The future of America (Immigration Article)
 

As the writer states, it's not about race, it's about too many people for resources.

It's also about immigrants who do NOT want to become American, but who want to carve out little chunks of American to become the new *insert country here*.

Europe is finally starting to get a clue that their very national identities are at risk.

I hope we do too before it's too late (but I'm not hopeful).


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LINK

What is America's Dangerous Future?

Exclusive commentary by Frosty Wooldridge


Mar 11, 2004


In tomorrow's America of suffocating political correctness and clashing cultures, unrestricted immigration will prove a merciless weapon of war. It's importing conflicting languages, barbaric rituals, deadly diseases like tuberculosis, cultural antagonisms and loss of a cohesive national identity. California is our national harbinger of things to come. It is called Third World Momentum.

The Roman Empire fell to immigration of the Vandals. Likewise, Celtic Britain, Germany's Prussia and Serbian Kosovo.

I traveled to Los Angeles recently. I felt like a stranger in my own country as few spoke English. Whole areas have been turned into city-states of foreigners where Americans are not welcome. I might as well have been in China, Korea, Mexico or Bangladesh. All businesses carried their own languages. One store near Garden Grove in Los Angeles, Aztlan Gallery, featured anti American T-shirts, 'DECOLONIZE: UNITED STATES OF AZTLAN' and 'GO BACK HOME GRINGOS'. The voting ballot offered 20 languages on it for the governor recall election. Whose country is this, anyway?

What is America’s dangerous future? Where once immigration furnished men and women for building a nation, today, illegal and unrestricted mass immigration make a few wealthy at the expense of American citizens. Our own corporations are 'outsourcing' and ‘offshoring’ jobs to Third World countries--thus leaving American citizens in unemployment lines. Honored meat packing companies that were built by Americans--bus illegal immigrants from Texas into food processing plants in Austin, Minnesota. Along with their cheap labor come drugs, TB, Leprosy and honor killings. Austin's schools struggle with foreign languages and Austin kids suffer. Our own Congress renewed the H-1B visa, which gave 890,000 American jobs in the past 10 years to foreigners. Little wonder our economy augured into the ground like a plane that lost its wings.

In Sequoia National Park last year, Mexican cartels ran a $150 million dollar drug-growing plantation with armed guards who threatened backpackers. In Florida, a Muslim woman sued our country so she could disobey our laws because she refused to have her picture taken for a driver’s license. A naturalized citizen Muslim soldier in US Army uniform fragged and killed his commanders 12 months ago in Iraq. Over 30,000 men in Army uniform aren't American citizens. The INS freed illegal alien John Malvo who promptly killed 17 Americans. Via illegal immigration of 9 to 13 million, we endure 7,000 new cases of leprosy in the past three years. We suffer a $7 trillion national debt and 6.4% national unemployment, but we spend $68 billion resettling 2.3 million immigrants each year when 18 million of our own citizens can't find a job. Immigrants send $56 billion of our dollars--$15 billion to Mexico, $25 billion to Latin America, $16 billion to Asia--back to their home countries--thus draining us of hard currency. This transfer of wealth is making this country poorer by the day. Consumer debt tops $2 trillion. The average credit card sustains a $7,000.00 debt.
In the cultural realm of a First World Country, do we need rituals where a baby girl has her sexual being cut out of her in the form of 'clitorectomy'? Can we afford everyone wearing a mask for driver’s license pictures? Can we afford losing our English language and become the Tower of Babel? Do we condone, by being politically correct, 'cock fighting' and ‘horse tripping’ brought to us by Third World cultures? What about the new strain of tuberculosis spreading across America because illegal immigrants work in fast food and hotels? It's called MDR TB (multiple drug resistant) and has no cure. According to a report last year titled: ‘THE PATIENT PREDATOR: TUBERCULOSIS’ by Kevin Patterson, 16,000 cases of this strain of tuberculosis migrated from Mexico in the past four years. Illegal immigrants’ children number over one million in our public schools. If your children contract it at school, will they survive? Two million TB deaths worldwide annually don’t bode well.

California citizens are dying in emergency rooms because hospitals are over run with immigrants who can't pay. Because of no family planning in their countries of origin, this endless line of immigrants is pushing us toward 200 million added people vying for diminishing resources past the mid century. For starters, how about a glass of water in the drought prone West?

This is not about race, creed or color. It’s about too many people and an unsustainable
society in the long term. It’s about accelerating unsolvable problems. Minimum population projections add four to five million people to every state in the union. California will add 20 million. Can your state add millions of people without horrific consequences?

It’s important that you enter this accelerating debate on our nation’s future. What is at stake? Our children, the viability of our nation and our way of life. It’s about law and order along with citizenship. In short, it’s about America. It’s about you.

My first post on this is first going to first just say a small thing...

He had a good idea but really its hard to read a guy who says its not about race,creed or color when all his points are based on what "others" are bringing to us.

Funny, just had to point that out.

Okay to actually tackle what is being said...

Its true resources are never going to be in great supply...

But the population of the U.S. would decrease if immigration were stopped IIRC.

Take jobs for example... everyone has a great time blaming it on immigrants. But in a competitive market, if you don't get the job... to me its simple, too bad, there's a good chance also one didn't deserve the job...

Anyways i'd rather people tackle their own problems rather than blame it on 'others' every second

I'm sorry, you all know I'm conservative....

but too few resources? Have you seen how fat this country is?

If you legalize them you at least get tax dollars, while we still provide the medical care we already pay for.

America is a country of immigrants, all American's who are not Indian's are immigrants... it would be funny if the article was not so unaware of the irony.

The "whose country is this anyway" is almost too much, let us be clear it is not the country of white men... as for American's who object to Spanish being used as a government language... it is simply too much. Are there really American people today who's understanding is so poor, so limited, that they do not know that the Spanish were the original European settlers of America, that they NAMED America???

This just seems like somebody dug up their father's "immigrants are stealing our jobs" "Immigrants are different" arguments. He even attempts to blame immigrants for the actions of greedy market driven capitalists. Is it the immigrants fault that they have the comparative advantage when it comes to the price of labor?;) Economists agree that immigrants are just bowing to the will of the almighty market.

He attempts to make broad implications based on the actions of a small minority. RUN, THE MEXICANS ARE GOING TO SET UP DRUG PLANTATIONS!!! Not that you couldn't find ten thousand americans who would gladly work in Sequoia National Park, running a $150 million dollar drug-growing plantation and threatening backpackers.

Playing "Let's Blame the Immigrants" is a fun way to spend an afternoon. Anyone with a good mind for debate can paint any problem as being solely rooted in immigration. Lack of jobs? Immigration. Declining schools? Immigration. CEO corruption? Immigrants(they just seem to have this corrupting effect).


As for not assimilating promptly. I would guess that most immigrants don't really assimilate effectively. Their children seem to assimilate just fine. And their children's children are just your average americans.

