Men are better than women at being cops
 

So sez Ann Coulter. Could she be right?


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/a...20050317.shtml

My wife would kick Anne Coulter's ass if she saw that. And any other male cop that was dumb enough to agree.

/lives with police recruit....
//no, I don't get to play with the handcuffs....

Someone tell Ann to STFU already.

That "inferior" female officer was 52 escorting a strong young male who was uncuffed.

This was a problem of a retarded Sherrif or DA, not of sexual prowess.

Male or female, if a guard is not capable of defending themselves then they shouldn't be serving... or at very least not carrying a gun. What if the defendant had overpowered an armed elderly male guard? Same result, opposite gender.

The problem was an underfunded court system that forced that female cop to be in close proximity to this guy and not remove her gun.

At best, Coulter's evidence indicates that small, older cops shoulldn't be escorting uncuffed large men by themselves. Change her sex wouldn't have prevented this. Having the suspect cuffed and a second guard present would have.

I've seen my SO--5' 9" and 135 lbs.--accidentally break a man's wrist in Tae Kwon Do class, and throw 200 lb. men around.

Sex is irrelevant. Not following proper prodedures--keeping a prisoner accused of a violent felony cuffed and being escorted by two guards--is what caused this.

huh??

Are you suggesting that only women would take that job because of it's low pay?

BTW....the problem was that an evil SOB took advantage of another human being and mercilessly killed other human beings because he could. Don't blame the GA taxpayers

He said 'THAT' female cop, not 'A' female cop.

Just sayin', ya knows?

I have NO idea how you pulled that out of what I typed.

I'll blame the GA courty system that underfunded that court so that there weren't enough deputies there to safely transport prisoners.

Sure, but where does this underfunding thing come in?

How do you know there weren't? Do you know what the normal procedures are? Don't be so quick to make it political and say they were underfunded. That's knee jerk thinking remincent of A nameless other. But seriously, I think it may have been a lapse in procedure

Underfunding.

Less deputies on duty.
Less deputies means not all necessary jobs are filled.
-Someone had to escort this guy. There weren't enough deputies to escort him and keep proper security at the same time. This resulted in a deputy, with a gun, in reaching distance of a prisoner.
-Security measures that keep an armed deputy at least ten feet from any prisoner are absolute rules basically everywhere else in the country.

This is the real tragety.

For the article: my wife has her 4th dregrre black belt along with a class of 23 other women in tae kwando (thanks to West Coast Martial Arts fopr an excelent "womens self defence class"). No "200-pound former linebacker" could have wrestled anything from my wife but an ass kicking. The problem here is not with gender, but with the inferior training this woman had to work with. My mother is getting towards that age, and she can still raise hell. With the right training, my mother could easily kill someone, even a "200-pound former linebacker". I'm pretty sure the whole thing was Ann Coulter's fault. Listening to her brings out some primal rage in most reasonable people, and it's possible that Brian Nichols was watching oir listening to Ann Coulter before he went on this terrible killing rampage.

After the incident, interviews with people who worked at the courthouse and others made plenty of comments about security at the courthouses being very low because of underfunding by the state.

Yes, getting back to the subject.
Ann is an evil skank.

That should've never happened but it did, and they need to work on making their system stronger now. Just imagine how bad it's getting if they're killing in courtrooms now. There is a lot that needs to be done.

The underfunding argument is a cop out. More money would not have guarenteed a male escort. That's silly. I think the problem was procedural: Female deputies shopuld not escort male prsioners. But in saying that, one runs the risk of being called sexist.

Not arguing there should have been a male escort.

There should have been an unarmed escort leading him and an armed escort who has to maintain a minimum of 10 feet away.

If they had that this whole thing wouldn't have happened.

Nichols wouldn't have had a gun to grab, and if he made any trouble there's a distant deputy ready to take him down.
More money would have given them that.

yet one more reason to consider ann coulter an example of rampant insanity

I don't think its not so much the question about underfunding, it's about the early warning signs they had on this guy and the lack of tactics and pre-planning which created this incident. I know a lot of officers, both male and female, who due to their complacency, are dangerous not only to themselves but to others. Nichols had been found with shanks hidden in his shoes last week...must have forgot about that one...

