Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - Crisis in Haiti! The U.S. is Involved.

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hammer4all

02-27-2004 09:54 PM

Crisis in Haiti! The U.S. is Involved.

I know many of you are probably only vaguely aware of what's happening in Haiti right now, but you should really want to know more because the United States is playing a large part in the overthrow of their democratically elected leader, President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

Democracy Now! has just got done interviewing Haitian First Lady, Mildred Aristide, from inside the Presidential palace in the capital city of Port Au Prince today (Friday). They also interviewed independent reporter Kevin Pina, U.S. Reps. John Conyers (D-MI) and Maxine Waters (D-CA) and attorney Michael Ratner. Please, I urge everyone to download and listen to this interview here:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid...4/02/28/0133217

Expose this salutation for what is. Everyone needs to write letters and emails to your congressmen to get them to stop this coup from happening!

The U.S. corporate media are hiding the facts. Make yourself aware to what is going on. Here are a few links for reference.

Counter Spin had a quick, but good overview on the situation last week.
http://www.fair.org/counterspin/022004.html

Democracy Now! has been tracking it almost daily here:
http://www.democracynow.org/static/haiti.shtml

More links here:
http://www.haitiaction.net/
http://tinyurl.com/2nmsh
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=...tnG=Search+News

Ustwo

02-27-2004 10:01 PM

http://paranoiafiles.com/images/tinfoil_hat.jpg

I am now protected from the corporate media.

Mojo_PeiPei

02-27-2004 10:02 PM

People seem mad wicked pissed at this dude, I say if they so desire give the dude the 86.

Lebell

02-27-2004 11:14 PM

That darned evil US is at it again.

Last week I hear it beat up some kid for his lunch money.

hammer4all

02-28-2004 12:06 AM

"The graetest enemy of knowledge isn't the ignorance of knowledge but the illusion of it." -- Stephen Hawking

Scipio

02-28-2004 12:27 AM

The response has been pretty interesting. The money quote in my local paper from the President was a reassurance that we will stop haitian refugees from entering the country. Kinda wierd.

From what I hear, Aristide, despite being popularly elected, is now being semi-popularly overthrown. Unfortunately, insurgent leaders are often shady characters. It remains to be seen what will happen in this case.

Lebell

02-28-2004 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hammer4all
"The graetest enemy of knowledge isn't the ignorance of knowledge but the illusion of it." -- Stephen Hawking

I love Stephen Hawking.

Here's another quote (not his, however)

Quote:

To be a persecuted genius you not only have to be persecuted, but you have to be right.

stevie667

02-28-2004 03:46 AM

'i don't matter if your the braniest guy on earth, if that dude is stupid but wise, your still screwed' - my mate bob before he collapsed onto the pub floor, doesn't quite have the same effect without the drunken sluring, but i still think it's a good quote.

filtherton

02-28-2004 07:39 AM

Didn't the us go out of its way to put down a military coup a few years ago? Maybe this aristide fella really is a fuckup.

hammer4all

02-28-2004 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by filtherton
Didn't the us go out of its way to put down a military coup a few years ago?

Yes, a coup that the CIA backed opposition started. Some of the same people who ran that coup are now running this coup.

Quote:

Many of the men leading the armed insurrection in Haiti right now are well known to veteran Haiti observers and, for that matter, the US intelligence agencies that worked closely with the paramilitary death squads which terrorized Haiti in the early 1990s. People like Louis Jodel Chamblain, the former number 2 man in FRAPH, Guy Philippe, a former police chief who was trained by US Special forces in Ecuador and Jean Tatun, another leader of FRAPH.

link

It is not like this is unprecedented guys... I could give you many examples, even a more recent example. These covert operations often have tragic consequences for both us and the countries involved and should not be taken lightly.

seretogis

02-28-2004 05:48 PM

*waves goodbye to Aristide*

Hopefully Haitians will be better off without him. From what I've read about corruption in the current political setup in Haiti, a good ol' fashioned revolution is what they need to weed out the corrupt politicians.

hammer4all

02-29-2004 01:37 AM

Here is a great Op-Ed that was published in The New York Times, which addresses the media's distortion of the facts and our government's "rather brazen attempts to undermine [Aristide's] presidency."

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0226-03.htm

Also, here are some more links:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ha...ign_Haiti.html
http://dominionpaper.ca/haiti/
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ch...ian_Haiti.html
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nation...orld-headlines
http://www.blackcommentator.com/79/79_haiti_dogs.html

hammer4all

02-29-2004 03:49 AM

Finally, the truth comes out!

Quote:

Cap-Haitien, Haiti -- In just three weeks, the National Resistance Front, the rebel group that is threatening to topple the government of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, has swept through northern Haiti with ease.

Last week, it captured several more towns without facing down a single bullet and is now within miles of the capital, Port-au-Prince. As word of the rebel approach reaches towns, Haitian police officers are simply shedding their uniforms and disappearing into the hills.

Yet the insurgents' swift victories and rising popularity may have more to do with their bravado and the reputations of their leaders than with military prowess. Western diplomatic sources estimate their numbers at no more than a few hundred men, even with the new volunteers in Cap-Haitien and in villages, but the rebel commanders have well-known checkered pasts as army and police officers, drug traffickers and death squad leaders.

"The people are happy," the Front's nominal leader, Guy Philippe, told reporters last week as he listened from the balcony of a plush hillside hotel headquarters in Cap-Haitien to a group of people in the shantytowns below singing. "Here in Cap-Haitien, we have more than 100 young people ready to die for the cause, ready to die for the country."

Philippe is a former army lieutenant and police captain. The front's second in command, Gilberto Dragon, is a former military officer and police major. They trained in Ecuador together and both are cited in numerous Haitian government and diplomatic reports for their involvement in drug trafficking and racketeering.

The Front's strongman, Louis Jodel Chamblain, is a former army officer who later headed the Front for the Advancement of the Haitian People or FRAPH, a paramilitary organization responsible for thousands of murders of Aristide followers in the early 1990s.

Other former FRAPH members, including Jean-Pierre Baptiste, alias Jean Tatoune, have also joined the insurgency. Baptiste and Chamblain were convicted in absentia for massacring 25 Aristide supporters in a seaside slum known as Raboteau in the northern city of Gonaives in 1994. In 1995, Chamblain fled the country and has been residing in the neighboring Dominican Republic ever since. Baptiste was sent to prison for life for his role in the murder of Aristide supporters. He joined the revolt after former Aristide loyalists broke him out of a Gonaives jail in 2002.

Early on Saturday, the capital remained relatively calm, despite a burst of bloody chaos the previous day. Aristide, appearing on national television, called for an end to the bedlam, saying "looting is bad." He also urged the government's 46,000 employees to go back to work on Monday and called for schools to reopen.

Pro-Aristide armed gangs were still out in force in Port-au-Prince on Saturday, but so were more police, although their numbers were still small.

Cap-Haitien, the country's second largest city, fell into rebel hands in a matter of hours last Sunday. Philippe is promising the capital will be next, although he said Saturday that his troops would hold off for now, in response to U.S. Ambassador James Foley's appeal for peace.

"We always give peace a chance here, so we'll wait to see for one or two days," Philippe said in Cap-Haitien. "We will keep on sending troops, but we won't attack Port-au-Prince until we understand what the U.S. means."

So far, about 100 people, about half of them from the poorly equipped police force that is the government's only defense, have died in the insurgency against Aristide, a former priest who became Haiti's first freely elected president in 1990.

