Aid to Tsunami victims
 

Here's a real shocker. Someone in the UN thinks we're "stingy." Never mind that our initial offer of aid is $35 million, and the entire European Union has only offered $9 million, as of today.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but the number of people who feel entitled to the American taxpayer's money is simply astounding.

link

That about sums it up.

This bugs the shit out of me.

First of all the comment was not made about America, but about "rich countries". As such, it's entirely true.

Secondly, the comment was not made about aid to the tsunami victims, but about international aid in general.

Thirdly, the US originally donated only US$15M. This was later increased to US$35M. Australia, a very much smaller country has also donated US$35M. Japan, another smaller country, has donated US$30M.

Even the US media has questioned the paltry sums (so far) pledged by the US government.

Personally, I don't want to degenerate into this sickening kind of cheap political nonesense. Keep this to subjects more appropriate. My anger makes me feel that only anti-UN, isolationist, neo-con flunkies could use this as a pathetic anti-UN rant; and this thread has only confirmed that bitter assumption.

Stop using this tragedy as a cheap political mop. If you want to save lives, rather than try to score political points, please donate to the many laudable US charities that are rushing to help the victims of this disaster.


Mr Mephisto

What he said better than I ever could have. Thx Mephisto.

same thing I posted in the 8.9 thread

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

The USaid organization is stretched thin enough as it is with there budget which as noted already active in many countries such as Iraq and Sudan.

And this was a shot at the US, people in Europe and such have a notion despite our record growth in aid over the years handed out, an additional 7 billion in both domestic and foreign (public and private), 234 to 241 billion dollars; that because we don't do it by our GDP, which by the way dwarves all other countries on the planet, that we are stingy. If you look at it our overall purchasing parity is more then England, France, Japan, and Germany combined, with about 2 trillion to spare.

I despise the UN, but I'm no "neo-con flunkie" or an isolationist, so please cool it down.

I despise the UN because of the corruption, not because I'm one of those ultra-patriots or anything. Clear the corruption and I'd support it, AKA punish severely those involved, and kick them out.

35 mill is less than the cost of the inauguration. sorry...but that doesn't really seem to cut it. yes, "eventual 1 billion" might be more like it. But i don't see how things are going to get done on imaginary money. if bush was hustling for the money, going to congress and making shit happen, i wouldn't bitch a bit. 35 now, the rest is on the way...that's reasonable. but right now, its a deafening silence, and i doubt that a significant amount of aid is going to get there in time to avert secondary casualties, deaths from disease and malnutrition.

mojo...what's so revolutionary about paying as percent of what we have? Luke 21:1-4 might have something to say. we talk very big, but we are giving a sum that barely even will be missed.

Could it be that we're in two wars at once already?

France/Germany arent doing much other than finding any reason to bitch about us... what's their excuse?

Martin, proverbs aside, we live in the material world, one where our resources are depleted

No it wasn't.

It was an off the cuff comment about rich countries.

Or do you have such an inflated view of yourself and your country that any comment about aid (or stinginess for that matter) automatically means people are talking about America?

It almost sounds like someone touched an open nerve.


Mr Mephisto

I don't need to cool it down.

A TOTAL MISREPRESENTATION of the truth around the comment is already being used by neo-cons and isolationists to bash the UN.

One guy made one comment (which I tend to agree with, by the way) when asked about international aid in general.

All of a sudden you have Bush and Co jumping up and down, and the right-wing US media wailing about how the UN is criticising America again.

Sheesh...


Mr Mephisto

Well they don't exactly have a good track record when it comes to embracing America now do they?

35 mil? What is that, like 2 days war in Iraq? Too bad we can spend billions upon billions destroying countries, but can only spare a few mil to help them.

Either way, some money is better than no money and the rest of the countries are not being any less "stingy".

I agree, but according to the article, the $35 million isnt the end of it. We will be giving more eventually after getting approval from congress.

Great. So why the big deal?

You guys are making a drama out of nothing but one official's off the cuff comment.

