Who's Going to Win the Canadian Prime Minister Election
 

Who do you feel will win the election, myself I'm still undecided, I have voted Liberal in the past but don't consider myself to be a Paul Martin Liberal, so I'm really not sure.

discuss.

Here's a link to the CBC story:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/05/23...elxncall040523

I think that Paul Martin will win atleast a minority government which will be unfortunate considering that Canadians (especially Ontarians) would rather reward corruption than to instill change.

However, since the new Liberal premier unveiled his budget this week which went against everything he promised in his election platform, (LIAR) this may cost the federal Liberals. And Quebec is fed up with the Liberals which will play out well for the Bloc. (I guess pumping 40 billion dollars into Quebec over the last 40 years wasn't such a great investment afterall)

The only way the Liberals will lose is if the mindset of eastern Canada changes regarding "the opposition" to "the governing party" isn't worthy of running the country. Until then, the corruption will continue, the rich will get richer, scandal upon scandal will be ongoing, taxes will rise, the heathcare system will continue to fall apart, the lies will continue and on and on and on.

I was no fan of Mulroney, but the absolute corruption of the last 10 years by the Liberal's makes the corruption of the Conservatives look amateurish by comparison.

Will Canadians (eastern Canada)remain bleeting, mindless sheep or will they finally grow some balls and take a stand and put someone in power whose purported best interests is for all Canadians, or just a select few? We will see June 28th.

So wait... Canada doesn't have set election times? Like every 4 years as we have here in the States?

I'm confused.

And here I thought I was doing well with my Canadian knowledge :(

The current prime minister has to call an election. When he or she decides when the best time is, they formally ask the governer general (representative of the crown) for "permission".

It's all pomp...

So he/she can do this whenever he/she (who am I kidding, he..) wants? What if he doesn't want to give it up? What if he's like a 4 year old and his toy?

So a week after this guy is elected, he can say "Alright that election was kinda fun, lets have another!"

And the crown? England? I thought yall were done with those fools. No offense to our English friends on the board, I just wanted to say "those fools."

Sounds like pomp for sure. If you take out the "m" and replace it with an "o".

Well he or she has to call it after four years, but they can call it early if they feel the position is good

We never really split completely. We never had a problem with England and the crown, and when we split, it was very amicable ;)
The Governer General is still technically the head of the Military, and calls Parliament into session, and has the speech from the crown. The Commonwealth is rife with such traditions.. Personally I'm a big fan of the monarchy, and monarchisms in general.. I kinda like the pomp (m, not o for me ;) )

I thought Martin was just elected recently? Within the past year anyway?

Ack, so much to learn..

He wasn't elected by the general populous, but rather by delegates at a Liberal convention because former Prime Minister Chretien stepped down before his term ended. So that makes him an unelected Prime Minister riding out the term of the former PM.

Ahhh I see... I sadly don't know much at all about Canadian politics.

Thats okay.. the Electoral college process makes my eyes bleed ;)

We have had a female Prime Minister...well for a couple of months...but we had one!

let's not bring up Kim Campbell, that was a dark time

Hmmm...the E.C. is introductory level compared to trying to understand the Primaries!

Between Conventions and Caucuses, Delegates, Super-Delegates, Pledged or unpledged, etc, etc, it is a real mess.

And not to forget, she was an " unelected" prime minister much like Paul Martin is currently.

I'm sure the liberals will win, but I'm voting conservative.

Think it'll be a tightly contested race? I'm overseas and wondering if I should risk awakening the slumbering tax-collectors to my existence by registering for an absentee ballot...

Go Green.
 

Screw the so called big parties. I'm voting Green.... well... I would if I could. My Canadian Citizenship is not through yet (still a landed immigrant) ;)

Check out thier site.

I predict that Martin will win a minority government and that the NDP will hold the balance of power.

We are in for bad days if the Conservatives under Harper win... while many in Canada would welcome their brand of fiscal conservatism the vast majority would not stand for their social conservatism...

Here is an interesting scenario... The Liberals lose many seats across the board giving the Bloc a minority with either an NDP or Liberal backing them... No likely but certainly possible.

I'm very undecided about this election, and even about who I will vote for. On one hand, the Liberals are so very very corrupt, although they HAVE paid down the debt a great deal....

on the other hand, the Conservatives' platform resembles someone running for students council... they promise tax breaks, AND increased funding?? I was under the impression those things were on the opposite ends of a scale.