As they approach the National Palace, the rebels say they don't intend to govern Haiti. "We don't have any political platform," Philippe said. "We are fighting for a better country. As soon as Aristide leaves, we are ready to give our weapons to, I don't know, the new government."

Philippe, Dragon and Chamblain all said they were fighting for the restitution of the army, which Aristide disbanded in 1994.

"The army was demobilized. Now the army has been remobilized and is a constitutional army," said Chamblain, a husky, serene man. "Aristide has two choices: prison or execution by firing squad."

Chamblain's fight with Aristide is personal as well as political. After the military ousted Aristide following just seven months in office, violence ensued, during which, Chamblain said, pro-Aristide militias clubbed his pregnant wife to death in their home. "It's very hard," he said of the memory. "It gives me more (incentive) to fight."

Chamblain helped form FRAPH, which he claims was a political organization. But rights groups say the paramilitary group employed systematic rape and torture against its enemies.

"Given the horrendous human rights records of some of the leaders of the armed rebellion, we are extremely concerned that the rebel forces will take advantage of the opportunity to settle scores," said Joanne Mariner, deputy director of Human Rights Watch's Americas Division.

"These men, notorious for killings and other abuses during the military government, must not be allowed to take violent reprisals against government loyalists."

The repression of civil society sparked an exodus of refugees, and the United Nations authorized intervention, but the military stepped down before U. S. troops occupied the country. Once back in office, Aristide disbanded the army and replaced it with a small police force -- a force now filled with no- show officers, commanded by the president's cronies and corrupted by cocaine, according to a recent State Department report.

Both Philippe and Dragon were part this new police force. They and 10 other officers soon took on the name "Latinos," because they'd trained together in Ecuador, spoke Spanish and stuck together. "We lived in the same house for years," Dragon explained in the rebels' Cap-Haitien hotel headquarters. "And we were loyal to the military institution."

In Ecuador, Philippe became the undisputed leader of the group. And in Haiti, he kept in close contact with his team, even as they rose through the ranks in different parts of the country. Philippe became the police chief of Cap-Haitien; Dragon, the commisaire of an important area in Port-au-Prince. Throughout, they maintained their esprit de corps. "We're not former military; we are military," Philippe said. "We are soldiers."

They also began collecting bribes for the drugs that easily pass through this nation of 8 million people. Internal reports from foreign observers found that the "Latinos" routinely gave gifts to politicians and once squeezed the government into exiling its inspector general after the seizure of more than three-quarters of a ton of cocaine implicated the men. Philippe, who trained with U.S. Secret Service in 1995, fled Haiti in 2000, after he and the "Latinos" were tied to a coup plot. He denied that he or the insurgent group he now leads had anything to do with coup attempts or drugs. "I'm an open book, " he declared.

Philippe studied medicine in Puebla, Mexico, before joining the military. While he was in Ecuador he met and married a woman from Wisconsin. His heroes include U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. "I like tough guys. The guys that protect their country," he said.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NG485ATLK1.DTL

hammer4all

02-29-2004 04:48 AM

More tidbits... This time from The New York Times.

Quote:

That past is entwined with American history. United States forces occupied Haiti from 1915 to 1934. They created the modern Haitian Army, dissolved Parliament and imposed martial law in those years. In the 1980's and early 1990's, the United States Central Intelligence Agency had important senior Haitian Army officers and Fraph members on its payroll, according to American officials.

[skipped a bunch]

"There is no such thing as the former Haitian Army," said Mr. Ravix, a bull-necked, barrel-chested man, still bitter about the army's dissolution. "Aristide made a big mistake sending us home with our guns."

If this is indeed "the new Haitian army," as Mr. Ravix says, it represents the revival of a force that has always served Haiti's tiny elite, less than two percent of the people holding at least half the nation's wealth.

The armed rebels are not a large force. They may number as few as 500 trained fighters, American officials believe. It is an open question whether a force that size could seize this sprawling capital. But it has proved capable of creating fear and havoc.

Their assault weapons and crisp camouflage uniforms suggest the rebels have outside support. Mr. Philippe said his force was receiving donations from Haitian exiles in the United States and Canada. In a country where drug money flows freely, government officials have accused the rebels of financing their assault with money from Colombian cocaine cartels.

From the 1980's into the early 1990's, the Haitian Army and its National Intelligence Service — an agency created and financed by the C.I.A. — committed acts of terror and trafficked in cocaine, according to American officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/29/in...partner=GOOGLE

onetime2

02-29-2004 08:26 AM

Hmmmm, let's see...

Aristide has been in power for how long? And Haiti has improved in what way(s)? Still the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere. 70% unemployment, the nation has been stripped of trees for fuel, the removal of trees has allowed the topsoil to run off into the streams and ocean. The nation as a whole is completely reliant on international aid.

Despite US/UN intervention which kept Arisitide in power less than 10 years ago, he's being overthrown again. I can't say I blame the "insurgents".

gabshu

02-29-2004 09:24 AM

I think people in the developed world have no idea how bad things in these countries can get. Aristide has done nothing good for Haiti, he rigged elections to get into power. The US is not trying to ouster him. They are not even very much involved (probably to the dislike of most Hatians). If the guy has managed to get the country into the mess its in, he should resing.
Please think about these issues critically before listening and believing everything one organization or other has writen.

That said I really hate it when people don't know about the situations in these countries, read something and then go on to critizese everything the US does. This topic is very personal to me, because I come from a country where there is one of "democratically elected" presidents, who have completely lost support of the people and turn to violence against regular citizens. The United States is not trying to overthrow the government in Haiti, I doubt they really care that much, Aristide will have to go because he has failed

Scipio

02-29-2004 12:14 PM

News sources are reporting today that Aristide has stepped down, his constitutional successor (the Chief Justice) has stepped up, and that all this was facilitated by the US.

doncalypso

02-29-2004 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
News sources are reporting today that Aristide has stepped down, his constitutional successor (the Chief Justice) has stepped up, and that all this was facilitated by the US.

Aristide did not step down... A contingent of US troops (and possibly some Frenchies and Canadians) stormed the national palace and told him he had to vacate the country.

Initially he tried to negociate certain conditions for his departures--conditions to which the US initially accepted. However, when he stopped by his mansion to pick up some belongings he reneged on his agreements (as he has done repeatedly in the past) and claimed he was here to stay. Word has it that they roughed him up a little, put handcuffs on him, and carried him off to the airport where he was put in a small unmarked business jet and flown off to the Dominican Republic awaiting acceptance from a country to take him into exile.

Apparently Taiwan, Panama, and Morocco have refused to grant him exile....so it is likely he might end up in South Africa since Thabo Mbeki seems to be buddy-buddy with him.

I just wish the US troops had kept him in Haiti long enough for the Haitian people to judge and execute him for his crimes.

smooth

02-29-2004 01:23 PM

What crimes has he committed?

If anyone would like to read this man's achievements and work toward democracy and human rights in a ravaged nation, here is a biography from haiti.org:

Quote:

Jean-Bertrand Aristide was born on July 15, 1953 in the coastal town of Port-Salut, Haiti. At an early age he, his sister and mother moved to the capital city of Port-au-Prince. He attended schools run by the Salesian Fathers of Haiti and graduated from College Notre Dame in the historic town of Cap-Haitian in 1974.

