Ashcroft "I don't want to hear about it, anymore".
 

During the 9/11 hearings today, I actually heard the director of the F.B.I. say that he told Mr. Ashcroft "The C.I.A. is very concerned about a major terrorist attack within the United States", in at least two different meetings. He stopped telling him about it after Ashcroft told him he didn't want to hear it anymore.Ashcroft actually ignored the information.

I really hope I was hearing things and someone will correct me, this cannot be what I heard.

Can it?

We found their upcoming sacrificial lamb.

I dont like Ashcroft... he's the main guy who's been on my shitlist in the Bush administration.

But..

Hindsight is 20/20. And lets face it being election year they dont want to find out how to prevent further attacks but a scapegoat so either the dems or reps can throw mud blaming the other party. There's a reason this waited until 04 when the attacked happened in 01.

To both republicans and democrats, read up on Adm. Kimmel... burned at the stake after Pearl... later accepted that even with all the information given he wasnt at fault for the attack.

I wouldn't mind Ashcroft being a scapegoat, as long as he isn't replaced with someone even more crazy.. like Reno. :D

People have hated Ashcroft for years, why didn't we go after
him full force before!

If your talking about former Director Pickard's statement your ears have no problems

You can find an entire transcript at the Washington Post, but here's the relevant text.


There's also a Justice Dept. document that cites reducing gun violence and combating drug trafficking as their top priorities. Pickard says earlier that his request for additional counter-terrorism funds was denied, appealed and denied again by Ashcroft.

I think you guys are absolutely right that someone is going to have to be sacrificed. However, why Ashcroft? Why not Ms. Rice?

I would think it would be toss-up between the two.

interesting thought about scapegoats....

Isn't it true that a ship's captain is responsible for whatever happens on the ship? even if he's sleeping in his cabin when it hits the iceberg.......

too bad that doesn't happen in politics.....

Ashcroft instead of Rice for several reasons.
Ashcroft is a lightning rod. And the only people who will be upset that his is gone are the way, way far right loonies.

Lose Rice and you lose half the administrations diversity. Reaction to her testimony can be seen as divided.
Finally, there isn't a papertrail behind her quite like there is behind Asscroft. She can weasely around her record, he can't. He has plenty of documentation of not just ignoring terrorism by drastically slashing the budgets for it up to even the week of 9/11. There is nothing in the world that can save him from that record.

Like dimbulb said, and like McCain said earlier today:
Something about a navy boat that ran aground while the captain was asleep. it wasn't the Captains fault but he was the first one tossed off when the axe came down.
Funny how McCain keeps making these statements, it's almost like he not-so-secretly wants to see Bush tossed out on his ear.

On one hand, I despise the Bush admininstration for putting Ashcroft into a position of power. On the other hand, I like the thought that the Bush administration might destroy Ashcroft's present and future political career.

I'm going to label this one a draw for Bush.

funny thing is i just did a big essay o him in class today :) another thing like this was the sinking of the USS indiana (indianapolis not sure which) which was carying the atomic bombs their mission was a secrit so they were not allowed to contact anyone on the radio and they were sunk in shark waters and slowly eaten and at the push of the families that lost sons they charged him with not contacting the navy and sending out an SOS,

he eventually commited suicide because of the way he was blamed

just goes to show you skapegoats are very unfortunae individuals even if they do deserve it

I don't see how Ashcroft can ever live down the fact that he lost an election in 2000 to a guy who was not even alive. How is that for a vote of confidence.

Well, he sort of fits in with someone who couldn't win the popular vote ;)

I'm not an American but I will tell you one thing. If the 9/11 attacks occured in Canada and if Rice (again if she was Canadian) was called to an enquiry to answer for the governments actions, or misactions, I wouldn't be the only one pissed off at her pompous, arrogant attitude.

With all her smirking and smiling it seemed like she was at a bridal shower, not at a hearing as to why thousands of innocent people were killed. I'm a Canadian and my blood was ready to boil just watching her.