I might end up voting Independant, although I dont even think there is one running in my riding :(...

I have so very much to learn about my candidates and their parties in the coming month

All I want is some accountability, decent representation and less wasted dollars (my taxes). Sadly, we haven't had this for many years.

It's a disturbing time, with no candidate really catching anyone's eye, they are just all so bad, it could be the year to not vote at all, of course then I have no right to complain, oh the quagmire

What you've just described (in terms of a Martin minority with the NDP) is what I am fervently hoping will happen. With Liberal support in the polls falling, and Conservative support rising, I'm beginning to get a little worried about the Conservatives overtaking the Liberals.... they say they've changed, but I can remember their ultra-conservative stance on social issues during their short-lived stunt as the Canadian Alliance.

In my opinion, they will need to work *very* hard to erase that image to appeal more to the fiscal conservatives who have more moderate views on social issues.

I really don't want the Conservatives to win this. Normally I would vote for the Liberals, but after the recent scandals, they just don't deserve my vote. I'll probably end up voting for the NDP or the Bloc :/

It's a really depressing notion that one would vote for the NDP or Bloc when one party is ready to start writing blank cheques to cure all of societies woes without any regard for fiscal responsibility while the other will never be content until Quebec has achieved sovereignty at a cost and continued cost to Canada. Don't forget, Quebec wants to be seperate from Canada but still wants to enjoy all the perks it currently does.

But then what is one to do. After a decade of Conservative corruption and another decade of ultimate Liberal corruption, the bottom line is the taxpayer who continually gets screwed. I suppose what stings the most is that everyday common people have given up which is unfortunate since it is they who hold the power. Politicians see the majority of people don't care what they do, so in true form of human nature, why would they go out of their way to give a shit about the people when the majority of people don't give a shit themselves?

The Liberals are, unfortunately, tired and corrupt. The Conservatives are just...well Harper scares me. The NDP...I might vote for them if there weren't so many weirdos in the party. The Green Party is probably how I'll vote, even though they really haven't got much of a hope of gaining any serious support. Although their popularity is growing, so maybe someday soon...

...and the Green Party isn't full of weirdos? Please, it is way more fringe than the NDP.

I agree with you though that the Conservatives "scare" me. I wouldn't trust Harper to babysit my children let alone run the country.

Harper and the Conservatives don't scare me. I'm voting for them for the only reason that this country desperately needs change, if only for one term.

I can't even fathom anyone who has keep even somewhat abreast of the never ending scandals of the Liberals that are considering voting for them. To me it is as plain as supporting and rewarding corruption. The U.S has its 'War on Terror.' Canada needs a 'War on Corruption.'

But seeing as most people view any type of change as to much of a risk, albeit as slight that the change would be, it is always better to run around like Chicken Little screaming the "sky is falling" than to embrace change as a new beginning other than looking as if it is a step backwards. That's one thing I've always admired about my American neighbours to the south. They embrace change in all facets of life, not run away from it.

Harper and Co. can do a lot of damage in one term. I put scare in quotes because I wouldn't say they actually cause me to be afraid rather I would say that they worry me.

I am very familiar with their brand of fiscal conservatism... we just went through several years of the Harris Conservatives. While I didn't agree with their way of doing things, I could live with that...

What I can't live with is their social conservatism, and I don't think a large majority of Canadians want it either.

I just hope people don't vote Conservative for a "change" because they are going to be in for a shock when they see what they voted into power...

I think I detect Western Canadian angst.

The lack of a credible alternative is a problem.

Which is why personally I think a minority government situation would be best. I'd prefer an NDP/Conservative minority government, but it probably won't happen: it would give both other national parties a taste of running a country, and they could keep each other's excesses in check.

NDP/Liberal would do.

However, I simply don't trust Reform 3.0. They sound and act like people who are absolutely convinced that they are right.

Strangely, the fact that Liberal appointees are finding corruption makes me happy they appointed non-idiots. The gun registry looks like the biggest boondaggle: I know someone working on the project, and the people who where working on it before fucked it up badly.

And therein lies the problem. The Reform party of Canada was founded on the basis of Western power: it was a party only slightly less regional than the Bloc Quebecois in ideology. The two renamings since then have not convinced me they have changed their stripes.

