First, everyone needs to calm down, because no one is listening anymore when tempers ignite and the name calling starts.

Well that has to stop before something unfortunate happens, because some of you have recieved warnings about this before.

So please, less "You liberals" and "You conservatives".


Second, I see a couple of issues that have been mixed together:

-Did the troops recieve proper training?

-If not, what is the root cause and can it be linked to current DOD policy?

-And is one side of the spectrum using this to make political hay?

I still say keep in mind that all this is comming from their defence lawyers.

In my above post you may notice that i didn't say anything about rumsfeld other than the fact that i didn't know if it could be linked to him. Clearly someone has fucked up.

It depends on how you look at it. I know we can't necessarily trust lawyers, but that doesn't mean they always lie. Half empty v. half full. Call me naive, but i don't have a hard time believing that these folks were undertrained.

Can it really be considered highjacking the thread when the person that starts it changes it to talk about our troops living in poverty? I think not. You may not agree with the message but I'm replying to what was already posted by the thread starter. Perhaps if the original poster stayed on topic then the thread would stay on target. Nah, that can't be it.

You portend to speak for the liberal side, I commented about the new liberal strategy that they've been extolling over the last year or so, if you don't like it too damn bad. You choose to insult me personally, I didn't insult you. Just like you I have an opinion. If you can't hack it without resorting to name calling then you need help. You know nothing about me yet want to label me a bigot and a troll. Your family history in the military has nothing to do with the discussion. I too have quite a few family members in the military, I have also spent time under military command.

That's all I have to say to you. Good luck to you in life.

I like grape jelly. *drool*

No offense, but why should i trust the mighty debaser any more than some random defense lawyer? I know you aren't claiming that you have definite direct knowledge of the training these particular reservists undertook.

Maybe because debaser isn't paid to lie :)

Because I am currently in the military, and I know what the required training is to make it out of Basic Training/Boot Camp. If these people were Marines, then I assure you they had that training, as does every enlisted member of every branch. Officers have absolutely no excuse, since a large portion of their initial training consists of ethics and LOLW.

Maybe, maybe not. You aren't really in any postition to comment on that. Maybe he is one of those people who makes statements of fact without really having any basis for them. I don't know debaser from my uncle at this point.
Based on his above post i believe that he knows what he is talking about on this matter.

So yeah, if these soldiers did what they are accused of them they will get what they deserve.

I'll take the odds.

I KNOW defense laywers lie.

I am not SURE if debaser lies.

So the smart money is on debaser :)