridiculous- picking a specific word and saying "if you say ______ is stupid, you're saying i'm stupid" is nonsense of the highest order. Again, i'm not talking about people who seem to use it as their only answer to everything, or for those who use it abusively (and lots of words can be used to cut people down, abusively).

So what's the beef, people? Who thinks "That's stupid" is an insult to the person, calling them stupid, even though the comment isn't "you are stupid"? And what is your general take on the whole thing, anyway?

Some people feel that an idea, belief, community, etc represents them directly, so if you say that X is stupid they regard it as a personal attack.

Since I'm in the process of looking deeply at belief systems I recall reading this someplace but cannot recall just what link it was that I found that explained this very succinctly. I'll have to try to find it again.

I think calling something stupid is a way of announcing bluntly what you think of an idea, show, concept or belief. It doesn't mean that the person is stupid, since they probably think it's stupid that you think what they like is stupid. -- Did that sentence even make sense?? However, people are very defensive about things they like and enjoy so naturally they will take "That's Stupid" as a personal attack, especially if it's something they feel strongly about. I know that if someone says "DJ'ing is stupid" I'd get a little fussy over it, but I would more than likely just try to get to the reason why they think something is stupid.

The bottom line is that if you look at anything at it's very simple core, everything can be considered stupid. This argument rears it's head most often in the religious, musical and athletic realms. You can call one sport stupid by saying "Who wants to throw a ball in a round circle? That's stupid". You can then apply that same argument to anything because of the simplicity implied. More often than not I think the term "That's Stupid" is used more in a sense of masking the non-understanding of the subject being talked about.

Ok so I guess I need to answer the OP question instead of rambling.. NO saying something is stupid is not calling the actual person stupid; <i>unless</i> the person refuses to see the other side of the coin and just says they are right "just because". That's when "That's stupid" applies to the person also.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I think it really depends on what exactly you're referring to as stupid, even if it's not directly related to the person you're talking to. If somebody exposes to you a very personal belief of theirs and you say that what they think is stupid, then it is like you're calling them stupid...because their thoughts are part of them...right?

I guess you know what I voted.

Also what I was thinking. Furthermore, feelings aren't meant to be logical. That's why they're feelings.

I agree as well.

Another thought I would add. When I have experienced someone saying "that's stupid," it's usually the only thing they say. I'm sure most of us have experienced that. I'm also sure we've all heard "I dunno, it just is" when we ask for an explanation.

It's easy to be offended if I've taken the time to explain a thought or idea and all someone has to say is "that's stupid."

It would be like me saying "this poll is stupid" without saying why.

-Tamerlain

If I say an idea is stupid, thats exactly what I meant. It has nothing to do with the person that came up with the idea. I have plenty of stupid and smart ideas, yet still consider myself somewhat intelligent. Either way, I feel that people who think Im calling them stupid are trying way too hard to find "deeper meaning" in what I think.

That's exactly how I feel. If I'm talking to a guy, I will say something is stupid. If I am talking to a female however, I avoid that word like the plague.

The PLAGUE!

Honestly, if you can't think of something more productive to say, don't call something "stupid." That's what you say when you're in fifth grade and someone says something you don't like. If I was having a conversation with someone and they said "But that's stupid!" I would probably not want to talk to them much. Intelligent people can come up with better responses than that if they don't like something.

That being said, I PERSONALLY equate saying "that's stupid" to "you're stupid" because I was once in a relationship where the guy said everything I wanted to do or liked to do was "stupid." I mean, if you hear that word applied to everything you want to do, eventually it starts sounding like everything that comes out of your mouth is stupid, which would equate to you being stupid.

Martel has said things were "stupid" on occasion to me, which I didn't take offense at because he goes on to explain WHY he said that. It's not like I was like "I like the Food Network" and he went "That's stupid *pout*." It was generally when I was acting foolish or emotional and he said it to get me out of the frame of mind I was in.

My thoughts are pretty much a combination of what snowyowl, sage and little tippler said.

It depends on what you're calling stupid, how, and how often you're doing it.

If you're joking around or talking about something not serious, then the effect is going to be different to if you're serious, or you're saying it all the time. And yes, feelings are irrational.

And as your mother always said, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it :P well...constructive anyway.

I think the word "stupid" is a loaded word for many people, so for the most part, it's best to just not use it.

I rarely ever use it, except with the people i'm close to and who understand where i'm coming from when i do say it, aka. those people who i know exactly how they will react to it...

Although, if i disagree with something... i think there are much more eloquent words to use than 'stupid.' I usually just say ... "i don't agree with you on that... for (insert reason here)" And that typically comes off nicely but i still get my point across.

but hehe, it's been a long time since someone's said "that's stupid" to me :) But i wouldn't really care, but i would ask for a reason as to Why they thought something i was saying was stupid.