Which is why an NDP/Conservative minorty government would be my dream government. They would have to compromise on almost everything, both sides would get a pile of experience running the country, and the country could see more of their "true" stripes. If things went badly, they could hit the big reset button.

You make a point Yakk.

4 weeks to go 'til the election. I'll just fucking die if the Liberals win a majority. Anybody but,... I just can't afford it anymore.

I'm still undecided and confused, I hate this election it's like you want the lesser of the evils, but all these guys are well not evil but shady.

I found out I have no independant running in my area, Liberal, NDP, and Conservatives. Maybe I'll just throw the party names into a hat and decide that way. Who knows, what a month it will be and the headache is already starting.

If you are feeling apathetic, but don't want to be, here is a simple solution.

Look up when the local all-candidates debate is going to occur. Show up.

Vote for the person who has the best presence at the debate. Or pick another criteria, like the one who attacks the other candidates the least (keep score, heh).

Harper, will probably be a minority government but he will doe well. The hard part will be trying not to resort to "Reform" beliefs.

I think I'll do that, I like the idea.

First of all, Quebec held two referendums on separation and "NO" won twice. What does that tell you about Quebec's desires concerning Canada? That's right: THE PEOPLE OF QUEBEC DO NOT WANT TO SEPARATE. Furthermore, in light of the law passed after the second referendum, Quebec can no longer separate through this method even if the "YES" side won. This is a dead issue. Get over it.

It's always been a battle between the Liberals and the Bloc in Quebec for decades. The only reason I see for the Bloc to win is if the quebecois sense a threat to their culture or status. I personally don't see such a threat, therefore I think the Liberals will win here once again.

On the national scale, I see a definite chance for Conservative minority, although I don't wish for it. I predict a Liberal majority, with Conservative/Bloc minority.

Someone at work's prediction:

In order:
Liberal
Conservative
Bloc
NDP

Nobody has enough seats to form a majority government.

Conservative+Bloc > Liberal+NDP

It starts out with the Liberals being asked to form a government. They fail a vote of non-confidence (NDP+Liberal being not enough to hold confidence).

It being right after an election, the GG asks the Conservatives to form a government. They form a minority government with the Bloc.

The Bloc and Reform proceed to decrease federal power, and increase provincial power. Amoung other things they rewrite the transfer payment calculations to be less punative about natural resource extraction. They possibly also scrap official billingualism, and rewrite the rules for Quebec seperation (to make it easier).

After a half-dozen months, there is a falling out, a vote of non-confidence occurs, and we get another election.

Not my theory, but worth writing up. =)

Sounds entirely possible, and very scary

Just can't see it happening...

Sure they share a more power to the provinces attitude but...

The Bloc is a left of centre party created with the purpose of tearing Quebec out of Canada.

1) Could the Bloc swallow the Conservative's more odious right wing agenda?
2) Who, anywhere outside of Quebec, would respect a federalist party that is willing to share power with a succesionist party? I don't think it would go over very well back home in Alberta.

While I could see the Bloc agreeing to support the Conservatives on certain initiatives they will not form a government together. The Cabinet would neccessarily be made up of both Bloc and Conservative ministers... never going to happen.

On a more^H^H^H^H^H less serious note:
http://politicswatch.com/VoteSelectorQuiz2004.html

Determine your Vote using a simple web voting app! Don't worry about complex issues, just answer yes and no! =)

http://www.selectsmart.com/PoliticsWatch/layton.jpg
Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
http://www.selectsmart.com/PoliticsWatch/duceppe.jpg
Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 71)

http://www.selectsmart.com/PoliticsWatch/martin.jpg Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 42)

http://www.selectsmart.com/PoliticsWatch/harper.jpg Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 17)

The only surprise for me is that the Bloc is so left of centre... which just underlines why I don't think the Bloc and the Conservatives will be able to work together over any period of time...

Who cares?

A shining example to one and all on how to post on the TFP. Bravo, my firend, bravo.

I took the quiz and came back the EXACT opposite of Charlatan :)

# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 77)
# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 69)

I ran into one of those quote pages, and I decided to point out precicely why I am uncomfortable with Harper becoming PM of Canada.

From good old Preston Manning's mouth: (he founded Reform 1.0 as a split-off of the old PC party)
Former Reform Party founder and leader Preston Manning on Stephen Harper in his memoirs.

The idea that you know more than simply everyone else is a dangerous one. And when you have former PC-party leaders saying that a Liberal is the better choice...

