Sparhawk

Ustwo, slightly off-topic, but since you mention them both in the same breath, I find it interesting the dynamic between your admiration of Reagan and TR. Especially in the light of TR being one of the first truly progressive (ie liberal) presidents. Is it more of an admiration of his character than his policies? If so, how do you seperate your admiration of his character from policies he enacted that you appear to despise?

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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Superbelt

And even in this made up text he really isn't thinking of himself as the anti-christ. He is just being hard on himself and he is taking the event poorly.

Again, where were you a DC 9/11 thread?

Ustwo

Sparhawk - TR was a liberal president for the day, and a personal hero of mine, but he was FAR from being a Liberal (tm).

Superbelt - Give it up, even you can't defend that crap. Never saw DC 9/11, only have basic cable, and I don't talk about subjects I know nothing of.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

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Superbelt

True, for today Teddy wouldn't be much of a liberal. But for his time he was very liberal.

That is the way the world works. Slowly and surely, the world picks up more and more liberal philosophies. The people who were liberals 100, 50 years ago would be called conservatives today. The people that us liberals are now, they are who conservatives will be in 50 years.

Just the entire history of it, slavery, civil rights, womens rights, enviroment, animal rights, progressive taxation, welfare, medicare, social security. Think of it all, it all started out as a liberal platform, and value. Now it's here to stay.
All our values are gaining ground, the conservatives are constantly playing catch up to us.

Ustwo

Rather then make a long post on how wrong you are, on something now totally off topic, make a new thread and I'll tell you how wrong you are.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Sparhawk

I notice that you didn't answer my questions, but moving on: so what exactly is a "Liberal(tm)"? The reason I'm asking is I feel a lot of good discussion can be generated by comparing definitions.

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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

filtherton

I've heard the definition that a liberal feels sorry for other people while a conservative feels sorry for him/herself. Seems accurate depending on which issue you are comparing them on. Obviously that definition doesn't really apply in light of each side's attitudes toward big business.

Maybe this should be a new thread, although its difficult to envision that thread not becoming a hatefilled flameyflame fest.

seretogis

You're right, slavery started as a liberal platform. Freeing the slaves was done by conservatives. Three cheers for the liberal platform..?

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Ustwo

I like your new avitar, a fictitious liberal tv president, the only kind that can win a national debate vrs a conservative and win, provided the script is there

I didn't answer your question because you basically asked me 'So when did you stop beating your wife.' Being a conservative does not make me hate anything TR did. TR understood there has to be a balance between business, the environment, and people. He wasn't extreme on any of them. Business must be free enough to run, but not waste the environment in the process. Note I said waste, TR was all for using our resources as they were needed for expansion of the US. He also felt that business shouldn't be able to cheat the worker, but at the same time said the business themselves need to not be cheated in kind. I see very little difference in how TR ran things compared to Reagan.

TR was about perfect in balance between left-right, and I doubt he would have any love for the welfare state we have created.

Also in your list of 'liberal' victories, its amusing how many were during republican presidents. Except for 'progressive' taxation, you can KEEP that one.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Superbelt

Eh, you know what I meant, and you know I'm RIGHT.

That's a very short list of liberal victories, taken off the top of my head. And yes some of them were implemented by Republican presidents and Republican legislators. But not all republicans are and have been conservative. Especially during the 60's there was a great deal of liberal to moderate republicans. It was the liberal ones who got civil rights passed. And the congress, up until '93 was democrat-liberal controlled for about 50 straight years.
That helped.

Ustwo

I see when a republican does a good thing he is a liberal.

Maybe that, or all conservatives are not the evil men you seem to make them out to be.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Superbelt

No Conservatives aren't evil men because they are conservative. I never thought that.

But progress happens because of liberals. The definition of conservative means "tending to oppose change."

Sparhawk

Quick history lesson: Republicans haven't always been the conservative party. It really wasn't until the 40's and 50's, when they were flooded with southern democrats, that the GOP started becoming the 'conservative' party.

Oh yes, and once again, you didn't answer my question: What is a "Liberal(tm)"?

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Ustwo

I see, so when Ike forced school desegragation in the south, it made the conservative democrats flock to the repulbican party?

I think we need some history lessons.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Sparhawk

No, but are you forgetting about the civil rights movement on purpose? I know it sucks to have the modern Republican Party have bigotry and racism as its raison d'etre, but it's true.

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"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Ustwo

BACK TO TOPIC.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

captain

Looks like Moonves may have some second thoughts. I think some people will hit him and his sponsers where it hurts-the wallet.

I don't believe you can make up scenes out of whole cloth and call it a serious portrayal of Reagan's life.

Also leaving out the increase in the economy shows that CBS is portraying the worts in Reagan's life without giving credit for the good parts. Bias?

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captain