As I said, $35M is not that much at all. Especially compared to that given by other countries. But it's probably just the tip of the iceberg and the US will step up to the plate and help more. Therefore, so let's just forget this useless "outrage" and move on.

Mr Mephisto

How to help:

Care of the BBC.


Mr Mephisto

Apparently India doesn't want any foreign aid as they have "adequate resources". As a matter of fact, they said they have mounted relief for Sri Lanka and Maldives.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ndiaaidforeign

That's either completely fucked, or a nice gesture on India's part; the aid may be better used in other countries.

I can't make up my mind which.

India is typically considered a poor country, but it has a huge military and (unfortunately) quite a bit of experience in dealing with natural disasters. On the other hand, any help should be accepted.

It will be interesting to see what happens or if this "unnamed source" is accurate.


Thanks for the link


Mr Mephisto

France France has sent a plane with 100 rescue personnel, as well as 800 kg (1,750 lb) of medical supplies. It has also allocated 15 million EUR in aid.

Germany The German government has initially allocated EUR 20 million (USD 26 million) for immediate aid. According to a press release from the German secretary of foreign affairs, units of the governmental technical relief organisation (THW) are going to be sent to Thailand and Sri Lanka for rescue purposes, together with drinking water purification equipment to be instaled in Galle (Sri Lanka). Additional medical help is sent to Phuket this afternoon, including one of the MedEvac Airbuses - which are capable to fly out up to 30 intensive care patient out of the region to specialized hospital - of the German Air Force. The german chancellor has proposed to release the most affected countries from their debts.


Wikipedia


So,35milion for two countries with 1/3 the GDP.I wish they'd stop bitching

Really, considering we give more than that every year to those countries to keep their economies afloat...

Yeah, you're right seaver.

Fuck 'em. We keep their economies afloat so they can cripple their economies by repaying debt and also act as sponges for US trade.

Why should you spend an extra cent on helping those people? Of course, you could perhaps sell them food and medicenes? I'm sure Haliburton et al could come up with a nice business plan for the affected countries...


/sarcasm


Mr Mephisto

Maybe while on the topic of providing aid we provide aid the those children that work in sweatshops everyday. Children always seem to be left out. The rush seems to be lets get everything back to order so we can abuse them again!

Kill the Prime Minister of Malaysia Derrick.

I'm still trying to figure out what we're doing aiding countries that have natural disasters like this. We have to help ourselves when we have one, and we have enough problems of our own. I'll shut up now before I get myself in trouble.

I thought the government was pretty good about giving aid to Florida, oh wait that's right it's only because it was an election year and in a key swing state...

The $$$ amoutn doesn't include the people we send, nor does it include personal and organiztions contributions. That is strictly money from the US gov't "help other nations account" to the nations affected. It will rise much higher than that and will not include the slararies of the gov't personnel we send over to help. Nor will it include the $$$ we will contribute over the next few years/decades to help rebuild their economy.

Amazing how everything the US does or doesn't do pisses off the rest of the world.

Yes I agree we should get everything back in order or prices at walmart are going to be rising. :lol:

Just kidding, always it seems that when tragic events happen people want something or someone to blame. So we should all just shut up and clean up the mess and make sure that something like this never happens again because the way I understand it most of the people could have been saved if there was a warning system in place. The people have no one to blame except there own goverments. And yes I think it is our job as the leading power player in the world to clean it up. And we should make sure that this dosent happen again by forceing the countrys to set up a advanced warning system.

Are you serious. More than 80,000 people are dead. This is one of the greatest tradgedies of modern times. Im sick of the news/media currency that is given to developing nations and the attitude that brown lives dont matter.
'...No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee...'

I was talking about first world nations like Germany and France. They REALLY need our help... maybe if we took our foreign aid from them and used it on nations that really need it it'd give some substance to their incessent bitching about our decisions.

Wow, just turned on the news.... over 80,000 now expected dead....

Yeah I agree we need to pump a LOT more money to this area to help them out. When I posted these it was about 3-4,000 from what I saw. 80,000 is just horrid death rate.

Yeah, let's move on.

And the next time there's another UN vote to screw up our economy, let's just take it up the ass.