Former Progressive Conservative leader Joe Clark, April 26th 2004, accusing Conservative Leader Stephen Harper of harbouring a "hidden" agenda. Reported in the Globe and Mail.

Now, to some who consider the PC's and the Liberals to be indistinguishable, and want a hard-core Conservative party, such a condemnation is good for Harper. But, to most people, it should highlight exactly how much the Conservative party is Reform 3.0, and not the party which is dismantled and name it stole.

He's a regionalist:
Stephen Harper, now leader of the Conservative Party, in "It is time to seek a new relationship with Canada," December 12th, 2000.

The apparatus of the Reform party is full of crackpots:
Stephen Harper endorsing Calgary West Conservative MP Rob Anders, who in 2001 called Nelson Mandela "a Communist and terrorist."

While they have played "whack a mole" whenever someone said something that got on the news, this sort of thing makes me worried.

Harper considers people who don't support him ... well, I'll let his own words explain it:
Conservative leader Stephen Harper, in Report Newsmagazine, 2001.

When you explain away people who don't support you by catagorizing them, then dismissing them, you raise my alarm bells.

Quotes from http://www.intheirownwords.ca/harper.php

For a more intense discussion and description of Canadian politics, read
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/33416
there are a few good, long posts, that describe the political map of Canada quite well.

the thread contains alot of discussion and clarification and the like about the post.

I've got to agree with OFKU0 here. Voting for the Liberals in light of the recent scandals is just telling them that it's ok to rape us while you reward your buddies. The way they've handled this election call and it's timing with the scandal is scandolus in itself. 'Oh don't worry about the scandal at the moment...just vote us back in for now and we'll sort all that out later...' Talk about scary, Liberals pissing away my money is scary.

While I may not agree with the Conservative party all the time, I find that for the most part I agree with them one hell of a lot more than the Liberals and certainly waaay more than the NDP. Just look to at what they've done for Saskatchewan to see what an NDP government can do.

Wow, I did that test and actually got a zero for Harper. Not that that surprises me, really. If Harper wins this election then I'm getting out of Canada as soon as I possibly can.

heh, I got 100 for Harper
81 for Martin
46 for Gilles Duceppe
31 for Layton
*wonders why the poll didn't ask if you are in favour of large sums of cash being given away to ad firms*


When your toilet is full of shit, you flush it.

What I find interesting is that you scored 100 for BOTH Harper and Martin... Liberals and Conservatives aren't that far apart... not that I find that surprising.

BTW, Americans who take that quiz might find it funny.

The right wing party wants to add in some federal government support for private-industry health care. =)

I can understand your opinion but this makes me feel more uncomfortable.

http://paulmartintime.ca/cat_mediacoverage.html

?

While I do know that the Conservative Party of Canada has no party platform on which to run, I would pretty much assume they would be pro-missile defence.

A speech by what I think is a Conservative MP:
http://www.conservatives.com/news/ar...194&speeches=1
which is pretty pro-missile defence.

Paul Martin is pro misile defence.

The only major party that is seriously anti missile defence is the NDP I think? Well, the Bloc might be, and the Greens are probably against it. And the pot party has only 2 things on their platform...

The Conservatives are all about making nice with the US so I would only imagine (since they don't have a platform) and given their desire to join the fray in Iraq and their pro-militarization stance in general that they would do just about whatever Uncle Sam asks regarding Missle Defence.

In my opinion this isn't getting enough play. Missle defence is a big waste of taxpayer money if I ever saw one. Trillions of dollars to be committed and they haven't proved it works let alone what having the sheild would do to global politics.

Well that in itself is a ridiculous statement. But then look at the Fiberals.They might as well not have a platform at all since everything they promise is bullshit, lies and excuses.

By the way, did you know that when Jean Chretien came into power, the only thing different between the Tory blue book and the Grit red book was the cover and I believe 32 pages of text. That's right.The other couple hundred pages were the Tory platform that the Liberals adopted. Don't believe me though, look it up.

Finally, tune into CBC and you will see pundits on a daily basis speaking of the Liberals grasping at straws basically running on the Tory platform to once again suck in Canadians for the 4th kick in the head.

And the Conservatives have no platform,...Yesssh. If they don't then the Liberals certainly don't either.

I meant they had not policy convention. They don't have policies on most issues (aka, a platform), because they never got around to decide, as a party, what their policies are.

