EU poll sees Israel as peace threat

[Arc101]

A European commission opinion poll that claims 60% of Europeans see Israel as the greatest threat to world peace has drawn outraged denunciations of anti-semitism.
The poll surveyed 7,500 people in 15 EU countries who said Israel was a bigger threat to world peace than Iran, North Korea and the US.

The public in the Netherlands, Austria and Luxembourg were the most fearful. France, which Israel views with the greatest suspicion of any EU state, did not rank the Jewish state as the greatest danger.

Israel's diaspora affairs minister, the former Soviet dissident Natan Sharansky, said the poll was further evidence of why Europe is not to be trusted to play a role in the peace process.

"The fact that the majority of Europeans sees Israel as the main danger ... is additional proof that behind the 'political' criticism of Israel stands pure anti-semitism.

"The EU, which shows sensitivity on human rights issues, would do well to stop the rampant brainwashing against and demonising of Israel before Europe deteriorates again to dark sections of its past."

But a former head of Israel's foreign ministry, Alon Liel, said Israelis would be wise to consider why Europeans might think that way. "Do they hate us or are they truly frightened? Our natural predilection is to pull out of the drawer our usual weapon of self-defence - the weapon of anti-semitism - but this is probably the wrong place to do so."

Just wondering what people think about this, I think Israel is one of the most dangerous countries, but it seems every time someone criticizes Israel they are accused of anti-semitism.

[pocon1]

sorry dude, this one has already been done. I don't know how to link the thread, just look farther down the page.

[Arc101]

Sorry I did look but must have missed it. Thanks for letting me know.

[Sun Tzu]

You ever had deja vu?




You ever had deja vu?

[Conclamo Ludus]

Originally posted by pocon1
sorry dude, this one has already been done. I don't know how to link the thread, just look farther down the page.

That post got locked due to uncivilized and ridiculous banter. Maybe if anybody still has a point to make they can bring it to this thread.

[MeshMan2000]

I'm going to reply anyway

I also think Israel is a dangerous country. I don't really see how many people in Israel can allow the occupation to happen. It needs to stop ASAP. I also don't see how the US can have such double standards between Iraq and Israel. Israel has completely ignored about 3 times as many UN resolutions as Iraq did; yet they say nothing.

weird, that.

[sexymama]

Originally posted by MeshMan2000
I'm going to reply anyway

I also think Israel is a dangerous country. I don't really see how many people in Israel can allow the occupation to happen. It needs to stop ASAP. I also don't see how the US can have such double standards between Iraq and Israel. Israel has completely ignored about 3 times as many UN resolutions as Iraq did; yet they say nothing.

weird, that.

Perhaps it's because Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, the Palestinians, etc have vowed to wipe Israel off the face of the map while Israel has never vowed to wipe out Iraq, Iran, etc.

edited to say,

Oops, I see I've posted as Sexymama (this is Lebell)

[redravin40]

*redravin spanks Lebell.*
"Bad boy. Must be sneaking into the LL dressed as Sexymama. Though you do look kind of cute in drag."

To the rest of you, if this thread winds up like the other one it will get locked down so fast your heads will spin.

[ObieX]

I think Israel uses the excuse of anti-semitism way too often. Disagreeing with the leaders of the country of Israel does not mean that you want to wipe all Jewish people from the face of the planet.

I find the country of Israel to be way too trigger happy. They have the bomb and they are NOT afraid to use it. If that doesn't scare people then i don't know what would. Don't take this to mean that i dont recognize their ability for self-restraint.. they have shown that they can hold back if they really want to.. but just because another country wants to wage war on you does not mean you have the right to threaten the lives of every single person on this planet by playing around with nukes.

I also feel that they are not trying at all to end the palistinian conflict. If i were a palistinian my slogan would be "Tell Sharon, 'Let my people go.'"

[Moskie]

I think the best part is how the EU reacted to the poll...

Fastest. Sweeping under rug. EVER.

[Mojo_PeiPei]

Originally posted by ObieX
I think Israel uses the excuse of anti-semitism way too often. Disagreeing with the leaders of the country of Israel does not mean that you want to wipe all Jewish people from the face of the planet.

You'd think after a centuries of persecution, after a century where more then 4+ million jews were murdered, after half a century of Arab's saying the only means for peace is the death of all jews, that they would be a little hardline when it comes to dealing with security.

I find the country of Israel to be way too trigger happy. They have the bomb and they are NOT afraid to use it. If that doesn't scare people then i don't know what would. Don't take this to mean that i dont recognize their ability for self-restraint.. they have shown that they can hold back if they really want to.. but just because another country wants to wage war on you does not mean you have the right to threaten the lives of every single person on this planet by playing around with nukes.

How is the country "way" to trigger happy? Yes those evil war-mongering jews are in no position to defend themselves, especially after 5 armed conflicts and 2 infitida's in half a century. Way. Out. of. Line.