Everybody knows we've got unlimited money. By the way, how much aid has your country sent?

USA giving currently aid to germany? source?
Or are you talking about the aid you gave us (marshall plan)?

You know, despite over two years on TFP, I can't actually fucking believe this post.

sob, do you think this is a competition or something? By asking me how much "my country" has donated, I presume you're trying to take some self-defined and delusional high ground (or something).

I live in Australia.

Donations to Australian Red Cross alone total more than $10 million. Australians have donated $4 million to World Vision, Oxfam has taken more than $2.5 million, while CARE Australia and UNICEF have raised more than $1 million each.

The Australian government has donated $35M. That's about US$20M. And the Australian economy is vastly smaller than yours.

I'm Irish.

With regards to Ireland alone the following is a summary of current donations as of midday yesterday.

Trócaire: Has raised €2.3 million at Mass collections in four dioceses. Has already donated €500,000 to its Caritas partners in India and Sri Lanka.

Concern: Has donated €250,000, while a three-person team visited Tamil Nadu, one of India's worst-hit states, on Monday and Tuesday to make an initial assessment.

A local partner has distributed 4,000 emergency kits in Chennai, capital of Tamil Nadu, with another 16,000 to be made available.

GOAL: Had received €200,000 in donations by yesterday. Has team working in Nagabattinum, capital of Tamil Nadu, where it hopes to be feeding 10,000 families by the weekend. A GOAL team left Dublin yesterday for Colombo in Sri Lanka.

Irish Red Cross: Received €50,000 on Tuesday alone. Immediate focus on Sri Lanka. The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies has begun a worldwide appeal for €32.3 million.

The Irish government has donated €2M (which I believe is far too little).


Are you happy now that I've given you figures?

Does it make you feel superior?


Just a quick question for you sob.


How much have YOU, personally donated?


Get off your high horse and try to help. The current death toll is around 120,000 people. Think about that figure.

120,000 dead men, women and children.

One hundred and twenty thousand...


Mr Mephisto

Couldn't agree with you more Mephisto. When the figures stood at 4,000 I was ticked at the statement. But 80,000-120,000...

Some of the Indonesian islands dont exist currently. The average height of most Indonesian islands is 3-6 feet above sea level, the tsunami was said to be 20-30 feet high...

Whoever's left there are going to need LOTS of help.

Even faced with a human tragedy of almost unimaginable proportions, it seems some people are more concerned with jingoistic/nationalistic arguments about who is giving the most and who should be... it makes me sad.

What does it matter who gives what, what matters is that the help arrives.

This is not the time to argue about what France has done, or why America is allowed to violate international clean air laws, or who Russia has sold arms to, or whether the EU constitution is corrupt, or the war against Iraq... if people and nations cannot pull together now, when 100,000 lives hang in the balance and may be saved or lost depending on how quickly and surely we act... then can they ever? If people cannot give aid to a tragedy like this without having to use it to score points "I gave more than you, you are stingy, etc etc etc" then there is no hope I see in the human race as it today.

I have also heard reports that an Israeli field hospital was refused and turned away from Sri Lanka - although supplies were accepted from Israel. So sad, what difference could those few doctors have made ... some, how many lives wheld in the balance will be lost due to this racist decision (if it is true)... some... may they always know and always bear with them the blood that is on their hands.

The US props-up the German and French economies? I've never heard this before, where did you get this information?

A 150-member Israeli aid delegation canceled its mission to Sri Lanka on Tuesday, after the country - one of the hardest hit in the Asian tsunami disaster - apparently refused to accept the Israeli team, Israel Defense Forces officials said.

However, the Sri Lankan president's military secretary sent a notice to the country's foreign and defense ministries Tuesday expressing support for the arrival of a 50-member Israeli delegation.

"We are not opposed to a plane loaded with medical supplies, food and blankets that will be accompanied by a medical team comprised of 50 IDF people, as the Israeli Foreign Ministry requested in a letter," the military secretary said in the notice.