Aristide went to do novitiate studies at the Salesian seminary in La Vega in the neighboring Dominican Republic. A year later Aristide returned to Haiti to continue post graduate studies in philosophy at the Grand Seminaire Notre Dame and post graduate studies in psychology at the State University of Haiti. After completing his studies in Haiti in 1979 Aristide traveled to Rome and then to Israel where he spent two years studying biblical theology.

On July 3, 1983 Aristide returned home for his ordination by Haitian Bishop Willy Romélus. He was appointed curate of St. Joseph's church, a poor parish on the outskirts of Port-au-Prince. As a parish priest, Aristide shared in the lives and struggles of his parishioners and quickly became their spokesperson.

He later moved to St. Jean Bosco, a church on the edge of La Saline, one of the largest slums of Port-au-Prince. Aristide known affectionately as "Titid" to his parishioners quickly became a leading spokesperson of "ti legliz," the progressive wing of the Catholic church in Haiti. Aristide's message of hope, his unique ability to communicate with the Haitian people in Creole, and his affirmation of the human dignity of each person - summed up in the Haitian proverb he often cited "tout moun se moun," every human being is a human being, regularly attracted thousands of participants to mass. Aristide was an outspoken critic of the Duvalier regime, and of the social system which condemned 85% of the population to abject poverty. He rose to national prominence through the broadcasts of his sermons on the Catholic station, Radio Soleil.

Shortly after Duvalier's fall in April of 1986 Aristide led a memorial march to notorious Fort Dimanche prison in memory of the 30,000 Haitians who lost their lives there under Duvalier. The Haitian military opened fire on the crowd of praying demonstrators but Aristide continued a live broadcast on Radio Soleil during the massacre, confirming his reputation as a fearless opponent of the regime.

Aristide became a target of repression by the military governments that held power after Duvalier's fall. He survived at least 9 attempts on his life. On September 11, 1988 St. Jean Bosco was attacked by a group of armed thugs while Aristide was giving mass. Dozens of congregants were murdered and the church was burned to the ground, destroying the symbolic heart of the ti legliz movement. A week later, partly due to the general revulsion at this act of brutality, the military junta fell. Aristide was expelled from the Salesian order on the grounds that he had crossed the border between religion and politics.

Though his church had been burned down Aristide's popularity among the Haitian poor only grew. He continued to play a leading role in the movement for democracy through the difficult and dangerous years of 1989 and 1990. He also dedicated more of his time to La Fanmi Selavi (the Family is life), a home for street children he founded in 1986.

In the fall of 1990 Haiti prepared for presidential elections that many feared would end in violence as they did in 1987 when voters were massacred at the voting poles. On the final day of registration Aristide announced his candidacy for the presidency. The announcement electrified the country and after a six week campaign that Aristide dubbed "Lavalas" or a cleansing flood, he was elected president in Haiti's first free and fair election with an overwhelming 67% of the vote. On the eve of his inauguration violence struck again as arsonists set fire to La Fanmi Selavi, killing four children.

During Aristide's seven months in office his government pursued a program of change based of the principles of participation, transparence and justice.

The Lavalas government began the difficult tasks of cleaning out a corrupt civil service, enforcing tax codes, fighting drug trafficking, and delivering services to its citizens. There was relative security, with military violence and criminal activity sharply reduced. Human rights organizations reported a dramatic drop in violations, the flow of refugees came to a halt, and not a single extrajudicial execution was attributed to the government during this period. The international community applauded the numerous reforms undertaken and donors pledged funds to the new government.

All of this ended on September 30, 1991, when the Haitian military violently overthrew the democratic government. Aristide was forced into exile, and the military unleashed an unprecedented campaign of terror and violence taking the lives of more than 5000 Haitian over the next three years, hundreds of thousands were forced into hiding, and tens of thousands more fled their homeland by boat. The coup targeted peasant organizations, members of the ti legliz, journalists, students, political activists, and neighborhoods that were strongholds of support for Aristide. Despite this repression the majority of Haitians continued to support Aristide and to nonviolently resist the military regime.

President Aristide first went to Venezuela and then spent two and half years of exile in Washington DC. Throughout his 1,111 days in exile he was recognized internationally as the legitimate President of Haiti. President Aristide worked nonstop, pursuing numerous diplomatic initiatives aimed at resolving the crisis and challenging the international community to work with the Haitian people to restore democracy to Haiti. Traveling throughout Europe, Latin America, Africa, and the United States speaking against the violence and repression that reigned in Haiti he urged international support for Haiti's cause and maintained close contact with the large Haitian diaspora.

On October 15, 1994, President Aristide triumphantly returned to Haiti where he completed the last sixteen months of his presidential term. He returned to a country traumatized by the violence of the coup period and economically devastated. His commitment to justice, and his calls for peaceful rebuilding of the nation enabled the country to regain political stability and take the first steps towards economic recovery. His most significant act as President was to dismantle the Haitian military. His government created Haiti's first civilian police force. With the support of the United Nations legislative elections were held and in February 1996 Haiti witnessed its first peaceful transition from one democratically elected president to the next.

After completing his five year term as President, Aristide founded the Aristide Foundation for Democracy. Under Aristide's leadership the Foundation is dedicated to deepening the roots of Haiti's democracy by opening avenues of participation to all Haitians. The foundation has three major program areas: sponsoring forums and public dialogues on issues such as justice, land reform, and the economic future of the nation; supporting literacy programs in Haiti; and fostering community-based economic initiatives.

President Aristide has been honored and recognized worldwide for his commitment to nonviolence, peace and justice. A partial list of awards he has received includes the Oscar Romero Award, the Martin Luther King International Statesman and Ecumenical Award, and the Aix-la-Chappelle Peace Prize.

In January 1996 Aristide married Mildred Trouillot, a Haitian-American lawyer who served as a legal advisor to the government of Haiti while Aristide was in exile and after his return to Haiti in 1994. They have two daughters.

President Aristide has authored several books including: Why (1978); Raise the Table (1986); 100 Verses of Dechoukaj (1986); The Truth in Truth (1989); In the Parish of the Poor (1990); Aristide: An Autobiography (1992); Theology and and Politics (1993); Dignity (1995); and Eyes of the Heart: Seeking a Path for the Poor in the Age of Globalization (2000). He is fluent in Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Hebrew, English and in his native Creole and French. Aristide is an accomplished musician and composer, he plays the guitar, saxophone, organ, drums, clarinet and piano.

http://www.haiti.org/aristide-bio.htm

hammer4all

02-29-2004 02:46 PM

Quote:

HAITIAN leader Jean Bertrand Aristide was taken away from his home by US soldiers, it was claimed today.

A man who said he was a caretaker for the now exiled president told France's RTL radio station the troops forced Aristide out.

"The American army came to take him away at two in the morning," the man said.

"The Americans forced him out with weapons.

"It was American soldiers. They came with a helicopter and they took the security guards.

"(Aristide) was not happy. He did not want to be taken away. He did not want to leave. He was not able to fight against the Americans."

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0...55E1702,00.html

hammer4all

02-29-2004 02:49 PM

Quote:

HAITI IN CRISIS: Democracy Now! / Pacifica Radio Special on the Haiti Crisis Tonight 7-9 p.m.

On Sunday night Democracy Now! and Pacifica Radio will broadcast a two-hour special national broadcast beginning at 7 p.m. on the departure of President Aristide, the involvement of the US government, and the latest reports on the ground in Haiti. Join Democracy Now's Amy Goodman and Flashpoints' Dennis Bernstein.

http://www.democracynow.org/

I think that is 7:00pm eastern time.