Just fyi,

Amerigo Vespucci was Italian, not Spanish.

If you want to get technical, Indians are immigrants too. They had to come from somewhere, because they weren't always here.

I get really tired of people coming over here and absolutely refusing to speak any English. I would never go to Mongolia and expect everyone to learn English just for me.

I agree. I have no problem with anyone legally immigrating in order to contribute to this country and earn a decent living. Heck, that's what I did myself.
All I ask is that you learn to speak English. Don't come over here until you do. It's really not that hard.

It's actually quite hard to learn another language for some people. I'm not suggesting they don't need to learn, just that some don't learn as fast as others. Demanding the learn english before they immigrate is ridiculous IMO.

Immigrants aren't a problem, bring em on!

The state should offer free night classes for people to learn English in, and most immigrants would be very happy to learn English as their second language.

What we do not want is to make people assimiliate to American culture (whatever that is, I can tell you for sure it isnt what the guy who wrote that article thinks it is) but rather to add their culture to it... both where they are from and where they are is a part of who they are.

Do you think the guy who wrote this article hates St Patrick's day prades? Yeah, I doubt it too...

your posts often confuse me. your location says england, but you're commenting on the attitude of the average immigrant in the US. you also use "we" in the sense that you are part of the American culture. will you please clear that up for me? honestly, it would really help me make better sense of this discussion.

i've lived in 4-5 states here in the US, including California. this has given me a lot of firsthand experience in interacting with immigrants. from what i've seen, there is very little desire or impetus to contribute to American culture (again, i know the term is nebulous at best) as it stands today on the part of the growing hispanic population. if asked, i can cite countless examples of such behavior. it's almost as if they realized that within their own communities they can keep their old ways and not contribute fully to US society, all the while reaping the benefits. because they stick together, they can flex their political muscles in ways they could never do that if they were in the habit of assimilating.

in my experience, most are not willing to learn english as long as they can continue to get by without it.

this isn't racist at all, just an observation: the middle eastern and east asian communities are much more interested in contributing to American society in the cases that i have observed. Perhaps this is because the communities they live in have fewer of their own ethnicity, so they are forced to interact more.

it seems like in the past people came to American to be Americans. now it seems like they just want to live like one. if i were in the position that a lot of these people came from in their original countries, i'd probably do the same... but that doesn't mean that it promotes strength and prosperity where i live.

But Spanish people have more right to be in America than the English immigrants, they conquered it first.

And I am English, but I feel I am part of the international working class culture, working people really do not belong to any country.

Americans have to be the greediest bastards alive! as forlack of resources get rid of some of the damn golf courses and cemetaries and that would open up some resources.

Also why should other people have to learn to speak English? Maybe we should learn to speak their language instead. just because americans are too lazy and stupid to further educate themselves on other cultutres, doesn't make it a good excuse.

I'm from texas and hear we all speak a little Spanish, mainly out of respect for the fact we have so many hispanics that live here, it's common courtsey to an e xtent.

Re: The future of America (Immigration Article)
 

Author is a little bit confused that when people live in America they still must abide by American laws. and the comment about dying California citizens, is he saying that Americans are better and deserve treatment and immigrants don't? What about all the americans that can't pay? sounds like something the governemnt needs to fix

I would agree that no one should have to learn English; but why then should I, the tax payer, be forced to fund foreign language ballots, school teachers, translators, etc. in my own country?

And btw, I happen to be semi-literate in Spanish.

SF - The Spanish didn't "conquer" America. They discovered America, then conquered Mexico. The English "conquered" America, and through some strange coincedence, Americans speak English and Mexicans speak Spanish. Neat!

cgrrlll - You're wrong, simply put. I live in California, where many Mexicans live completely English-free lives- and my daughter's public school is hampered by the handicap of teaching a multilingual class, majorly. As a matter of fact, the parent teacher's association meetings are held in Spanish, then translated for the English speakers. (The Asians and Eastern Europeans are apparently on their own) My college Italian teacher continually tells us "This is not like the Spanish sound..." or "For you Spanish-speaking students..." Well, excuse me, but my family has been on this hunk of rock for as many generations as we recall, why should I have to be given short shrift to someone who refuses to learn? It's not as if this issue doesn't affect me, living in the San Fernando Valley, I'm faced with it every day.

However, that's not what you're wrong about. Prior to living in Los Angeles, I lived in Dallas, Texas, and mnay of my friends and family live in Dallas, Fort Worth, San Angelo, and Houston, and the only ones in this group who speak Spanish are the few who learned it in High School- something many of my classmates did in OHIO, where I graduated from HS. Folks in Texas aren't any more respectful of Spanish speakers than anywhere else... did any American here graduate from a HS that didn't require a foreign language? I took French and German in HS, and I'm in Italian 2 as an adult. I have desire to learn about other cultures, but I'm not going to be brainwashed into thinking this isn't an English-speaking country.

Oh, additionally, if there's anything my multiple trips across the Ocean have taught me, it's that not all cultures are as educated as we THINK they are. Having spent a considerable amount of time in Sasebo, Nagasaki, and Yokusuka, Japan, I can tell you folks without question that 90% of the folks I encountered (outside of my hotels) had no freaking CLUE what I was saying. I'm sure they were intelligent, well meaning folks, but they didn't understand any of the English I brought over. The train lady never figured out where I actually needed to go- she just sold me a generic fare in frustration and let me go about my merry way.

I did note that some Japanese understood English better when it was WRITTEN, however. Words they seemed unable to mimic vocally, they could speak relatively clearly when written. It was obvious that some had trained in English, but the vast majority were not English speakers by any stretch of the imagination.

Samuel Huntington (of Clash of Civilizations fame) has just written a book dealing with this topic. His thinly veiled racist rantings would be easier to shrug off if he wasn't such a notable figure in US political science. Might be an interesting read.


SLM3

(Note: I am canadian but i lived much of my life in the states plus canada is facing a similar problem so for purposes of simplification i will refer to myself as american)

First of all, Cynicalgrrrl it seems that you have refuted your own point by first asking why people should learn english and then saying its common courtesy to learn a bit of spanish. Well by the same token, then what about all the other people in Texas? Don't you think it'd be a common courtesy for the spanish-speakers to learn english as well?

I think one of the author's only good points was the one about how places were turning into "city-states of foreigners". To give a different sort of perspective, i knew a ton of kids at my old high school who only spoke spanish or korean or chinese or whatever and had a limited grasp of english. It seems that instead of trying to learn english and blend in with the crowd, they just found people who also only spoke their native language and just hung out w/ them, and i can understand that because it obviously makes them feel more comfortable at the start but the problem is that they just stuck with what was comfortable and didn't try and make new mainly english speaking friends. If you expand that out of school, it applies to many immigrants in general; they congregate in areas where they feel comfortable like chinatown or greek town or whatever and then they just stay there without ever branching out or embracing american culture.