Another problem I see is at the agency decision making level and whoever diceided it was ok for this obvious difference in size and gender. Tactics and proactive thinking aside, there are undeniable differences here, I'm thinking age and size being the major factors. Even if the deputy had training and attitude, I doubt this would have turned out any other way. Terrible way to learn a hard lesson.

Look, Ann "Raving Lunatic" Coulter has also suggested that we should invade every Muslim country in order to forcibly convert everyone to Christianity and wrote a book defending Joseph McCarthy.

She's either insane or just discovered that she can make bucketloads by being as crazy-out-there-controversial as possible.

So let's not take anything she has ever said, ever, in her whole life, seriously.

Can we deport Ann yet? I'm sure China would appreciate her sense of humor.

Two things that drive the left up the wall:

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/ncbiker/gun.jpg[/IMG]


:lol: :p

Not many people outside of freerepublic and the Limbaugh crowd would shed a tear to hear she has a terminal spinal tumor.

Is that crossing the line here? Is it ok to openly wish for her painful death?

What's that NCB? Ann and cheap housing?

I'm not saying that men are necessarily better cops than women but of course there are physical differences, that's why we have separate men and women sports. In general the women would not be able to compete with men, it's a matter of size and strength.

In this case, this guy would have probably had no problem overpowering a small 52 year old out of shape man just as easily.

If there is no difference between the physical capabilities of the sexes, why is domestic abuse any different from assault and battery? I don't know if Coulter is right about this specific case, but I know I would feel better if there was a male police officer present. I remember around 5 years (maybe longer) there was a show on 20/20 about the difference between the sexes. In Philadelphia (IIRC, it's been awhile) the fire department was not getting enough female firefighters. Why? Because one of the requirements was the ability to lift 150lbs over your shoulder. So what did they do? Changed that to the ability to drag the same weight. They also changed procedure so that instead of carrying people out of a fire, they would be DRAGGED.

Why is the idea that men in general are better at doing certain physically intensive tasks so offensive to the left?

OK.

First off, one has to consider that there is CONSIDERABLE physical and morphological difference between the sexes. The average Male outweighs the average Female by something around 40%, has 25% more skeletal muscle-mass, and that mass is comprised of "fast-jerk" muscles, designed to deliver explosive power over a short period. Females have mostly "slow jerk" muscles which deliver much less force, but much more consistantly and for much longer periods. This is why Females are better shots than Males ( on average ) with firearms, and why they able to compete "straight across" with male skiiers, snowboarders, etc etc. However, the result of the disparity in weight, muscle-mass, and muscle type means that the average Male is about 70% stronger than the average Female.

However, this fact imposes certain realities: namely that the AVERAGE Female can be more-or-less demolished by the AVERAGE Male without too much trouble on the Male's part. Martial Arts training can help mitigate ( or even eliminate ) this disparity; I wouldn't want to tackle Michelle Krasnoo or Laura Truley with anything short of a 12-bore. However, it must be remembered that most "martial arts" in the US today are focused much more on the "art" than the "martial" part. The training takes place in a tightly controlled environment, and the "victim" always knows that they're going to be attacked, and usually knows what form the attack will take; ergo, they are able to effectively defend against it. This handicaps practicioners of both sexes.

This is where firearms come into the picture. Of my dozen-ish students whom I have taught to shoot, only one has been Male. The rest have been Females who recognized the above facts and wished to be able to effectively defend themselves NOW, without going through the years of training it takes to fight like Laura Truley.

In a circumstance like this, the use of a Female deputy, ESPECIALLY by herself, was nothing short of madness. This is not to say that Females don't make good cops; if someone's a good cop they're a good cop. However, the idea that someone who was physically incapable of restraining a prisoner and RETAINING HER WEAPON ( something else I teach all my students and practice rigorously ) would be gaurding someone like this is pure, rank insanity.

Has anybody encountered Joseph Wambaugh's reverse opinion that female cops are better than male cops?