Democracy Now! was the only U.S. news show that correctly reported it from the beginning.

doncalypso

02-29-2004 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hammer4all
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0...55E1702,00.html

It was all a front....

Maybe in the beginning he was truly trying to bring democracy back into Haitian politics, but he got corrupted by lust for money and power.

I don't know if you're Haitian and if you've lived in Haiti under Aristide, but I have seen what it's like to live under that bastard, and I can guarantee you that his goals were far from democratic.

hammer4all

02-29-2004 11:26 PM

No, I am not Haitian nor do I personally know any, but there are evidently quite a few who still have a more positive opinion of Mr. Aristide.

http://members.cox.net/gamingdirk/stuff/feb6card.jpg

I myself have similar feelings as you, only about President Bush, but I don't support his ouster by a group of militant thugs financed and supported by a foreign nation. I think there are better, more democratic means for regime change in a democratic society.

hammer4all

03-01-2004 02:45 AM

Quote:

The departure of Haiti's Jean-Bertrand Aristide is a victory for a Bush administration hard-liner who has been long dedicated to Aristide's ouster, U.S. foreign policy analysts say.

That official is Roger Noriega, assistant U.S. secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, whose influence over U.S. policy toward Haiti has increased during the past decade as he climbed the diplomatic ladder in Washington.

"Roger Noriega has been dedicated to ousting Aristide for many, many years, and now he's in a singularly powerful position to accomplish it," Robert White, a former U.S. ambassador to El Salvador and Paraguay, said last week.

White, now president of the Center for International Policy, a think tank in Washington, said Noriega's ascent largely has been attributed to his ties to North Carolina Republican Jesse Helms, an arch-conservative foe of Aristide who had behind-the-scenes influence over policy toward Latin America and the Caribbean before retiring from the Senate two years ago.

"Helms didn't just dislike Aristide, Helms loathed Aristide because he saw in Aristide another Castro," said Larry Birns, director of the Washington-based Council on Hemispheric Affairs, which has been strongly critical of the Bush administration's policy on Haiti.

Working hand in hand with Noriega on Haiti has been National Security Council envoy Otto Reich, who, like Noriega, is ardently opposed to Cuban leader Fidel Castro, say analysts such as Birns. Washington diplomats have seen Aristide as a leftist who is often fierce in his denunciations of the business class and slow to make recommended changes such as privatizing state-run industries.

"On a day-to-day basis, Roger Noriega [has been] making policy, but with a very strong role played by Otto Reich," Birns said.

Reich is a controversial Cuban-American criticized by some who have lingering concerns about his contacts with opposition figures who plotted a short-lived coup against Venezuela's leftist president, Hugo Chávez, two years ago. Reich also is linked to the Iran-contra scandal of two decades ago that was part of President Ronald Reagan's policy of defeating Marxists in Central America.

Noriega's involvement with Haiti dates back more than a decade. In the early 1990s he was an adviser at the U.S. mission to the Organization of American States. Between 1994 and 1997, he served as a senior staff member on the House of Representatives' Committee on International Relations. Then, in 1997, he went to work for the Senate's Committee on Foreign Relations as a top aide to Helms.

Helms was passionate in his dislike of Aristide and tried mightily to stop President Bill Clinton from sending troops to restore Aristide to power in 1994 after his violent ouster three years previously. In an attempt to forestall that military action, Helms released a now-discredited CIA report purporting to show Aristide was "psychotic."

Helms found a like-minded official in Noriega, who fed the senator's hostility toward Aristide, said Robert Maguire of Trinity College in Washington.

"Roger Noriega always sought to have a long leash when it came to Haiti, and Helms was more than happy to accommodate anti-Aristide feelings," Maguire said.

In 2001, with Helms' strong backing, Noriega, a Kansas native of Mexican descent, was appointed U.S. permanent representative to the Organization of American States.

In their various foreign policy postings during the past several years, Noriega and Reich became behind-the-scenes leaders of "a relatively small group of people" who developed strategies toward Haiti, Maguire said.

Reich and Noriega had no comment. State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos said Noriega "likes to stick to the business of the department," and requests for comments from Reich made by fax to Fred Jones, a National Security Council official, were not answered.

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nation...news-headlines

Democracy Now! reported late Sunday that Aristide was seen by two different sources (one an ABC camera man?) who said they saw Aristide being escorted out of his Palace in handcuffs by 10 U.S. Marines... You can listen here:

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../02/29/2053220

onetime2

03-01-2004 05:06 AM

Well of course. It's Bush's fault. The all knowing all powerful Wizard of US. For all those that claim he's such an idiot, he sure seems to be able to control everything. :rolleyes:

HarmlessRabbit

03-01-2004 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by onetime2
Well of course. It's Bush's fault. The all knowing all powerful Wizard of US. For all those that claim he's such an idiot, he sure seems to be able to control everything. :rolleyes:

Dorothy from Oz called, she would like her straw man back.

Supple Cow

03-01-2004 07:52 AM

US involvement aside, I don't appreciate this Democracy Now group trying to stop a coup in a country where the majority of the citizens believe that the coup is necessary AND where there is evidence of crimes against humanity on the part of the leader being ousted. Many of my Haitian friends are making plans to fly back and fight the revolution - to die for this when they could remain comfortably here at college in the States. This sure makes me question all of the activist groups that tell me to write a letter to somebody in charge in order to tell them that I feel strongly about something that I just learned about by reading one-sided propaganda.

smooth

03-01-2004 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Supple Cow
US involvement aside, I don't appreciate this Democracy Now group trying to stop a coup in a country where the majority of the citizens believe that the coup is necessary AND where there is evidence of crimes against humanity on the part of the leader being ousted. Many of my Haitian friends are making plans to fly back and fight the revolution - to die for this when they could remain comfortably here at college in the States. This sure makes me question all of the activist groups that tell me to write a letter to somebody in charge in order to tell them that I feel strongly about something that I just learned about by reading one-sided propaganda.

I don't know why our Haitan acquantances have such different opinions on these current events, but let us know if yours actually go back and fight in this military coup.

I'd like to know which side they're going to fight on, it might be that the "revolution" refers to a multi-sided grab for power--not just between the "people" and "Aristide."

I am not surprised that impoverished people might inaccurately lay the blame for their financial woes on their current president, when it might be otherwise more accurately placed on foreign loans and centuries of being shit upon by foreign nations.

As for human rights violations: When foreign agents, funded by the KGB or Taliban or any other foreign nation's special agency, attempt to overthrow our government structure, what would we call them? If our president put the screws to them to crush the terrorist and/or treasonist opposition (which is what we did and do call it), we didn't (communist insurection groups in the 50s), don't (elements in Guantonamo Bay currently), and wouldn't (whatever the future holds for whomever we might brand terrorists) call it human rights violations. We call it protecting our interests and democracy. Yet, when the CIA funds groups to stir up trouble in Cuba and Haiti (among other places), and Castro an Aristide respond by cracking down, our population just eats up the media's representation of the current events without regard for historical context.

onetime2

03-01-2004 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
Dorothy from Oz called, she would like her straw man back.

Perhaps Bush invaded Iraq to oil the tin man then?

This line of reasoning might work out. Perhaps US politics IS driven by the Wizard of Oz. :p

Scipio

03-01-2004 01:49 PM

Somebody on TV said we wouldn't get involved in Haiti because they didn't have the two commodities we care about: oil and white people.

Seriously though, I've heard from several sources now that Aristide's "abdication" was "helped" by the US. Most say we forced him out.