The underlying problem in fact seems to be that people don't respect American culture. Take for example that in muslim states women have to cover their faces. When people go there they are expected to conform to this standard in respect for the country they are in and its culture, and for the most part people do. So then why can't immigrants here respect the new country they have just moved to by learning english or playing some good 'ol american football? Just because we are a melting pot of many different races and cultures doesnt mean we havent created our own unique culture. I'm all for celebrating Chinese New Year or Ramadan, or in today's case, St. Patty's day but if immigrants expect us to respect their culture then they should respect ours.

America was supposeed to be the country for people seeking refuge from their more difficult lives in less free countires. so no some people don't have alot of time to learn English before the flee their war torn countries.

By the way what the hell is amereican Culture? There is no such thing other than regards for thanksgiving and fourth of july, my culture is so mixed from other countries, like most americans are.

Many illegal immigrants are tax payers as well and don't get to enjoy as many privilages as you do as an American. Case in point my illegal immigrant boyfriend, who has to pay taxes for benefits he will never get to enjoy. so consider what your paying as little, considering illegal immigrants are paying for your social security and not their own

And this is my fault your boyfriend is here illegally, using someone elses social security number to work?

I'm sorry, but I didn't ask for him to come here and pay taxes for a program he can't use.

immigrants are given social security numbers for work only, by the government and don't obtain them illegally.

And i personally didn't ask to live in a country with people who are so close minded to accepting others. Why would people come here to meess up the place where they live?

First, please point me to a source that says illegal immigrants are "given" social security numbers to work. I won't say I don't believe you, but I am very skeptical.

Second, I know that illegals use stolen SSN numbers, because my HR person had to screen our workers for just such a thing.

And third, I take great exception to having blame for people KILLING Americans thrust on me and "ignorant people like" me, especially since my only supposed "ignorance" is not liking what the vast numbers of illegal immigrants are doing to my country.

Not only is it offensive, but it is ignorant as well. It is ignorant of economic realities of the supply and demand of goods and services. It is ignorant of other cultures that do not welcome foreigners with a fraction of the hospitality that Americans offer legal immigrants. And it is ignorant because honestly, you have no clue who I am or what my background is.

If I had to make a guess, I would say that the real source of your post is that you are offended for your illegal boyfriend.

If that's the case, then I'm sorry. But he is here illegally, and if he gets caught and sent back (presumably to Mexico, but maybe not), then I won't shed a tear for him, because the fault for his and your pain will be squarely on his shoulders, not mine or anyone elses.

Mexico, how stereotypical no no he's not from Mexico, and I have always been for immigration, and am currently a political science major who advocates my beliefs to the government and wants to get involed in legistation in order to pass policies in favor of immigration. I have been concerned with this topic for awhile now

Your background its not important and neither is who you are since you started this thread and opended yourself up to opinions that didn't agree with your own.


By the way all illegal immigrants are given social security numbers, like work visas so the US can still get taxes and give them nothing in return, so their taxes can support Americans and other government programs they cannot benefit from


American was "settled" by Puritians from Europe who were trying to escape religious persecution. So now we should tell people to go away? We better also get rid of the Statue of Liberty as well

anger check there matey, 'tis a debating forum, not a flaming one, and we're all starting to do our bit to keep it that way. Your argument is also fundamentally flawed, if it could be called an argument, so let the big boys play, and when you stop attacking points that have no relevance to the actual debate itself, then you can join in:)

personally, as someone from a country with a big immigration problem, i think that it's a double sided problem. i have no beef with real refugees and asylum seakers, people who really have had their lives destroyed, and are willing to start anew. i say c'mon in, have a cup of tea, and lets see if we can get you a job.

what pisses me off though, is people who come barging in from places where they have a life, and demand all kinds of random crap from our government, who thanks to our illustrious leaders, is pretty much stuck with them forever. thats not the only thing however, it's the fact that they don't even bother to try and integrate themselves with society that does it.
i would go to bangladesh, demand that the authorities change all kinds of stuff and give me free money on the basis that i'm new in town, and i resent immigrants doing that here. if you want to come in, fine, just become a member of the british society and behave like one, otherwise you deserve whats coming.
as many people have said many times before, when you pander to petty needs of different cultures inside a larger one, you encourage segregation because people have no need to integrate into the present culture.
i think that all immigrants should be required to speak english, do away with having 50 languages on papers and what not. tough love maybe, but i refuse to let our nation be overrun by people who don't even respect the place they're living, it sickens me quite frankly.

ok, maybe an extremist view, but i'm sick and tired of seeing parts of my hometown taken over by immigrants that quite simply, shouldn't even be there in the first place, let alone thinking that they any rights because they are.

but, saying that, we have to sort out a system to find out who can be allowed in and who can't. we should provide good care, food, medicines, and all those other needs in a secure enviroment that won't foster racial discord. i'm sure some of the shetland islands are still empty:cool:

since I think this guy is somewhat connected to Samuel Huntington. he probalby belives that the american culture is "white, british and protestant"

whatever that is ;)

ahh, that my laddie is irish, toi toi toi.

Well actually the lovely Lebell, began the flaming and I just followed suit. And I think a good many points of your "big boy arguments" are bollocks.

I enjoy how on TFP, people only accuse you of flaming if you don't agree with them, I considered Lebell's quotes of assuming my SO was Mexican because he was an immigrant and the assumption that I'm only posting due to that fact my SO is one and Lebell being under the assumption that he would be to blame for getting deported etc.

These online arguments are so one sided, thtat's why it cracks me up everytime members of TFP claim to be open minded, because they can talk openly about sex but are otherwise closed off to any othere type of debate

FAMOUS ARAB AMERICANS

Christa McAuliffe, school teacher killed aboard Challenger space shuttle

Candy Lightner, founder of MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving)

Ralph Nader, consumer advocate and prsidential candidate

Doug Flutie, former Boston College quarterback and 1984 Heisman Trophy winner

James Jabara, US Air Force Colonel and Korean War jet ace

Casey Kasem, radio personality and former host of "American Top 40"

Dr. Michael DeBakey, Houston heart surgeon, inventor of the heart pump

Danny Thomas, late comedian, actor and founder of St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital

Dr. Elias Corey, winner of 1990 Nobel Prize for Chemistry

George Joulwan, West Point graduate and 4 Star General

Kahlil Gibran, author of The Prophet

Steven Naifeh, winner of 1990 Pulitzer Prize for Literature

F. Murray Abraham, winner of Best Actor Oscar for the movie Amadeus

Callie Khouri, winner of Best Original Screenplay Oscar for the movie Thelma and Louise

Paul Orfalea, founder of Kinko's copying store chain

John Sununu, former White House Chief of Staff

Paul Anka, singer, songwriter and former teen idol

Jamie Farr, actor who portrayed Corporal Klinger on M*A*S*H* TV show

Marlo Thomas, Emmy award winning actress, star of TV's "That Girl" and daughter of Danny Thomas

Vic Tayback, actor who portrayed Mel in TV's "Alice"

George Mitchell (D-ME), retired US Senate Majority Leader

Helen Thomas, former Dean of White House Press Corps

Donna Shalala, former Secretary of Health and Human Resources

AMERICANS FROM GERMANY

Josef and Anni Albers

John Peter Altgeld

John Jacob Astor

Albert Bierstadt

Werner von Braun

Adolphus Busch

Charlie Chaplin, actor, producer, director

Rudolf Dirks & the Katzenjammer Kids.

Albert Einstein

Karl Follen

Lou Gehrig

Manfred George

Walter Gropius

Oscar Hammerstein, musical composer and songwriter
Friedrich Hecker

Abraham Jacobi

Johan de Kalb

Henry A. Kissinger

Jakob Leisler

Emanuel Leutze

Francis Lieber

Ernst Lubitsch

Ottmar Mergenthaler

Christian Metz

John O. Meusebach

Heinrich Melchior Muhlenberg and sons Johan Peter Gabriel and
Frederick Augustus Conrad

Friedrich Muench

Thomas Nast

Anna Ottendorfer

Erwin Panofsky

Franz Daniel Pastorius and the protest against US slavery

Adolph Rickenbacker. Constructed the first electric guitar!

Johann Augustus Roebling

Ludwig Mies van der Rohe

George Hermann "Babe" Rut, baseball player, The Great Bambino

Johann Paul Schott

Carl Schurz and the 1848ers

Martin Schwarzschild

Charles Proteus Steinmetz

Heinrich Steinway, sons John, Theodore, Henry
Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben

Levi Strauss-founder of Levi's blue jeans

Johann August Sutter and the Gold Rush

John Studebaker

Paul Tillich

Henry Villard

Robert Wagner

Bruno Walter

Lawrence Welk

Kurt Weill

Friedrich Weyerhaeuser

Johan Peter Zenger

FAMOUS MEXICAN AMERICANS

Christina Aguilera, singer, Grammy winner

Isabel Allende, writer

Roberto Alomar, baseball player

Aida Alvarez, First Women to head the U.S. Small Business Organization

Julia Alvarez, writer

Luis Walter Alvarez, Nobel Prize-winning physicist

Rudolfo Anaya, writer

Marc Anthony, singer

Desi Arnaz, actor, producer

Judy Baca, artist

Joan Baez, folk singer and activist

Jean-Michel Basquiat, artist

Antonio Banderas, actor

Ruben Blades, musician, composer, actor

Jose Canseco, baseball player

Mariah Carey, singer, Grammy winner

Cesar Chavez, Labor leader

Linda Chavez, Conservative commentator

Linda Chavez-Thompson, Labor Leader

Henry Cisneros, U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development

Sandra Cisneros, Critically Acclaimed Writer

Roberto Clemente, baseball player

Celia Cruz, artist

Penelope Cruz, actress

Sammy Davis, Jr., singer, actor, Rat Pack member

Oscar De La Hoya, boxer

Dolores Del Rio, actress

Benicio Del Toro, actor, Oscar nominee

Cameron Diaz, actress

Gloria Estefan, pop singer, Grammy Winner

Emilio Estevez, actor/son; Charlie Sheen, actor/son; Martin Sheen, actor/father

David Glasgow Farragut

Lisa Fernandez, softball player

Andy Garcia, actor

Rupert Garcia, artist

Nomar Garciappara, baseball player

Roberto C. Goizueta, businessman

Scott Gomez, hockey player

Pancho Gonzalez, tennis player

Salma Hayek, actress, Oscar nominee

Rita Hayworth, actress

Antonia Hernández, president and general counsel for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF)

Oscar Hijuelos, writer

Maria Hinojosa, journalist

Delores Huerta, Labor Leader

Enrique Iglesias, singer, Grammy nominee

Julio Iglesias, singer, Grammy winner

Raul Julia, actor

John Leguizamo,actor, comedian

Tania León, singer

Jennifer Lopez, actress, singer

Nancy Lopez, golfer

Trini Lopez, singer

Juan Marichal, baseball player

Ricky Martin, singer, Grammy nominee

Melquiades Martinez, U.S. Secretary for Housing and Urban Development

Pedro Martinez, baseball player

Mario Molina, Nobel Prize-winning chemist

Ricardo Montalban, actor

Rita Moreno, actress, singer, dancer

Anthony Munoz, football player

Carlos Noriega, astronaut

Antonia Novello, U.S. Surgeon General

Ellen Ochoa, astronaut

Severo Ochoa, Nobel Prize-winning biochemist

Edward James Olmos, actor

Rosie Perez, actress, dancer, choreographer, activist

Tito Puente, musician

Anthony Quinn, actor

Manny Ramirez, baseball player

Alex Rodriquez, baseball player

Chi Chi Rodriquez, golfer

Michelle Rodriguez, actress

Linda Ronstadt, singer

John Ruiz, boxer

Alberto Salazar, marathoner

Carlos Santana, singer, guitarist, Grammy winner

Selena, singer, Grammy winner

Junipero Serra, missionary

Richard Serra, sculptor

Shakira, singer

Jimmy Smits, actor

Sammy Sosa, baseball player

Gary Soto, writer

Lupe Velez, actress

Nydia Velasquez, U.S. Representative

Have I made my point yet or should I go on?

Um yeah, sorry i dont get the point of posting those huge long lists. I totally agree that many immigrants have contributed alot to society but thats not the issue. I also take offense to being called a redneck or ignorant and that you accuse us of not accepting different cultures. As i stated in my previous post i am all too happy to accept any new cultures by celebrating their holidays, trying their food, whatever. The real issue seems to be the way that we have to bend our society to accomodate the demands of some immigrants instead of them making a small effort to respect the culture of the new country they live in by at the very least, learning english. Again, i say some in case i'm being "ignorant" again.

Also, i have searched for any mention of illegal immigrants getting SSN's but i honestly can't find anything. I know that workers from different countries can apply for work visa's like the HB-1 or the old TD and that they are then issused a SSN but i have never heard of illegal immigrants getting one. If you would point me towards a credible source that says there is such a thing i will be more then happy to admit i'm wrong, but why would they still be considered ILLEGAL immigrants if they are registered by the government?

I'm not calling you ignorant or a redneck, but immigrants that are stilled considered illegal can have work social security numbers, but have no standing as an American citizen. They just get to pay taxes. The government is well aware we have illegal immigrants living here and allow them to work and won't deport them as long as they pay taxes and don't cause a stir

Here look it up, lawful noncitizens getting social security
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10096.html

According to the SSA website:

If you do not qualify for an SNN (e.g. you don't have legal status):


From the linked IRS website re: ITIN's


So apparently, if you have to provide a tax number to work, you can get an ITIN from the IRS.

The IRS won't dig too deep into your legal status.

This is vastly different from what was claimed.

I will address this directly and then let other's handle the other implications of the post.

That's why I said, "presumably Mexico, maybe not".

I don't recall anywhere where I questioned how long you've been concerned with the topic, but I did state that you were ignorant of certain realities, something you haven't disproven to me.

Do you always sexually harass men when you get into arguments with them?

I see.

So while you jump to wild conclussions about who I am without bothering to ask, you on the other hand volunteer some of who you are, even though I didn't ask.

Wrong assumption again. No, that isn't why I'm here.

I don't know. Maybe for the same reasons I don't throw into the thread why I like cats, how I think US energy policy needs serious revamping, etc. (i.e. that isn't what this thread is about).

Actually, I've followed your links and you are incorrect, as I explained above.

You are full of anger, but that doesn't excuse attacking other board members.

And while I'm not expecting a bouquet of roses from you, I would appreciate some respect for the fact that I donate my time to make this a good place to be, instead of scorn for my efforts.

Your ignorance of history (and again, of my own background) not withstanding, other than going on an angry rant for several posts, you've done nothing in terms of reasonable debate to convince me that I'm wrong.


(edit: fixed vB quote tag)

Simply put, your stance, CG, is wrong. Nothing on any of these sites (And here's one of my own) claims that *illegal* immigrants have any right to a SSN:

http://www.visalaw.com/03jun4/2jun403.html

If your boyfriend is an illegal immigrant, well, he should get his ass in gear and apply for LEGAL immigrant/US Citizen status, and then you won't hear a peep out of anyone. US citizens can be whatever they wanna be, and in the majority of the USA a mix of cultures is welcomed and appreciated. But when the "mix" of cultures just means you can no longer speak English, that's not much of a "mix", is it?

On the other hand, I dislike the fact that New York and Boston boroughs can be(and have been) predominantly Jewish, Irish, Puerto-Rican, Italian, so on, and somehow that's acceptable... while having highly Mexican or Cuban populations is somehow unacceptable. Certainly the amount of illegal immigration has taken an upturn in the last decade, but why blame the immigrants' culture for their illegal actions? I dislike having to learn Spanish to survive in the Valley, but I don't want to deny anyone an opportunity to succeed.

One other note, CG- your lists are ridiculous. Every thinking individual knows that the USA is a cultural melting pot. Hell, my family could fall into lists of German, Irish, Italian, Mexican, Native American, and probably some Northern European cultures... but you don't see me screaming about Irish rights and great Italians. No, I'm more concerned with AMERICA, and I'm hoping the next generation of immigrants will also be concerned with America. Is that too much to ask?

Besides, if you're looking to pick a fight with some conservatives, you've officially (as of a few days ago) come to the wrong place.

you website states that;

The Social Security Administration (SSA) gives cards to individuals who are U.S. citizens or non-citizens who are lawfully admitted to the U.S. for permanent residence, or who have permission from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) record to work permanently in the United States, such as refugees, asylees, work visa holders and citizens of Compact of Free Association countries.

What do you all think non-citizens are? They are lawfully allowed to be here but not legal citizens.

And as for another lovely slam against my boyfriend. His mother married an American man so they could all come to America, except the fact that he beat them and screwed up their addmission status so they couldn't tell anyone, because they weren't actual citizens. So they had to pretty much escape from him. And he was 12 when all this happened. By the way try to hire an immigration lawyer they go around $300 an hr.

But why would automatically assume Mexico? It's a stereotypical answer, people from all over the world immigrate here.

when you said you presummed the only reason I was posting was because I was offended on my bf's behalf.

Since this nation's founding, more than 55 million immigrants from every continent have settled in the United States. In fact, with the exception of Native Americans, everyone living in this country is either an immigrant or the descendent of voluntary or involuntary immigrants.

Was there really a need to split that response into 4 seperate posts? Anyway, i think you have confused the terms "non-citizen" and "illegal immigrant" because they are definitely not the same. A non-citizen is someone who has a work-visa and can stay in the country as long as they work. They are registered with the INS and pay taxes but can't vote or do some of the things full citizens can. Non-citizens keep the passports of their country of origin and leave once the work term is up or apply for permanent citizenship. An illegal immigrant is someone who just snuck across the border and has no legal status. I'm not sure about how taxation goes for them but i'd be betting illegal immigrants don't pay taxes because as far as the IRS is concerned, they don't exist.

As for why Lebell assumed Mexico, i can't speak for him but i would be guessing that since geographically speaking, mexico is the only country bordering texas and that there are many well documented cases of illegal immigrants crossing over on the texas border, it wasn't too much of a leap to assume your bf was from mexico.

Finally, please stop making irrelevant points like your last post and the huge list of famous immigrants. We all know that the U.S. was created by immigrants and that the majority of its population consists of immigrants, be it recent or generations removed.

No matter what I say you have all closed off any debate about this, but it doesn't matter since the point you are arguing is a fairly moot one, Hispanics right now are the largest growing race in America and in a short while will be the predominate race in the U.S.

I feel stupid for even having to say so in a POLITICS thread, seeing as we're all supposed to be adults here, but here goes:

Quit the flaming and snapping at other posters. You know who you (a few of you) are.

Especially where it can be a heated topic, we all need to be particularly careful of our thoughts, and see to it that only the constructive ones make it to screen. You can scream all you want in your head, or at the screen, but save your fingers the effort and us all the trouble of having to read it, or edit/warn/etc.

Further infractions will be met with stricter application of the rules of this board. (We can only allow people to slide for so long)

Resume. :)

The site is clear in its wording and you contradict yourself. Lawful does not mean illegal.

You are reading an awful lot into those few words.

I on the other hand, could read your words to mean that you consider the thought of dating a Mexican National offensive and thus you are bigoted, but that would be just as silly.

I made an educated guess, based on the overwhelming number of illegal Mexican immigrants in relation to illegal immigrants from other nations. I also hedged my guess, admitting I could have been wrong, which I apparently was.

Further discussion on this point is silly. If you are bound to take offense at it, there is nothing I can do to stop you, but my words were clear.

Again, I have no idea how you got from my point "A" to your point "B", especially since you could have been dating him for years.



I almost completely agree with you, except for the fact that the "Native Americans" are immigrants too, having immigrated here from Asia several thousand years ago.

From the Merriam Webster dictionary:

Both you and I are "native" to the US; we were born here. There is no ancestral component to the definition of "native". If you choose to throw that in (which you have), I can simply counter as I have, since we are really only drawing lines in the sand of time as to what constitutes "native".

And yes, immigrants are a very real and good part of our history. And the vast majority of them were legal immigrants, including my own ancestors from Italy, Ireland, France and England. If you want, I can go into great depth about the history of Denver and Colorado and the important role immigrants played.

But again, you have said nothing to convince me that illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay, or that illigal immigration shouldn't be vigorously curbed.

The best argument, namely that American business needs illegals, I could have at least made an attempt to discuss with you, but you chose to degrade the thread instead by personally attacking me.

It's called immersion it's what generations before have done because they knew it was the way to get better jobs and higher salaries. Otherwise we'd all be speaking Italian, Spanish (Castillian) Gaelic, German, Polish, Hungarian, Russian and English.

Without a common language to conduct business and community places become very divided, example Los Angeles' population with Koreans and Mexicans, where they refuse to assimilate into the melting pot of society.

You say that its out of respect that many of you speak a little spanish, well what about conversely? Shouldn't the same courtesy be extended to those that speak english?

I'm not lazy and I know lots about other cultures and even lived in another for some time. I don't see the same difficulties there than I do here because they have strong cultural identity and refuse to bend to immigrants.

Maybe I am lazy and stupid....but I fail to see why this thread has gone from an intersting discussion on the lagality of immigration status, to a series of insults directed at each other.

Here is an attenpt to resume the topic:
Should an individual cross the borders into a country, they are expected to abide by the laws and customs of the place they willingly migrated to. This is simply commom sense.
Should said individual feel these laws or customs do not meet the criteria they have for happiness, or productivity, they are free to migrate elsewhere. These laws and customs are in place at the request of the residents of said country, and if the migrant wishes them to change they must gain the rights of citizenship and WORK for this change.
Legal citizenship is in place for a reason, and with it come certain rights and responsibilities, it is by no means a minor part of any society, and must be "granted" by the governing entity of that society.
Illegal immigration is just that,illegal. Not legal. Against the law.
Granting the rights of citizenship, to non-citizens, would make the term citizen, and all that it entails irrellevent.
While I realize it is not easy to gain these rights and responsibilities for all who make the attempt, that does not make the attempt futile or unneccessary.
I was born to these resposibilities, and rights. I am lucky in this regard and likely do not understand the trials of having to gain citizenship, That is why we have laws to govern the proccess.

If one wants to become a part of this society, which is based on lawful participation. Do not start off by unlawfully avoiding this participation

Thought I spent much of my life on the other side of the fence on this issue, and though I am myself the child of Pakistani immigrants (actually, I myself immigrated when I was a few months old) I have come to realize immigration IS, without a doubt, a problem in this country.

Legal immigration is fine. I am not qualified to say whether the rate at which we legally admit foreigners should be changed or not, though I admit that the author of the article in question has a strong opinion on that.

However, illegal immigration and specifically the lack of integration is a huge cultural problem.

I have an Asian friend who, during a debate, once shouted at me in frustration "Asian people destroy everything that's good about America!" This was an obvious overstatement, but what he meant specifically, he explained, was that in his part of California the Asian American community absolutely refuses to integrate, building its own closed community with an entirely Asian culture.

The same is true of *many* (not all) Mexican immigrants. In a poll of Mexican-born immigrants in SoCal in 1992, 0% responded "American" to the question: "How do you identify, that is, what do you call yourself?" In the same poll, of Mexican Americans born in the United States, only 4% responded "American". (This is from Samuel Huntington's article in the latest issue of Foreign Policy. And no, I don't entirely agree with the whole article, but these stats are telling.)

Living in the US as a naturalized citizen has been a privilege that I respect. Part of that privilege has been learning to speak English, after being thrust as a kindergartener into a roomful of kids who didn't speak my language. Yes, it's easier to learn English at that age than as an adult, but it's necessary to speak the language to properly fulfill your civic role (or your role as a legal noncitizen). I don't think everyone should be forced to learn English; that's a choice that has consequences for only the one who makes the decision. However, why is tax money being used to fund multilingual schools, multilingual ballots, and overall multilingual bureaucracy? It's both a waste of national resources and an erosion of national identity. Plenty of immigrants have learned to speak English AND retained their native languages (like myself, and many people I know). It may be difficult, but this country is a society, not a handout line.

as a legal worker and the son of immigrants who came here on work visas and eventually became naturalized almost 10 years ago, I too pay taxes for benefits I will never enjoy just like my parents did. I went to private school. Did we still have to pay for educational funding for public school yes. I choose to have no kids, I still have to pay taxes that go to funding public schools. I have never seen any benefit of it.

What's your point? They're ILLEGAL... they came here unlawfully!

CG - it looks like you've abandoned the tread, but I'll respond anyhow. Saying your boyfriend "should get his ass in gear and apply for LEGAL immigrant/US Citizen status" is not in any way a SLAM against him, it's a simple fact.

You concede he's been in this country since he was 12, when exactly is he going to actually get around to obeying the law? Every year I have to "get my ass in gear" and do my taxes, register my cars, pay my renter's, health, and car insurance, enroll my kid in school, file for financial aid, and, of course, work a full-time job. If I neglect to do one of those tasks, it's reasonable to say I better "get my ass in gear" and do them.

Would you drive an illegally unregistered CAR for years? Hell no, you'd go get your license plates, pay the taxes, and get it taken care of. To assume he shouldn't do that for himself is a little ridiculous.

Or, to give you an example that features LEGAL FEES, since you mentioned the $300/hr fee, would you stay married to someone for years after splitting up just to avoid the divorce lawyer fees? What if you wanted to marry someone else? Just "let it ride"? Naw, you'd save the cash, swallow your pride, and pony up the money. That's the real world. For some reason you seem to think Americans are all about hatin' the "brown man" or some nonsense. My wife is half Mexican, half Italian. Our daughter is 3/4 Mexican. Does that give them the right to hate white folks, or other Americans? Does it give them the right to ignore federal law?

Considering the fact the he does everything that you mentioned above as well as work full time and attend college full time, I think he does have his "ass in gear" that fact that you assumed that he didn't do any of this because he was an immigrant was what was insulting. He is working on getting his immigration status changed but I don't think you have ever been to through the process, because it does take a couple of years. Only against the brown man? Hardly my bf is Russian, and you to seem to not descriminate against disliking all illegal immigrants
That fact the many people on this thread seem to lump all immigrants into a group is what becomes insulting.

I will debate fairly and not take any cheap shots, but the rest of you should adhere to that policy as well.

1. Many immigrants illegal or otherwise, do tend to retain their cultures or lives in sections of town dominated by their particular culture, but not all do. Many immigrants that do refuse to speak the language, as you claim, are an older generation of immigrants who are already set in their ways. Their children usually do speak the language and branch out. Older immigrants who came here, usually to have an easier life, have more trouble learning the language and usually have someone in their family who can speak English for them. But they do abide the law.

2. Immigrants that are either illegal or don't abide by the laws are quickly deported. Many Iranian immigrants were deported with no just cause, after 9/11, even though they were law abiding citizens. When you are arrested the first thing the police will check is if you are a US citizen.

3. The entire world has a shortage of natural resouces and jobs etc. Blaming immigrants for this is a easy way out. People, all people have used up the world's resources without giving second thought to it, this a problem society should deal with. Blaming immigrants is easier for people because they don't have to accept responsiblity for their own actions. People having jobs and spending money boosts the economy. Most immigrants also don't have high power jobs due to their lack of experience in the American job field and lack of education in college.