Apparently he spoke before the LA city council in 1992 in favor of preferential hiring of female cops, saying they were superior to male cops. The council agreed, and hired more female cops.

Here's an editorial in the Seattle-Post Intelligencer from March 25:
(no link available)

So when more female cops are hired, and more shootings of citizens by female cops happen, are the Liberals going to not bitch and moan about those shootings, since they were the result of putting more women with guns out there?

Coulter's article says that shootings go up when there are more female cops out there. That makes some sense intellectually, since there are less options in the use of non-lethal force for a female cop than a male cop. Anybody care to rebut the studies she mentioned?

Why not attack her message instead of attacking her personally? That makes it at least appear that there's a counter-Coulter argument, instead of simple ad-homs due to the moral bankruptcy and indefensibility of one's position.

Female police officers don't have to fall into the "average" ability or body type, as they can go through rigerous training in order to level the playing field.

Police offficers train in combat, not art. My wife trains in combat, not art. If you want art, there's plenty of Tai Chi to go around. Have you ever seen a 21 year old, thin woman disable 4 200+ pound men in under 30 seconds? I have. My wife even knows what moisturizers are good for the cracking and dryness that comes from repeated punching. God I love her.

Anyone who is properly trained (not 14 weeks at police academy, but several years in military combat training specificlly dealing with urban combat and hand to hand, weapons training, etc.), man or woman, could have dealt with that situation with relative ease. The average man cannot overpower a properly trained police officer.

Like I said before:
Baring a physical disability of some kind, this woman could have been trained to deal with this. The inferior training is to blame.

I would just like to point out, to those who dont know it, she wasnt armed....she had followed procedure and locked the gun away in a lock box. When he hit her (which he could have easily have done to a man as well) he stole her keys to the box, located it and stole the gun from there. She was not armed while she was transporting him.

Rather hilarious to blame the commentary here as ad hominem attacks when Coulter uses phrases like "Liberals have proffered every possible explanation for this breakdown in security except the giant elephant in the room — who undoubtedly has an eating disorder and would appreciate a little support vis-a-vis her negative body image."

Yeah, Coulters articulate, civilized and serious argumentation deserves a reply worth of all rules of debate.

So, are you saying that the studies she cites are invalid, or that they just don't matter?

I have no opinion about that - to be honest, I didn't even bother to read the whole article. As you might note, my remark really had nothing to do with the subject she was writing about.

OK, I'm happy to bite.

I took a look at the article that Coulter cites to support her assertion that more women results in more accidental shootings of civilians.

My opinion: overall, it is an excellent study, although I disagree with a lot of the statistical analysis (I am a statistician myself) and interpretation.

On the specific question of female officers and accidental shootings of civilians:

The author himself is not convinced of the relationship. He calls it "very preliminary". He does not even cite the relationship in either the abstract or the conclusions of the study. There are two reasons he is not convinced: first, the relationship is based only 24 datapoints. Second, the relationship is NOT statistically significant. The probability that it could have occurred purely by chance is about 9%, which is higher than the standard accepted threshold.

So: my judgment is that these data, while interesting and perhaps suggesting of the need for further study, are of practically no value in and of themselves.

And they are certainly not sufficient to justify a sanctimonious, sarcastic, self-congratulatory editorial in any respectable newspaper.

Here are the two paragraphs:


And here's the analysis table:

I have no idea how to format tables, but that 9.3% in the last line is the probability value of the associated two-tailed t-test.

Ann Coulter, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh Rush Limbaugh Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and hehe - Noah McCullough.

**Hey Sweetheart, would you mind grabbing me a beer - I don't wanna miss this one.

It's moments like this that make me proud to be a republican. Do you realize how silly your reactions to these people make you look.

Willravel, what were 4 200+ pound men doing attacking your wife?

Oh okay - it was an exhibition. What movie was this:

a: Attack me with that knife!!

b: Okay **stabs at "a"

a: No with your right hand!!

b: **stabs at "a"

a: No in an up and down motion!!

b: Okay

a: (after successfully defending him/herself) "See - THAT'S how you defend yourself from a knife attack."

