Anti -Matthew Shepard Monument to disgrace his Hometown - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Astrocloud · 10-05-2003, 05:19 PM

http://www.365gay.com/newscontent/10...psMemorial.htm

Phelps To Erect Matthew Shepard Monument

by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff

Casper, Wyoming) Anti-gay preacher Fred Phelps has announced intentions to erect a monument to Matthew Shepard the gay college student brutally murdered five years ago near Laramie.

But, the monument will be no memorial. Phelps says the monument would be 5 to 6 feet tall and made of marble or granite. It would bear a bronze plaque bearing the image of Shepard and have an inscription reading "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22."

The monument would be erected in downtown Casper, Shepard's home town.

Phelps has sent details of the monument to the city of Casper city council and there may be nothing the city can do to prevent it.

Phelps said he intends to put up the monument in City Park, already the location of a controversial statue of the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments statue was donated to the city by the Fraternal Order of the Eagles in 1965.

After a court battle over a similar monument in the city of Ogden, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that any city that displays a Ten Commandments monument on public property must also allow monuments espousing the views of other religions or political groups on that same property.

Phelps told Casper council in his letter that if it attempts to prevent him from erecting the homophobic monument he's prepared to go to court.

"That is exactly what I said would happen," said Councilwoman Barb Watters. She said she warned the city when it accepted the Ten Commandments statue that the city risked other monuments advocating anti-Semitism and hatred of other minorities.

''I think the hate language will find a very cold reception in this community,'' councilor Paul Bertoglio said. ''I think this community's backbone is going to come up and say 'We are not going to accept it.'''

The city council is looking at several options, one is fighting Phelps in court, another is moving the Ten Commandments out of the park, and yet another proposal would be to sell the land the park is on.

Phelps says he doesn't care what the city decides. If he is unable to put the statue in City Park he said he will find another location in the city.

During Shepard's funeral members of Phelps' Westoboro Baptist Church demonstrated in front of the chapel

JBX · 10-05-2003, 06:03 PM

What the fuck is wrong with people? And this Fred Phelps thinks he's a preacher? What a dick.

Superbelt · 10-05-2003, 06:16 PM

Eh, let him spend the money to erect this thing. You think it will last it's first month on display?

That thing will get smashed and vandalized beyond recognition.

And I hope the city isn't responsible for it since they will be protesting and fighting it's placement.

Food Eater Lad · 10-05-2003, 06:39 PM

Man some people will do anything to make peopel think that they are NOT gay....

The_Dude · 10-05-2003, 06:52 PM

My suggested solution : remove the ten commandments and not allow any kinda religious BS on govt property.

JBX · 10-05-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
Man some people will do anything to make people think that they are NOT gay....

There, you did it. I laughed and spit out soda on my keyboard. Thanks, I needed that.

ObieX · 10-05-2003, 09:06 PM

Starting a collection to erect a marble statue of Fred Phelps.

Taking suggestions on captions... possibly, "Fred Phelps, Entered Hell [date to be entered later after he is killed] in Defiance of God's Law: 'Love Thy Neighbor.', and for Inciting Hatred amongst the Children of God. Have a nice day.

"

Also taking sugestions on the pose.

Sledge · 10-05-2003, 09:16 PM

Charming.

Can't think of anything to say that isn't obvious or obscene.

seretogis · 10-05-2003, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ObieX
Starting a collection to erect a marble statue of Fred Phelps.

Taking suggestions on captions... possibly, "Fred Phelps, Entered Hell [date to be entered later after he is killed] in Defiance of God's Law: 'Love Thy Neighbor.', and for Inciting Hatred amongst the Children of God. Have a nice day. "

Also taking sugestions on the pose.

I couldn't agree more. Fight fire with fire.

As for the pose, I suggest Phelps in womens' lingerie, stuffing toilet paper into the bra.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-05-2003, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
My suggested solution : remove the ten commandments and not allow any kinda religious BS on govt property.

Yep. This is why the Klan always has a cross up in Cincinnati every year, because the city won't take down the nativity scene.

Phaenx · 10-05-2003, 09:56 PM

Erecting a monument to your own stupidity, buddy. Let him, engrave his name and address on the statue as well so people know who to thank. He'll take it down himself in a month.

Harmonia · 10-05-2003, 09:56 PM

Doesn't seem like a very 'brotherly' thing for a preacher to put up. I'm not so sure that the statue will be standing for too long, though. Hell, I'll help in tearing it down.

chavos · 10-05-2003, 10:06 PM

*shudder

i would be spitting mad about this, save for the humor and grace which y'all have shown in responding to this. i hope the city at least prevents it from being on city land...

Food Eater Lad · 10-05-2003, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JBX
There, you did it. I laughed and spit out soda on my keyboard. Thanks, I needed that.