My realist side tells me that we had been talking to Aristide, asking him to resign. Resignation would have a number of positive upshots. One, it would prevent the rebels from sacking Port-au-prince. Second, the chief justice seems to be well liked, and he could succeed the president in the interim, thus maintaining political stability. Third, it would circumvent any effort by a rebel leader to seize power if Aristide was removed by force. Fourth, it might very well protect the young Haitian democracy. It seems, if these sources are true, that Aristide refused to resign. Seeing the inevitable, we chose to go through back channels, and ultimately resorted to more aggressive methods to see Aristide leave. An ugly solution to an uglier situation.

I still think it's a rather big if. It wouldn't surprise me if Aristide left in an American plane under marine escort. Who's to say?

The link above isn't quite the one. I think you meant these:

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../03/01/1521216

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../03/01/1921235

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../03/01/1929215

Then again, you might want to check out this one:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...i_18&printer=1

hammer4all

03-01-2004 04:35 PM

Aristide has now told the AP he was kidnapped.

Quote:

When asked if he left Haiti on his own, Aristide quickly answered: "No. I was forced to leave."

"Agents were telling me that if I don't leave they would start shooting and killing in a matter of time," Aristide said during the brief phone interview that was interrupted at times by static.

When asked who the agents were, he responded: "White American, white military."

"They came at night ... There were too many, I couldn't count them," he added.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...nterview_x.htm

The AP failed to even ask the most important question: Did he resign? Answer: No. Therefore he is still, legally, the President of Haiti. This is an outrage. :mad: :(

I hope everyone here has listened to this show in particular:

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../03/01/1521216

Reporter: "What do you think of western civilization?"

Ghandi: "I think it would be a good idea."

Mojo_PeiPei

03-01-2004 06:31 PM

From what it sounds like the guy was a douche. And on those grounds I could care less if he was forcefully removed, its obvious his people didn't want him there. Sure this man might not a Saddam or Milosevic but I think this quote holds true "All evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing."

Lebell

03-01-2004 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hammer4all
The AP failed to even ask the most important question: Did he resign? Answer: No. Therefore he is still, legally, the President of Haiti. This is an outrage. :mad: :(

Well,

You better be outraged at several European nations as well as the UN in general, because apparently France is sending troops and the UN voted to create a peace-keeping mission.

Ustwo

03-01-2004 06:50 PM

Conspiracy theories are fun.

The question of course is WHY?

Haiti has nothing we could want and is only a threat to itself, so WHY would be bother to overthrow the government?

Mind you I don't believe a damn thing Aristidie says, but the whole thing is quite laughable.

Buh-bye.

Scipio

03-01-2004 08:14 PM

Nonsense. We want democracy in other countries, and not only is Haiti another country, but it's in our backyard. I'm willing to dismiss Aristide's comments as mere demagoguery, but I'm not ruling out the possibility that our government played hardball in resolving this crisis (meaning I'm awaiting possible confirmation of Aristide's comments. Just because he said it doesn't mean it's not true).

Ustwo

03-01-2004 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
Nonsense. We want democracy in other countries, and not only is Haiti another country, but it's in our backyard. I'm willing to dismiss Aristide's comments as mere demagoguery, but I'm not ruling out the possibility that our government played hardball in resolving this crisis (meaning I'm awaiting possible confirmation of Aristide's comments. Just because he said it doesn't mean it's not true).

Yes but I don't hear democracy as a motive from the conspiracy guys.

Why would they complain if that were the goal?

Scipio

03-01-2004 10:32 PM

As I said earlier, it's an ugly situation, and removing an elected president from power is an ugly thing to do. Granted, there was some ballot stuffing going on in the 2000 elections, and Aristide doesn't seem that well liked, but he did have some legitimacy, and we trampled all over it. The US isn't a country that forces presidents to resign at gunpoint in the middle of the night.

The outcome might be good, but I still find that distasteful.

hammer4all

03-02-2004 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ustwo
The question of course is WHY?

Haiti has nothing we could want and is only a threat to itself, so WHY would be bother to overthrow the government?

Indeed, a legitamate question. These two links along with my post above propose some answers:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ha...ign_Haiti.html

http://dominionpaper.ca/weblog/2004/...haiti_why.html

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
Granted, there was some ballot stuffing going on in the 2000 elections, ...

Actually, this is incorrect.

Quote:

What happened in the 2000 elections?

Two elections took place in 2000. The first elections, in May, saw full participation by a range of political parties, including the Lavalas party of now-president Jean-Bertrand Aristide. In the May elections of legislators and municipal government authorities, Lavalas won by a landslide. Observers from the Organization of American States did not fault the conduct of the elections. However, in eight cases, the electoral council seated Senators who had won by a plurality of the votes, not by an absolute majority. Because these eight Senators were Lavalas party candidates, the opposition immediately cried fraud.

Knowing they would lose the presidential election in November 2000, the opposition Democratic Convergence refused to participate. They cited the eight contested senatorial elections as "proof" that the presidential vote would be rigged. In November, President Jean-Bertrand Aristide was elected.

The OAS tried, in more than 20 missions, to arrange new elections or compromise between the Democratic Convergence and the government. President Aristide persuaded seven of the eight senators to resign, clearing the way for new elections. Aristide agreed to OAS proposals for new elections. The Democratic Convergence did not.

In January, the terms of all legislators elected in 2000 expired. The opposition refused to allow new legislative elections, so now there is no legislature.

The opposition has consistently demanded-and continues to demand-that Aristide immediately leave the presidency, without completing his elected term of office, and they be put in charge of a non-elected "transition" government. They will accept nothing less. They want power, but not elections. They know they could not win elections, as they never have had anywhere near majority support.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0224-09.htm

Zander

03-02-2004 02:08 AM

Why can't the U.S. just take over the world and get it over with?

pan6467

03-02-2004 04:55 AM

He maybe a kook and a flake but Kucinich did say something yesterday that had truth to it. "I suppose if they were to find oil in Haiti we'd be there in full force tomorrow."

Anyone else see the hypocrisy between this and Iraq. Granted we had been in Iraq under 2 LIES before Bush decided to use the raison du jour. That of course is "humanitarian need to get rid of a mass murderer and all round nasty fellow". Yep, no oil we don't give a damn about your country unless you have a revolt and we're going to be getting your refugees, or you're a country in Europe, or you're a country in Africa and the black leadership wants us to prove we aren't racist.

"Gotta love Bush. He is our savior," so sayeth the man living on top of the hill while in the valley the peasants starve but have a war to keep thier minds off the truth.

onetime2

03-02-2004 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pan6467
He maybe a kook and a flake but Kucinich did say something yesterday that had truth to it. "I suppose if they were to find oil in Haiti we'd be there in full force tomorrow."

Anyone else see the hypocrisy between this and Iraq. Granted we had been in Iraq under 2 LIES before Bush decided to use the raison du jour. That of course is "humanitarian need to get rid of a mass murderer and all round nasty fellow". Yep, no oil we don't give a damn about your country unless you have a revolt and we're going to be getting your refugees, or you're a country in Europe, or you're a country in Africa and the black leadership wants us to prove we aren't racist.

"Gotta love Bush. He is our savior," so sayeth the man living on top of the hill while in the valley the peasants starve but have a war to keep thier minds off the truth.

Yeah those damned Haitian rebels killed a hundred people and Saddam only killed tens or hundreds of thousands, invaded a neighboring country, continually fired at US planes in the no fly zone, and paid Palestinian suicide bombers' families. They are identical.