Maybe you have the wrong idea. The teacher/sempi/whatever says to the 4 guys something to the effect of, "What I want you four to do is take down this woman in as litle moves as possible. Use whatever force is necessary." The four men, who were each between camo belt and maybe green belt got up to attack my wife. After the first one was taken down they each got more serious, but they each fell. This was teaching them the same lesson that some people in here might be having trouble with: with the right training, either gender can pose a serious physical threat. She can spar with me (I am a 5th degree in tae kwon do, as well as being moderatly trained in 4 other martial arts, and I'm learning Muay Thai) and sometimes beats the crap out of me. She is what I would call an expert fighter. I would say that she could easily handle an attack from 99.9% of people on the street. The operative word is "could". My wife and I are pacifists, so we wouldn't fight. The ability is there, though.

"But why are you taking martial arts if you're a pacifist?! That doesn't make any sense!!"

To clear this up before someone asks, in order to truely appreciate peace, you have to understand a lack of peace. If someone is a pacifist from birth, they will never have the same appreciation and understanding of peace as someone who understands both violence and peace. It's based in the teachings of the Tao-te-ching from Taoism.

I don't remember anyone suggesting one gender in particular can't pose a serious physical threat, including Ann Coulter. Perhaps Miss Coulter's article would have taken a different, less offensive tone if she had had the benefit of seeing your wife spar in her dojo.... probably not, but you never know. If she had seen this, i'm sure she would feel differently. Yup, i'm conviced, nothing would suit Ann more than a terminal spinal tumor.

BTW, not long ago, in my very own neighborhood two police officers respond to a domestic dispute call. One is male, one is female (the male cop happened to be "the old" friend of a friend). The male police officer walks into the house with the female right behind him. While the male police officer is calming the wife in the situation , the husband grabs a bat and whacks the living shit out of him (sending him to the hospital for weeks). The female police officer, take a wild guess - runs out of the house hops in the cop car and calls for backup on her way back to the station. AND GUESS WHAT? - SHE WASN'T EVEN FIRED.

Just a more practical real life story, to counteract your argument that women are inherantly as capable of being cops because your wife can handle 4 200+ pound people in a dojo.

My point was that the training police officers are given is bullshit. 14 weeks is not enough. Officers should have a ton of training in law, stunt driving, military combat, negotiating, etc. I am saying that if the training my wife and I went through could be given to police officers, stuff like the Atlanta courthouse masacre could probably be avoided.

I'm sorry about that police officer that got beaten, and the woman was wrong for running. What if that woman was given the balls that grow with real combat training? Maybe the male ploce officer would have had some ass-kicking backup.

/bows to our new Uber-Ninja Masters...

I'd rather bow to ninjas then to slow talking southerners. :lol:

I find this very interesting, since your profile says you're 21. I took four years of judo, and three years of Tae Kwon Do, and even though it's well known that Tae Kwon Do advances its practitioners more rapidly than most other martial arts, no one in our entire national organization advanced past third degree by age 21.

I started in Karate when I was 4, and advanced quickly because of the fast paced nature of the school. I transfered to a tae kwan do school when I had gotten by black belt because I found an even more excelerated program at the tae kwan do school. The only reason I am so young at this degree is because of the excelerated programs. I've been told bey several martial artists that my degree is disputable because of those programs, and you're more than welcome to your opinion. Only a few tae kwan do organizations recognise my rank. Outside of those organizations, I could be called an advanced 3rd degree (as my third degree was obtained from ATA, a universally accepted degree). I also understand if you find no reason to take me at my word, as you have no idea who I am. I wouldn't blame you. All I can do is explain myself.

Do yo have any opinions on the article featured on the first page?

Anne is being stupid again.

Dumping all women or all men into the same basket is LAZY THINKING. Some women would be shit cops, some men would also be shit cops.
I used to work at one of the roughest bars in western sydney australia. The woman who ran the place could break up fights far beter than any massive bouncer could ever hope to. She would reduce 6ft thugs in little boys with just a stern word and an ugly glance. She could diffuse these situations because she was a woman. Big burly men would be so weirded out by the prospect of this aggressive 50+ woman yelling at them, that theyd run away.

