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Who are the classic France haters?
Didn't quite know where to put this one... this place seems appropriate.
Me and a few of the boys were discussing this over poker the other night whilst half-cut, and we couldn't quite work out who hates the french the most (a little TIC). We came up with these options: 1. The English - hated them first, so to speak. But then again that is long ago and they have been allies for a long time. Question: Do the English really hate anyone or is it all just some sort of "rivarly between gentlemen"? 2. The Germans - created a nation state based on hating France and invaded France several times, sometimes even purely for the sake of doing so. Have however recently been seen being very friendly towards the French. Question: Genuine change or Plan B? 3. The Americans - currently most vocal France haters, but still fairly new in the hating France business. Owe their nation to the French. Question: Do they even know what France is? 4. The French themselves - reelected Jacques Chirac with 82%. Question redundant. |
Clearly it's the English.
We've hated the French for a thousand years or more. |
I think the fact that so many Americans hate the french is some kind of funny.
The Germans and English have at least fought many wars against them. The Americans have not, their hate seem to be more of the "we want to hate them too" side. Pointless but amusing. |
Is there a nation that doesn't hate the French?
(besides Iraq's last government) Though to answer I think the French themselves seems the best answer. |
I find it interesting that within France, you also have Parisians vs. the rest of the Country.
Go Figure. Anyway, I went with the English. That's a long, deep divide. |
I had to go with Germans. Everyone else talks about hating France, but only Germany has actually done anything about it.
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Of course we rub in WWII in their face every chance we get, but it's been a two way street. To say we're just trying to have someone to dislike it's not giving the French their half of the credit. |
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Also, why are there so many trees on the Champs Elysees? ... ... ... Because Germans love marching in the shade! *rimshot* |
oh, the English did something about it. They took over about the same percent at the Germans did (do recall that Vichy was still a state unto it's own), and even claimed the royal crown. They put down Napoleon, raided the countryside every summer for the Hundred Year's war... I'll quote some choice Henry the Fifth, because no greater work of theater has been produced to make English patriotism seem so right, so heroic, and just downright godly.
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I'll go with the British as the "classic" French haters, they've been at it longer than anyone else.
Americans are more like "modern" French haters or even French haters "lite". I think at some subconcious level, Americans are happy that there is another country out there that the rest of the world dislikes. |
I've never been to France, but I do like them as far as what they've done for America as a country. They helped us win our independence and donated the statue of liberty. I picked the English as classic French haters.
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We paid France back for them helping us by helping them get their country back :D
I'll say the Americans NOW, but historically, the English. I think the thing with Americans has to to with the long-standing stories about how much the French hate Americans, so why should they get any love back? |
This is a fun thread, being both English and German i find it ever so hard to decide... throwing in a French Surname due to french blood of yester year it throws me into a quandary. After much thought however, the English seem to be reif with contempt for their fellow neighbours and this has built up over too many years to leave sleeping dogs lie. So they must be the classic haters. The Germans do not hate, they may try but underneath it all they know that to hate ultimately means failure, which is something they fear (hate) more than the French.
*just a side note, i'm a converted. I like lots of French people, very nice people and you should travel down to one of their beaches, WOW!! Now there's some nice ladies to be seen. |
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then again, really any talk of nationality is a little anachronistic. But i think the way the story of the 100 year's war gets retold by Shakespeare, and is used to help produce the rivalry that peaks in the Napoleonic wars... That, i think makes this rivalry the classic one. That, and i'm a student of this era, and not of Franco-Germanic relations. Go figure. |
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During a dispute with the King of France their land was "revolked". This was illegal in the French system, and England was more powerful than France at the time so had no military means of supporting it. So war was on. |
The English, duh. Followed closely by the Republicans.
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Ever wonder where giving someone the finger came from? Ask any Englishman. |
I had to say the English as well. I immediately thought of the 100 years war; it only seemed fitting.
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seaver, the issue isn't just the loss of Guienne...though you're right that that's the issue that touches it all off. Edward the 3rd decided to address that matter by claiming kingship. The problem is that his claim goes through a woman, which isn't allowed under french law at the time. Yes, Phillip the 4th has a shaky claim to the throne too, but it was technically legal. Edward had not made the claim to the throne previously, did not contest it in a timely fashion...the Capatian dynasty had no legal heirs, and that includes Edward the 3rd. There's a reason Phillip the 4th is the start of the Valois line...he's not a claimant to the Capatian line, but a next best thing thrown in to the throne by his peers.
That's why i say the English knew the claim wasn't really valid. It was an excuse to take out anger over the loss of territory...but in the end, it was the English who lacked the military capability to enforce the claim...not the house of Valois. I really don't mean to quibble, but i think my interpretation of this history is at least reasonable. |
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But I will admit my knowledge on this period isn't my strong suit. |
Well, New Zealand are still the only country to have had a terrorist act committed by France on their soil.
In 1985, French Secret Service bombed a Greenpeace boat, the Rainbow Warrior, in Auckland harbour. I don't think New Zealanders will ever forgive France for that one. |
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And that was the ONLY terrorist act committed by the French outside of France?Not questioning you so much as thinking they must have done something else somewhere else. |
Perhaps that was the only one for which they were caught. I can't think of any others outside of war-time, and if you consider war-time, what does and doesnt count as terrorism becomes tenuous...
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I was going to start a 'classic New Zealand' haters but there was only 20 options.
Boom boom. |
ah well, you always hate what you envy :p :icare:
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It doesn't matter what country they're from. Intolerant, ignorant bigots tend to be the classic haters.
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gotta go with the english... so much history involved.
i don't think Americans really hate the french, i would classify it as a mixture of bafflement/annoyance/amusement in equal parts. we can't sustain a long enough attention span to get any kind of hate going. |
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Its funny because its true. |
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I didn't see a choice for "soap, deodorant, and ladies' razor manufacturers."