In any case, Israel is sending supplies at Sri Lanka's request, including 10,000 blankets contributed by the IDF, tents, nylon sheeting and water containers. The IDF Home Front Command is organizing aid preparations.

The Israeli humanitarian organization Latet ("To Give") is sending a separate aid package Tuesday. It is filling a jumbo jet with 18 tons of supplies worth $50,000, at Sri Lanka's request. The group is considering sending additional aid shortly.

Sri Lanka said on Tuesday the death toll from the tsunami had risen to about 18,700 people, including at least 200 foreign tourists. Sri Lankan military spokesman Daya Ratnayake said more than 1.5 million people had been displaced from their homes - around 7.5 percent of Sri Lanka's population.

About 37,000 people were confirmed dead Tuesday in the wake of the tsunami that slammed into coasts from India to Indonesia two days before, with some estimates nearly doubling that toll.

The aid delegation that had been set to depart for Sri Lanka on Tuesday included medical teams and representatives of the IDF and Defense Ministry, who were planning to provide humanitarian assistance and participate in search-and-rescue operations.

The delegation was planning to assemble a medical facility comprised of specialist doctors, and set up emergency, internal medicine and pediatric departments, as well as laboratory and X-ray facilities in the southern part of Sri Lanka.

A far smaller team landed in Sri Lanka on Monday night, headed by four doctors from Hadassah University Hospital, Ein Karem in Jerusalem. The team was carrying medicine and baby food.

The doctors - who specialize in rescue operations, trauma and pediatrics - were also checking the viability of setting up a field hospital in the area, and advised Israel to send a larger team, such as the one Sri Lanka rejected.

"We will advise Israel and the Foreign Ministry... to send something more massive," said Dr. Avi Rivkind, director of Hadassah's trauma unit. "We will try to use our... broad experience in dealing with terror attacks and rescuing masses to help in this disaster as well."

Israel is weighing the option of sending similar delegations to Thailand, where more than 1,400 people have died, and India, where more than 9,500 people have died or are feared dead, but has yet to make a final decision on the matter.

Strange Famous...I couldn't have said it better myself.

Embassies in Thailand- Contact numbers

Australia 66(0) 2 287 2680
Belgium 66 (0) 2 679 5454
Canada 66 (0) 2 636 0540
China 66 (0) 2 245 7032-3 or 2 245 7036
Denmark 66 (0) 2 213 2021-5 or 245 7036
Finland 66 (0) 2 256 9306-9
France 66 (06) 2 266 8250-6 or 2 266 0550-3
Germany 66 (0) 2 287 9000
Ireland 66 (0) 638 0303
Israel 66 (0) 2 260 4854-9
Italy 66 (0) 2 285 4090-3
Japan 66 (0) 2 252 6151-9
South Korea 66 (0) 2 247 7537
Netherlands 66 (0) 2 254 7701-5
New Zealand 66 (0) 2 254 2530
Norway 66 (0) 2 261 0230-5
Russia 66 (0) 2 234 9824
Singapore 66 (0) 2 286 1434
South Korea 66 (0) 2 247 7537
Spain 66 (0) 2 252 6112
Sweden 66 (0) 2 263 7211 or 2 263 7239
Switzerland 66 (0) 2 253 0156
Taiwan 66 (0) 2 670 0200-1
United Kingdom 66 (0) 2 3058333
USA 66 (0) 2 205 4000

152,000 Dead 510,000 Injured

"How Many is 120,000?" (you may, however, choose to donate to an organization other than the Red Cross, as thier administrative overhead is purported to significantly dilute donations)
http://www.toddbinder.com/Toll.aspx


What does a humanitarian disaster look like on the ground?
WARNING. . ..EXTREMELY GRAPHIC PHOTO BELOW DEPICTING HUMAN CASAULTIES is linked below:


http://homepage.mac.com/jlgolson/ruumiita4ft.jpg

Talk about high horses!!

Anyone can claim anything they want on-line in regard to their charitable donations. I'm not going to post my tax return for you.

That said, over the past ten years, I have donated thousands to charities, chief among them worldwide polio eradication. That is presently shifting toward providing drinking water free of Guinea worm in places like Ghana.