This is believable, if quite unusual, since you do not claim a 5th degree from the ATA, of which I was a member. I knew some extremely good practitioners who, in 20 years, had not progressed past third degree. I only saw one instructor at all of the meets in which I competed, who had achieved an ATA 5th degree.

Yes, and I have opinions about the replies. As usual, Ann has put forth a reasonably correct statement, and couched it in terms that are guaranteed to piss off the politically correct.

If she had blamed the Bush administration for tax cuts that forced a five-foot grandmother to accept a "dangerous job," the same politically correct faction would have been tripping all over themselves to blame the administration for "forcing an obviously physically inferior woman to guard this brute."

Some people, such as you, disagreed with Ann and presented cogent points in refutation of her article.

Others engaged in name-calling and hate speech. Those people deserve to be ignored, and I did.

1 year to "graduated" black belt, 2 years to second degree, and 3 years to third degree. A total of six years. As I earned by black belt at 10, I was around 16 when I earned my third degre from ATA. I moved to another school after that.

When you say "reasonably correct", are you suggesting that ann was right and women should not be police officers? Politically correct speech aside, are you sure a female police officer can't be trained to handle herself well enough to deal with the average criminal?

No, that would be spinning what was said into something you seem quite ready to argue, but was never proffered. Here's something that more closely restates the post:

In a wrestling match, it is certainly possible for a competitor to defeat someone who is two or three rungs higher in the weight classifications.

However, a wise gambler would tend to bet on the heavier wrestler, especially if the scenario is repeated with different wrestlers on a daily basis. Over time, the gambler's odds of winning are much better that way.

A wise supervisor of deputies would have played the odds as well.

A wise supervisor would have placed two guards for a violent criminal.

And a wise gambler would bet on that scenario over a single large guard.

Ah mahy taaalk sloooow, but mah triggah fingah is faahst... :crazy:

/wonders who would win a hypothetical fight... the fast talking bare-handed Uber-Ninja, or the slow-talking rayed-neck bubba with the submachinegun... ;)

The ninja, obviously. The redneck would be hungover from his Bud breakfast and never even know there was a ninja to shoot.

;)

And your suggestion as to what the proper level of funding should be?

Don't forget to include whom you intend to be footing the bill.

How typical. This quote perfectly demonstrates the reason I lurk. It's been up there for almost a day, with nothing said about it.

However, if someone had said, "a black man wouldn't be able to shoot straight with all of the watermelon juice and fried chicken grease on his hands," there would be a moderator feeding frenzy. Even if there was a :lol: placed next to it. I saw that happen the time Daswig made a derogatory comment about a woman's face.

Bigotry apparently gets a free pass when it's not directed at blacks.

There is an obvious difference between redneck and black, and I don't mean skin color.

If the discussion had involved the stereotype of Gangster Rap instead of Bubba the redneck, I would have said: a gangster rapper wouldn't be able to draw his gun fast enough due to all the gold chains around his neck. Of course, that's not as funny, but it succinctly illustrates the difference between what I said and what you think it means that I said it.

However, I apologize to all the rednecks here and everywhere who were offended.

I may be a city slicker, but I come from American grade A redneck stock. I have zero problems with people using the word "redneck", as a lot of the people that get mad about someone stereotyping them as a redneck say things like 'get-r-done!' and 'you might be a redneck' jokes. You know what? Without a sense of humor, we're no better than the asians. Ha! Just kidding of course (one of my best friends is asian and happens to be the funniest person I know). If you're offended by redneck stereotypes, it might be time to put down your gun and grow a thicker skin. To quote Dennis Miller: "You are part of the human collective, come, join in our reindeer games. You too can be poked fun at....there's the real world, and then there's the joke world. The joke world can get tough. Wear a cup." It might help people if they heald their cards a little closer to the vest. Don't let people know they've rattled you if it hits close to home. If you're bested, go home, sharped your verbal katanna, and get ready for the next match.

