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Why Americans Love America and Why Texans Love Texas
I wrote this last night after seeing The Alamo and it is just a summation of how I feel about my Home Country and my Home State, and how I think, a great deal of my fellow citizens feel as well. I hope you guys enjoy.
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I recall fondly studying Texas History in school, and wondering how sad kids in other states must be if and when, in the 7th grade, they had to study the history of Wisconsin, for example.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, because you're the Texan, but I was under the impression that the #1 reason Texas declared it's independence from Mexico was because of the issue of slavery. Mexico wasn't populating the area, and the Mexican government was fine with hoards of southern Americans to fill up the territory to fuel economic activity so long as they didn't hate on Mexico's control. When Mexico outlawed slavery, the Texas were all "WTF!" (due to the vast majority if southern slave-holders and the expansion of King Cotton into the west).
Thus Mexico fought to retain their territory, but it didn't work out so well (the battle at the Alamo occured during this time), and Texas knew damn well that it could not viably survive as a nation unto itself even if Mexico DID leave it alone, so it constantly begged the US to annex it. The USA was nervous to do so because they feared it would piss the Mexican gov't off to the maximum, but eventually went ahead with it anyway, which in turn triggered the Mexican-American War (where the US made off with a shitload more territory from Mexico). Does the Alamo film discuss any of this, or is it just about a bunch of white guys in a church shooting Mexicans? |
The US wasn't worried about fighting Mexico, it was worried about adding another slave state to the delicate balance at the time. Texas wasn't seeking annexation because it was worried about Mexico, but because it was flat broke. When Texas was annexed, it gave up parts of Oklahoma, N.Mexico, and Colorado in exchange for debt relief by the U.S. Yes, there were slaves in Texas, but not all that many of them compared to other Southern states, and it was not a primary issue in the Texas revolution.
I can't quote you sources off the top of my head, but I did make an "A" in History of Texas in college. I almost hope someone challenges me on this. |
Hey, I'll challenge you.
At least for the reason I'd like to see some sources; I can only imagine what a "History of Texas" course teaches Texans ;) |
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I suspect that Europeans see the entire USA the way that non-Texans see Texas. |
Oy, this is not really the direction I wanted to go with my "essay" I guess you would call it. I was more looking to the direction as to why Americans have extreme nationalism and why Texans have extreme stateism (I made that one up) at least in the eyes of the surrounding world. I hear a lot of people ask me why I'm so proud of Texas, I could never really answer it until now and that is outlined in my "essay".
Edit: redlemon, that was my point, both have parallels drawn and that was more the direction I wanted to go with this thread. Oh, and you don't sound like a dick, that's your opinion, I'm not personally hurt by it. |
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Yes, I found Texas to be a hell of a lot nicer than the NE. The weather (even in August), the open spaces, and most of all the people. In New England you wont see people walking down the street, and saying hello to complete strangers, here it's almost expected. I lived in South Texas where its a huge hispanic population, on easter/thanksgiving/july 4th/etc it's expected to go from house-to-house visiting all your friends families. Try showing up to someone elses house in the NE and they'd try to figure out wtf you're doing there. I'm constantly amazed at how people view Texas, just last week someone from out of state asked if I used to ride my horse to highschool. I dont care if you dont like Texans, just try actually living in a place for a few years before you pass judgement. |
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But, as he said, Quote:
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And the misguided notions Europeans have about America are as misguided as the notions that Yankees have about Texas. :) I'll have to get back to ya'll re: sources, but let me look through my library tonight. |
Oh, and I saw your point about that (addressed to redlemon) I'm not saying that all Americans love Texas, I was trying to use parallel sentence structure to say that Americans loved America and Texans loved both, sorry if that confused everyone.
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i love the history of texas i thought it had a lot of parrallels to the american revolution mostly because of the demegauge (sp) factor a few powerful people overruled the masses
also the annexation only happened when texas tried to become a eurpean colony to piss america off also the mexican american war happened because of a boundry dispute we thought the boundry was the rio grande and they thought it was somthing like the nachez i think, we put troops on the rio and mexico thought we were invading them and when they attacked we told the people that we were attacked unprovoked then we trounced all over them i don't think we have ever actually been affraid of mexico funny how this stuff works :thumbsup: nice "essay" by the way |
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I was just joshing you by the way in regards to challenging you--I'm more interested in reading the info you've got than making you prove your point. |
something official?
like an official analysis of the social context of pre-statehood Texas? hmm... doesn't seem very likely to me. |
i can back mine up from the baiely textbook called :the american pagaient"
i'm studying for my AP test so i have to know all kinds of useless stuff |
The river disputed was whether it was the Rio Nueces or Rio Grande that was the border.
There was no "dispute" though according to the treaty signed by Santa Anna himself. The treaty specifically stated the Rio Grande, him being pissed about the treaty later didnt give him the right to invade soverign soil of Texas or United States. Say what you will about the rest of the war and the massive landgrab that ensued, but the starting of the war was legit. |
FWIW, I thought Mexico also liked the idea of settlers in the Texas area because it helped in their fights against the indian tribes living there at the time.
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slightly (an understatement) biased, especially at the beginning, most of europe would love to disagree with the first few opening paragraphs. It could definatly do with less 'holier than thou' in places.
still, a good read none the less, and the responses from the americans on the board does help balance things out. |
There's a real problem with this essay from the very beginning.