The only similarity I see is that Aristide was taking money meant to feed and support his citizens just as Hussein was.

dy156

03-02-2004 06:29 AM

There was a post that mentioned a "now discredited CIA" report that Aristide was pshychotic. Not that one should trust every CIA report, but I read part of the report way back when, and I never saw anything afterward discrediting it.

Also, as an aside, I find it ironic that while so many think Bush is a religious zealot, here the Bush administration allowed a leader that's a Catholic Priest to be overthrown.

Kadath

03-02-2004 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dy156
Also, as an aside, I find it ironic that while so many think Bush is a religious zealot, here the Bush administration allowed a leader that's a Catholic Priest to be overthrown.

While I don't think Bush is a religious zealot, he's not a Catholic, and so if he were a zealot, it wouldn't keep him from allowing the coup. Catholic != Christian.

Lebell

03-02-2004 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
While I don't think Bush is a religious zealot, he's not a Catholic, and so if he were a zealot, it wouldn't keep him from allowing the coup. Catholic != Christian.

I hesitate to say anything when people Bush Bash, but unless you have proof that Bush believes this, this is an EXTREMELY unfair charge.

Or are you saying that zealots don't believe this?

*confused*

Kadath

03-02-2004 10:37 AM

Ah, let me clarify. I was refuting the logic that just because a person is Christian, they would support a Catholic priest. That is all. No comment upon what Bush actually has done or will do was intended.

Lebell

03-02-2004 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
Ah, let me clarify. I was refuting the logic that just because a person is Christian, they would support a Catholic priest. That is all. No comment upon what Bush actually has done or will do was intended.

Oh, IC

Thank you for the clarifications :)

smooth

03-02-2004 01:11 PM

Here's a portion from an article written by someone claiming to have met with Aristide: Jean Bertrand Aristide: Humanist or Despot?

Quote:

How then to reconcile Titid the humanist with what the media calls a despot of Haiti?

I don't know, and frankly, I've been struggling with that question. When I spoke with Haitians working for a few pennies an hour sewing clothes for American companies, I was frustrated that Aristide insisted on following a democratic process to raise the minimum wage knowing that the process would be slower and result in a lower minimum than if he just unilaterally raised it himself.

Aristide said, "Change takes time, Lyn. Some people have spent years paying Haitians very little. When I wanted to raise the minimum wage in 1991, they had a coup and you know what happened." He reminded me that he had gone to parliament to raise the minimum wage in 1994, though it was still very low. "Of course people should be paid more, but in a democracy we have to share power and this is what was [voted on.]" he said.

When a major American daily paper published an article that portrayed Aristide as a despot, I was aghast. "Don't you care that they're saying this about you?" I asked him. As much as I disagreed with some of his politics, I was hurt when I saw him so maligned.

Aristide always had an answer: "What is important is not journalists, it's to make democracy real. How can we say we love our brother but we let him starve? How can we say we want democracy but we do nothing when people have no home? How can people have peace in their hearts when they have no peace in their stomach?"

There are, he added, "Larger forces at work here than you or me, forces that have a big stake in our small country."

Here are portions of an article I found interesting that give more historical context to the current situation:U.S.-Sponsored Regime Change in Haiti

Quote:

Cycles of Destabilization

This overthrow had been in the making since December 1990, when Haiti's first free election was held. The winning candidate, with two-thirds majority, was the populist priest Aristide, backed by a vigorous grassroots movement known as Lavalas. But seven months later, Aristide's government was overthrown in a military coup. No government on earth recognized the military junta, but as Noam Chomsky noted: "Washington maintained close intelligence and military ties with the new rulers while undermining the embargo called by the Organization of American States, even authorizing illegal shipments of oil to the regime and its wealthy supporters."

In July 1993, Aristide was made to sign the Governor's Island Accord, a US-backed "peace accord" with the illegal military junta that terrorized Haiti for three years. The Accord forbade Aristide from running for re-election once he was restored to power, and gave amnesty to the death-squad terrorists of the junta. The junta then refused to abide by the accord, prompting President Clinton to send in troops in September 1994.

Aristide finished his term, although conditions imposed on him as the cost of returning to power – such as an IMF-style "free market" reform of the economy – eroded his popularity. But Aristide continued to stand up to the IMF and international creditors, demanding a better deal that would not impose yet harsher austerity on Haiti, the poorest country in the western hemisphere.

Quote:

France was the first to call for Aristide's resignation as the rebels seized the northern half of the country in late February. The French hold grudges against Aristide for his demand last April that France pay back the $22 billion (adjusted for inflation and interest) that Haiti had to pay in 1863 for French recognition of the republic, which became independent in 1804 – the second in the hemisphere after the US in 1776, and the first independent black republic in the world. Ironically, the new uprising came weeks after Haiti had celebrated the bicentennial of its independence.

I hope people read through these articles and reexamine their beliefs about this subject instead of rejecting what might be new information that they didn't have when they formed their opinions.

doncalypso

03-02-2004 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hammer4all
No, I am not Haitian nor do I personally know any, but there are evidently quite a few who still have a more positive opinion of Mr. Aristide.

http://members.cox.net/gamingdirk/stuff/feb6card.jpg

I myself have similar feelings as you, only about President Bush, but I don't support his ouster by a group of militant thugs financed and supported by a foreign nation. I think there are better, more democratic means for regime change in a democratic society.

Aristide fooled a lot of people.... he made it seem as though he wanted to promote change and democracy, but all he was interested was the accumulation of power and causing resentment between the masses and the middle-class and bourgeoisie of Haitian society.

He had no real interest in looking out for the welfare of the Haitian people.

hammer4all

03-02-2004 10:35 PM

There was a good article in the Guardian today:

Quote:

Why They Had to Crush Aristide
Haiti's Elected Leader was Regarded as a Threat by France and the US
by Peter Hallward

Jean-Bertrand Aristide was re-elected president of Haiti in November 2000 with more than 90% of the vote. He was elected by people who approved his courageous dissolution, in 1995, of the armed forces that had long terrorized Haiti and had overthrown his first administration. He was elected by people who supported his tentative efforts, made with virtually no resources or revenue, to invest in education and health. He was elected by people who shared his determination, in the face of crippling US opposition, to improve the conditions of the most poorly paid workers in the western hemisphere.

Aristide was forced from office on Sunday by people who have little in common except their opposition to his progressive policies and their refusal of the democratic process. With the enthusiastic backing of Haiti's former colonial master, a leader elected with overwhelming popular support has been driven from office by a loose association of convicted human rights abusers, seditious former army officers and pro-American business leaders.

It's obvious that Aristide's expulsion offered Jacques Chirac a long-awaited chance to restore relations with an American administration he dared to oppose over the attack on Iraq. It's even more obvious that the characterization of Aristide as yet another crazed idealist corrupted by absolute power sits perfectly with the political vision championed by George Bush, and that the Haitian leader's downfall should open the door to a yet more ruthless exploitation of Latin American labor.

If you've been reading the mainstream press over the past few weeks, you'll know that this peculiar version of events has been carefully prepared by repeated accusations that Aristide rigged fraudulent elections in 2000; unleashed violent militias against his political opponents; and brought Haiti's economy to the point of collapse and its people to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe.

But look a little harder at those elections. An exhaustive and convincing report by the International Coalition of Independent Observers concluded that "fair and peaceful elections were held" in 2000, and by the standard of the presidential elections held in the US that same year they were positively exemplary.