One more quote from Dennis Miller: "Relax. The truth is that the human sense of humor tends to be barbaric and it's been that way all along. I'm sure on the eve of the nativity, when the tall magi smacked his head on the crossbeam while entering the stable, Joseph took a second away from pondering who impregnated his wife and laughed his little carpenter ass off."

Also, pick your battles. TFP Politics will give you more battles than you know what to do with. That's a geat part of it's value.

willravel, your my hero, your logic behind this topic is excellent and I agree with everything you have said thus far.

Your Like a Monk :)

^Best compliment I've gotten all week.^

Thanks, Seanland. Being compared to a monk is an espically excelent compliment for me, as I LOVE religion and am a pacifist. Maybe I should become a monk....

I really don't think that anything I would say about the article would contribute much to the discussion, but I can say that the sentences above are the funniest thing she's ever written.

Other than that, are any other states willing to take her so she'll get the hell out of mine and stop trying to run for Congress?

This requires a reply......

Inside this board, there are multiple opinions, as well as personalities. The "Local" debate crew tend to walk a fine line (and are quite good at it) and the moderation staff is left to decide when the line is crossed. We are far from perfect but have , I would hope, managed to keep a tone of respect in here without stifling the debate process. The post(s) in question here are understood by the members involved in the debate to be vieled in Jest, and are therefor relatively harmless, they may in fact add to the debate when considered in context.
Had we considered any of this exchange to be Racist, Bigotted, or disrespectful, We would have addressed it directly (as I am sure most here will attest). We do however, allow for more discretionary moderation inside this forum, as it has proven essential to freedom of debate.

That said.....if the exchanges in here force you into lurk mode, so be it, Politics has never been for the easily offended.

Being somewhat of a redneck myself, I have never taken offense to the term but rather accept it as kind of a funny parody of my family's roots. Redneck does not seem to evoke the kind of anger among us rednecks that other terms do like when you call someone nigger, spick, wap, etc...

It would probably be better if we lighten up instead of looking for ways to be offended.

You know you're a redneck if Jack Daniel's makes your list of "most admired people." Now how could any redneck get upset with that kind of humor. :)

I never said I was offended. I merely pointed out an obvious double standard. Judging from your post above, and especially from your prior posts/actions, you support such a policy.

Manx, to his credit, apologized, even though he disagreed with me.

On the other hand, two years of observation lead me to believe you're likely to ban me for pointing this out.

I wouldn't be the first, either.



.

Sorry, kiddo. No double standard here. It was obviously a joke that you took to be bigoted because it didn't fit into your particluar sense of humor. I know Manx to be a very level headed and intelligent person, and I also know him to be anything but a bigot. Your response was very rude to Manx, and then your second post was very rude and condecending to the moderators. If you are banned it will not be for 'pointing this [bigotry] out', it will be because you are treating Manx and Tecoyah like little kids. They don't deserve that, and you have no right to treat them like that.

If you don't have something constructive to say, simply hit the back button. It might also be nice to perhaps comment on the topic at hand, the female police officer portreied as incompetent by Ann Coulter, instead of going off on a tangent that has no logical end.

Wow.....I must be a childish and powerhungry little sob

It is quite fortunate that I do not require your approval of my style of moderation, otherwise I would be weeping

/Sarcasm Ends

But it would be the first.....If indeed I was ignorant enough to Ban you for expressing your opinion.

Smcgavis:

Tecoyah would never have been made moderator if he went around like a sneaky little imp and banned every moron who spoke their mind and/or expressed an opinion different than his own...if he did there would be no one left to post here. TFP is about posting what you mean and what you feel...it's the way you choose to express yourself that either shows you are a sensitive person, a sarcastic asshole, an insensitive one, immature or mature, etc.

