Gatorade Frost

So [insert president] declares that there's going to be a draft, and you're number is picked.

What are you going to do? Be drafted into the military? Go to a foreign nation to escape the draft? Find an excuse?

Personally I'd let myself be drafted into the military because I figure I owe it to my nation to serve if need be.

Your thoughts?

Stompy

I'd do something to disable myself... probably shoot myself in the kneecap.

That way I can't serve, and I don't have to go hide in another country.

If we're getting invaded, then sure, why not... but if it's something unimportant that I don't care about like Iraq or some kind of Vietnam equivalent, then hell no.

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MuadDib

The moment I caught wind that the draft had been reinitiated I would head down to my local recruitment center and enlist. If its that serious that the draft needs to be implimented then its not going to take a lottery to get me to do, what I consider to be, my civic duty. Plus, having more say in how I serve is a definate perk.

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tecoyah

I would of course....accept the need and serve.
I would also make it clear (not that it would do any good) That I will not kill another person, unless I agree with the cause.

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hannukah harry

i'm kinda torn... on the one hand, if it's a conflict i agree with, then i'd go and see about enlisting in the air force or navy. my grandfathers were in wwII, one in each of those branches.

unless they increase the age, i think i don't need to even worry about it though, becuase i'm either cut off right now or will be in feb.

also, from my understanding, if you have flat feet they won't take you, and i also have a medical implant which might disqualify me... i dunno. but if called, i'd serve, i wouldn't be happy with it if it were an "iraq or vietnam" fiasco.

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seep

I really think it ain't gonna happen. I really think that no matter who wins, we're pretty much done in Iraq. But if we go to war yet again, well...

I'd play it by ear. Not really big on getting shot for something I don't believe in, but hey, it builds character.

Ustwo

Ironicly if we need a draft it will be under Kerry as less people will enlist of their own free will. There is a reason the military votes Republican.

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Stompy

I think you're saying that just to say it. What information do you base this off of?

Not only that, but you contradict yourself. You're saying that people are HAPPY to be in Iraq now, and because of that they'll vote republican?

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Flyguy

How are you going to volunteer (or accept the draft) to serve in the military (which sole purpose is to figure out how to kill someone before they kill you first) if you have convictions about killing people in the first place? That sounds contradictory to me.

Ustwo

Happy to BE in Iraq? no.

Happy to be serving their country? Damn straight.

The military always polls heavly republican, its one of those things, shyster laywers vote dem, military votes republican.

This might shock you but a lot of people want to serve their country and won't shoot themselves in the foot to avoid doing it.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

tecoyah

Note the "Unless I agree with the cause" Clause

And I would never volunteer to do so....I would however, submit to the draft, as it is part of my civil obligation to the country I love.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Flyguy

Enjoy the desert.

I will NOT go in the case of Iraq. If it was something else, mabye, depending on the circumstances. But Iraq, fuck no.

When Bush sends his daughters, then I'll think about it. Stop wraping yourself in old glory and look at the situation for as fucked up as it really is.

smooth

Stompy,

Until I see solid research on why military personnel vote republican, and how that links to their support for a presidential candidate during a war (that is, 'traditionally' voting republican doesn't mean much when we aren't traditionally in wars), I'm guestimating these are spurious correlations.

It might be more meaningful to compare the relative education levels of servicepeople and their spouses to their voting patterns.

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"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

avhg1

I can not and will not go to war to kill people when I feel it is completely unjustified. I would try to move to another country. Having opinions I think the war in Iraq is wrong in many ways and it's time for us to finish up and get out.

archer2371

I will go regardless of destination. However, the President can't declare a draft, the Congress has to do that, and conscription is something that is political suicide, a draft is nigh on impossible unless we declare war on China or something. But like I said, I will go wherever they need me to go, that's why the first thing I did when I turned 18 was to register with the Selective Service, then I registered to vote.

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djtestudo

I would go, serve my time, and come back and work to vote whomever wanted the draft (President or Congress, Republican or Democrat) out of a political career.

This assumes that the draft is under present circumstances, and not under something like war with China or an invaison of the US or something like that.

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tecoyah

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Willravel

Underneith my Godlike body lies a serious heart condition and severe colorblindness. I would be the one serving my country by mowing the lawn in front of fort nowhere. If I was of full health, I would serve. If I dissagreed with the war, I would obey all legal orders, and only speak out only after returning. Killing innocent civilians is illegal, so I would not be doing a lot of what are troops are doing in Iraq presently.

theusername

i'd volunteer probably for the group least likely to have casualties, Navy? Regardless, if drafted I'd serve.

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Bill O'Rights

Speaking as a former enlisted member of the United States Air Force, I will opt to let this statement go to the side...for now. I have a cold right now, otherwise I'd have sworn that I smelled condescention in the air.

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Stompy

Again.. contradicting yourself.

Happy to be in Iraq? No.

Happy to be serving their country? Yes.

Happy to be serving their country in Iraq? No. Soo... you basically said the same thing I did.

Typical, but you didn't read my entire post (wow, deja vu!), because after I said I'd shoot myself, I added "Unless we were being invaded" where it mattered. Iraq is trivial. Vietnam was trivial. You aren't "serving your country" while in Iraq aside from the fact you were given an order to go and have to blindly follow.