In the news here, Ashcroft is blaming Clinton. Clinton I feel could have done more but really, at least Clinton was diplomatic in his resolve. I was glad to see Bush rather than Gore but Bush is starting to worry the hell out of me with his red neck 'my way or the highway' attitude. I don't think the world is a better place since Bush came into office and I don't think it is getting any better.

After watching him speak tonight, I gotta say.......the statement made early in 2002 by a Canadian diplomat( who was summarily disciplined) was extremely accurate. Mr Bush is a Moron, and I can actually say that without exagerating.

McCain is as left as you can get while calling yourself a Republican. Not that there is much difference between the two parties anymore. :)

No shit?

Hmm.
McCain's 2002 voting ratings, Kerry's is in ( ) for comparison.

Americans for Democratic Action (liberal): 20 (85)
ACLU: 0 (60)
AFSCME (labor): 29 (88)
LCV (environmental): 41 (94)
Concord (pro-balanced budget): 95 (65)
National Taxpayer's Union (anti-tax): 75 (18)
Chamber of Commerce: 79 (55)
Christian Coalition: 79 (55)

McCain is a principled conservative. His kind is going out, he's along the same mold as Dick Armey and Bush1. "Conservative" leaders today are a hell of a lot different from what they were eight years ago.
I may not agree with most of what either of these men, or the others who used to serve in the legislature with McCain, but I can respect them. I can do that because I know they will always do what they believe is in the best interest of this country. I can get myself behind men like that despite our differences.
I can't say the same for the DeLay's and Bush2, and Santorum's.

Where do you get off saying McCain left? The guy is moderate-conservative. We need more Republicans like him. If there were, I wouldn't have felt the need to register democrat and to work so hard this election cycle to try and put balance back in the legislature.

Ok Superbelt fair enough, but what about the Feinsteins and Daschle's??? If anyting they are just as divisive and bi-partisan as the Delay's and Santorum (who despite being ultra-con in some eyes, is a decent man).

There ya go with others being decent men... others can as well.

As for scapegoats - yes its unfortunate many get blamed unfairly but in other cases we need that accountability.

Though we learn from mistakes and hindsight is 20/20, those in charge shouldn't get a free pass and should be questioned in the very least to see "what the fuck went wrong.'

I would have thought Ms. Rice would be prime for the block as she doesn't quite fit in, eh? I mean, Ashcroft comes from the same sort as the rest of the administration. Former governor, former member of Congress, very conservative, long history in government so on and so forth. I would have thought that Ms. Rice would be the better choice to cull from the herd so to speak, even if it meant losing diversity.

As for paper trail, well, that doesn't seem to bother most folks as long as a good spin is put on it. One of the big justifications for us not knowing what the hell was going on is the big miscommunication factor between the FBI and the CIA. I would imagine that's a pretty big part of Ms. Rice's job. I certainly could see the administration throwing Ms. Rice to the wolves over that.

Maybe I'm reading the whole thing wrong....

As for McCain, I think a lot of folks would cross the party line to vote for him. I know I would.

On the issue of Santorum, I guess we have very different views of what makes a person a "descent man". I think the reason I don't care for him is the thing where he can't keep his damn nose out of OTHER consenting adults' bedrooms.

Reminds me of that Ashcroft guy...

/tying an off-topic rant back into the topic with no one the wiser

Ashcroft is the sitting duck. It gives Ridge more power and gets rid of a public liability for the party. They'll dump all they can on him and he'll resign. Ridge will gain more power.

As for Rice, Bush needs her diversity to keep the voters. And she put on a good loyal show.

Unfortunately for those over at Bushrice04.org it won't happen ever.

Well done gentlemen. I've gotta say that was one of the best political threads that I've read in a long time. It stayed on topic, no flaming and facts were presented along with the rhetoric. Congratulations, you guys really can have a civil discussion in politics.

My $.02 is not really required here, as you guys have pretty much covered it, but here it is anyway. Ashcroft is toast. No two ways about it. He was a political liability, for the Bush Administration, since day one. Even conservatives fear him, and that will hamper Bush's re-election possibilities. Rice, on the other hand, is likable. She is benign, and to lose her...well, Teresa Kerry might as well start picking out the new White House drapes.