Why then were they characterized as "flawed" by the Organization of American States (OAS)? It was because, after Aristide's Lavalas party had won 16 out of 17 senate seats, the OAS contested the methodology used to calculate the voting percentages. Curiously, neither the US nor the OAS judged this methodology problematic in the run-up to the elections.

However, in the wake of the Lavalas victories, it was suddenly important enough to justify driving the country towards economic collapse. Bill Clinton invoked the OAS accusation to justify the crippling economic embargo against Haiti that persists to this day, and which effectively blocks the payment of about $500m in international aid.

But what about the gangs of Aristide supporters running riot in Port-au-Prince? No doubt Aristide bears some responsibility for the dozen reported deaths over the last 48 hours. But given that his supporters have no army to protect them, and given that the police force serving the entire country is just a tenth of the force that patrols New York city, it's worth remembering that this figure is a small fraction of the number killed by the rebels in recent weeks.

One of the reasons why Aristide has been consistently vilified in the press is that the Reuters and AP wire services, on which most coverage depends, rely on local media, which are all owned by Aristide's opponents. Another, more important, reason for the vilification is that Aristide never learned to pander unreservedly to foreign commercial interests. He reluctantly accepted a series of severe IMF structural adjustment plans, to the dismay of the working poor, but he refused to acquiesce in the indiscriminate privatization of state resources, and stuck to his guns over wages, education and health.

What happened in Haiti is not that a leader who was once reasonable went mad with power; the truth is that a broadly consistent Aristide was never quite prepared to abandon all his principles.

Worst of all, he remained indelibly associated with what's left of a genuine popular movement for political and economic empowerment. For this reason alone, it was essential that he not only be forced from office but utterly discredited in the eyes of his people and the world. As Noam Chomsky has said, the "threat of a good example" solicits measures of retaliation that bear no relation to the strategic or economic importance of the country in question. This is why the leaders of the world have joined together to crush a democracy in the name of democracy.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0302-08.htm

Scipio

03-02-2004 11:52 PM

The waters on this issue are so muddy right now. Aristide bad! No, Aristide good!

Aristide: "They abducted me, I tell you! At gunpoint!"

Powell, Rumsfeld, et. al: "What, are you gonna listen to this guy? We'd never do anything like that! You trust us, right?"

We have evidence, and now I don't know what to think!

smooth

03-03-2004 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
The waters on this issue are so muddy right now. Aristide bad! No, Aristide good!

Aristide: "They abducted me, I tell you! At gunpoint!"

Powell, Rumsfeld, et. al: "What, are you gonna listen to this guy? We'd never do anything like that! You trust us, right?"

We have evidence, and now I don't know what to think!

I guess this is where character comes into play.

We have Aristide's bio, we have the rebel leaders' bios, and we know who's interest the CIA is protecting when it meddles in the affairs of other nations, along with we know who's interest our administration is protecting when it meddles (or refuses to meddle, as the case may be) in foreign affairs--their own!

Anyway, while it's possible that Aristide changed from a socialist priest who was concerned with the welfare of the downtrodden and attempted to buck the demands of the IMF and World Bank into a money hungry, power grabbing elitist; and it's possible that villians who massacred people and kept the population under military rule for decades changed into a group that cares for the masses--I don't see these as likely attitude and perspective shifts.

I don't need to go too deep into the motives of the CIA or our adminstration, but I don't see them as being very concerned with the impoverished segments of Haiti.

That's the lense I'm using while sifting through this information.

hammer4all

03-03-2004 01:36 AM

Also, all you have to do is look at our past history. The United States, the CIA in particular, has a rich history in overthrowing democratic countries and installing pro-American, often murderous, dictators. Now, we don't like to talk about this -- CIA coups are rarely mentioned in our high school text books or in the U.S. corporate news media. This is perfectly understandable because it is not in government or corporate interests for people to know about it. But all of this history is widely known as fact and accepted in the alternative media and sometimes even foreign corporate media. People just have to know to look.

"The truth is so often the reverse of what has been told us by our culture that we cannot turn our heads far enough around to see it." -- Howard Zinn

hammer4all

03-06-2004 01:53 AM

Democracy Now! did a wonderful segment today on both the CIA coup in Iran and the attempted coup of Chavez in 2002.

Quote:

New York Times reporter Steven Kinzer discusses how the U.S. overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran. Kinzer says “I think it was the success of the Iran coup and the Guatamalan one the folllowed that sent the US off on this direction of covert action and regime change.”

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid...4/03/05/1542249

Quote:

In April 2002, a team of Irish filmmakers were in Caracas, Venezuela working on a documentary about president Hugo Chavez. They got more than they expected: they captured on film an attempted coup of the Venezuelan government and highlighted the role of the media in the coup. We play an excerpt from "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid...4/03/05/1543207

I recommend everyone watch it. You won't get this history off mainstream television.

hammer4all

03-06-2004 02:52 AM

Quote:

Aristide Details Last Moments In Haiti, Calls For Stop To Bloodshed In First Address To Haitian People From Exile
Commentary, Republic of Haiti President Jean-Bertrand Aristide
Flashpoints Exclusive, Mar 05, 2004
Translated by Pierre and Marie Labossiere

NOTE: President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, who left a tumultuous Haiti under shadowy circumstances Feb. 29, has delivered an impassioned address “To the Haitian People and the World” by cell phone to a Haitian journalist in the United States working with a radio station in Berkeley, CA. Aristide spoke from the Central African Republic where he has been under a virtual house arrest in the days since he was delivered from Port-au-Prince on a U.S. plane. The address was recorded by a Haitian radio producer known to Aristide for some 20 years , exclusively on Pacifica Radio’s Flashpoints News Magazine based at KPFA . Six Haitians and Americans who know Aristide listened Friday to excerpts from the message, delivered in Creole, and confirmed the voice is that of the president.
Dennis Bernstein supplied this translation also to Pacific News Service.

“In overthrowing me, they have uprooted the trunk of liberty. It will grow back because its roots are many and deep.” In the shadow of Toussaint L'Ouverture, the genius of the race. I declare in overthrowing me they have uprooted the trunk of the tree of peace, but it will grow back because the roots are L'Ouverturian.

Dear compatriots, it is with these first words that I am saluting our brothers and sisters from Africa, while I am standing on the soil of the Republic of Central Africa. Allow me to salute you by repeating that same declaration that is, “In overthrowing me, they have uprooted the trunk of the tree of peace, but it will grow back because the roots are L'Ouverturian.” In fact, during the night of the 28th of February 2004, there was a coup d’etat. One could equally say that it was a geo-political kidnapping. I can clearly say that it was terrorism disguised as diplomacy. To conclude, this coup d’etat and this kidnapping are like two quarters and 50 cents side by side.

I have always denounced the coming of this coup d’etat, but until the 27th of February, the day before, I didn't see that the crime was going to be accompanied by kidnapping as well. The 28th of February, at night, suddenly, American military personnel who were already all over Port-au-Prince descended on my house in Tabarre to tell me first that all the American security agents who have contracts with the [Haitian] government only have two options. Either they leave immediately to go to the United States, or they fight to die. Secondly, the remaining 25 of the American security agents [hired by the Haitian government] who were to come in on the 29th of February as reinforcements were under interdiction to come to Haiti. Thirdly, the foreigners and Haitian terrorists alike, who are loaded with heavy weapons, were already in position to open fire on Port-au-Prince. And right then, the Americans precisely stated that they will kill thousands of people and it will be a bloodbath; the attack is ready to start, and when the first bullet is fired nothing will stop them and nothing will make them wait until they take over, therefore the mission is to take me dead or alive.