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You forgot Poland.
But the English only hate them cause it is land they lost during the past 1000 years. The Germans hate them cause, wel they hate anyone. And since both are bidding for most hated country/people in the world they are in a deadly duel for top spot. As for the Americans they should keep themselves busy with the idea that they are about to dislodge the top 2 for their topspot of most hated people (I kid). And there are so many more nations that have a grudge against the French. A few countries in Afrika as well as in Europe. Though the English have the longest grudge match against them the Germans had probably just as many bouts with them. The Franch ruled over vast pieces of real estate when Napoleon was there, so make a longer list or stop trying. |
I went with the Britons, seeing the centuries of bickering, but.........
Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?.... Because the germans like to march in the shade :) |
The French Aristocracy under William the Conquerer (Norman =(Viking Ancestry )) took over England and remained there until present day. A short while later the Norman Aristocracy in rule of England turned around and invaded France, only leaving when French forces under Joan De'Arc forced them out. Who then turned over Joan to the "English".
There's all kinds of neat tidbits remaining from these affairs, e.g. the saxon / norman divide of the english language (piss/shit/fuck v urinate/defecate/copulate) So I imagine you would be forced to say that yes, the French actually hate themselves more than anybody else has a right to. Especially considering the attitudes of some of the French journalists in Iraq re: Chiraq and Saddam. It's all the same. |
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Might be raising a slightly deceased thread, but i can't resist a chance to chime in with my English anti-french ideals.
The English hate the french, the french hate the English, plain and simple, it's always been the way. Yeh we may have pretended to be friends here and there, but we're still better, and they know it :p |
How about the Algerians, or any of the other Countries they invaded and attempted to colonize (i.e. their part of the Congo, the original inhabitants of Quebec/Louisiana, etc.)?
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Is the like Quebeceres(?) vs. the rest of Canada? |
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There's a saying that goes "We love France, but we hate the French." France is still the most popular country in the world, in terms of number of tourists...
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The english, there is way more history there.
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Canada is totally different from Quebec; the culture, the language, the behaviour.. So I think peeps from Quebec are sort of estranged from the "USA junior" type of Canadians living outside of Quebec... Parisians(and not all), mostly the rich, anal, high class ones have some sort of disdain from the rest, especially non urban areas. But then again, its like New Yorkers vs. what they consider Rednecks. |
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Best thread ever...
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I went with the English, cause NZ wasn't an option, but the American's are probably the best at it. Sure, the English and Germans beat them up, but the Americans took every reference to their country and replaced it with the word Freedom. Hatred.
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It's Trafalgar Day today!
So, I think the English are the classicist French haters, while the Germans are the romantic French haters, the Americans the post-colonial and the French as the... uh, deconstructionalist? *shrugs* |
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The rest of the country hates Toronto, but Toronto loves everyone. We just want to go out for dinner at a nice restaurant. And no, Red Lobster is not a nice restaurant. |
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French Fries originate in Belgium.... silly Americans. :lol:
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I always found it ironic how much the US has hated the french since WWII. The french pretty well handed the US their independance in the 1770's plus the statue of liberty and other goodies.
France had been fighting off invaders for hundreds of years, so what if they couldn't defeat germany in WWII. |
The US has hated France since WW2? That's news to me. I don't hate anybody.
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Other than my wife wanting to go there, (for what reason I don't know - and she can't really explain other than to say it seems like a good thing to do), why should I ever think about France. They are not a military power, not an economic power, not a cultural power, and you can get better wine in California. I think most Americans are indifferent towards France. I suppose indifference could be worse than hatered because they are not even worth an emotional investment. |
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Anyway. I'd have to go with the English as the classic French haters. They've fought countless wars with each other, with the balance of power tilting back and fourth over the centuries. They are true historical rivals. The US has never fought France, and has been their allies in at least 3 major conflicts. However, both the French and the Americans tend to pride themselves with being the founders of the modern democratic state, which is a source of conflict. Me, being a Norwegian dislike both France and the US (actually, we dislike everyone larger than us, which is actually most countries in the world), but not nearly as much as hate Sweden. Darn Swedes :p |
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whithering away like an unharvested grape on the vine. But then again, I don't really think about France. |
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Break it up into periods of history. Middle ages? England, without a doubt, especially since there was no Germany--100 years war, anyone?. Imperial ages up through WW2? Germans, without a doubt--Franco-Prussian war? World War 1? The Germans hated France for a long time, they felt like France was laughing at them behind their backs. Now? Americans, for stupid reasons. I mean, it's OK to make fun of them sometimes, but seriously thinking the French suck? Ignorant and immature. Most of the people saying things like that are the same people that have never been out of the state, much less the country.
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Economically, they are the largest foreign investor in the USA. Culture, surely you jest. France has nothing but a cultural history. The USA has McDonalds. |
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Back to the issue of French and the US culture: France and the US have shared quite a bit, too. Academic postmodernism would have been unthinkable without either the American academy or all those French intellectuals hanging out at SUNY-Whatever and UC-Whatnot. So, for about 20 years, there was a certain convergence of French and American culture at the level of philosophy. Philosophy isn't everything, but it's not nothing either. |
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Just to keep it in perspective. |
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What makes France's culture better? :hmm: If I had to pick a culture to live in as an average person I prefer many of the native American cultures to western European cultures. :thumbsup: |
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What do the Eiffel Tower, the Arc de Triomphe, the Notre Dame cathedral, Les Miserables, Madame Bovary, 20000 Leagues Under the Sea, and champagne have in common? Their creators are all long dead, and yet the French still want to take credit for them. |
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