slave reperations
 

Slave reperations... do you think that the decendents of slaves deserve reperations for their ancestors slavery?

also, not for the poll, but for the thread, do you think it will make anything better or worse?




i'm against reperations, and i don't think that they would make things better. possibly even worsen "race" relations.

I agree, reparations don't solve anything and probably would worsen the race relations.

i dont think somebody should be held to something that their ancestors did.

if so, then a lot of people would have to pay a lot of people $.

Confederacy
KIA 94.000
Disease etc 164.000
Total 258.000

Union
KIA 110.070
Disease etc 250.152
Total 360.222

I've always felt that those were reperations enough.

If we give slave reperations then I want money from the royal family of England for oppressing my ansectors for hundreds of years. *insert Monty Python reference here* "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!"

Affirmative Action.

I think we all know how well reparations works out in the end.....


Also, why not take a request for reparations to Africa...after all, a huge amount of the slaves were able to get over here only with help from the African slave traders. Africans often caught and delievered them to the white man... why not ask them for reparations? because they dont have money... All reparations are about is greed....not equality...

I hate to say this, but... If it's so bad here (in the US), then feel free to move back to where ever your ancestors come from. If you think you are missing something, you're more than welcome to go and find it. Reperations will only hurt our country worse than the civil war did.

If it is so bad here, why do so many more people want to come here for relief, and a new way of life. Yes, slaves were brought here against their wills, but there were people in those countries catching them, and selling them to the highest bidder, all of our ancestors are to blame, not just the white mans.

And 80% of Americans today are descendants of immigrants that came AFTER slavery was abolised. Do they have to pay?

What about mullattos? Do they pay themselves?

Do the irish get reperations, after all 50% of the population of Ireland was brought to America as slaves ( a historical fact no one seems to talk about, WHITE SLAVES they existed) or is reparations only for blacks?


I think everyone got reparations. After all whites and blacks now live in a nation that was made prosperous in the early years by slave labour. Black America if seperated from All America is the 7th richest nation in the world, and does better than ALL of Africa. Everyone living in America enjoys the fruits of slavery, wether they want to admit it or not. Reparations are just an example of greedy i want something for free mentality.

Sure they can have reperations, a ticket back to africa. slave reperations now are a stupid idea and will do a horrible amount of damage.

Whoa harsh.

hold up people.....if somebody demands a change in america, i've heard people say "if u dont like it, then get out".

wtf?

if you dont like something, try and CHANGE it.

Okay, maybe my statement is a little harsh, but asking for something that is owed to you for things that dead people did to dead people (at least how many generations ago now?) is not right either. My ancestors came to America well after the Civil War, so should I be held accountable for slavery? If this were to happen, then the any culture can go back to a time when they were repressed, and expect money from the oppressing peoples, that are very long gone.

i agree w/ u 100%.

they're just asking for reperations. i'm sure that there are lots and lots of groups out there that thinks that the govt owes them $$ (should they all move out?). And i dont think this is common with all african-americans. only the attention crazed ones like jesse jackson/al sharpton say this rhetoric. i've asked me black friends (close ones) if they want reperations and they have all said no.

Are they happening? Or seriously being discussed in Washington?

If so...then I want reparations from the Catholic Church for beheading two of my ancestors, and driving the rest from Switzerland, in the 16th century. Come to think of it, I want reparations from Switzerland, as well.

Ahh, you didn't really like those ancestors anyway. Aren't they the same ones that always ate all the stuffing at family dinners? :D

If I'm going to pay for slavery, I expect some slaves in return.

Reparations will do nothing to improve race relations.

Besides how would we devide the spoils? Where do we stop? Do the 2500 descendents of Freed Slaves who became slaveowners get some of the money? Do the people who came here after slavery need to pay? How about the southern sharecroppers who did not own slaves.

Way to many questions without answers.

Very interesting point. Speaking of reperations in general,does a time line exist for those who get and those who don't?

For instance,German companies as well as the German government paid out billions of dollars to Jewish holocaust survivors and their families for the atrocities commited against Jews.

Not so the case with between 1-2 million non-Jewish Poles who suffered the same fate in concentration camps. Apparently their claims were viewed as secondary and incidental.

In Canada during and after WWII Japanese citizens were put in camps for security reasons and immigration from China wasn't allowed. How about these folks?

In years down the road will screening people who may be thought of as suspicious because of race or religion regarding terrorism be seen as a civil rights issue? If so,what may they expect in terms of a settlement?

Well your government did not promise you money for this. Slaves were promised what was it, 20acres and a mule or something? They never got it and if they had then maybe they would have had a better start on a free society. I am not for or against them by the way. I am sorta in the middle.