There are a few de-facto policies, but no set of positions that I could actually read and report back on.

I understand. Over the next 3 weeks I'm sure all the parties will be letting loose on every issue. It's never good for anyone (or political party) to blow ones load to soon.

You can't really compare the Progressive Conservative to party the Conservative party. Taking the Progressive out of their name should give you a very big clue why there is a difference...

Cheryl Gallant is making things harder on Harper with comments like this:
here's the rest of the story:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...String;@f6ddd9

Really though politicians putting their foots in their mouths how odd.

And she is my MP, thank god I didn't vote the useless thing in, I only hope that she doesn't win a second term, but then again there isn't much better out there.

Well, I should start with the fact that I am a conservative American (some of you are going to stop reading right now ;) ) Anyways I took your test, and although I had no idea about some questions (how many Annual holidays do you get in the first place??), a lot of the issues we face here in America. Anyways, this was just for fun, I've been very interested in the Canada and Canada/America threads on this board. I'm from Minnesota and travel to your country usually once/twice a summer.

Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 39)
Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 22)
Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 9)

Don't flame me, I'm very fiscally conservative ;)

What's amazing is that in the last election, saying things like this lost Stockwell Day the election. This is getting very little play.


It just convinces me more and more that the media do not have any agenda (left or right) but rather they pick up a story and run with it... Last election the story was what an idiot Stockwell Day was... This time it is the "Great Liberal" collapse. The end result is that we end up talking about "the story" and rarely about this "issues".

That's really unfortunate.

This comment by Ms. Gallant has hardly any airplay, even in her constiuency, which is where I live.

I tried to have her help me solve a work related problem a few months ago (I was working as an intern for the government), and all that I got was a personal assistant who had her head up her ass. The assistant told me she would call me back in an hour, and that was 4 or 5 months ago.

I hope people remember what happened the last time Gallant won the riding where I live, AECL laid off hundreds of people, and they tried to privatize the supply chain for the CF.

I still don't know who I'm going to vote for but Alliance Conservative whatever they are calling themselves they will never get my vote.

You are right, the politician putting their foot in their mouth usually ends up being the story instead of the issues that concern people, but that is the world of politics.

I've watched quite a few interviews with Liberal, Conservative, and NDP candidates all in the same place, and my god they are children. They piss and moan and talk over each other, and finally when a question is about to be answered all 3 will start arguing, so you never get to here the answer. Maybe we should let children campaign because that is all the candidates are.

I am voting for Paul Martin.

Note, I said I am voting for Paul Martin, not the liberals.

Why?

Cause I think he has done a damn fine job of running the economy for the last 10 years. He has balanced the budget year after year after 8 years of record breaking deficits with the conservatives (exactly where did that money go??)

He has paid down the debt and will continue to do so.

Unemployment is good, inflation is in check.

You don't screw with a sound economy as far as I am concerned AND I don't like Harper's conservative stance on social issues one bit.

The man (Harper) is doing everything he can to hide his social agenda. Plus, I would like to know how he (Harper) plans to increase spending, decrease taxes, and balance the budget?

Martin's biggest gaff to date - calling an election in re-run season. Seriously, This hour has 22 minutes would have skewered Stephen Harper, but they can't because they aren't filming right now. Just like last time when they went at Stockwell Day mercilessly. First it was the internet pole to get him to change his name to Doris, then there was the lampooning his jet ski appearance, then the niagara river thing.

22 minutes made Day and the CA look like a bunch of fools.

So, a friend of mine looked into some election predictions. Note that with 27% of the electorate "may change their minds before election day", these numbers are not set in stone....

The prediction was roughly the same number of seats for the liberals and the conservatives. The Bloc would get 55-odd and the NDP 28-odd.

This means the viable majorities would be:
Liberal+Conservative
Conservative+Bloc
Liberal+Bloc

The only one of these with any hope of working is Conservative+Bloc.

This then leads me to my prediction: the C+B party would proceed to move revenue and powers from the Federal government to the provinces. This is about the only thing both parties would agree on.

So, they would move lots of federal taxation to the provinces, remove transfer payments, and cut all strings attached to money.

They would probably also redo the entire equalization scheme.

Are you in Paul Martin's riding? If you're not, you're not voting for him, you're voting for your liberal candidate.

Pretty sure Day had a lot to do with making the CA look like fools. Harper is not Day, and This hour has 22 minutes, though a funny show, I don't believe that it seriously effects how educated voters would vote.

