Really?

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=30415

do you really mean this??


This exact thing could be said about Islam, substituting "terrorism" for crusades. you truly should read up on Islam. instead of saying things in ignorance such as

What crusades have gone on is the last 700-800 years? Exactly. Call me ignorant, have you ever heard of Wahabism? Obviously you haven't because you tried to call me on something that you yourself had no idea about. Again terrorism isn't part of Islam??? Why don't you go to Saudi Arabia where 26 million people are taught differently 5 times a day.

You're not here to discuss anything, you've already made up your mind.

You present a doublestandard. Many wars have been fought in the name of Christianity. However, you say that they don't technically meet the Christian requirement for war and therefore aren't Christian wars. How come you equate terrorism with Islam? If anything, Islam has a history of being much more tolerant than Christianity. How come you don't also excuse Islam itself when someone simply uses it to create justification for whatever act they're committing? Do you realize how similar Islam and Christianity really are?

Terrorism is such a pointless word, it holds no value here. Also, do you really know what Jihad is? I'm not talking about CNN's "holy war" definition, but what Jihad really is to true followers of Islam.

SLM3

Fellas you're having an extremely interesting discussion; this topic and thread is one of the better ones Ive read through in a while dont let your anger make the mods close it.

If you havent read the Koran its worth the read; Im just about through with it (hopefully the translation is a good one). Thanks for the link. I will respectfully say that there are two angles to go about this topic: 1) from the books themselves or 2) from historical events (the possible multiple versions there can be).

ex- Salem witch trials, Spanish Inquisition, etc vs a possible interpretation of the Bible promoting peace

ex- terrorist attacks, killing of "infidels" vs a possible interpretation of the Koran promoting peace

I think writings from individuals like Lau Tzu are totally different, and I think even though not stated the discussion is geared towards Christianity, Judism, and Islam. I will comment fully once Ive completed reading the Koran; provided this thread is still open. ---Remember a disagreement can occur without having to allow things to go personal. Of course this is only a suggestion and IMO.

Blaming the Crusades on a few 'corrupt popes' is an overly simplistic view of the driving forces behind them. The fact is, there have been many many wars fought in the name of Christianity over the last two thousand years, since the Emperor Constantine used the cross as his symbol. Lets see, we have the Christian persecutions of pagans in the later Roman empire, the conquests of the pagan Prussians by the Teutonic Knights, the pogroms against Jews during the Black Death, the reconquista and forcable expulsion of Jews and Muslims from Spain, the witchhunts throughout Europe and early America, the conquistadors in Mexico and Peru, I could go on. And don't think its just an ancient, outdated phenomenon either. Think about the abortion doctors and homosexuals murdered by radical Christians. And you don't think all the happy families who picnicked at lynchings in the early 20th century didn't consider themselves the best of the god-fearing folk, do you?

Given the right circumstances, any religion and any ideology can be twisted and warped into something monstrous.

Firstly, terrorism isn't part of Islam. It doesn't matter how many terror schools brainwash their followers into thinking it is, it still isn't. And the people who think it is, are always going to be far, far outnumbered by Muslims who are essentially good people caught in a very bad place. By blaming the actions of extremists on the religion as a whole, you're doing what the terrorists want, upping the ante and turning it into what it isn't now and shouldn't ever be: a religious war.

Interesting point. I didnt consider the crimes done by extreme pro-life people. Indeed some proably do it because of their religious values. --Just a quick note side topic--I wonder how many atheist / agnostic people are pro life.

The same way the muslims I've met so far would have nothing to do with Al-Quaida, I'm pretty sure that most Christians on this board would have nothing to with the Ku Klux Klan.

The way Islam is used as a political tool today is very similar to the way Christanity has been used. The major difference is that Christianity was more efficient as a tool back when the nation-states were more loosely defined, and therefore was used more during infighting and powerstruggles within countries. That this stopped had more to do with people turning their back on Christianity due to the greed the churches in Europe expressed, therefore leading to the church losing influence.

Christianity has been used as a political tool in times of conflict in recent times as well; South America is one prime example. Another more recent example is how the "Axis of Evil" got its name; GW Bush wanted religious overtones, believing it would catch the eye of the public more.

The whole debate on "good religion, bad religion" is meaningless. All religions have been used for personal gains in the past. The way to get rid of the problem is to cause people to be content.

As for Mojo's Saudi Arabia example; I say once more: The KKK.

Lucky for me I'm Catholic so KKK and Nazi's alike don't care for me either.

I was pointing out your double standard.
Look at your statement, and my reply again, please.

You said, Crusades are not allowable in Christianity. I am saying that "terrorism" is not allowed in Islam. in the same way that you put the Crusades outside of the realm of christianity, terrorism is outside the realm of Islam.

and then you said

Which argues for a certain viewpoint of Muslim ideology without actually describing any substantial portions of it. And merely to demonstrate why I believe that you do not understand the Qur'an in its traditional form, Look towards your last two sentences, which imply that an endorsement of terrorism is found in the Qur'an explicity, not even in the realm of Islam (You say this because you say it is taught five times a day, and the only thing that is read in prayers, which occur five times a day, is the Qur'an) And i can tell you, having read the Qur'an multiple times, in its entirety, that there is no concept or ideology in the Qur'an that endorses the modern day term "terrorism". If you seek to prove my ignorance, please, please do so with substantive information. Thank You and God Bless

Good thread.

Strong opinions on both sides yet things are civil and to the point.

Carry on :)