Nice. I got a big F.U. for you bro.

one for you too.

u sure that was slaves and not indentured servants?

Did anyone see the skit on the Chapelle show about reparitions coming through for african americans?

Oh man, it was classic. Stocks for fast food fried chicken restaurants sky rocketed :lol:

isnt that for their part in the civil war?

Yes, this is what should be paid back. Some blacks are asking for a lot of money to compensate for cultural, educational, and agricultural losses but some think they should be paid what they were promised. Like I said I’m not really for this, I am more for better social programs to educate people and help them get on their feet.

I think that the bulk of the money demanded is for the labor that these slaves did in plantations.

Okay, the people responsible for breaking this promise should pay back the freed slaves. It's going to involve a lot of grave digging equipment and some animatronics, but we just might be able to pull it off.

NONE OF THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS PARTICULAR INJUSTICE ARE CURRENTLY ALIVE. If you want to atone for the injustices a bunch of now-dead people committed against other now-dead people, just where do you draw the line?

Since all of my black friends in college were getting free rides, I'm not sure what else we can give.

Also remember, very few people make themselves better by giving them something for free. As a different example look at how messed up the kids of rich parents can be.

The concept of paying Reparations out as cash settlements is riddiculous. There is no way to gauge what each person should be paid, and where are we going to get the money? Would blacks whose families came after slavery be exempt or included because they are part of a racial group and culture that has been descriminated against? Would we take the value of 40 acres and a mule from the late 1800's, add the inflationary value and give each person that amount? Or perhaps we should also include an addtional interest rate assuming their anscestors would have invested wisely. It would be an impossible and ineffiecient project.

I think that many who are pushing the Reparations Movement are doing so to reiterate the difficulties that face blacks and the ongoing limitations that society has placed upon them. The hope is that greater attention will be paid to the lack of good education, job triaining, healthcare etc... in the predominately minority inner cities.

I could be way off base here, but I can't imagine that intelligent, thoughtful individuals could see the possibility of Reparations being realistic or even a good thing for America as a whole.

I don't think your black "friends" would appreciate you saying they are getting a free ride. I am sure they worked hard getting where they are. Are you paying for your education or are your parents?

Agree with most of your thoughts on this subject but definitely disagree on the last bits. The people pushing for this are doing so only to fuel their own political power. It's a loser of a cause because it will never happen, but by calling for it these "leaders" cement their political base behind them.

The other problem with reparations besides those already outlined, would be the precedent it sets for other groups. Not the least of which are the native americans who have a much better case and signed treaties/contracts outlining what they should have had control over.

And why is this a problem? Maybe we should give back what we owe.

And who exactly will determine what "we" owe? How much is owed to the Irish and Italian immigrants that toiled through the slums of New York? How much is owed to the Chinese laborers used to build the Railroads that allowed the country to expand west?

That's why it's a problem.

They had all tuition and housing paid for, plus they needed lower scores to get in and lower scores to stay in school.

Though I feel sorry for those who worked very hard and got good grades, since they got lumped in with those who were just taking a true free ride. You see thats who gets hurt in these programs, and why affirmative action HURTS race relations.

As for me, I was in school past highschool for ...... umm.....4...2...4...3, that makes 13 years. My parents helped with the first 4 (and I worked), the rest was me + loans, + a stipend. I'm still paying my loans. So your point was?

I think reperations through cash settlements are unsettling to me personally. However, reperations in the form of affirmative action I am very much in favor of. They have so much stacked against them that a little help in the admissions process is not a big deal.

that's an extremely blanketing statement.

do all black people that attend college have lower scores and get their feels and housing paid for?

look @ colin powell or condolizza rice.

If you look at crime statistics, blacks tend to commit significantly more violent crimes. Therefore they owe me and all other white people reparations for creating a society in which I can't feel safe in any largish city after dark.

Think that's a terrible, racist thing to say? Well so is claiming white people of today are responsible for what a few people who happened to share the same skin color did 150 years ago.

Then move.

I, for one, have never owned, borrowed or bartered for a slave. Based on this I don't feel the need to reperate anyone. On that same note, I have never once brokered, signed or weaseled out of any contract with any American Indian. Following my logic, I don't feel the need to give them back anything.

I didn't do the crime, yet the suggestion is I should pay for it.

Now, I'm an American. Should I be held responsible for the actions of my government and suffer the consequences for decisions that I didn't personally make?

I'm sorry that it happened; I'm ashamed that it happened; but my shame and condolences are all your entitled to from me.