I do it through the local Rotary club, because 100% of the funds get to where they belong. When Rotary International helps with this cause, I will donate there, too.

I do NOT (unlike knee-jerk bleeding hearts) throw money at organizations who profess to be helping, but who keep up to 90% of the donations for "operating overhead."

For decades, the US government has operated in the manner you suggest, namely, gather loads of money, then distribute it willy-nilly. It doesn't work.

More thoughtful individuals try to ensure that the money gets to the right place. Unfortunately, these wise people never seem to be in our Congress.

Now, if you're finished hijacking the thread, I'll get back to the subject I brought up, namely that the UN misses no opportunity to dump on the United States. Your accusation of using this tragedy as a "cheap political mop" would more appropriately be directed at Jan Egeland, but you might have missed his name, due to your skipping over the part that mentions the huge amount of aid the US is mobilizing.

One final note:

Here's another guy who will be among the first to scream that the US is "stingy."

Helpful-looking sort, isn't he?

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UgAjY...03938076025965

If I may step up on my soapbox for a minute. . . .

It's not worth the wear and tear on your keyboard to get caught up in these debates about who's more generous/stingy. This is an enourmous catastrophe, and all the world's citizens need to step up to the plate.

So far, the US has pledged $350million, and the total cummulative pledges of world governments (including the US) have reached about $500million. Early estimates suggest that over $2billion of relief is needed, so private citizens across the world need to step up and give as their means will allow.

Ok, I'm stepping off the soapbox now.

If the aid agency is a legitimate organization, it will detail its overhead costs. I haven't heard of any legitimate organization operating under a 90% overhead cost.

What is the point, sob, of posting that last photograph and circling that man? I think your post is inflammatory and I reported it as such.

I find your posts tiresome. I'm sure others find mine to be tiresome, as well. As a result of my personal development and coming to understand that over the course of my being a member here, I have sometimes gone overboard and sometimes moderated myself. I haven't seen you moderate yourself yet. What I have seen you do is attack various members of the TFP community who you believe to be liberals and I don't think your attitude or post content lends to positive community building.


EDIT: I forgot to post this graphic indicating the paltry sums private citizens are donating (as well as some nations') to foreign aid per capita

http://www.latimes.com/media/thumbna...2/15665098.gif

The donations of ordinary people also must be taken into account. The British public have out stripped the donations made by the govt - Mephisto may find this artcle worthy of note in regard to previous comments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4136545.stm

UK tsunami donations reach £45m

The UN is pleading for the world's help
The British public has donated £45m to help the victims of the Asian tsunami, say relief charities.
Up to £1m an hour has been donated and the government has raised its pledge from £15m to £50m, making it one of the largest international donors.

A three-minute silence is to be held on Wednesday to remember the 124,000 known to have died - including 34 Britons.

The Queen has sent a New Year message of thanks to British charity workers and those who have made donations.

She said: "The dreadful events in Asia have shocked us all. No one could fail to be moved by the pictures we have seen of the devastation across the region.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with all those who have lost family or friends, and also with those who still await news of loved ones who are missing."

The Queen added she had been impressed by the willingness of Britons to help through "donations, time, money or help with the relief effort on the ground".

Some people are coming off the flights in just their boxer shorts and with no luggage


On Friday alone £13m was received by the Tsunami Earthquake Appeal, set up by the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC), an umbrella group for leading charities.

Brendan Gormley, the DEC chief executive, said the response to TV and radio appeals had been "absolutely phenomenal".

"But it really doesn't end here. The scale of this disaster means that the recovery process will be very long term and we really would encourage people to continue giving," he said.

He urged people to make internet donations where possible, because they are received immediately.

The website, which has been strengthened to cope with demand, has been receiving more than 11,000 donations an hour.

The DEC is also providing thousands of telephone lines for people to give donations - by calling 0870 60 60 900.

Hundreds of thousands of pounds have been donated by British businesses and organisations.

