Sunni muslims question Iraq vote verocity - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Locke7 · 02-02-2005, 11:56 AM

By SAMEER N. YACO'UB, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq (news - web sites)'s leading Sunni Muslim clerics said Wednesday the country's landmark elections lacked legitimacy because large numbers of Sunnis did not participate in the balloting, which the religious leaders had asked them to boycott.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._re_mi_ea/iraq

Uh, so they are complaining about low sunni voter turnout when earlier they were hoping for low sunni turnout by boycotting the elections. That makes absolutely no sense to me. In fact, it looks like they were trying to get low sunni turnout so they could question the legitimicy afterwards...

ObieX · 02-02-2005, 12:35 PM

If they wanted to be part of the democratic process they should have taken part in the democratic process. *shrugs* oh well, maybe next invasion.

Charlatan · 02-02-2005, 12:56 PM

I have to agree... as messed up as the situation is there... You can't make claims to that it was unfair if you purposefully don't take part...

Mephisto2 · 02-02-2005, 05:21 PM

This is nothing new. As Locke says, once they boycotted the election one only expects them to complain about legitimacy. Everyone knew this was going to happen. The question is whether the Assembly can act in good faith and avoid any anti-Sunni bias.

Mr Mephisto

inkriminator · 02-02-2005, 07:38 PM

I wonder if it's the same clerics who were against elections who are now complaining against it. In either case, supposing some semblence of order comes to Iraq, and democracy becomes part of Iraq's fabric of society, the sunni clerics will realize that voting will be how they can influence things and will hopefully encourage. All the same, I've heard that the Iraqi turnout was very close to the American elections, somewhere around 60%, good for the Iraqis, a little sad for us Americanos

alansmithee · 02-02-2005, 08:09 PM

I'd be interesting to see this tactic catch on in other countries. I think it would be humourous to have parties to see who could get the most people to not vote.

jorgelito · 02-02-2005, 08:10 PM

I think there will still be Sunni representation anyways because of the method of elections: Proportional something or other (sorry, can't remember the exact term).

Also, don't forget, Kurds are Sunni too so I guess it all depends on how you look at it.

Mr. Mephisto, what Locke were you refering too? Could you you rprovide quote for me please? (Just naturally curious) Thank you.

Mojo_PeiPei · 02-02-2005, 08:16 PM

Locke7 Jorge.

Kurds may be Sunni too, but they aren't really incorparated along with the Sunni's. They are autonomous and were targetted pretty heavily by Saddam (A Sunni). I don't think there identity as Sunni Muslims factors in to their identity so much as them being Kurds does.

Seaver · 02-02-2005, 08:42 PM

Sorry but I cant feel sorry for a guy who first says he's going to hit his hand with a hammer, gets plenty of warning of the consiquences, then does it, and the complains.

Sorry to sound like a jackass... but cry more sunni's

jorgelito · 02-02-2005, 08:43 PM

No, no of course. I was just trying to "stir the pot" a bit to illustrate the complexities of it all.

I think there are many permutations and combinations of "interests" - ethnic, religious, tribal etc. I thought it was interesting, that Sunni Arab and Sunni Kurds can be so divided ethnically, but similar religiously.

Likewise remember how complicated things were in Bosnia?

Anyways, the "main" grups are still Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites. If only the UK had properly divided the country all those years ago......

MSD · 02-02-2005, 08:52 PM

If you call for your peoole to boycott an election, you have no right to complain about the legitimacy of that election due to low turnout among your followers. I assumed that this is what would happen, and it did happen exactly like I expected. Maybe they would have gotten more favorable (to them) results if they has encouraged all Sunnis to vote.

meepa · 02-02-2005, 09:11 PM

Just for kicks I'd like to mention something that this reminded me of. In American history, when supporters of a new, stornger central government convened in the Constitutional Convention, they were all just that: supporters. Any figure who was expressly against the convention and going against the Articles of the Confederation did not participate. The reason being was that if they had gone, even to voice their dissent, it would have still been like lending a kind of credibility to the whole process by participating in the first place. By not going, they were trying to give the image that it was all shenanigans to circumvent the laws of the Articles. After the Convention was complete and it was up for ratification, you'll know all those who didn't participate were WTFing at that strategy.

jorgelito · 02-02-2005, 09:17 PM

That is hilarious meepa! do you have an article or reference? I have a history teacher who would get a great kick out of that. Thanks for sharing!

Mephisto2 · 02-02-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Mr. Mephisto, what Locke were you refering too? Could you you rprovide quote for me please? (Just naturally curious) Thank you.

Erm... the locke that started the thread. :-)

Mr Mephisto

jorgelito · 02-02-2005, 10:50 PM

*slaps forehead*

You know, I just figured that out hehehe...I thought you were referring to John Locke (So you can see why the quote sounded odd).

I think I need a time out.