Reparations are not a good idea because if you look through history, everyone owes someone somthing. We lied to the Native Americans and stole their land, we enslaved or virtually enslaved the African Americans, the Irish, the Jewish and even the lower class English. The Africans captured and enslaved other Africans both to sell to white people and to keep for themselves. The British and Spanish transported the slaves and kept some for themselves. Hell, if you look back far enough don't most of us deserve reparations because the Romans took over our ancestors' lands? Why don't we hunt down all the Roman's descendants and make them pay?

I'm willing to admit that my ancestors probably mistreated African Americans once upon a time. Now is not that time, though. Those who suffered are long since dead and those who inflicted the suffering are long since dead. How will this help anyone?

Christians should support slavery reparations. After all, that's the religion that says we all evil because some guy ate an apple a few thousand years ago. They don't seem to have a problem with the idea that sins are magically passed genetically somehow.

EDIT: that sounds an awful lot like a troll, but I am seriously interested in how a Christian who is anti-reparations can reconcile these two things.

Why should I move? Your troll post doesn't even make since.


I bet you don't make it far past rookie status.

Well, by this logic, I never voted for Bush, I attended anti-war rallies and was against going into Iraq. I don't want to pay for this 87 billion dollar "remodeling" contract. Thanks!


This thread wasn't about affirmative action but I will let you know why it is needed. See in your high school you had good teachers and enough money to pay for supplies, air conditioning, field trips, etc. A lot of black people live in inner city area's where they get none of that. So to help young black people move up and out of the ghetto we let them get into college with a bit lower scores because they didn't get the education you did. They qualify for scholar ships because they do not have the money to go to school. Should only the rich be allowed to get higher education? I bet you could have gotten some scholar ships also if you looked into it. I wrote about 7 essays and got 8k towards my education. I put in a lot of work to get help. I don't think this is unfair.

Also, if they are there for a "free ride" they will flunk out. Stop being a hater. At least they are getting an education. I don't consider busting your ass to get a college education a "free ride"


My point is you had parents that could help you get a start. That was my only point.

It would probably be even worse if all the people who were involved in the war on either side, were long dead. And you had to foot the bill.

If you want to give back what was taken and make reparations please leave. This land was the Indians before it was ever the white mans.

my post was not ment as a troll. It was mearly thrown out to show you how silly reparations really are. You can't make things rightinthe world. All you can do is move on. I don't have any ill will against you or your ancestors for taking my great grandfathers land. I don't expect to be compensated for this. I really don't hold any ill will against you for wiping out whole tribes.

Reparations are silly and should not be done. Besides I got Casinos :)

wait a second...this is as much his country as it is yours. you have no right to demand that he move since he has different views than you. trust me, this country is not homogenous.

Maybe you missed it. I did not come here from someplace else. If he wants to make reparations to me. He should move. His ancestors took my ancestors lands. His ancestors forced mine to relocate. Killing thousands along the way. My ancestors got left on indian reservations with food thay had no idea how plant on land that was unworkable. Where are my reparations?

It really does not bother me. I am more playing Devils advocate here. What does bother me is the fact that reparations are being demanded for one group and not another. I would venture to say that the Indians got screwed worse. The only reason I picked the Indians is the fact that I am one. (Indian by blood. Caucasian by upbringing. But thats another thread. One which I hope to post soon.)

But like I said earlier. At least we have casinos :)

I agree. If the government would give this land back to the Natives I would leave with smiles on my face.

actually, that's the thing, there do seem to be people who are intelligent who really think that it should be and is realistic. i brought this up because of two articles i read recently. one of them was about a black lady who is being prosecuted for tax fraud because her father misfiled her taxes, leading to a $500,000 return. And she spent it in a week or two. Appearantly, there were a lot of people who claimed reperations on their taxes, but most were caught in the processing. There had been a rumor going around that the govt. was giving them, and i guess some beleived it, but the father said they were owed it. anyways, the article was on yahoo news 4 or 5 days ago, i think, so if you want to look for it. the other article wasn't all that special, just that some lady wanted them and had a meeting about it.

well, AA actually has nothing to do with reperations. it happens to be something that i have a big problem with, but that's for another thread.

how do you know that powell or rice didnt' have lower scores than the rest of their entering class at college? while it may be that they were at the top of their class, we don't know. for all we know, the black kid sitting across the library from you did get in with lower scores. but because of AA, blacks aren't held to the same standards as whites (and indians, dots, not feathers,). so when i'm in a group working on a class project, is the black kid in it really up to the universities standards, or is he not and am i gonna worry that he may be a weak link the group?


so then your point is that blacks should get an adavantage, an educational handout, because of their parents are don't know how to parent and are lacking the basic social responsibilities of a parent?