Why not look at other countries that also have nukes, that actually threaten to use them such as North Korea. Thats why EU is a joke, if they see Israel as more of a threat then a country that openly admits to wanting to "bath Americans/ (insert any random civilian population) in a holocaust of fire" or a country that would knowingly and willing sell said nuclear weapons to terrorist organizations.

I also feel that they are not trying at all to end the palistinian conflict. If i were a palistinian my slogan would be "Tell Sharon, 'Let my people go.'"

Again that is not up to snuff. It is ALL Israel's fault that they don't reward terrorism. Damn those crazy money grubbing, Palestinian baby killing heeb-jews, lets just get rid of them so all the worlds problems will go away.

[Food Eater Lad]

I think people should also realise that one can have problems with a nation like Israel, and still not be Anti semetic.

[ObieX]

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
You'd think after a centuries of persecution, after a century where more then 4+ million jews were murdered, after half a century of Arab's saying the only means for peace is the death of all jews, that they would be a little hardline when it comes to dealing with security.

You would think after all these centuries of recieving it that they would know when they are doing it to others. I guess not though?

How is the country "way" to trigger happy? Yes those evil war-mongering jews are in no position to defend themselves, especially after 5 armed conflicts and 2 infitida's in half a century. Way. Out. of. Line.

Dont take my post to mean that I think everything is Israel's fault. But you just can't turn a blind eye to what they have done AS A COUNTRY. I am NOT saying "those damn jews are evil." But you're not going to end a war by saying you're going to stop killing people then turning around 5 minutes later, kill 5 of the other side's leaders and say "oh... we didnt mean these guys.. they're ok to kill, dont mind us as we go along on our merry killing spree firing rockets from helecopters into crowded areas filled with women and children." THEY ARE AT FAULT AS WELL. If you think its all one sided you are wrong.

Why not look at other countries that also have nukes, that actually threaten to use them such as North Korea. Thats why EU is a joke, if they see Israel as more of a threat then a country that openly admits to wanting to "bath Americans/ (insert any random civilian population) in a holocaust of fire" or a country that would knowingly and willing sell said nuclear weapons to terrorist organizations.

Did i ever say that N Korea was "super OK!"? I dont think so. I think they are acting infantile and are throwing a tempertantrum until they get their bottle. They know that if they used a nuke they would then have their ass handed to them.

But yes, i put a country that is very willing to use their nukes in the same category as terrorists. Why? Because it's just as dangerous. If Israel were to be obliterated tomorrow, they would throw nukes in every direction trying to prevent it with no thought into the fact that the world would go on without them. Afterall the end of israel is the end of the world right? May as well take everyone else with us.

Again that is not up to snuff. It is ALL Israel's fault that they don't reward terrorism. Damn those crazy money grubbing, Palestinian baby killing heeb-jews, lets just get rid of them so all the worlds problems will go away.

Again, never said it was all their fault. But they arent exempt from fault and responsibility. And again, you would think that after all this time they would know when they were doing to others exactly what has been done to them for centuries. But i guess it doesn't count if they do it right? It's their turn to dish out the death right?

[Food Eater Lad]

If Israel was serious about peace, it would give back all the land it stole since 2000, you know over 118 illegal settlements. Israel is no better than the terrorists. They use every bombing as an reason to steal more land, bulldoze homes, and set up a new settlement for the "right" people.
As far as I am concered, the 6 billion a year the united States gives to Israel gives me nothing but problems. It could be better spent elsewhere.

[eple]

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
If Israel was serious about peace, it would give back all the land it stole since 2000, you know over 118 illegal settlements. Israel is no better than the terrorists. They use every bombing as an reason to steal more land, bulldoze homes, and set up a new settlement for the "right" people.
As far as I am concered, the 6 billion a year the united States gives to Israel gives me nothing but problems. It could be better spent elsewhere.

Wow FEL, I never thought I'd agree with you on any issue regarding politics...

Just saw a documentary on palestinan kids in Bethlehem. These guys are living in seriously fucked-uip conditions. Their education were hampered by military attacks. A tank fired at their school during their exams, so now they had to reattend 8.grade. All of them knew dead "martyrs" too, kids with rocks killed by kids with m16's. In a recent poll on emotional intelligence, 19% of Palestinian kids described a girl expressing the mood "daydreaming" as "thinking about suicude bombing". The conflict are breeding a generation of hateful killers on both sides.

[Peetster]

Palastinian leadership in general, and Arafat specifically, really have no intention of improving conditions for the Palestinian people. Several Isreali initiatives to bring running water into Palestine controlled areas were not permitted to proceed. If conditions improve in Palestine, they wouldn't have a rich supply of terrorist bombers ready to trade their squalid lives for the promise of a rich reward in the afterlife. Arafat is worse than a terrorist; he molds his people into killing machines.