This might come as a shock to you, but reading the entire post often gives insight that most likely prove a part of your next statement wrong unless you carefully read again and revise as necessary

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smooth

No condesencion from me.

There is a plethora of empirical evidence linking education levels to voting patterns.

What was your highest grade completed when you enlisted?

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Bill O'Rights

I was a high school graduate.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

D Rice

I would go to war for this country. What is the price of freedom for Iraq?

filtherton

I'd probably fight an afghanistan, but iraq? Nope, no thanks. So i guess it depends on the conflict. As it stands, i've thought about joining up, but so far i seem to be doing all right as a civilian.

MuadDib

In all fairness, in regards to the education level debate I want to let you know that I am currently a law student and fully intend on joining the JAG program upon completion of my degree. Their are plenty of profressionals in the military ranging from medical doctors to psychologists to lawyers to engineers. Not only that, but you neglect that the military is an alternate source of education and anyone who plans to make a career of military service receives more hours and years of education than any bachelors and most masters degree students.

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Cadwiz

Smooth,
I enlisted in the Marine Corps right after high school, where I was taking college physics and math as a senior. I was also visited by the Navy, who wished to employ me on a nuke sub, no thanks. So, education aside, I personally am at odds with the Democrat way of thinking. Recieving government entitlements for having seven kids I can't support. As for me, I think the military cultivated an already present attitude of working for what you get, and consequences for your actions. This may be the reason the military votes republican.

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Semper Fi

smooth

I didn't neglect anything. Are you mixing officer programs with enlisted personnel?

Regardless, I didn't even make a claim other than to say that education levels are more meaningful correlations between voting patterns than claiming an enlisted person votes republican because he or she supports a particular party due to how it treats the military.

All of the posts in response to mine have taken issue with me claiming they should turn to empirical evidence rather than speculation. Curiously, none of them have argued that they vote republican because the republicans are better supporters of military personnel than democrats.


You all are taking issue because you want to nitpick at something--it has little to do with the point of the thread or even my comment. I didn't say anything disparingly about education level and party affiliaton. If you bothered to look up what I was referring to, you would have found that it's not as though low education equals republican voters. In fact, the opposite until one enters post-secondary education. So it seems that someone with a medium level of post-secondary education (~bachelor's degree to master's) will vote republican more often than not, which would fit well with the other socialization funtioncs researchers have found to be supported by that level of education.

Either ask for clarification if you don't understand something I write, or find someone else to badger if that's your intent.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

MuadDib

Forgive me if I misunderstood you smooth, but the way this was phrased seems like a joke saying military people are dumb and thats why they vote republican. I'm glad you clarified your post and though I can appreciate a good republican joke as much as any other democratic, it just seemed a bit untoward. Again, sorry if it seemed I was biting your head off or if I mistook your earlier comment, but it was made and I hope you can see where I, and apparently some others, might have gotten the wrong impression.

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"The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

smooth

In a nutshell, there is no causal relationship that I am aware of between being in the military and voting patterns.

If we examine the profiles of people who enter the enlisted ranks of the military, we would find more meaningful explanations of why those people vote republican.

Claiming that the majority of military personnel vote republican, while true according to polls, is a spurious correlation and doesn't mean anything.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

mbaha

The draft is a good idea we have too many pussies in this country, they need to go over seas do some killing and come back real men!!

tecoyah

.............Nice...........Yawns

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

analog

I like how it's touted that the brainwashed mass of men and women that serve our country are largely republican. No shit. By and large, they don't like progress, they like war. They're mentally conditioned to think how they're told to think, and guess how many of those telling the people what to think are already republicans? When I think armed forces, I think "conservative". Am I convinced they're largely republican in general? You'd have to work pretty hard to convince me otherwise.

seretogis

I would ask, then tell.

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DJMala

If the US or our allies were under attack by a capable aggressor, to the point where a draft needed to be instituted, I would absolutely serve my country.

Under the current circumstances, misled into a costly, foolish, and unnecessary war, against a country that wasn't even a threat to its neighbors... Je vous verrai au Québec. (Pardon my babelfish-French.)

You might want to rethink that. I heard a story about this guy's dad, who had a low lottery number for Vietnam and decided to enlist. He figured he could get a non-combat role, instead of getting stuck on a hill with a gun. He ended up in some kind of communications unit. They stuck him on a hill with no gun.

Rdr4evr

First of all, I would NEVER fight for a coward chimp who didn't have the balls to fight himself. Second of all, I don't believe in war and murder. Third of all, I would move my ass to Canada so fast.

hannukah harry

i'm sorry, but i really have to disagree with this. first, i heard there's an agreement between the US and Canada that says that Canada won't harbor draft dogers. Second, the weather in Mexico is much, much nicer than up north. And thirdly, as an educated American, I'm pretty sure I could get an excellent job down there compared to having an incredible amount of competition in Canada.

so go to Mexico!

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Rdr4evr

How would they know I'm a draft dodger? I got family up there anyway . But if they won't let me in. MEXICO IT IS!!

mrbuck12000

my father is there as we speak...and i'm thinking of firing up the bike and cashing in the retirement fund and going to try and find him. leave this right wing christian hell hole!!!!

mrb

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smooth

hmm, mexico. nice thought. I'll keep that in mind.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman