Strange Famous

When you think there is some standard of decency they will not sink beneath... of course, they prove you wrong.

I can think of nothing more disgusting or distasteful that "President" Bush could chose to campaign on than to seek to gain political capital from the murder of 3000 people.

Once again, the American people must surely reject this man

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Ustwo

Yes the DNC can run adds with Bush pushing old ladies down the stairs, but heaven forbid we get reminded about why we are fighting the war on terror.

The democrats are TERRIFIED of this issue and will try their best to spin it as politicizing the war on terror, which ironicly, is all they have been doing since the week after 9/11.

Before 9/11 I wasn't sure about Bush, I liked him but didn't know if he was the best man for the job (I always like Chenny better). Bush showed leadership and resolve after 9/11 and I was damn glad he was our president.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Bill O'Rights

Dammit SF, you beat me to the thread. I was going to put a poll in it, but in any case...

Ustwo, gimme a break. By now you know that I fall into neither the Liberal, nor the Conservative camps. You should also know by now, that I am certainly no fan of GWB. My reasons are my own, not the Democrats or the Republicans. But, c'mon, man!! Even you have to see that it's in extremely poor taste to use film footage of that day for an election campaign. This just adds to list of reasons why I have little respect for him.
There's a "low road", and there's a "high road" to any campaign. In my opinion, he just sunk to the lowest road that he could possibly have taken. JHC, I almost feel sorry for him. Almost.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Evil Milkman

There are a few questions people will ask about these ads eventually...

• Did President Bush's administration have previous intelligence about the impending attacks, and were they in part responsible for not doing everything could to prevent such attacks?
• Did the President do everything in his power to initiate a complete investigation after the attacks?
• Is the President doing enough right now to defend our borders against another major terror attack?
• Is Bush funding our nation's defense (firefighters/policemen/etc...) enough to be able to fully respond to another attack?

I'm not surprised about the ads at all. He was in power during the terror attacks, and so he can either ignore that responsibility, or use it to his advantage (which may backfire).

If Kerry truly wants to play hardball with Bush, he's going to have to run ads counterattacking the President's ads. For instance, he would run an ad showing how Bush has largely ignored the fallen soldiers of the war he started.

Mr. Mojo

I think people have unfortunately forgotten all about 9/11. Terrorism in the publics mind is no longer a threat, people need to be reminded what happened so we are on guard to make sure it never happens again.

Here's something for you, I live in New York fuckin' City. I saw the towers fall – live in person not on CNN. I'm not offended. The NY Daily News didn't call and ask my opinion. I thought my cousin was dead (she made it out). She's not offended. The NY Daily News didn't call and ask her opinion. She said the same thing. Too many people have forgotten that WE were attacked first. Bush has one job, to make sure this nation is safe from secure so we can do things like waste time on a website looking at porn, go to baseball games and not worry about some crazy fuck blowing himself up. She used to be a uber-liberal. Now she walks around with her Bush pin on her bag. And to do that in this liberal city is pretty ballsy. I Think what did it for her, was when Bush threw out the opening pitch at the World Series. Standing out in the middle of the field with no protection when the nation is at war with fanatics was a nice move to relax the country.
The people who are all in a 'furor' over this ad, are not going to vote for Bush anyway, so what does it really matter?. End of rant.


Here are the Ad's…in case no one has seen them..
<a target=new href="http://www.georgewbush.com/TVAds/"><b>LINK</b></a>

__________________
When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

Evil Milkman

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle, indeed.

Bush does have a job to protect this country from terrorist attacks, and the public shouldn't have to live in fear. However, the public needs to examine whether or not the President is truly doing his job to the best of his ability, and not just reminding people to live in fear because it could happen again we don't reelect him.

filtherton

I missed the dnc ads with bush pushing the old lady. Sounds like a good metaphor for what social security is going to look like when the baby boomers start qualifying for it en masse though.

I don't think the war on terror is anything the dems need to be afraid of. In fact, if there's anybody who should fear war talk it should be those responsible for our failed sortie in the desert.

As for the ad, i'm not really in a position to scream blody murder. I do think it ironic that the dems could probably use the same footage to show how the current admin dropped the ball on national security and then missappropriated 9/11 to wage a war on false pretenses. You can bet if they did that many of those who were previously dismissive of bush's use of these ads would have a hissyfit.

I guess its all in how you spin it.

mml

Forgive me if I am splitting hairs, but I have no issue with the Bush campaign referencing 9/11. It is a seminal event in U.S. history. Whether I like him or not, President Bush rose to the occation and led this country through an incredibly trying time.

What I do have an issue with is the image of a body, draped in the flag, being carried by rescuers. It is only flashed for a second, as though they thought it would be subliminal. I find it disgraceful that they would use the image of an American who lost their life to further their political fortunes. This is the same White House that (rightfully) forbade the T.V. Networks from filming the return of slain soldiers from Afganistan and Iraq. Apparently it is not permissible to record the return of deceased U.S. servicemen and women, but we can show victims of terrorism for political gain.


And Mojo I lost two good friends on 9/11 and a dear friend in the bombing on Bali so I have felt the pain of terrorism. I also have a friend who, like you, watched the towers fall. He is a staunch Republican and called me today to ask about how to get involved in Kerry's campaign after seeing the Bush ad.

This add was a mistake, but the rest of them are frankly fantastic.

And I am not trying to be a jerk, but when Bush threw out the first pitch he was wearing a bullet proof vest. I still thought it was great and inspiring but he wasn't without protection.

Go Diamondbacks

__________________
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
-Douglas Adams

irateplatypus

strange famous: i'll grant you that there is a case to be argued that President Bush shouldn't have used those images in a campaign add... but to imply that this is a new low in politics is just too dramatic for me.

mml: if someone switches presidential candidates and joins the formerly opposing campaign after viewing a single ad, i seriously doubt they would fit the description of "staunch republican." obviously, you know this person... and i don't. still, that doesn't seem very believable.

my personal opinion is that the democratic strategists know that the war on terror has been prosecuted effectively by the President and will do what they can to take the leverage he holds from this issue away from him. the whole uproar over this in light of the countless other attacks (from both sides) smacks of sanctimony and hypocrisy.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

tecoyah

I have always found it fascinating to watch the dems and reps slug it out, whether on the scale of all of us here, or the world stage. It all comes down to the nature of humans....honestly there is very little difference between the two.
Kerry and Bush are both dirty, and corrupt. Both have major issues of credibility and financial indescretion. And both reak of special interests.
As an independent, I will be voting for the lesser of two evils(one of the few times this statement is entirely accurate). Thus , with hesitation I give my vote to Kerry, If only to protect this country and its population from becoming pawns of corporate ownership.
I do take issue with the Bush Ad, but I will take issue with Kerry Ads as well. I am sure. And although this is indeed a new low, I am relatively resigned to a series of lows over the next eight months, on both sides.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

onetime2

Go ahead and label me a "Bush Apologist" so you can discount my opinion, but you can not discuss or portray the last four years accurately without including the events of 9/11.

As others have said, people are already forgetting the terror generated on 9/11.

The main reason for the war on terror is 9/11.

Opponents are attacking Bush for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq which rose from 9/11 (go ahead and claim Iraq was planned before 9/11 we've heard it all before).

I am not offended in the least. The flag draped coffin is a testament to the sacrifice of firefighters, police, and ordinary citizens who gave their lives on 9/11. Overall I think it's a positive message which shows the unbelievable ability of our citizens to get the job done in the face of monumental tragedy.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Bookman

Its Bullsh*t.
There is still no justification for the post-9/11 actions. The president will not answer questions asked of him. Investigations into the tragedy are blocked...& then you go and use the images for political reasons.

People complaining have every right to complain & furthermore the administration will continue to enable them to complain until all their questions are answered.

This administration is supposed to work for us.

Sparhawk

All politics is personal, and the firefighters are pissed:

I suppose I can't blame 'em, I'd be pissed if they come out with a campaign ad of Bush preening on the flight deck of the Enterprise.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

maximusveritas

If you want to talk about hypocrisy, how about the fact that when John Edwards criticized the Bush campaign for exploiting 9-11, a Bush campaign spokesman said "I can't believe he said that. They are playing politics with a national tragedy." Give me a break.
It's not the fact that Bush is talking about 9-11 that bothers me and most other people. It's the fact that he's trying to exploit it for purely political reasons in a campaign ad. That's cheap and shameful and I would say the exact same thing if it was coming from the other side of the aisle.

Bill O'Rights

*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*


maximusveritas wins the giant stuffed teddy bear, for "getting it".

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

onetime2

Whereas, the IAFF backs which candidate?

http://www.firefightersforkerry.com/...resolution.php

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Ustwo

This is such a whiney joke.

These 'adds' are not selling soap, its to determine who is the president for the next 4 years.

If democrats want to whine, thats fine, its what they do.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Ustwo

Laugh a Union that doesn't like Bush, thats unpossible! Next thing you will tell me is the NEA doesn't support the adds either!

I don't know firefighter union leadership, I do know firefighters, they like Bush

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

iccky

Except that its pretty clearly true. Look st the memos Paul O'Neil released and there you have it, an invasion of Iraq on the agenda of a national security meeting right after Bush takes office, long before 9/11. No one from the Bush camp has denied this, to my knowledge. In Bob Woodwrd's Bush at war using the 9/11 attacks as a pretext to launch a long-planned invasion of Iraq comes up in one of the first National Security Council meetings after the attack.

I agree that some of the imagrey in the ads is in poor taste, particularly the coffin draped in the American flag. At the same time, making 9/11, or Bush's leadership right after 9/11, off-limits is bullshit. Saying "Our country went through a trying time, and I led us through it" is not low politics, its a statement of a perfectly valid reason why we might want to reelect Bush.

Note that generally I'm in the anyone-but-Bush crowd.

Bookman

Not w/out full disclosure on the tragedy. This has SIMPLY not happened.

iccky

I agree that its highly ironic that Bush is highlighting his leadership during 9/11 at the same time members of his administration are refusing to testify before the 9/11 investigation committee and members of his party are trying to deny that committee more time to work.

mml

That is a fair statement, and yes he has been more and more dissatisfied with the Bush Administration as time has gone on. This was simply the final straw. He is a "Goldwater Republican" and doesn't like the excessive spending and overly religious tone of the Bush Administration.(His words, not mine)

And as far as discussing 9/11 during this election, of course we must. As I said it is an integral part of Bush's presidency and American history. Again, I do not fault him for refering to 9/11 or even showing the ruins. I fault him and his campaign for using the image of a dead body draped in a flag. I think it is in poor taste and offensive. If Kerry uses that type of imagery I will slam him as well.

onetime2

There have been "plans" for an Iraq invasion since before the first gulf war. I don't doubt that it was on the agenda for meetings in the Clinton administration as well. It doesn't change the fact that the invasion would likely not have happened if not for 9/11.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

Sparhawk

Well, they definitely don't like being called terrorists.

I guess the firefighters in your Ladder aren't having their first-responder funding cut in the FY05 budget, aren't lacking training and personnel, and don't have outdated equipment.

Must be a nice neighborhood. Have any rooms to let?

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Ustwo

Oak Lawn, Il, blue collar town, I'm sure you can find cheap housing.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

dy156

It happened. We know it did. It matters. It matters how the situation was handled. Many people died in Vietnam. That also is being used for political gain, and an argument could be made that Vietnam is relevant too. While distasteful, (I would not have done it had I been Bush's campaign manager) we should not pretend that it did not happen, nor that it is not relevant to the campaign.


edit:
I kinda hope these threads don't get merged, because I there are alot of people that don't look at tilted politics very regularly, and you can usually predict what those that do will say. I'm curious what the TFP in general thinks.

edit to edit: Oh well.

dy156

Well said, mml.