The English Premiership's 20 football clubs have donated £1m to the quake fund, with Birmingham City striker Dwight Yorke calling for all the top division's stars to give a week's wages to the relief effort. The England cricket team donated £15,000.

Announcing the increased government donation, Chancellor Gordon Brown said: "We will do all we can in the weeks and months ahead to ease the suffering of the millions left homeless, orphaned and vulnerable, and to help the rebuilding of their communities."

HOW TO DONATE
The Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC) is an umbrella group of UK charities including, among others, British Red Cross, Cafod, Oxfam, Save the Children, Tearfund
Call them on 0870 60 60 900 or donate online at www.dec.org.uk
By the end of the week people should be able to donate cash or cheques - made payable to the DEC Tsunami Earthquake Appeal - at High Street banks.
Cash or cheques (made payable to Post Office Ltd) can be donated over the counter at Post Office branches.
Other bodies raising money include the Muslim groups Muslim Aid (020 7377 4200) and Islamic Relief (0121 622 0622) and the Hindu charities Sewa International 0116 261 0303 and the ISKCON Disaster Appeal on 01923 856848.
Sri Lankan organisations including Asia Quake Relief Appeal UK (asia-quakerelief@europe.com) are also raising money


The government has also pledged to meet the costs of transporting any items bought with appeal funds.

And on Friday it announced the Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship Diligence and frigate HMS Chatham were heading to the disaster area, aiming to arrive on Tuesday to help with the relief effort.

International Development Secretary Hilary Benn told BBC News: "There is a reconnaissance team now going to the region and they will advise on where these ships can be best be deployed."

HMS Chatham has Lynx helicopters on board which will be used to transport supplies and an RAF C17 transport plane will be used to help move relief supplies.

Some Britons injured in the disaster say they will stay on to help with the aid effort.

David Holborn, 54, from Romford, Essex was swept off Kata Noi beach, near Phuket, and his wife Sophia have been helping with local fundraising events.

"We lost everything, but we are safe," said Mr Holborn.

"If you see what they have lost, it breaks your heart ... I want to help these people."

The British High Commissioner in the Sri Lankan capital Colombo, Steven Evans, said there was a "very good chance" many of those reported missing were still alive.

He said: "Very often, people are thought to be missing but, in fact, they are safe and that fact hasn't become clear to the authorities.

"Alternatively they've moved elsewhere in the island and have yet to report in."

'Money is the best way to help'
Food was beginning to arrive with those who needed it most, he said.

Religious leaders are increasing their efforts to persuade people to contribute as much as they can.

An appeal for donations is being read out in more than 400 mosques across the UK on Friday and many churches are planning weekend collections.

Buddhist, Hindu and Sikh groups have also been raising money.

The Foreign Office is chartering extra passenger planes back to Britain to cope with the demand from stranded tourists.

It has set up an emergency helpline - 020 7008 0000 - for people worried about missing relatives.

The United States is donating $350 million now. I fail to see how that is by any means stingy. I think this debate is over.

All the Bush haters should find something else to complain about now. I think he's done a damn good job providing relief funds here.

I don't want to get in on this argument but before people start saying "I told you so" and such on the new 350 million figure realize that without the presure of these people complaining the figure would have never been bumped up.

All due respect, Rekna, that is an unsubstantiated and dubious assumption. Since when has the Bush administration shown any sensitivity to what the world media thinks of them?

I believe that once the scope of the disaster was understood, that more than anything resulted in the substantial increase. If "shame" had anything to do with it, I would argue that it is the shame of the world governments for sitting on their hands when 500,000 people were murdered with machetes in one month in Rwanda 10 years ago that has made them more responsive to catastrophe's in the present (especially if they don't involve any military action).

Ohh so should we assume if no one had said a thing we wouldn't be giving just the 35 million? That Bush would have quickly decided ohh they need more, lets give them 10 times as much?

Jesus, cant people on BOTH sides just stop point scoring and try and just help, or not if they dont want to or they cant, but just be glad for everything we can do, and try to do as much as we can? The comments of some low level civil servant are not evidence of a great UN conspiracy against America, and we should understand that America has and is giving more than any other nation, because in the world at the moment they are the most powerful nation. Do we need to scroll through atrocity photo's to find a picture of Sri Lankan wearing a Bin Laden shirt? What is the intention? What is the purpose of this?