i have no problem with people, any people, getting scholorships. if they're earned. i have a problem with race being a qualification for getting one. if i started a scholorship for whites only, people would throw a shit-fit. but no one has a problem with black only scholorships. i would support economically based awards though. cause a poor black kid in the 'hood isn't any worse off than a poor white kid there.

also, i have to disagree with your thoughts on why AA is needed. giving people a boost because they came from a poor urban school. last time i checked, you don't need a computer in the classroom to learn. i didn't have one at my highschool, and i went to an uppermiddleclass white highschool in the third richest county in the US. you don't need calculators, or new books to learn either. a ten year old math book is just as good as a brand new one as long as it is in decent physical shape. throwing money at schools hasn't helped, because money isn't the problem. also, i don't think that the teachers in the poor urban school are any worse than those in other schools, at least in general. the problem in urban schools seems to stem more from a lack of desire to learn on the part of the students, and those who do wish to learn can't because of their peers. one of my friends works in an inner city school in detroit, another in baltimore (and she student taught in harlem). both of them have told me that the students don't really want to learn or be there, because they could be out making a shit load of money selling drugs, or doing something that they consider more worthwhile. and the parents don't care. there are students that do, but as a whole, they're rare.


and that is why me and my wallet hate you. :D

At the age of 19 Condolezza Rice graduated from college magna cum laude. I dont think she graduated cuz of AA.

But whats done is done. We can't really change this. All we can do is move forward in a positve light.

Reparations, to me, are just digging up the past. And there is alot in the this nations past that should just remain buried. We did it we learned from it and we have moved on.

Peace.

Double post. Sorry. I just get so excited sometimes.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/

The piece from yesterday......

2Wolves

Nobody can explain this?

Seems to me that if you believe in original sin, you follow the idea that sins are passed genetically somehow.

In that case, if you oppose slavery reparations, you're either blatantly contradicting yourself, or you don't believe enslaving other human beings is a sin worthy of being reconciled by the descendants of slave owners.

Sorry irseg, but monetary compensation is not a part of original sin.

Isreg, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

*Thank you Billy Madison*

/insert seretogis' troll gif here...

I think we should pay anyone who was slave a minimum of 100 million dollars. Slave owners should be taxed heavily to support such costs. Buy your cotton shirts now...

I am going to assume that no one read my post on the first page.

I read it. Agree 100%.

Sorry wasn't trying to be overly harsh but this was meant for the attention crazy ones like sharpton. The slaves deserved
reparations. Not their ancestors over 140 years later

Exactly. A lot of people forget that African Americans, Native Americans and other minority groups are not special ed children for us to pity. They are just as intelligent and capable as we white folks are and I don't really see why handouts are necessary in these areas. Slavery is over, our conquest of America is over, so why don't we judge people by their merits now rather than by their ancestors?

As a sidenote:

Darkblack, I respect your views that I have read on various threads and forums but isn't it a bit ridiculous to proclaim such bold statements about our personal lives? While Apex got started on the wrong foot, his other posts have been very well thought out and even you have agreed with him. And have you even been to my high school, let alone analyzed the way it was funded? Please keep your posts focused on things that you could possibly know.

I'd like to preface my comments with this:

As expected, we have refrained from mass flaming thus far. Good for us. Especially with such a touchy subject.
I have also been reminded how few people really know anything about this country's history.


Blacks deserve reparations. That doesn't mean they are a good idea.

I've written volumes on why I feel this in v3.0, and I'm afraid I'm not retyping them all.

To sum:

Blacks continue to suffer an inequality today because of the damage done during slavery.

Reparations could, but ultimately would not, eliminate the gap created by inherited wealth. (the term "inherited wealth" means far more than inheriting money)

This country is FAR from admitting what it did during slavery. In fact, very few people have any notion of what slavery was. As time passes the brutality has faded. The schoolbooks tell of kindly slave owners who sometimes had to discipline their loyal, but ignorant, pets. The common memory only has a vague, Disney-fied idea of slavery. Thus, reparations would not be understood, welcomed, or supported. Race relations would reach new heights of violence if such an idea were shoved down onto a populace that did not wholly support it.

If the vast majority understood why reparations are deserved, there would truly be no need. Why? I believe if so many were that enlightened, then human society, even the human spirit, would have been raised to heights heretofore unreached.

The civil war was not fought to free the slaves. Slaves and freedom were politically expedient rallying points.

Don't ever believe the fairy tale you were told in school.

Power was the reason for the civil war. The north was gaining it, and the south didn't want to lose it.