I am glad you laughed, I was dead serious when I typed it. I mean why such anger? The man is obviously obessesd with this handsome young man to be so wanting to erecte something hard like a monument in his honor. This preacher is so gay and self hating it is almost funny.

Mojo_PeiPei · 10-05-2003, 10:30 PM

Wasn't Phelps the guy that Michael Moore took his sodomy mobile too on his TV show???

seretogis · 10-06-2003, 01:24 AM

Phelps is the guy that ran godhatesfags.com.

sixate · 10-06-2003, 02:19 AM

**Newsflash**

Religion = Hate

I don't care if anyone wants to believe it or not, but it's true. That's why I'm not surprised, and why I'll never associate myself with any bullshit religion.

lurkette · 10-06-2003, 05:55 AM

Bigots, can't live with 'em, can't take them out and shoot them without turning them into martyrs. Best thing to do is laugh at them, ignore them, and do what you can to spread the opposite message.

Thraeryn · 10-06-2003, 06:25 AM

This sort of thing is why our founding fathers called for a separation of church and state. Government has no right to leave any religious message up.

It's not that you're supposed to publicly support all religions; you're SUPPOSED to separate your government actions from all of them!

LewisCouch · 10-06-2003, 07:28 AM

This so called preacher has lost his moral compass. Hopefully, his fixation with Matthew Shepard (RIP), will lead him south someday.

Sledge · 10-06-2003, 07:32 AM

I don't know if it's a "separation of church and state" thing so much as "being a non-asshole" thing. But I guess your beliefs determine what you do.

For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
- St. Paul

Yeah.

eple · 10-06-2003, 07:35 AM

Well wow....how much more of an asshole can this guy be without killing jews or flying planes into buildings? I saw the good ol' godhatefags.com site in it's days, and were shocked even by that.

I agree with many of you, this man is clearly the most self-hating gay in denial on earth. I think I saw Moore's sodomobile-run featuring a confrontation with Phelps. Good stuff

. Even though Moore is, as many of the posters here have pointed out, fat and a lying fat liar who lies and are fat. I believe him being fat and lying were also mentioned.

Superbelt · 10-06-2003, 07:38 AM

Phelps is selective with the bible. He forgets that Jesus' best friends were prostitutes and sinners.

And it's a mortal sin to think to know Gods mind and determine for yourself who is going to hell and who isn't

chavos · 10-06-2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Religion= Hate

Sixate, I'm sorry, but that statement is out of line. It's wrong. It's offensive. It's beneath the standards of this community.

Religion is a human endevor, and there will be shortfalls, as witnessed by the tremendous and appalling hate preached against GBLT persons by some. But that is not the only truth of religion. You conviently ignore the deep resevoir of love and justice that has been the source of courage and hope for oppressed communities and their allies. So please, if you must believe that religion is a hateful endevour, try to at least keep the hate out of your own speech. Thank you.

Lebell · 10-06-2003, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
**Newsflash**

Religion = Hate

I don't care if anyone wants to believe it or not, but it's true. That's why I'm not surprised, and why I'll never associate myself with any bullshit religion.

*shakes head*

Sixate, I know you won't believe me, but this type of unreasoning hatred is just the thing that Fred Phelps engages in.

Let it go before it eats you alive.

Anyway, Fred Phelps is another angry soul that I feel sorry for while at the same time I think he should be kept away from small children, old people and others who can't defend themselves from his hatred.

Lebell · 10-06-2003, 11:04 AM

Just so you can see the faces involved and know the reality of what some groups do in the name of hatred:

The proposed monument:

In Hawaii

In Salt Lake City

Targeting the Episcopal Church:

Matthew Sheppard's Funeral

And finally, the man responsible for this hatred, Fred Phelps:

Food Eater Lad · 10-06-2003, 11:15 AM

I thought Christ also put an end to the old jewish customs and laws or is Phelps still not wearing cotton clothes, or smiting those that dont keep the sabbath? Does he preach that parents should kill their children if they strike them? Does he smear goats blood on his doorway on Passover? The Old Testement has lots of rules and laws and since he is using the Old Testement, why is he following only one of the laws?
Does he own slaves as it says is ok? Does he sleep with his wife's handmaidens?

My guess is that he would rather sleep with his wife's hairdressers.

Food Eater Lad · 10-06-2003, 11:19 AM

This was originally sent to Dr Laura, but I think it also works here.

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are the Biblical verses refered to above, in two different translations: the King James Version [KJV], and New International Version [NIV]

Lev 18:22 [KJV] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. [NIV] Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Lev 1:9 [KJV] But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD. [NIV] He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.

Exodus 21:7 [KJV] And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. [NIV] If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do.