At the risk of repeating myself, a stagering amount of lives have been destroyed in a few minutes of disaster, this is the worst disaster of many of our lifetimes, the loss of life is incredible, and is growing at a terrifying rate, and we as people and nations can help and gave save lives

My wish is that all of us who do care and do want to help, could guide ourselves to doing what we can, giving what we can, being activists in our own community to drum up as much as help as we can do.... to at such a moment still to see this is a place to be attacking other nations for not doing as much as you are doing is just wrong, this is not the time.

Please, just do what you can, and focus your energies on your own community, because each of us holds in our power the ability to save lives.

And you can call me a name for not doing enough, for not tightening my belt more to give more...

And you can call me a name for only giving to charity when there is a great disaster, when people need help all the time

If everyone just gave something, a few bucks, whatever figure they wouldnt even miss... it WOULD make a difference, it would save countless lives... and everyone must make their own choice, and everyone should judge only themselves.

Good news and bad news:

First the bad news: the death toll is approaching 150,000

The good news: worldwide aid contributions have now topped $1 billion !!!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...1503&ncid=2337

No, I think Bush pledged $35mil when the death toll was projected at 15,000, and has now increased it to $350mil as the death toll has increased by almost tenfold.

But it's really of no consequence. The important thing is that Asia gets the resources they need, politics aside.

In spite of your failure to specify whether you consider Rotary to be an illegitimate organization, or whether you contend that it does not maintain an overhead less than 90%, I'll respond. I won't even quote your comment about checking facts.

Their work is funded to a great extent by member donations. Admittedly, fundraisers such as golf/bowling tournaments and pancake breakfasts incur an overhead that must be paid.

However, when I simply write a check, 100% of it goes to whom I intend.

Edit: I misspoke. If I appy for a grant for a charitable project, and it is approved, Rotary International will multiply my donation by a factor of 16.

Yes, I mean $1,000 -----------> $16,000

For more information:

Link

Rotarians have distributed Polio vaccine all over the world, by boat, camel, and dogsled, among other means. There's not enough space on this website to detail all of their humanitarian projects.

This economically sound system is why I support voluntary charitable contributions (already underway by RI for tsunami victims) as opposed to government extortion.

All of your "moderated" posts send the message to me that you disagree with my philosophy. At least, as long as the government takes everyone ELSE's money, and leaves yours alone. I find this hypocritical.

Figures. The point is that the US continues to donate money for aid, even to people who hate us. We are by far the most generous nation in the history of the world, and we still (back to the point of the thread) get dumped on, particularly by the UN.

To my knowledge, a thread originated in the last two days is the only positive thing Mr Mephisto has ever said about the US. I can't recall ANYTHING positive you, Stompy, or several others have ever posted about the country that's subsidizing your education.

By the way, in spite of your accusation in another thread, I have never reported you to a moderator. It must have been another of your fans.


And your point is...?

actually, I think you read my statement about operating under a 90% overhead as saying that no legitimate organization operates below such an overhead--as in, you thought I was stating that all of them operate at 90% or above.

I was responding to what you claimed to Mephisto regarding liberal knee-jerk reactions about giving money to places that operate with a 90% overhead.

Read in context, I was stating that no legitimate organization is going to have an overhead cost of 90%+. They aren't going to operate with such a high overhead, or under such a large umbrella of costs.

Anyone who is concerned about where there money is going can contact the agency. If it's legitimate, it will tell you what its overhead costs are.

That's an excellent question...especially when you consider how popular we are with some in the region. I offer for your perusal the following: http://editorial.gettyimages.com/sou...96117&c%20di=0

We should be shooting people who wear pro-OBL t-shirts in the head, not sending them disaster relief.

On edit: dang, read the rest of the thread through, and now see that SOB had already shown the gettyphoto.

If individuals want to send money for disaster relief, that's A-OK by me. But it's not our government's job to give our tax money to foreigners overseas who already hate us, REGARDLESS of how much Democrats say it is.