No, I am not in Paul Martin's riding, however, the leader of the party influences who one will vote for. In my case, I respect Paul Martin.

But I fear that his political legacy will be one of tragedy and bad timing. All his life he has strived to become Prime Minister something his father failed to achieve (also due to bad timing). He worked damn hard as finance minister and suffered under Chretien. If it wasn't for Martin, Chretien would have fallen flat on his face years ago. Now, Paul has the big chair and it looks like he is going to loose it thanks to Chretien. I guess Chretien got the last laugh after all.

I have to wonder if Martin looses this election if he will carry on as leader of the liberal party, or will he step down, or will the liberals pull out the long knives once again?

Who said anything about educated voters.

This election is a prime example of that. You have a majority of people jumping on the Conservative band wagon for no other reason than they think the conservatives are now going to win and they want to vote for the winning side.

6 mos. ago, the odds of the Conservatives winning this election were about the same as me going to the moon.

Now everyone wants to punish the liberals for adscam without thinking of the ramifications of voting for a far right party.

This is Mike Harris all over again... There is this uninformed jump to the Consercative bandwagon.

If voters (and I don't mean those who usually vote reform/alliance) actually asked themselves what they were looking for in a candidate they would find themselves agreeing with the platforms of either the Liberals or the NDP... instead, as usually, the "zietgeist" wins out.

Most are not making an informed choice. They are making an emotional one based on very little beyond -- I am mad at the Liberals or Someone else needs a turn...

Maybe but that's how it goes. Whether people are pissed off or want change is a good thing. It shows that Canadians actually have a heartbeat.

Face it. The Conservatives can do no worse than the Liberals. I can't understand why after countless scandals, people still gravitate to the Liberals.

Imagine if the electorate was responsible for their vote and every time the Liberals wasted billions of dollars, those who voted for them had to write a cheque to pay it back to the rest of Canadians regardless of their income bracket, payable in 30 days or you know what.. Hmmm,...wouldn't that be a thought. I would bet they wouldn't be in power long enough to cash the first series of cheques.

As for Mike Harris. Wait and see what Dolton McGuinty does in Ontario. He will make Mike Harris look like a genius. Funny to how this idiot has essential backed out of his education promises and yet not a peep from the teachers unions. Fucking stupid sheep. Just goes to show how stupid people support stupid people. Where is the outcry? Where are the protests? Oh forgot, its summer. Relaxation time for all the overpaid sloughs who actually give teaching a bad name.

They paid down 10% of the debt.

Do you have any clue how hard that was? 50 billion fewer dollars that Canada doesn't owe.

Just the interest on that (at, say , 3%) is over a billion dollars every single year from now until eternity.

Their plans for the future involve continueing to pay down the debt while ramping up spending. This is a smart plan.

The NDP want to stop paying off the debt.

The Conservatives want to go deeper into debt.

The Bloc want to say "neener neener".

There is about half-a-trillion more dollars to go on the Federal debt. That's 15-37 billion dollars a year we are paying for past government's fixcal idiocy.
http://www.ppforum.ca/ow/ow_p_11_25_2002.htm

Or how about fixing social security? Unlike the US, our CPP has balanced books.

But, they misspent about 3 billion total dollars in 10 years. This is a bad thing. The good things they did shouldn't be ignored, especially good things that other parties have no plans to continue.

If either the NDP or the Conservative party where planning on being fiscally responsible, that would be one thing. But, they plan on bread and circuses.

Yakk,

Excellent point.

To me, the debt / deficit is one of the most important things that had to be addressed when the liberals took power and they did what they said they were going to do.

Mulroney and company ran record deficits year after year after year. They made deficit financing an art form.

I believe the annual federal budget is around 170 billion dollars.

Over the last 10 years, that then translates into 1.7 trillion dollars of which the liberals wasted 3 or 4 billion. As a percent, that' s 0.17 %.

Let's put it in perspective. That's like if I give you $100,000.00 to watch and you give me back everything except 170 dollars. Am I supposed to worry about 170 dollars to the point of hating your guts??

I trust Paul Martin to run the economy like a clock. I don't trust Stephen Harper one little bit.

Actually, McGuinty (as much as I don't like the guy) did deliver on his promise to improve education with his last budget.

If I recall properly, they are going to have some kind of specialist education consultant in every school, and they have pegged the maximum class size at 20.