[Mojo_PeiPei]

Also he profits from the violence to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Food Eater Lad]

True, Arafat is a slimeball, but that doesnt mean Sharon is the good guy.

[Phaenx]

I like Israel, the Arabs gave them a hard time, ganged up on them and tried to invade, so with the help of their American buddies they kicked the hell out of them.

I don't really see how they're very aggressive, most actions (bombing, occupation, etc) have usually been reactions to terrorism or truly aggressive actions by other countries. I think they should have (and if they were as aggressive as myself, they would have) just annexed Palestine after the 6 day war and kicked the "natives" out.

Also, they don't talk about killing the infidels. Man, that's annoying.

[Food Eater Lad]

They dont talk about killing Palastinians? Man I guess you dont talk to Israelis. Come on down to Williamsburg someday.

[Phaenx]

Do they count as infidels? I don't think most Israelis are Muslim, I was using infidel in the context of that particular religion.

[numist]

why is everyone afraid of this? Israel IS a threat to peace. There were no wars like this in the middle-east before Israel, and now it had been constant war since the creation of Israel.

There will be no peace on this issue, no matter how hard we try. Let them sort it out without help, and I think the solution is that Palestine will be invaded and incorporated into Israel, and the rest of the Arab world will fall into an uneasy peace. But at least it will be peace.

Great, now I've broken what I said about never going into Tilted Politics, I'm going to beat a quick exit.

[lordjeebus]

I normally don't discuss Israel-Palestine, but this thread is particularly civil and I'll add my two cents.

I think that the problem in that region is due to the extremism on both sides, and the anger generated by the other side's extremism perpetuates extremism on the other side. I see no natural end to this spiral.

Ideally, I would like to see the comprimise-minded people of both sides reject extremism. Although I have always supported the two-state solution, I wonder if a single nation, with a limited government would be better. True, Israel would lose their "Jewish State," so perhaps the single nation could be divided into two states, each with a lot of influence. It would be like the United States back when the States had more power then the Federal Govt.

Realistically, I don't think the moderates are going to be able to effectively join hands and eliminate extremism. I think that, practically speaking, the UN should go in and arrest the extremists on both sides. They could be tried for crimes against humanity or whatever.

[ObieX]

Actually that would be a good solution. One of the main problems with the palistinian territories is that it isnt contiguous. Part is on one side of Israel and part is on the other side of it (iirc). If these areas and Israel were segmented into different states (even though they would be the size of a county here in the US) and each given their own choices on issues i think many problems would be dealt with. Israel may already have this set up, I have no idea, but it isn't that bad of a plan.

The United States of Israel?

[eple]

I agree. Israel have to accept different religions and cultures just like every other nation. There can't be a purely jewish nation, just as there can't be a purely christian nation, or a pure people with red hair nation.

[Phaenx]

Somebody should tell that to Iran.

[eple]

Originally posted by Phaenx
Somebody should tell that to Iran.

Yes somebody should, but I guess a democracy such as Israel should be expected to be better than Iran....

[Phaenx]

As long as we're agreeing that they exist. That said, a state religion isn't so bad as long as it isn't a stupid religion that makes them force it on people (I don't know anything about judaism, but they don't really seem to be forcing it on anyone.)

[Peetster]

I think it would surprise you that most Israelis are atheists. They know the Torah cold, because it is their written history, but they don't worship God or even believe in him. Sure, there are lots of Orthidox Jews running around, especially the older generation. Try wishing a 20 something Israeli "Happy Chanuka". They'll look at you like you wished them leprosy.

Arabs hate Israel for religious reasons that don't really apply. Isn't that ironic?

[Food Eater Lad]

Peet,

Do you have anything other than your word to back that up?

[Peetster]

14 visits to the country, as well as a continued business relationship with a large number of Israelis. My emperical evidence hardly counts as a hard news source, however, so I'll look for a good study.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally posted by Peetster
I think it would surprise you that most Israelis are atheists. They know the Torah cold, because it is their written history, but they don't worship God or even believe in him. Sure, there are lots of Orthidox Jews running around, especially the older generation. Try wishing a 20 something Israeli "Happy Chanuka". They'll look at you like you wished them leprosy.

Arabs hate Israel for religious reasons that don't really apply. Isn't that ironic?

Ive been 58 times and traveled through most of the country and that was not my experience. I think perhaps a different way to word that may be: In your experience most Israelis are atheists. I find that amazing; completey different from my visits there. I think many would be suprised at how many Palestinian Christians there are as well.

[pocon1]

If Israel was a strictly Jewish State, then why would Arabic Muslims be in their legislature? They can become Israeli citizens and they don't have to be Jews.

[josobot]

refer to http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/