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i'm with meepa: that article, archer, is a strange thing to write after seeing an alamo movie. the war was fought, not to preserve texas, but to *create* texas. and its creation was founded on the belief that use of slaves is perfectly decent way to grow cotton, that the law against poaching animals was unfair, and (more fairly), that santa ana was a terrible leader of mexico.
now, it's true that texas colonists had developed a sence of community separate from mexicans, for obvious cultural reasons. and you could point to the war for texas independance as being the event that defined the birth of 'texas' as we know it today--soon afterwards independence, the anglo government worked hard to boot out the tejano population out of 'their' land. for people that believe that independence is more important than morals, perhaps you could be proud of an event like this. |
also: the idea that america/texas are the only places where people have fought for their independance and created a properous society is completely false. all european countries, as some point in their history, fought for independence to create a prosperous country. germany fought off the roman empire and the segregation by the concert of europe. England fought for independence from the normans and eventually ruled the colonies of the world. Even the soviet union can be considered as a successful revolution to a new form of government, at least for the 40 years or so that it was a superpower. The only difference between these countries and the united states is that the those countries are past their peak of power, while the US has its decline to look forward to sometime in the future.
EDIT: I just noticed you said "no other nation had to fight for the existence of itself." You can't be serious?? Nearly every nation on the planet fought for independence! The only ones that didn't that come to mind are some of the recent european colonies that were more peacefully handed back their sovereignty. |
Texas, hmmm,
When i visited Texas a couple years back, I took a cab from the Airport and the cab driver says to me, "So where y'all frum??" I said, "Toronto, Canada" "Canada, huh, I guess it's cold up thar?", he says. "Can be in the winter", I say Pause, look in the rear view mirror at the danged furiner. "Ya'll got buzzards up in Canada?" I am thinking, "what the fuck is this fucking guy talking about" But I reply, "no, but we do have some pretty big crows I suppose" Another look of concern in the rear view mirror.... Then I saw what he was getting at. There was a dead cow at the side of the road and the buzzards were chowing down. "Well, alrightie, I am not in Kansas anymore" I am thinking. |
You dont think we get that elsewhere?
I was in Mass. visiting some relatives, and one of the kids friend come over to visit (mind you he's 20). Him: So you're from Texas 'eh? Me: Yeah. Him: So you got lots of cows over there 'eh? Me: Yeah, cows outnumber the people in the town I'm from. Him: So you have school over there? Me: (amazed)... you have school here? Him: Well just wonderin', dont get all defensive cowboy. Me: (bit my tongue) Him: So you ride horses to school? (actually serious) Me: (turning on the sarcasm) Yeah, we also have a tumbleweed problem on our football field. Him: Really? has anyone you known been killed in a duel (still serious)? Me: (still sarcastic) Yeah, just last week at high noon.... Yeah this went on for a couple hours.. dont assume everyone is like a taxi driver in this state. |
What's so bad about Wisconsin history ?
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Okay, it's been awhile, I know. Here is a link to primary source materials about Texas history on the internet:
http://home.austin.rr.com/rgriffin/texhisdocs.html This site presents a thorough, but relatively concise timeline: http://www.lsjunction.com/events/events.htm Yes, there's a link in there to an abolitionist tract making many of the same accusations about the Texas revolution being about slavery, but it is one of many, and the only one I found that mentions slavery used as a justification for war. I looked for, but could not find my old textbook that contained slave population statistics in Texas at the time. I just remember being taught and reading that Texas had far fewer slaves per capita than other states in the Confederacy, and so I seriously doubt that it had to do with the reasons for the revolution, though the existence of slaves did hinder and delay annexation by the U.S. The reasons for the revolution were similar to those of the American Revolution. There were significant cultural differences between the Mexicans and the Anglo settlers in Texas, and Mexico, and in particular Santa Anna were becoming more and more oppressive as they tried to rein in control over the large colony far removed from the capitol, and the people developing their seperate economy there. All new Texas immigrants were made to swear that they were Catholic, were given large tracts of land but had almost zero say in their government. Stephen F. Austin, one of the first and most influential "empresarios" in Texas was jailed in Mexico City when he tried to speak out against the Mexican government "reforms." When Santa Anna changed the boundaries of the Mexican states and made all of Texas part of Coauhiba, with a state capitol south of the Rio Grande, it was like the stamp act in Boston. Why is there Texas pride about this history? I know of no other single state that has defeated another nation in war, much less become a nation itself. Though there were early talks between Houston and his friend, Andrew Jackson, then the president about annexation from the beginning, when it became clear that the time was not right, Texas governed itself. I've seen the plaque in London on the site of the Republic of Texas embassy to Great Britain. There were also embassies in France and Belgium, I think. Sam Houston, who had lived for years with Indians in the East, had very good relations with the Texas Indians. Mirabeau B. Lamar, the 2nd president, while he brought war with the Indians, established a public school system more advanced than that of the U.S. during that time. Yeah, Texans think their star is bigger than those of other states, but there are good reasons for it. P.S. Because I brought it up, here is a brief history of Wisconsin: Quote:
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Why are people patriotic?
Could it be... perhaps... because they are indoctrinated from birth? |
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