I knew you'd get a kick out of that one ;)

You know, somehow I understand what you are saying. Americans are a compassionate and a passioned people. So are Canadians. But your administration isn't showing much in terms of patience since the inception of the "with us or against us" slogan to the masses.

Sometimes the U.S just acts, in a split of a second in rebuttal, with such an 'in your face' attitude of condemnation of any sort not to their liking. Good grief. The rest of the world gonna sign on to be led down the garden path by the U.S and be it's honored "allies"?

We are at a defining moment in Canadian history as well the world's and Canada is vying for a global position to take herself into the future and it's betting on the diplomatic, peaceful and respectful reputation in common with the rest of the world. If that means Canada get's screwed by the U.S over trade etc,..because it doesn't comply like a lagdog, then so be it. Maybe 50 years from now the world won't have anything to do with the U.S. Then what?

I think that therein lies the problem.

You're right, Canada and the rest of the world are facing a critical moment in history. Diplomacy is only successful if it's failure can be backed up by force. Ask Neville Chamberlain how well peaceful diplomacy works. Canada is following the ways of "Old Europe", a path that leads only to irrelavency.

Well, truth be told, the European Union is up and coming while the American Empire is in decline. The EU economy is now larger than that of the USA's.

How do you like those apples.

If Canada were to forge closer ties with the EU, so much the better as far as I am concerned. We need to lessen our dependence on trade with Uncle Sam and Europe and Asia are definitely where it is at.

Socially, Canadians think more like Europeans, and Economically, the US has been in trouble for 5 years and showing no signs of changing anytime soon.

Canada should join the EU in fact. Wouldn't that be a kick!!

You shouldn't be asking me how I like them apples, you should be asking the Germans, with their 12.4% unemployment rate and less than 1% growth (down from a robust 1.8% in the first two quaters of '04). You should ask the French with their 9.4% unemployment rate, though their growth rate is at is booming at 2.3%, the largest ROG in years.

What, is your 7% unemployment rate not up to European standards? Perhaps if y'all did join, Canada can take some pointers from France on how to bump up a ROG from 1.7%.

Using the numbers of the currently weakest economies of the E.U. to "prove" to overall economic weakness of the E.U. is akin to pointing out the very flawed economy of, say, California to "prove" an economical weakness of the whole states.

Bottom line mon ami -the EU GDP is greater than that of the USA's.

http://www.euobserver.com/?sid=9&aid=18646

:cool:

NCB -

Good find on the article, it shows the basic flaw in using GDP as an economic indicator.

While the EU GDP might be greater than the GDP of the US, the per-capita GDP would be the more correct number to use for a comparison.

All EU member countries, minus one (Luxemburg) have significantly lower per-capita GDP than the US (Which is #2 in the world). While I couldn't find an overall "per-capita GDP" for the EU, if you were to average all EU member countries, it would fall well below the per-capita GDP of the U.S. (which is an average of the 50 states). LINK

It is a bogus comparison.

Another economic indicator is the rate of inflation. Almost all EU member countries have a higher rate of inflation than the US (stats at the same link as above).

Almost every economic comparison I looked at, comparing the EU with the U.S., puts the U.S. on top (using averages, since there aren't "total" EU numbers yet).

Missing from the euobserver article is how productivity in the EU has far outpaced the US while the average number of hours in the EU has significantly dropped and the average number of hours in the US has consistently increased.

That this fundamental aspect is missing in the study cited in the euobserver tells me the study is essentially nonsense.

A cursory google search brings up this:

NCB, a nation that takes 2-4% of it's unemployed and puts them in the armed forces and jail tends to have a lower unemployment rate. =)

You do realize that, unlike every other western nation, the USA actually has military and jail populations large enough to significantly swing it's employement/unemployment rates?

Canada could drive the unemployed into crime with well-designed social programs and engeneering, and lower our unemployment rate! That sounds like a solution!

Then, we could make a military full of uneducated unemployable people, and send them off to be shot! Not only would those people be removed from the unemployment lines, this would allow us to funnel money into large government contracts, from which our politicians could get jobs and/or campaign contributions, and produce tonnes of goods that are destroyed! It's a perfect Keynsian solution, dig holes and bury the poor in them. . .

( WARNING: hyperbole levels reaching critical! ;-) )

Ayep, Germany and France's economies need some work. Of course, unlike the USA, they don't have a 5%+ annual current account deficit with no end in sight. They are, last I checked, actually running surplusses.

And yet, their economies are in the toilet and our isn't. Go figure

Um. Not even close.

Ok :rolleyes:

wow. such exquisite insight. The preceding is an example of how incomplete statistics can be wielded in either side of an arguement. Also, it shows how an arguement can degenerate into gain-saying when the statistics are borne out to be faulty.

Which stats do you believe are faulty? Also, do you agree or disagree with the article stating that the EU is a good 20 years behind us economically.

Maybe the EU is 20 years behind the US as you say (which is no true). But with the last growth, the EU has the potential to become a even bigger economic power. Whereas the US isolation only leads to one way: down.