Also... it's not so much the words that we use... it's the intent that we use them with.

sweetpea

But if you called this poll stupid, no matter how much better you could have explained yourself and no matter how much it might insult Analog that you said it in such a rude way I would certainly never think that you were saying that Analog is stupid. You were just saying the poll is stupid.

How about some analogies:
- You draw a picture and your SO comes by look and inconsideratly says, "that sucks".
Will you be upset at your SO? Probably
Will you be justified for being upset? Probably
Is your SO saying that you suck or the drawing sucks

- What id you come up with a joke and tell it to your SO and your SO says, "that's dumb"
Is your SO saying that you are dumb or that the joke is dumb?

- You attempt to make dinner and your SO tastes it and says "this is really bad"
Is your SO saying that you are bad or that the food is bad?

I think that blade02 is correct but I would say it this way:
I feel that people who think I'm calling them stupid, may have gotten upset (rightfully) becuase of what I said are trying way too hard to find "deeper meaning" in what I think.


I should add that it is definately not nice to say these things, but that was not the question.

I answered: saying "it's stupid" is not calling them stupid, but I'm with Sage on this. Isn't there something more useful and constructive you could say? You really should be questioning yourself on why it's so important to call something stupid in the first place.

You might reserve your right to react in that simple and meaningless way, but I also reserve my right to see it as a meaningless reaction.

This is akin to a similar thread you had where you wanted to redefine what love means to people. Words have their meanings as we use them, and they are not necessarily their semantic (dictionary) definition. It's a definite skill to find out what a word CONNOTES to other people, and "that's stupid" implies "you're stupid" to a lot of males and females, even if this poll shows the opposite. The most mature option, I believe, is not to bemoan how ridiculous it is that people feel this way, but to become aware of how people will WRONGLY interpret what you've said and avoid saying things that can be misinterpreted. Granted, people will always misinterpret you, but you can minimize it by avoiding phrases, especially cliche ones like "I love you" or "that's stupid."

I agree with nearly everything except for the use of the word "WRONGLY ". I would instead choose to use the word "DIFFERENTLY", although yes, sometimes people will flat out interpret things wrongly.

I think I misused the word wrongly at the end. :rolleyes: :lol: How about "incorrectly"?

Saying something is stupid is a waste of time. Say why it might not makes sense to you clearly and calmly, or say nothing at all.

This is kind of how I feel about the subject. When you come out with a "X is stupid", If X is something that I do, my reasoning for doing something or something that I care about, what does that say about me? If I believe something for a stupid reason, or believe in something stupid or do stupid things for any reason at all doesn't that say something about me? I would say it certainly does and in a negative way. I fail to see how it can not be an insult in this sort of a fashion. I don't think "X is stupid" always translates this way, but definitely can.

I think Hektore answers your question perfectly:

I also think JinnKai has given the best response so far. Certain words have certain connotations -- rightly or wrongly -- and no matter what this poll shows, it won't change that fact. We're better off being aware of how certain words affect people rather than debating why they shouldn't.

-Tamerlain

I agree with you that words have connotations, and such connotations are important in the use of a word or phrase. In this case what we're arguing, precisely, is why some people give "that's stupid" the connotation of "you're stupid". It's not at all in the literal meaning or of the phrase, it's a connotation that some people have artificially created to follow. Also, is the matter of semantic use of the word/phrase. Semantics are driven by the context, and context is of utmost importance when discussing the implications of words. People's personal connotations aside, there is no implied "you" when saying "that's stupid".

Personally created and held connotation is the only thing that turns "that's stupid" into "you're stupid", and is 1. not universally accepted as the connotation of the phrase, and 2. not the responsibility of the speaker to attempt the monumental task of considering every possible connotation that anyone could randomly think up for any word at any time.

Just because some emotionally fragile people who take everything as a personal attack use bad logic and irrational thoughts to create a connotation for a word or phrase other than it's intended and implied use, does not mean their appraisal of the word/phrase is accurate in any way. It just makes them people who make up new meanings/connotations for words for no reason except to fit their emotional instability.

Note, again, that this is NOT accounting for those who use the term for almost everything, those who call everything under the sun "stupid". These are personality pathologies having nothing to do with the word, but the person stuck on using it.

Just for the record, I don't often use the phrase "that's stupid"- I hardly use it at all, in fact. I personally use other forms of disapproving speech that are not quite so harsh, unless it's unavoidable, but I still maintain my stance on the use of such a phrase, for those who do use it.

While I agree that it is sometimes better to simply forego using those words that could cause an issue of misinterpretation, I would also like to note that there comes a time where one must draw the line and not pander to the emotionally-driven linguistic eccentricities of a minority, letting them bastardize the language to their own ends. Sometimes you just have to say, "no, it does NOT mean that, you've created that meaning for yourself, and no amount of whining and bitching at me will MAKE it mean that."