At that time I told the Americans that my first preoccupation is to save the lives of those thousands of people tonight. As far as my own life is concerned, whether I am alive or whether I am dead, that is not what’s important. My first priority is to save the lives of these thousands of people tonight. As much as I was trying to use diplomacy, the more the pressure was being intensified for the Americans to start the attack. In spite of that, I took the risk of slowing down the death machine to verify the degree of danger, in relation to the degree of bluff, or the degree of intimidation.

It was more serious than a bluff. The National Palace was surrounded by white men armed to their teeth. The Tabarre area -- the residence -- was surrounded by foreigners armed to their teeth. The airport of Port-au-Prince was already under the control of these men. After a last evaluation I made during a meeting with the person in charge of Haitian security in Port-au-Prince, and the person in charge of American security, the truth was clear. There is going to be a bloodbath because we were already under an illegal foreign occupation ready to drop bodies on the ground, to spill blood, and then kidnap me dead or alive.

That meeting took place at 3 a.m. Faced with this tragedy, I decided to ask, "What guarantee do I have that there will not be a bloodbath if I decided to leave?"

In reality, all this diplomatic gymnastics did not mean anything because these military men responsible for the kidnapping operation had already taken the disposition for the success of their mission. What was said was done. This diplomacy, plus the forced signing of the letter of resignation, was not able to cover the face of the kidnapping.

From my house to the airport, everywhere there were American military men armed with heavy weapons of death. The military plane that came to get me landed while the convoy of vehicles that came to get me was near the tarmac at the airport. There were 55 seats on the plane, however, I need to point out that among those who were on the plane, there was a baby who was one and a half years old. He was the baby of one of my American security agents who has a Haitian wife. With that baby, the first stop we made was Antigua. It was not possible for the American father of that baby to get out of that plane, let alone the other people who were on the plane. When we were airborne, nobody knew where we were going. When we landed again, nobody knew where we were. We spent four hours without knowing where we were. When we got back in the air again, nobody knew where we were going. The poor baby who was on that plane; at any time anything bad could have happened. Even his father, who is an American citizen, had no authority to stop this from happening

It was not until 20 minutes before we landed in the Republic of Central Africa that I was given the official word that this is where we would be landing. We landed there. That’s a French Air Force base but fortunately there were 5 ministers from the government that came to welcome us, and they welcomed us on behalf of the President who was not in the Capital, Bangui, because that country has 623,000 sq. kilometers, so it’s big; and the President is touring inside the country. Even though the country doesn’t have that many people in it, only 3.2 million people, we were offered a beautiful welcome by the government.

We could clearly see the face of this kidnapping. We know there are people back home who are suffering, who are being killed, who are in hiding. We also know that back home there are people who understand the game, who see the game, but will not give up because if they give up, instead of finding peace, we will find death.

Therefore, I ask that everyone who loves life to come together to protect the lives of others. Everyone who doesn’t want to see bloodshed to come together so that it is life that flourishes instead of blood that has been spilled, or bodies falling. I know it’s possible that all Haitians who live in the tenth department [Haitians living abroad] understand what tragedy lies hidden under the cover of this coup d’etat, under the cover of this kidnapping. I know and they know if we stand in solidarity we will stop the spread of death and we will help life flourish. The same thing that happened to a President who was democratically elected can happen at any time, in any other country too. So therefore, that’s why solidarity is indispensable to protect a democracy that works together with life.

The constitution is the source of [Haiti’s] life. It’s the guarantee of the life. Let’s stand together under the constitution in solidarity so that it is life that unfolds, and that it is peace that flourishes and not death as we are seeing it. Courage, courage, courage! From where I am with the First Lady, we have not forgotten what Toussaint L'Ouverture has said, and that’s why we saluted all of Africa with the words of Toussaint L’Ouverture, and we are saluting all Haitians everywhere with the conviction that the roots of the tree of peace, with the spirit of Toussaint L'Ouverture inside, are alive. They can cut the tree as they have done with the machete of the coup d’etat, but they cannot cut the roots of peace. It will sprout again because it has the spirit of Toussaint L'Ouverture inside.

Jean-Bertrand Aristide
President of Republic of Haiti
As translated by Pierre and Marie LaBossiere

http://www.flashpoints.net/

hammer4all

03-06-2004 02:55 AM

Quote:

Aristide Supporters Denounce Haiti 'Occupation'

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti (Reuters) - Thousands of furious supporters of exiled President Jean-Bertrand Aristide poured out of Haiti's slums and into the streets on Friday, marching on the U.S. Embassy to denounce the "occupation" of their homeland and demand Aristide's return.

The formation of a new government moved ahead with the appointment of a council of seven "wise men" charged with picking a prime minister, while the estimate of the death toll after a month-long revolt soared to well over 200.

A crowd estimated at more than 10,000 materialized suddenly in Port-au-Prince, seething at Aristide's flight to Africa five days ago, hurling slurs at U.S. Marines and calling President Bush (news - web sites) a "terrorist."

Hundreds held up their hands, with fingers extended, shouting "Aristide five years," the rallying cry of those who wanted him to finish his term. Heavily armed U.S. troops watched from the embassy rooftop as the crowd marched past.

"Bush terrorist! Bush terrorist!," they chanted, waving Haitian flags or T-shirts bearing photos of Aristide.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...m/haiti_dc_170

Ustwo

03-06-2004 08:36 AM

Quote:

Aristide wasn't forced out
March 06,2004
ERIC STEINKOPFF
DAILY NEWS STAFF

If Jim Refinger knows one thing it's this: Ousted Haitian president Jean Bertrand Aristide is safe.

There was no kidnapping, as some sources reported. There was no injury. And for Refinger there was no mystery.

Refinger was there. The former Jacksonville police sniper and retired Marine was part of a private security team hired to protect Aristide's inner circle.

"We left with him (but) I won't talk about where we went," Refinger said Friday from his home in Jacksonville where he just returned. "We escorted him safely out.

"Everything was done with the full knowledge and cooperation of the president. There was no forcing the president to go anywhere. We protected our principal without a shot fired and he is safe."

Refinger works for Steele Foundation, a security firm based in San Francisco. The company has protection details all over the world and does industrial security and risk analysis, Refinger said.

Aristide had a presidential protection unit, and a team from Steele mirrored the unit in an inner circle. Refinger's job was running the outer circle that kept the inner circle safe.

"We were protecting the protectors, and we worked closely with the Haitian counter-ambush team," he said.

A good fit

http://www.jdnews.com/SiteProcessor....6&Section=News

How can anyone take this credibly, this guy is a former marine, and obviously a tool of the corporate media, and may be a member of the skull and bones society, plus I heard rumors he was a doorman for the illuminati.

I mean come on, how can we take the word of an American who's job it was to protect Arisitide, when Aristide himself says otherwise. After all isn't OBVIOUS that America wanted Haiti for its rich supply of umm voodoo zombies. How can we not take the word of a corrupt politician? I'm sure he is not bitter, after all the US saved him once already, I'm sure he didn't expect us to pull his chestnuts out of the fire a second time.

In short, any thinking person can know for a fact that the US just wanted to overthrow another peaceful and democratically elected leader, just like they did in Iraq.

hammer4all

03-06-2004 03:16 PM