Next time, take a breath and think back to your days of kindergarten...this is not the way to make friends. ;)

Smcgavis:

Also, tecoyah wasn't saying you were offended...TiltedPolitics isn't a place for someone who gets upset easily or feels uncontrollably strong (i.e. to the point of anger or annoyance) about a subject. I stay out of there because I tend to become insultive in subjects such as abortion, gay marriage, religion, etc. There are plenty of other forums and plenty of other threads...stick to the ones that don't spark a debate or argument that could become quite heated...and relax, just chill, be cool...be among friends...

Amnesia620-

Read between the lines, or, as in this case, read the bold letters.

Whole 'nother story going on in the background, something I am not necessarily akin to, just aware of.

Tec's post had nothing to do with "smcgavis", rather, with someone else.

What a great post!

Oh how true you didn't even know you were, though smcgavis was not the root of the issue.

Sometimes it's amazing how astute people can be when they have absolutely no info to go on. You get the super sleuth award for the day! ;)

Oh- and as for the "double standard", it's more difficult to determine if it's really all that bad when you're comparing "rednecks" to "blacks"... black people being the ones that have been slaves and tortured for a good part of our human history, and that spirit of bigotry and hatred still lives on in some people, despite the best efforts of those with brains in their heads.

Exactly what cultural or heritage-based grievances do "rednecks" have with the world? Earnhardt not given a sainthood after he died?

To sum up: it was part of back-and-forth banter, not a random shot. Also, it was obviously not said in anything other than a lighthearted tone. THere is a big difference where intent stands.

Some of the facts are coming across as misconstrued:

• Nichols overpowered the female sheriff's deputy in the holding area as his handcuffs were being removed so that he could change his clothes.
• They struggled for about 3 minutes and he overpowered her, taking her keys and then opening the lock box where her gun was.
• On his way to the courtroom (to kill the judge and others), he randomly took other people hostage. This included another deputy who Nichols successfully disarmed (meaning the guards were armed in this courthouse).

I decided to edit this post. Making myself look like an ass is really irrelevant to this thread's real and actual topic.

Though, nothing ever is as it seems. So, with that in mind, remember: You are not really you, I'm not really Amnesia620, this isn't really the Tilted Forum Project (a.k.a. TFP) and everyone here actually knows what the hell their talking about and never ever make mistakes.

If they actually do, be sure to point it out in BIG, BOLD LETTERS. It reinforces the fact that you're so much better than that person. :) :eek: But wait! :eek: I forgot...that's right...you're not really you.

Yes, in this case, I do know what the hell I am talking about.

Now, if you would back up and calm down, you might see what I was talking about.

Tecoyah's post to smcgavis (which you were responding to) was cryptic and meant to be read differently then you read it. It was a subtle message to an unidentified person based on a series of event you know absoultely nothing about.

I pointed it out so that you wouldn't continue to get up-in-arms and preachy about it since it was obvious that you weren't aware of the underlying message that Tecoyah was trying to send.

Yeah. He's actually fairly well guessed what was going on in the background, which you have no idea about.

I know exactly what is happening in the background. I am the background. You're wrong. (I thought my last post pretty much explained this?)

You missed the big picture, which was fine, but now you've posted that blurb up there and made yourself look like an ass. Congrats. :thumbsup:

No further commentary on that issue will be posted in this thread. Go back to the topic at hand. Don't PM me to ask about it, only PM me if you have an issue with my comments here.

I never know if Ann Coulter is serious or not... but that is satire, isnt it? Are you sure that quote is really her, I think someone is pretending it is as a satire.

Sincerely...Forgive me...I forgot all the " :lol: " 's I meant to place as I posted that late at night. I was actually posting the last part in jest and I can see it didn't come across as that. I meant no offence to anyone.

KMA-628: I was calm. I still am. I sincerely apologize if my post came across wrong.

Analog - Down boy. Jesus, you need a vacation. My intentions were not to offend. I meant no harm.

Both: You've both, equally, succeeded in pouncing upon my words, pointing out a meaning I mistakenly implied, and have succeeded in putting me in my place. I hope you both feel better. Pat yourselves on your backs - you've both succeeded in making sure I will never make this mistake again.

**EDIT**

MOD Note: I said no more talk of this, and I meant it. Especially not rude sarcasm- and especially not directed at me.

- analog.