Someone's head is going to be served up when all of this is said and done. To offer up Ashcroft just kills two birds with one stone. Oh yeah...he's political toast now.

I am no fan of Daschle. He uses his position as a political crutch. Without his leadership position he would lose his senate seat. He makes decisions and votes according to what protects his seat, not the nation.
My favorite democrat is Nancy Pelosi :)
I am fine with Feinstein, though I don't always agree with all her positions, especially gun control. I think Feinstein genuinely is concerned with america's welfare. Feinstein doesn't deserve to be lumped in with DeLay. Daschle does though. DeLay is a power hungry ego-maniac. It is one thing to push party loyalty, but DeLay uses tactics and disciplinary measures that have him goose-stepping over anyone who doesn't tow the party line. that's wrong. DeLay is under investigation right now over misappropriation of political donations. So the jury is literally still out on him being a decent man.

Ashcroft can try to spin this record, but the media will flay him alive with all of this.
Among many other things:

-Countering Terrorism dropped from priority #1 effective per Attorney General Reno memo in 1998 to a priority not even in the top 12 per AG Ashcroft memo to budget heads. This is post 9/11 even
-AG Ashcroft rejected FBI request for $57.8 million for more counter-terrorism agents, intelligence researchers and language translators.
-AG Ashcroft in a letter to Budget Chief Daniels on Sept. 10, 2001, outlined AG requests for more funds. Not a single request for add-ons for counter-terrorism, but with a request for a reduction in grants to state and local governments for anti-terrorism.

Is it true that AShcroft tried to get Lady Justice to wear a bra?

It's more of a Burkah.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1788845.stm
And they cost $8,650

nm.

Why does Ashcroft need to be a scapegoat. Everything that haas happened the last 3+ years are all Clinton's fault. Just ask Bush, O'Rielly, Hannity or Rush

:lol:

Okay, I think that was sarcasm...

Actually, Jon Steward (Daily Show) had a unique viewpoint that the problems of the current administration go back farther than Clinton. The true cause of the Bush adminstration's problems is the Millard Fillmore adminstration of 1850-1853. That damn Fillmore is the reason for all of the current administrations woes.

DAMN YOU MILLARD FILLMORE !

Thanks for pointing this out. This is what I always want to say when people start on the "McCain for VP" or "I'm a liberal Democrat, but I'd vote for McCain" deal. Of course, I'm too lazy to do actual research...

I really respect McCain as a war hero, as an excellent legislator, and as a funny guy (ever see him on Saturday Night Live?). I'd rather have 51 McCains in the Senate then the 51 current republicans. But I'd much rather have 100 liberal democrats . :D

I always hated that bastard and now I know why!!












(jk!)

If there is going to be a scapegoat, and I am not sure that the Administration is willing to do that, it most likely will be Ashcroft. As has been said, he is a lightning rod and his political career is over once he is done being AG. Rice has a very nice future ahead of her if she so chooses, and the RNC would like to keep it that way. Highly-intelligent, well-spoken, politically savvy, female, African-American Repbulicans aren;t exactly a dime a dozen. Religious, conservative, white, male, lawyer, Republicans in the last few years of thier political life are a dime a dozen.

However, don't rule out Mr. Tennant or Mr.Mueller as sacraficial lamb.

Tennant, afterall, was a Clinton appointee.

Come to think of it, how does he still have his job?

Tenet never was on board with Bush. I think he has something on them and they know it. I see no other reason that they would leave him in that high position, not a clinton appointee. There were probrably a hundred people Bush and Cheney would rather see there.

Hell, because Tenet wouldn't go along with the lead up to Iraq War II Cheney had to set up his own special intelligence task force in the Pentagon to collect and distribute "evidence" they used.

Tenet has military records, arrest records, some kind of pictures or financial documents relating to either Bush or Cheney.

I don't think they can slime or set up Tenet. If they do he will retaliate. The CIA director is the last person you really want to piss off. Questionable history or otherwise.