Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - Michael Moore

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- - Michael Moore - We Finally Got Our Frankenstein (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-politics/39109-michael-moore-we-finally-got-our-frankenstein.html)

Regarding the last page and a half of this thread:

http://www.seretogis.org/files/linka...i_am_today.jpg

Nice trolling. I really love the points you made...

Yeah, seretogis is really reliable for the "ironic troll post" contributions. He's clever in the british sense. Apparently he never tires of having that fact pointed out for him.

Quote:

Originally posted by Endymon32
You are deluded if you think that the world is not a safer place. Saddam, a documented supporter of terrorism and invader, as well as mass murderer is gone. The man who controled the third largest oil reserves and all the power that comes with it is not in power.
Libya is playing ball, but its too early to see if they are for real. Iran is talking and looks to be willing to allow unannounced inspections. That leaves Syria and Pakistan to deal with.
Ask anyone, Bush said this was a long deal, and so far its paying off.
The world is safer. When fighting terrorsits, you take out the suppling nations. What is left is underfunded, undersupplied, un organised cells. This is Bush's plan and its an amazing success so far.
You are right, America is in it for America. Thats undenialble. And its in America's best interests to have the Middle East as stable, peace loving and democratic as possible. To sit there and think that taking out Saddam did nothing for America, and world peace is ignorant.
Untill Uzbek invades a neighbor, or sponcers terrorism, the United States will do nothing, as there is no threat to us, or to the region.
As long as Uzbek stays were it is geographically, it will be in the greater interest to deal with them as to make OUR job easier.
Like it or not, any president with a commitment to make the world safer will have to treat Uzbek this way, thats the sorry state of politics.
Same thing with Turkey, a nation that didnt treat the Kurds very well. They have something we need, we deal with them. Do I agree that it stinks? Hell yes. But to do nothing since we cant not do it all stinks even more.

Lets look at it this way. Should we not clean up our back yard if we can not clean the whole neighborhood? Can I not walk through my neighboor's dirty yard if it makes my cleaning job easier?
Does paying my neighboor for the use of his yard, to make my job easier, even though his yard is still dirty make my cleaning job less valid?
My yard is still clean at the end of the day, and there is one less yard that needs cleaning. Then we can move on to the next yard.

So you are saying that we should not clean any yard or clean them all at once. The first is unacceptable, the second is impossible. The realistic answer, do what we can now.

Sorry you think creating a hopefilled, stable, safe democratic nation is such a shitty thing.

Let me ask you since you care, do you toss out food when someone in the world is starving? Does that make you a hypocrite? Of course not.

America is dealing with the rouge nations, a job other well off nations are ignoring. We are dealing with Libya, Iran, Iraq, Afganishtan, and N Korea. And we are sucseeding. You can take no joy or happiness in this cause one nation is not being forced to comply. Thats pretty crumby. I tend to be glad that a difference is being made, bit by bit, by a President that has the balls to stand up and do something while others scorn and laugh while doing nothing about anything. Is he solving all the worlds problems? Nope, not even close. Not even Superman could do that. Is he making the world safer? Ask the Iraqis, ask the majority of Americans, ask anyone but Howard Dean and his shrinking minority of supporters. Hell even the other democratic canidates think Dean was wrong about this one.

I agree with you on most of these points. I know that the world is a fucked up, unfair place, and i doubt it will ever be different from that. I think we are arguing about two different things. You argue that the us does what it thinks it has to do to assure its place and power in the world, and generally to pretect its citizens.
America does what its leaders think it has to do.
My main point is that in packaging this war, and many wars, for public consumption a picture is painted depicting the u.s. as some sort of big brother to the world whose only concern is the safety and well being of all the world's people. That is pure deception.
The hour grows late for this thread, though so i will leave it at that.

So what was our ulterior motive in going to Kosovo? What about Somolia? What about bombing Libya? Kuwait? I guess you are right, America never defends those that are invaded or dying from genocide and or starvation. We had so much to gain from Kosovo, Libya, and Somolia... Hell we defended Muslims more times than any three muslim countries in the past ten years alone.

Moore is an idiot and he chooses to speak out against our govt at the most innappropriate time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but there is a correct time and place to say it.

Lions20 by your logic we shouldn't have our freedom of speech whenver the government feels its the wrong time?

who decides when its the wrong time?

i can see when people step over hte line and threaten others using speech, but moore is hardly doing that, and idiot or not, who are you to take away someone's opinion?

oh wait the great values of american independence and individuality are to be taken away when they dont agree with you?

I like how Moore changes his tune about Osama bin Laden every few weeks. The man will flip flop and take whatever Anti Bush Stance he can. And his followers either dont notice or dont care, as long as he continues to spout Anti Bush rhetoric.

Here's an update to this post from October 19. It seems that Mikey changes his tune about Osama bin Laden quite often. On September 12, 2001, Osama bin Laden was a monster created by the CIA.

Quote:

WE created the monster known as Osama bin Laden!

Where did he go to terrorist school? At the CIA!

Don’t take my word for it — I saw a piece on MSNBC last year that laid it all out. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the CIA trained him and his buddies in how to commits acts of terrorism against the Soviet forces. It worked! The Soviets turned and ran. Bin Laden was grateful for what we taught him and thought it might be fun to use those same techniques against us.

The, conveniently, on October 3, 2003, he was a harmless man on in a cave on dialysis.

Quote:

Dear "Mr. President," who attacked the United States on September 11th—a guy on dialysis from a cave in Afghanistan, or our friends, the Saudi Arabians?

And let us not forget that in Dude, Where's My Country? Moore speculates that the 9/11 attackers were part of the Saudi air force.

.

Quote:

I would like to throw out a possibility here: what if September 11 was not a "terrorist" attack but, rather, a military attack against the United States? George, apparently you were a pilot once - how hard is it to hit a five-storey building at more than 500 miles an hour? The Pentagon is only five stories high. At 500 miles an hour, had the pilots been off by just a hair, they'd have been in the river. You do not get this skilled at learning how to fly jumbo jets by being taught on a video game machine at some dipshit flight training school in Arizona.

You learn to do this in the air force. Someone's air force.

The Saudi air force?

What if these weren't wacko terrorists, but military pilots who signed on to a suicide mission? What if they were doing this at the behest of either the Saudi government or certain disgruntled members of the Saudi royal family? The House of Saud, according to Robert Baer's book Sleeping With the Devil, is full of them. So, did certain factions within the Saudi royal family execute the attack on September 11? Were these pilots trained by the Saudis? Why are you so busy protecting the Saudis when you should be protecting us?

So, we've gone from OBL being a "monster" to a guy on dialysis in a cave to the 9/11 attacks being a plot by the Saudi air force. Then, on December 14, 2003, OBL was magically back to being behind 9/11 again.

Quote:

Meanwhile, anybody know where the guy is who killed 3,000 people on 9/11? Our other Frankenstein?? Maybe he's in a mouse hole.

So, it seems that Mike just can't make up his mind whether he thinks OBL was behind 9/11, whether it was the Saudi air force, whether or not OBL is a guy in a cave on dialysis, or whether he is a "monster" who killed 3,000 people.

Why, it's almost as if Mike really doesn't have much of a logical, consistent position on this issue, and keeps changing his tune depending on what he perceives is the best way to smear President Bush. Perish the thought.