Sob and Daswig cmon now.. I agree with a good bit of what you say on this forum, but its compeletly rediculous to make a big deal about this picture. This is one person in a country of OVER A BILLION. Are you seriously going to contend that we shouldnt send aid to the country because there is one man in a photo wearing an osama shirt?

I agree with some of Osama's politics (certianally not his methods, of course), should I also be SHOT (i.e. murdered in cold blood)?

Or maybe we should consider the larger good? Maybe these people who had little warning and have been massacred by nature need our help? Perhaps, as the owners of a great deal of the world wealth, we have a responsibility (not as Americans or Republicans or any such shallow label, but as HUMANS) to help those who need help?

My money is going straight to 12 families in Sri Lanka who are in desperate need. You might consider thinking about those who don't know or care about your politics who died needlessly and who might die needlessly because of bad water or because their home was destroyed.

EDIT:
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Just a friendly reminder.

By that logic, we should also shoot all Bush supporters in the head as well. Both sides justify their murderous actions by putting it in Gods name.

Wait, how do we know it's a pro-Osama shirt? For all we know, it could say something like "Fuck Osama" at the bottom. It's covered up by the shirt tied around his waist, or on the back.

I've seen some t-shirts with Bush's picure on it, and some negative statement like "international terrorist" on the bottom or back even.

Also, there are a lot of people in our country (USA) that wear freakin' Che Guevera t-shirts and Abu Jamal t-shirts, especially on college campuses! Probably more than that 'one' guy wearing an Osama t-shirt. Those guys were terrorists too and commies!

Because one guy wearing a T-shirt is representative of a dozen different countries representing 5 major religions speaking 10s of languages? This leap of "logic" is astounding...

At any rate, international aid now at the 2.5 billion mark, I understand, with Japan heading the pack at $500 million. I'm very cool with the big nations trying to outdo each other with respect to who can give more help. That's a great contest...

Does anyone have a theory for why Norway is so far ahead of the pack, even compared to other nordic countires, and especially in private giving? And perhaps the US is low on the list because it is more inward looking?

Links to recent French/German bitchiness please?

I'm not sure but I have a feeling that it is because Norway is exceedingly rich because it is an oil producer, much richer than any other nordic country. Though everything is also very expensive in Norway...

What are you talking about?

The list was posted because you, yes YOU asked.

It's farcical that you now respond as you did above, when all I did was answer your question.

Well, good for you.

Huh?

Medicene Sans Frontier keep up to 90% of their donations? (Well, these guys must be bad. They have French words in their name!!!)

The American Red Cross keep up to 90% of the their donations?
World Vision? Oxfam?

References please. I'm all ears.

Wow, you should get a job with the US government. "It doesn't work"... you must be able to see something that the rest of the world doesn't!

Oh, and by the way, when did I suggest that the US government gather loads of money and distribute it willy-nilly? I didn't. You're barking up the wrong tree here mate. Or boxing with shadows.

All I said was that the US was not mentioned by UN Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland when he talked about the lamentable reduction in international aid.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Members of the US Congress themselves complained about the original $35M donation.

Hijacking the thread? Well, that's a bit rich (if you'll pardon the pun). You asked me a question. I answered it. Now I'm hijacking the thread. Hmmm...

With regards to the comments about Jan Egeland, I can assure you that I didn't miss his name. And if you are accusing me of "skipping over the part that mentions the huge amount of aid the US is mobilizing" then it is YOU who is shielding their eyes. Check out this thread for example: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=79895

I've actually gone out of my way to praise America for its actions since the magnitude of this disaster became clear.

Sheesh...


Guess what? I can find lots of pictures of Americans with Hitler tee-shirts on. And pictures of Americans posing beside murdered blacks. And pictures of American soldiers standing beside abused prisoners.

One final note:

Shall I post these too?



Mr Mephisto

The next time you have this much trouble comprehending a post, it would be better to PM the author.

With constructive comments like this, it should not be a surprise that I choose not to respond further.

Closed Thread