ChrisJericho

The ads showing just a tattered flag are fine with me, obviously this was a major event that happened during the Bush administration. However, showing firefighters carrying a body out of ground zero is crossing the line and in my opinion disrespectful to those who lost loved ones on that day.

__________________
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

clavus

WTC ad - short version
~~~~~~~
"Hi, I’m George W. Bush. I was in charge of keeping America safe when THIS happened.

Please re-elect me."

__________________
Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

smooth

I'm curious how he can reconcile his current actions with this reported earlier statement:

--http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/03/05/1078464644489.html

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

Sparhawk

Yes, it's especially hard to swallow when you consider that they won't allow the filming of dead soldiers coming home from Iraq.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Glad-I-Ate-Her

I know 17 NYC firefighters personally. I have spoken to 9 of them in the last two days. None of them found the ad disgraceful or tasteless. Some of them thought that it was a reminder of what they went through and what most citizens have forgotten.

Bush was President during that fateful day. Doesn't he have the right to mention it? I'm sure past Presidents have used wars and or tragedies in their campaigns in the past. Doesn't Giuliani have the right to mention 9/11 in a book or in any speach that he is paid to speak in?

9/11 is a reality. Sometimes people are too wrapped in their own lives to remember what happened only two and half years ago. It seems to me like it happened so long ago.

I was only a few blocks away when the towers fell. I don't know if I can ever correctly explain what I saw or how I felt on 9/11.

Glad

__________________
I'm "Glad I Ate Her" because the payback was worth it!!

redrum

I see you put president in quotes

how odd, perhaps you would rather someone be president who would have done nothing when the attack occured?

perhaps your 'democratic front runner kerry' can win over the hearts of the country with his ads on his 'vietnam' service, where more than 3000 americans died.

But then again, the world is fine when you look at it through rose glasses.

__________________
"you say erb....we say herb.....because theres a fucking H in it"

redrum

the president ISNT in charge of keeping the country safe, thats what we have countless other agencies for, and they failed us, not once but twice. And if Clinton had fineshed the job in the first fucking place we wouldn't be talking about this now. But instead we get these dense ABB politics.

__________________
"you say erb....we say herb.....because theres a fucking H in it"

Lebell

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU!

Please Donate!

tehblaed

I think America has turned the whole 180 degrees and started running in reverse when chance and ill luck, along with the deaths of thousands can be used to promote someone's personal standing in the social and political climate.


Amen, and I'm not even a religious man.

Strange Famous

What job do you think Clinton could have "finished" that would have prevented the attack on America? Did you want him to declare war on Saudi Arabia?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

pan6467

Amen my Brother.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

JBX

Holy Shit, the ideology on this thread is so politically motivated. It has nothing to do with the Terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, Pentagon and a third target that ended in failure after a brave fight for control of an airplane. Now, I must admit, President Bush did miss the mark on this re-election ad. He should have shown the damn planes flying into the buildings, our brothers and sisters jumping to their deaths, burnt bodies in the Pentagon, a ditch in Pennsylvania to remind us what we’re doing. The world is a dangerous place and putting our heads in the sand pretending nothing bad happens and innocent people don’t die is absurd. What ever happened to “NEVER FORGET” just 2 years later? It’s time we take off our skirts and get down to the grim business of protecting ourselves. By the way, before you pull a voting lever in November, just think who, if they had a choice, would our terrorist enemies would vote for. KIM Chong-il already endorsed Senator Kerry. Hmm, how come?

__________________
"Youth and Strength is no match for Age and Treachery"

filtherton

Speaking of politically motivated ideology on this thread...
Yeah, and i hear that saddam endorsed the reagan administration. Didn't seem to hurt his election chances.