Let me go check out Tilted Humor for a bit....

daswig · 02-02-2005, 11:04 PM

Well, it's good to see that the Sunni are taking a page from the far-left Democratic playbook...

02-02-2005, 11:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
Locke7 Insane	Sunni muslims question Iraq vote verocity By SAMEER N. YACO'UB, Associated Press Writer BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq (news - web sites)'s leading Sunni Muslim clerics said Wednesday the country's landmark elections lacked legitimacy because large numbers of Sunnis did not participate in the balloting, which the religious leaders had asked them to boycott. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._re_mi_ea/iraq Uh, so they are complaining about low sunni voter turnout when earlier they were hoping for low sunni turnout by boycotting the elections. That makes absolutely no sense to me. In fact, it looks like they were trying to get low sunni turnout so they could question the legitimicy afterwards...

02-02-2005, 12:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	If they wanted to be part of the democratic process they should have taken part in the democratic process. shrugs oh well, maybe next invasion. __________________ We Must Dissent.

02-02-2005, 12:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I have to agree... as messed up as the situation is there... You can't make claims to that it was unfair if you purposefully don't take part... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

02-02-2005, 08:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	I think there will still be Sunni representation anyways because of the method of elections: Proportional something or other (sorry, can't remember the exact term). Also, don't forget, Kurds are Sunni too so I guess it all depends on how you look at it. Mr. Mephisto, what Locke were you refering too? Could you you rprovide quote for me please? (Just naturally curious) Thank you. Last edited by jorgelito; 02-02-2005 at 08:45 PM.. Reason: grammar

02-02-2005, 08:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Locke7 Jorge. Kurds may be Sunni too, but they aren't really incorparated along with the Sunni's. They are autonomous and were targetted pretty heavily by Saddam (A Sunni). I don't think there identity as Sunni Muslims factors in to their identity so much as them being Kurds does. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

02-02-2005, 05:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	This is nothing new. As Locke says, once they boycotted the election one only expects them to complain about legitimacy. Everyone knew this was going to happen. The question is whether the Assembly can act in good faith and avoid any anti-Sunni bias. Mr Mephisto

02-02-2005, 07:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
inkriminator Insane	I wonder if it's the same clerics who were against elections who are now complaining against it. In either case, supposing some semblence of order comes to Iraq, and democracy becomes part of Iraq's fabric of society, the sunni clerics will realize that voting will be how they can influence things and will hopefully encourage. All the same, I've heard that the Iraqi turnout was very close to the American elections, somewhere around 60%, good for the Iraqis, a little sad for us Americanos

02-02-2005, 08:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
alansmithee Junkie	I'd be interesting to see this tactic catch on in other countries. I think it would be humourous to have parties to see who could get the most people to not vote.

02-02-2005, 08:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	Sorry but I cant feel sorry for a guy who first says he's going to hit his hand with a hammer, gets plenty of warning of the consiquences, then does it, and the complains. Sorry to sound like a jackass... but cry more sunni's

02-02-2005, 08:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	No, no of course. I was just trying to "stir the pot" a bit to illustrate the complexities of it all. I think there are many permutations and combinations of "interests" - ethnic, religious, tribal etc. I thought it was interesting, that Sunni Arab and Sunni Kurds can be so divided ethnically, but similar religiously. Likewise remember how complicated things were in Bosnia? Anyways, the "main" grups are still Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites. If only the UK had properly divided the country all those years ago......

02-02-2005, 08:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	If you call for your peoole to boycott an election, you have no right to complain about the legitimacy of that election due to low turnout among your followers. I assumed that this is what would happen, and it did happen exactly like I expected. Maybe they would have gotten more favorable (to them) results if they has encouraged all Sunnis to vote.

02-02-2005, 09:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
meepa Insane	Just for kicks I'd like to mention something that this reminded me of. In American history, when supporters of a new, stornger central government convened in the Constitutional Convention, they were all just that: supporters. Any figure who was expressly against the convention and going against the Articles of the Confederation did not participate. The reason being was that if they had gone, even to voice their dissent, it would have still been like lending a kind of credibility to the whole process by participating in the first place. By not going, they were trying to give the image that it was all shenanigans to circumvent the laws of the Articles. After the Convention was complete and it was up for ratification, you'll know all those who didn't participate were WTFing at that strategy.

02-02-2005, 09:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	That is hilarious meepa! do you have an article or reference? I have a history teacher who would get a great kick out of that. Thanks for sharing!

02-02-2005, 10:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	slaps forehead You know, I just figured that out hehehe...I thought you were referring to John Locke (So you can see why the quote sounded odd). I think I need a time out. Let me go check out Tilted Humor for a bit....

02-02-2005, 11:04 PM	#16 (permalink)
daswig Banned Location: BFE	Well, it's good to see that the Sunni are taking a page from the far-left Democratic playbook...