When i was in primary school, the classes were usually 32 to 34 students. One year I remember 37.

Teachers have it made in the shade as far as I am concerned. They essentially work 10 months of the year and collect a pretty good salary.

Well if you were informed, you would know that the MeGuinty government cannot possibly have 20 students in the classroom before 2006 if ever. That comes from the Meguinty camp.

He has also stated that it will take until 2006 to put more funding into the classroom. Hmmm,...twinkle twinkle little star,...you know the rest.

As of last week he is stalling payments (promises again) to make sure proper transportation is in place for students. Well the first one out of the gates is the Catholic school boards (at least in eastern Ontario) who don't know how grade school kids will get to school or home because there is no money for buses.

Is this where we blame Mike Harris? Hmmm,..how many billions of dollars was lost to Ontario because of Sars. Did the federal gov't help,..Nope. But as soon as a Liberal Premier was in place they earmarked money. Now THAT is respecting the public at large isn't it? Fucking fucking assholes. Thats nice. People suffer and the Liberal fuckwads play politics. Very nice. And you are scared of Stephen Harper,... BOOO.

And finally, c'mon guys. Do you really believe only 3 billion went missing federally. The gun Registery is at 2 billion alone. HRDC ring a bell.

If I were a scam artist I would watch very closely election night to see where the predominant Liberal ridings are. Actually, I don't even have to be a scam artist, just a general contractor. Then I would know where to target people who don't care about being lied to, ripped off or being made fools of. Obviously this is a goldmine where an insult is meet with a welcoming hand. And I wouldn't even have to give any party affiliation or reasoning of any sort to go in for the kill, and why should I. Obviously these people reward corruption so why would I tell them any different.

My prediction:

The Conservatives win the greatest number of seats of any party, but the Liberals form a coalition government with the NDP and Bloc with Martin as PM.

Personally, I'm voting Green.

the executive summary:

Yes, the liberal's are corrupt and lie. But the conservatives haven't been in power for ages. Give them a decade in government, and see what happens.

The conservatives have promised to cut social programs, massively raise spending on health military and law enforcement, and cut taxes. The only one of these you can be sure of is the promise to cut social programs. The other two can only both be true if they run a huge deficit. Therefore the conservatives are either liars or irresponsible.

The Conservative's official party stance on things that matter to me like Marijuana decriminalization, and gay marriage, is mainly worrisome because they promise a free vote, and most of their MPs (especially in the west) tend to the extreme right on social issues. I think PM is correct in leaving gay marriage to the charter of human rights since it doesn't really affect anyone but gay couples who want to get married.

I think the conservatives (probably the Bloc too) are on the right track with proposed changes to the health act. It's time for fundamental changes to the way healthcare is run - more money isn't the solution. Devolution of power to the provinces seems wise in many cases.

I like the way the Liberals are leaning in terms of the new deal for cities, though we'll have to wait until after the election to see what they really mean.

I'd like to vote Green (young blood, new ideas, technology savvy, fiscally conservative, socially liberal) but I think this time around the Liberals are going to get my vote. I'm going to hope and pray for a liberal minority government.

Giving the Liberals a minority goverment is the safer way to send a message.

Regardless of whether it is a C or Lib minority I suspect there will be another election call by spring or fall 2005 at the latest.

Right now, it's not looking good for the liberals.

Basically, a vote for the NDP, or the Green Party is a vote for Stephen Harper and the Canadian neo-cons.

Well I'm going to vote in a couple of hours still undecided.

I might just use my vote to vote for nobody. None of the parties really appeal to me and they are all just so damned shady, who knows.

If I vote for no one and Harper wins well then we're all screwed, Martin isn't the greatest but better than Harper, Layton needs to lose the mustache really bad it makes him look like he should be in porn.

It's going to be a rough day, what to do, what to do.

I disagree - it's a riding by riding thing. I'm voting Green because in my riding the Conservative is going to win by a landslide anyway. If things were looking to be closer, I might vote Liberal.

Everyone needs to look at their situation riding by riding and vote accordingly.

Facial hair as reason for political choice... great motivation.

Well, I just voted.

Did my civic duty.

cheers.

Liberals leading in the Maritimes by a 2-1 margin over the NDP and Conservatives. No big surprise. We'll see how they do in Quebec and Ontario, the king making provinces.

Looks like ONtario went Liberal and they get a minority government.