Why Iraq is not currently a sovereign nation - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Jesus Pimp · 06-29-2004, 06:18 AM

1) The Iraqi government will not be able to impose martial law in Iraq. The US can.

2) The CPA has signed a contract with Anham Joint Venture to be Iraq's only source of arms for its military over the next two years. See link above.

3) US troops are immune from prosecution by the Iraqi government.

4) The Iraqi military will still be under US command. Ditto intelligence services. When asked by John Warner if "military decisions continue to reside indefinitely in the control of the American commander," General Richard Myers, the Charmain of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said "Yes."

5) American rebuilding aid will be doled out and controlled by the Americans. (Same link as #4). The reconstruction aid approved for this year was $18.5 billion, and Juan Cole estimates the government's annual income at $20 billion, though I don't know what his source is for that.

6) The Iraqi government will run the police force "but in coordination with Centcom [the U.S. Central Command], because this is not a normal police situation." This according to Paul Wolfowitz.

7) Before getting the hell out of Dodge, Paul Bremer made a series of edicts that will stay in effect after the transition, as well as appointing Iraqis to high-level administrative positions. The decrees cover election, traffic, copyright, tax, business, and labor law among other things. (If you only click one link, let this be it)

Basically, the government that is in place now is just a placeholder assigned with carrying on the day-to-day administrative duties of the various ministries until elections in January. I'm not sure to what extent it can legislate, if it is allowed to legislate at all.

The US forces will still be there, as the most numerous and best armed security organization in Iraq. Mercenaries and contractors hired by the US will still be there. The people in charge of the interim government are from the same cliques that supplied members of the hand-picked IGC. Very little has changed in the actual balance of power in Iraq.

Cynthetiq · 06-29-2004, 12:04 PM

This is no different than any other "hand over" from any other ruling country... it's always a phase out over time. The British, Dutch, Spanish, US, have all done a phase out over time.

cthulu23 · 06-29-2004, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Iyad Akmush Kanum, 23, learnt the limits of sovereignty on Monday when US prosecutors refused to uphold an Iraqi judges' order acquitting him of attempted murder of coalition troops.

silent_jay · 06-30-2004, 05:02 AM

Doesn't sound very soverign to me

Charlatan · 06-30-2004, 05:46 AM

Give it time... transitions take time. I'm just glad the hand over happened.

We all need to be patient.

Is there a time table for the US handing over ultimate authority?

apeman · 06-30-2004, 06:05 AM

i agree it's not much sovereignty, but it's better than nothing

next big event will be the elections, whenever they are... next year sometime is it?

DelayedReaction · 06-30-2004, 09:08 AM

The US isn't really known for letting their troops be prosecuted by foreigners. Persecuted maybe, but not prosecuted.

It's a steady process. It took years for us to leave Japan, but they're now one of our closest allies.

wonderwench · 06-30-2004, 09:15 AM

A little historical perspective would not be amiss. Rebuilding a country takes time. Just ask Germany or Japan. The real test of sovereignity is in two parts: the scheduled elections in January 2005 to be followed by a final constitution later that year.

llama8 · 06-30-2004, 10:42 AM

Rome quite clearly wasn't built in a day so stop trying to rush everything.

I would much prefer to see the country take 50 years to rebuild and prosper to it's fullest as opposed to being rushed through in a couple of years and then collapse into civil war within the decade.

bodymassage3 · 06-30-2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by llama8
Rome quite clearly wasn't built in a day so stop trying to rush everything.

I would much prefer to see the country take 50 years to rebuild and prosper to it's fullest as opposed to being rushed through in a couple of years and then collapse into civil war within the decade.

Exactly.

brianna · 06-30-2004, 10:56 PM

of course it takes time and well it should -- but that doesn't justify insisting on calling iraq "sovereign", that's just manipulating the facts.

whocarz · 07-01-2004, 12:52 AM

It's so uplifting to see level headed people on this forum.

Jesus Pimp · 07-01-2004, 07:34 PM

Quote:

of course it takes time and well it should -- but that doesn't justify insisting on calling iraq "sovereign", that's just manipulating the facts.

06-29-2004, 06:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jesus Pimp The Original JizzSmacka	Why Iraq is not currently a sovereign nation 1) The Iraqi government will not be able to impose martial law in Iraq. The US can. 2) The CPA has signed a contract with Anham Joint Venture to be Iraq's only source of arms for its military over the next two years. See link above. 3) US troops are immune from prosecution by the Iraqi government. 4) The Iraqi military will still be under US command. Ditto intelligence services. When asked by John Warner if "military decisions continue to reside indefinitely in the control of the American commander," General Richard Myers, the Charmain of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said "Yes." 5) American rebuilding aid will be doled out and controlled by the Americans. (Same link as #4). The reconstruction aid approved for this year was $18.5 billion, and Juan Cole estimates the government's annual income at $20 billion, though I don't know what his source is for that. 6) The Iraqi government will run the police force "but in coordination with Centcom [the U.S. Central Command], because this is not a normal police situation." This according to Paul Wolfowitz. 7) Before getting the hell out of Dodge, Paul Bremer made a series of edicts that will stay in effect after the transition, as well as appointing Iraqis to high-level administrative positions. The decrees cover election, traffic, copyright, tax, business, and labor law among other things. (If you only click one link, let this be it) Basically, the government that is in place now is just a placeholder assigned with carrying on the day-to-day administrative duties of the various ministries until elections in January. I'm not sure to what extent it can legislate, if it is allowed to legislate at all. The US forces will still be there, as the most numerous and best armed security organization in Iraq. Mercenaries and contractors hired by the US will still be there. The people in charge of the interim government are from the same cliques that supplied members of the hand-picked IGC. Very little has changed in the actual balance of power in Iraq. __________________ Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

06-29-2004, 12:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	This is no different than any other "hand over" from any other ruling country... it's always a phase out over time. The British, Dutch, Spanish, US, have all done a phase out over time. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

06-30-2004, 05:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Doesn't sound very soverign to me __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

06-30-2004, 05:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Give it time... transitions take time. I'm just glad the hand over happened. We all need to be patient. Is there a time table for the US handing over ultimate authority? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-30-2004, 06:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
apeman Wah Location: NZ	i agree it's not much sovereignty, but it's better than nothing next big event will be the elections, whenever they are... next year sometime is it? __________________ pain is inevitable but misery is optional - stick a geranium in your hat and be happy

06-30-2004, 09:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
DelayedReaction BFG Builder Location: University of Maryland	The US isn't really known for letting their troops be prosecuted by foreigners. Persecuted maybe, but not prosecuted. It's a steady process. It took years for us to leave Japan, but they're now one of our closest allies. __________________ If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

06-30-2004, 09:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
wonderwench Banned	A little historical perspective would not be amiss. Rebuilding a country takes time. Just ask Germany or Japan. The real test of sovereignity is in two parts: the scheduled elections in January 2005 to be followed by a final constitution later that year.

06-30-2004, 10:42 AM	#9 (permalink)
llama8 Crazy Location: Leicester, UK	Rome quite clearly wasn't built in a day so stop trying to rush everything. I would much prefer to see the country take 50 years to rebuild and prosper to it's fullest as opposed to being rushed through in a couple of years and then collapse into civil war within the decade.

06-30-2004, 10:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
brianna Addict Location: nyc	of course it takes time and well it should -- but that doesn't justify insisting on calling iraq "sovereign", that's just manipulating the facts.

07-01-2004, 12:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	It's so uplifting to see level headed people on this forum. __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly