OpieCunningham

Whatever man, totally seperate discussion but I'm confident I would win the argument.

At that point, you won't have any say in the matter. Which is exactly the point. Intentions are more important than actions. By supporting the actions while not supporting the intentions, you throw your support to a goal which you do not share.

FoolThemAll

Fair enough. But I'm nearly the opposite of convinced that Bush will undertake such actions. Same for the idea of his being driven by the Rapture. He just seems like a typical neocon to me.

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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

Halx

Opie highlights just one of the many things that the common voter does not see when they look at the Bush campaign. I think that until some of you conservatives realize that you are not just a citizen of the United States, but that you are also a citizen of the entire earth, things will continue down this absurd self-righteous path. This is it. This is all we have. The surface of the Earth, and right here and now.

I make these blanket statements because I believe them to be true: Conservatives seek to contain culture into a narrow spectrum, free of deviations, easily managed, and efficient. This view only translates well on a small section of a population. If you try to apply it to the entire world (read: current US foreign policy) shit is gonna erupt.

In conclusion, while you may like the decisions the republicans make for you here at home, they are fucking the world equilibrium. Add to that Bush's crusade motives and then you can probably see why liberals are ripping their hair out.

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FoolThemAll

And what if I happen to think that where the United States and the "rest of the world" disagree, the United States has it right? Should I give up my beliefs to prevent a shit eruption? There isn't self-righteousness in this. It's a matter of holding a reasoned opinion and voting/acting on it regardless of whether it's popular with the world at large. I suspect that the equilibrium you speak of is not something I'd desire.

These were the blanket statements. Certainly they apply to a good number of conservatives and liberals. But you can't count on them. They're not useful. Not all conservatives think that "everything's going great" and not all liberals consider consider Bush conservatives to be blind morons lying their asses off. (Thank God.)

Actually, on a side-note, I live in an environment that is admittedly saturated with conservatives, and the general consensus seems to be that Bush lost the debate.

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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

The Phenomenon

Where can you download the video or audio of the debates?

I missed 'em.

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Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

DJ Happy

Your beliefs are sacred and I hope that you are eventually able to live by them without fear of recrimination or abuse.

Unfortunately, the rest of the world feels the same about their beliefs and don't appreciate others telling them that they are wrong.

Conviction should not extend beyond your boundaries, but tolerance should have no boundaries.

FoolThemAll

I disagree. Conviction should extend beyond national boundaries when a compelling interest is at stake. There are things that no one should tolerate. I can handle being told I'm wrong, actually. I handle it quite often. They should be able to as well.

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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.