There is still a huge rift between black America, and the rest of America. Reparations may be deserved, but they'd do nothing to narrow that gap.

I agree go us!

Why do non-slaves deserve something from non-slave owners?

To sum:

So compensation with money is the answer? Get serious, what would they do to better themselves with money? I guarentee alot of that money would go towards the purchase of $100 Fubu Platinum shirts and some 20"s.

No offense, but what world do you live in? A Disney-fied idea of slavery? Are you serious? I don't think anyone, unless they are complete morons and moral bankrupt have a hard time grasping the evil that was slavery.


What baffles me is how anyone who is for reparations can put a price tag on something so horrible and wrong. Even if blacks are still lessers in society, does some check make it all better?

The only way I could ever get on board is if they were programs that would empower the black community. But seeing as to they already have Affirmative Action I dunno how that would work. No way you could justify taxing white Americans of today (which would be the method of payment) for something that happened 140 years ago.

I think it's more about our country trying to atone for what it did to the descendants of those wronged. It's America that did this repulsive thing. America belongs to us, and it's past belongs to us also.


I said "Reparations could, but ultimately would not..." So, I think I've already stated I do not think compensation with money is the answer. I reiterated that at the end of my post with this, "Reparations may be deserved, but they'd do nothing..."

In my mind, it's more the sincere attempt at some kind of reparation, and an apology, that must be made. So far America has never said, "look, we messed up. Bad. We're sorry." In and of itself, that would be significant.

While we're here, if there were to be cash payments made, it would be none of anyone's damn business what the money was spent on. I'd be very upset if someone told me, "hey, billege! Why are you buying that new video card? You should be bettering yourself." Who would decide when I'm bettered?

On a more personal level, and I sincerely mean no offense to you, you may want to rethink some things. You mention Fubu shirts and 20" rims with such a (white) disdain and dismissal, that I wonder; who are you to judge what black, or other, cultures choose to purchase?


In the American mind, the Nazi acts on the Jewish people are pretty much the blackest thing brought up when discussing what's the worst thing ever done by a nation, to a race.

Slavery affected more people, over a much longer period of time, and was just as deliberate and disgusting as the Holocaust.

Not to try and compare which was worse, that's impossible and irrational. But, I'm trying to point out that slavery is the moral equivalent.

However, few Americans put slavery in the same category as the Holocaust. But it was. In slavery, our country was every bit as bad as we feel the Nazis were.




As for the dollar amount, I agree with you. Attempting to put a price on slavery is ludicrous. It cannot be done.

Slavery cannot be erased, fixed, or made up for.

It can be acknowledged, owned, and then dealt with.




*edit*
I'd like to add this thought:

The question asked in this poll is "do you think black people deserve reperations for their ancestors being slaves?"

I answered that question meaning, "yes, reperations are deserved."

That is a different response than "yes, reperations should be made."

I think the vast majority of responders to this post are misinterpeting the original question as this:
"Do you thing black people should be given cash money as reperations for slavery."

I went on to explain why I feel they are deserved, but are not a workable idea.
Many posters are only discussing why payments should, or should not be made.
Few are discussing if they are deserved.

It's a subtle difference, but it is important.

Although Asians weren't out-and-out slaves, they weren't much better off. And this lasted until at least the 1920s.

Yet they do better than whites on average in tests and make more money too.

So, what gives? Could it be that success is related more closely to morality and hard work (both generally quite prevalent in Asian culture, not as much among blacks) rather than how one's ancestors lived 150 years ago?

Naaaahh, that would actually make sense. :rolleyes:

I did not own any slaves. Therefore, I don't have to apologize for a damn thing. America is a group of individuals who for the most part share in common the idea of a free country. It's not some kind of greater entity that we're all little parts of. It doesn't have its own consciousness, so it can't say "I'm sorry".

If reparations were made in cash, YES IT WOULD be my business to say how they spend it because IT'S MY FUCKING STOLEN MONEY. Furthermore the idea of reparations is to bring blacks up to the level of everyone else (which will NEVER EVER EVER happen if we just let them live off free handouts--that's why they're worse off!!) it's not going to happen through chrome rims and expensive clothing. If it went to helping them start a business or go to college, that would be beneficial.

I'm curious what effect would giving thousands of dollars (or even tens of thousands of dollars) to every African American would solve. Would this mean that people like Jesse Jackson would finally shut up? Or would they then demand that we make all African Americans have prominent positions in society? Where would it end? The African American community needs a new leader like MLK. Someone who recognizes the need for change in the non-African American community and in the African American community itself. You can only get so far by blaming "the man." Jesse Jackson and his kind only serve to propel the African American community into a greater sense of "victimhood."