4. Most illegal immigrants are underpaid and overworked because their bosses know they can't do anything about it. Most live in poor conditions and do not get any help from the government. Most large American coporations such as Wal-Mart etc, make a good profit out of using illegal immigrants as workers.

5. Immigrants come to this country looking for a better way of life, shut off all the doors to immigrants illegal or otherwise and America no longer is a nation of the free, and slowly it's democratic values will decline. America's founding principles will no longere be valid and therefore the constitution would technically no longer be valid either.

6. Most people are illegal immigrants due in large part to the fact that the process to become a natural citizen, has so much red tape because of the government. The government has made it costly, difficult, and drawn out for people to become citizens, even for people that pose no threat to the U.S. and have already resided here for many years. This has scared most immigrants from applying for citizenship because they are afraid they will be deported in the process. If you have such a problem with illegal immigrants contact your government and ask them why they would rather make immigrants illegal than legal. Because everyone needs a scapegoat, especially the government.

I think they are lumping all"illegal" immigrants into a group, which would make perfect sense in the context of this thread. If he is working towards his citizenship, there is no reason to get upset, as he will soon have all the rights you do.
My sister married a man from Argentina, in an attempt to help him gain citizenship. It still took the better part of two years to finalize, then he moved back to South America, as he had finished his education in California, and they divorced.....hmmmm.

Some people do that, but the government makes it extremely difficult nowadays to get away with it. I wouldn't suggest doing that, because it messes with those sacred marriage vows. Both of my parents have been offered money to marry people, so the people could get their citizenship. I always thtought that was kinda odd

My parents didn't want me to speak the language at home. I was brought up to speak english. My cousins who were allowed to speak and "gain" an accent within their english, makes it harder for them to "play the game" and speak and orate well. I have witnessed young Puerto Ricans specifically say,"Don't speak english speak spanish." because they thought that I didn't speak spanish and they wanted to talk about my wife (who is white and also speaks spanish) I chastised them in spanish for being disrespectful.

Many illegal immigrants still live here. Why else is GWB considering giving "legal status" to them?

[quote]
3. The entire world has a shortage of natural resouces and jobs etc. Blaming immigrants for this is a easy way out. People, all people have used up the world's resources without giving second thought to it, this a problem society should deal with. Blaming immigrants is easier for people because they don't have to accept responsiblity for their own actions. People having jobs and spending money boosts the economy. Most immigrants also don't have high power jobs due to their lack of experience in the American job field and lack of education in college. [quote]
There are also plenty of immigrants that do have high powered jobs, just look at who runs MGM Entertainment. He worked hard to get to where he is via plenty of education and networking.

Wal Mart was raided just the other month. Undocumented workers is a very serious thing.

[quote]5. Immigrants come to this country looking for a better way of life, shut off all the doors to immigrants illegal or otherwise and America no longer is a nation of the free, and slowly it's democratic values will decline. America's founding principles will no longere be valid and therefore the constitution would technically no longer be valid either.[quote]
My family took almost 15 years to get here. They all came here via petition and most of them got their green cards and the rest were naturalized. If you look at the history of the US you'll find that there are periods in times when the borders were closed and America didn't fall to pieces.

If you came here on a proper visa then you have nothing to worry about. If you break a law you will always look over your shoulder.

On a sidenote, sorry for anyone I offended, especially too Lebell, it was uncalled for and immature, I just get very fired up when people discuss this topic and let my emotions get the better of me. I don't like it when people make assumptions about me and my character and shouldn't do it in return. My apoligizes

Did your boyfriend come over to study or was he invited? That is the only way I know for someone to get a SSI number. That DOES NOT entitle him to SSI benefits because his CLASSING of his visa MOST LIKELY DOES NOT permit him to work. But given the fact you are going on round and round about him paying taxes but not being entitled to SSI shows he is working ILLEGALLY, because his STATUS has not the work permission.
That is his mistake and THERE IS NO other way to put it: He might be legally in the U.S., but he is not LEGALLY allowed to work.
No matter ho many times you flip it and think it's unfair, HE IS IN THE WRONG.

2nd point: It is now a proven fact that even Columbus didn't "discover" America, nor the Spanish. (How can you find something that was never lost and belonged to someone else?)
One of Columbus's slaves "found" America while Columbus was too busy chasing some savage for a piece of tail...

3rd : Most of the illegals KNOW where to go and how to abuse the American system JUST because their staus as an illegal.
How you think they got jobs at WalMart? Was there a WalMart representitive standing on the border with a sign in their language pointing the way? No, they come with the intention to work as "cheap labor". The American dollar can go a lot further in some countries than their own currency. It's a shame that most businesses hire cheaper labor and mark the money they save up in the "PROFITS" margin as money saved... I have witnessed this more than 5 times: Some businesses hire a delivery boy or waiter for $2 an hour instead of paying minimum wage (so they save almost $4 off the top or use the excess to hire 2 more. 3 illegals for the cost of 1 working American without having to pay insurance, health benefits, taxes.) then let them keep the tips. The average delivery boy makes $60 - $100 A DAY in TIPS ALONE. So they make $80 in wages and average $500 - $600 a week! (And do they pay taxes on it?) Now think of all the immigrants you see all over the place working in restaurants making deliveries or serving food? And this is the small scale of the balance, think about Skilled and Trade jobs that is affected.

Walk down any New York street and you'll see how many bootleg items being sold (bad copies of items made from American businesess) by immigrants and LOOK at how many are doing it..

Then think of why American is heading to the pits because America holds her arms open to everyone from anywhere else in the world, and they take more advantage of "the system". Now, if it is so much of a problem of them becoming registered and legal, I don't see them having a problem and doing the "illegal"
way..

Buddah you should change your name to reflect, a less caring individual

Wow. You seem to just enjoy sticking your foot in your mouth. We lump all immigrants into a group? You're lumping all of us in with some facist anti-immigration whackos simply because we don't want to be overrun by illegal immigrants! Does it MATTER if your boyfriend is brown, or black, or yellow, or green? To you, apparently it matters. To the rest of us, who gives a flip? If he goes through the process of becoming a citizen, none of this argument even applies to him!

No, it's completely alright for you to complain that we're all just going to "so suck it up and get used to" the fact that "Hispanics right now are the largest growing race in America and in a short while will be the predominate race in the U.S." No, sorry, we DON'T have to suck it up and get used to it. In fact, we can stand up to it and DEMAND that our leadership address the issue of illegal immigration before it does turn our country into the third-world. You seem inclined to allow illegal immigrants to just go ahead and keep breaking the law, yet you chastise companies for hiring them. Oh, sure, Wal-Mart's evil for breaking the law, but Johnny Immigrant is completely pious for doing the same?

Your arguments sound like something a ninth-grade MEChA member would be spouting.

I tell it straight, lady. Like it or lump it. I dont pull punches.
Your mistake was not knowing how to keep "NEUTRAL"
and "IMPARTIAL" on and OPEN FORUM... So don't complain if some people reply in a way or tone you don't like. You are speaking from a point you think you know first hand perspective when it isn't even yours. It's his. Then you react in the way you think you should because IT'S someone very (?) close to you. (I'll give you that point.) NO MATTER what rocks your boat or how you see it, LAW IS LAW. So, can you say he is LEGALLY in the States AND is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO WORK in the U.S. of A.?
IF you can, then you have a VALID point to be upset, if not stop the song, I don't wanna see it getting to a point where it is almost hazardous. You are talking with your heart more than your head...
You cannot possibly imagine what I have been through being back in the States after living in Europe for 14 years. I caught it from people in their country giving me shit because I'm American, I've gotten shit FOR being American, and now I'm back IN America and still getting SHIT FROM them in my OWN COUTRY. It's tough for even me to get any job AND I'm American. SO, before you go calling the kettle black and go on about how you've been handle heavy-handed, bring your resentment or argument some-the-fuck-where-else and check it. If you can't come CORRECT in this conversation: "Don't" even THINK about stepping to me or trying to twist me.

Maybe you shouldn't be so "cynical" cynicalgrrlll...
WHO are YOU to judge ME?

AND this is a warning to EVERYONE:

TONE DOWN........

I think a better way to put it is...
debate all you want, but the names and attitudes of all involved are non-negotiable. Make do with what you've got and stay within the rules.

Shame on you both.

erm...
Both who?

*Holy hijack a thread, Batman!!*

And that comment made you look more mature huh?

And just to clarify a point, my bf is only a LEGAL citizen when he is working, which means he has to reapply for a work visa and social security number to work every year. He gets to pay taxes and for social security that he will never get to see and also gets no benefits from the government, which is not limited to but includes, welfare, health insurance, social security, voting rights, college funding of any kind (even though he graduated with honors in the top ten of his high school in America and a year early.) cannot leave the country since he cannot apply for a passport to get back in.

HHMMM....I think I am also paying for benefits I will likely never see. As I am 37 and have been paying for SS since I was 16, It is very likely these benefits will be gone when I am eligable. That does not mean I can stop paying my taxes, It does however, allow society here to take better care of its citizenry.I also will never(god willing) accept welfare, as I have no intention of "needing"it, and must pay for my own health insurance. Your argument is doomed to relative failure, if you intend to debate his eligability for poverty benefits.
We have more than enough impovershed individuals who require government assistance, Why would anyone in this society agree to pay for these benefits for someone legally from another country.
The same Goes for college assistance, I would be a little upset if my daughter was passed up for college aid, in favor of your boyfriend,I must work 50-60 hrs a week to support my family in this economy, and pay alot in taxes. I would expect some form of return on this in the future, and have no intention of paying for the education of an illegal immigrant.

i think that immigration is great because most immigrants come here to work hard and it kind of balances things out

there is an area in south St. Louis that is almost all bosnian and it youst to be a dump but now that all these people are there it is a very neat area and an area that has a lot of thriving buisness its great the only problem is the bosnians are trying to stop other people from moving into the area because it has become very desireable to some people and what the bosnians are trying to do bothers me but i love that they are coming here and improving my city

Fuzyfuzer I love you!

I have noticed thet you still haven't answered if he is LEGALLY in the States and LEGALLY authorized to work in the U.S. of A.
If he was invited to work by some company and then changed his line of work (which in this case it sounds like it..) then his visa status has changed and the country does not have to honor the original reasons of his visa. He will be in a kinda of "limbo" until his status changes.

Second part of that is: Until he becomes an American citizen, THEN and ONLY then he is intitled for benefits of an American citizen..

I aware of that and I already answered your first question, but I'll say it again, YES he can LEGALLY work here. Please read previous posts about this, I'm not gonna walk you through it again.

So, learn to read the fine print: He is NOT an American citizen, so he is NOT intitled to benefits of an American citizen. It was the same for me when I lived in Europe: I was able to work and live in those countries but I was not intitled to the same benefits of those citizens. So the politics are going around for the same way for people from other walks of life in other countries. It sucks, but thats the way it goes for now.

I would have to say....you should definately keep your name, as should buddah.I guess we will never actually know the real status of your BF, but it really makes little difference.When he is a naturalized citizen of the U.S.A., he will certainly gain all rights he is entitled to. Until then, write your friggin' congresswoman/man, and direct the venom you have at them, but leave me out of it.

Anyone care to actually discuss the topic, as it could be interesting?

I would think it a natural progression of a slowly uniting globe, that little chunks of unique culture would be prevelant for a time. If we look at this on a larger time scale, it almost seems natural that groups of people would clump together to share like culture. But thru the passage of time would become more watered down, or mixed into the larger population.
Eventually, with the growth in media and communications, we will all be one culture. It may take hundreds, or thousands of years, but it is inevitable.America will not exist at that point, nor will any true borders be in place....someday.

You ignore your own comment. You stated "Hispanics right now are the largest growing race in America and in a short while will be the predominate race in the U.S... so suck it up and get used to it". As it concerns illegal aliens, we have no desire to be overrun by third-world citizens who suddenly have free reign on our jobs and land. If you fail to see that providing amnesty will have an overall negative impact on our country's unity and productivity, that's your own prejudice.

No one is belaboring this point. We're nearly all liberals, and thus generally not a prejudiced lot at all. I live in Los Angeles, where my neighbors are Mexican and Eastern European, and neither of them speaks English predominantly. I'm married to a Mexican/Italian girl. The fact is, if you're IMMIGRATING, you're not an American. You're hispanic, latino, bulgarian, cuban, asian, whatever. More often than not, that means NOT WHITE. This is not a prejudice, it's an observation. Your early posts seem convinced that we oppose the prescence of those "not like us", when we merely want to have a country where the citizens have respect for America, its citizens, and its culture- something you claim it does not have, even as you likely wear jeans and tennis shoes while eating fast food and flipping through the channels, past a baseball game, the NCAA tournament, and finally settling on a big Hollywood picture. America has no culture- yet our sports have international interest. Our films generate billions of dollars worldwide. Our new styles proliferate the media. We're a young country, but our impact is huge.

Are you serious?

I'll make this as clear as possible: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE BREAKING THE LAW. The law is SIMPLE- if you enter the United States without persmission, you are BREAKING THE LAW.

How is it that this is such a mystery? Every single poster here, except you, knows this to be a fact. If you enter the country illegally, whether you be a Mexican, a Cuban, an Afghani, a Saudi Arabian, or a Brit, you're still BREAKING THE LAW, and you are eligible to be DEPORTED. If you don't comprehend this most basic of facts regarding immigration, you're not really qualified to comment on the topic at all, are you?