Lev 15:19-24 [KJV] And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. 20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. 21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. 24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.
[NIV] When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. 20 Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening. 24 If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

Lev 25:44 [KJV] Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. [NIV] Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

Exodus 35:2 [KJV] Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. [NIV] For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Lev 11:10 [KJV] And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you [NIV] But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales --- whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water --- you are to detest.

Lev 21:20 [KJV] Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken [NIV] or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles.

Lev 19:27 [KJV] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [NIV] Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Lev 11:6-8 [KJV] And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
[NIV] The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divied, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcases; they are unclean for you.

Lev 19:19 [KJV] Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee. [NIV] Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

Lev 24:10-16 [KJV] And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp; 11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the Lord, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan

12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them. 13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. 15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. 16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
[NIV] Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the name of the LORD with a curse; so they brough him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them. 13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

Lev 20:14 [KJV] And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. [NIV] If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

sixate · 10-06-2003, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chavos
Sixate, I'm sorry, but that statement is out of line. It's wrong. It's offensive. It's beneath the standards of this community.

Religion is a human endevor, and there will be shortfalls, as witnessed by the tremendous and appalling hate preached against GBLT persons by some. But that is not the only truth of religion. You conviently ignore the deep resevoir of love and justice that has been the source of courage and hope for oppressed communities and their allies. So please, if you must believe that religion is a hateful endevour, try to at least keep the hate out of your own speech. Thank you.

I'm sorry that you disagree, but if you look back through history most huge wars are over...... You got it. Religion.
Religion may be a human endeavor for you, but that doesn't mean that it is for me. From my experiences religion teaches people to hate anything that their religion doesn't believe in. It's all I've seen throughout my entire life. How is me saying religion = hate any worse than people saying that Bush is a fucking moron or a terrorist himself? Yet, for some reason that is allowed. I personally don't see a difference between the two.

And Lebell, I can give you you hundreds of experiences that I have gone through which have created my opinion. I can guarantee that you would agree with me that my experiences with religion are completely fucked up. Just because you have had different experiences with it doesn't mean that I'm not entitled to my opinion, and I know for a fact that 90% of religious people that I know are 1000x more hateful than me.

This is exactly why I have so much trouble with people who believe... Because when I tell it how I see it theist's see it as a threat and get pissed and offended because they see it as though their way is being looked down on. Yet, it's perfectly OK for theists to look down on me and think I'm fucked up because I don't believe in an all knowing all powerful invisible man who floats around in the sky and looks down on us all and see's everything that is happening at every second of every day. Sorry, but that's just ridiculous to me. Hate has nothing to do with my disbelief. IMO, it's called common sense. I have no problem if people want/need to believe. I understand that the basics of religion are good, but people have screwed it up, and I've seen a lot more bad done than good.

I don't think my way is better than anyone else's. My way is best for me. Your way is best for you. It's that simple. None of us can expect to have the same beliefs.

Food Eater Lad · 10-06-2003, 02:42 PM

As an atheist who used to say that religon caused more wars than anything else, i have to say this. ITs not true. Not even close. Look up every war in the history of the world, about 20 were over religon, the other 200 or so were other causes.
I still dont trust religion, but saying stuff that is not true doesnt help.

seretogis · 10-06-2003, 02:52 PM

Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.

sixate · 10-06-2003, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
As an atheist who used to say that religon caused more wars than anything else, i have to say this. ITs not true. Not even close. Look up every war in the history of the world, about 20 were over religon, the other 200 or so were other causes.
I still dont trust religion, but saying stuff that is not true doesnt help.

I understand what you're saying, but I said most huge wars, not all wars. I'm only guessing, but I'll bet that the 20 that were over religion are some of the largest wars ever. Please, tell me if I'm wrong and I'll take back what I said.

Food Eater Lad · 10-06-2003, 03:02 PM

You are wrong.

chavos · 10-06-2003, 03:03 PM

lets sit down and do that study some time in a new thread, but in the mean time, as a moderator, do you think you could back off of the overt flaming?

Food Eater Lad · 10-06-2003, 03:23 PM

Am I flamming? If I am I apologise. I didnt intend to.

Lebell · 10-06-2003, 03:28 PM

No,

But I do think that there is some thread hijacking going on and a new thread should be created if people really want to discuss these other issues.

And it could be an interesting thread.

sixate · 10-06-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Food Eater Lad
You are wrong.

OK. I'll trust what you say, and I take back what I said.

Chavos. I can assure you that I am not flaming. I'm simply trying to explain my opinion. That's all.

Why are my opinions taken so personally........

*goes and shuts the fuck up*

chavos · 10-06-2003, 03:50 PM

Sixate, i trust in your sincerity, but i have to question the single mindedness with which you proclaim that all religion is directly equivilant to hate. I just think that for the purposes of the civility of this board, that perhaps such statements should be refrained from. Such blanket condemnations of atheism would be similarly offensive to many members, no?

Anyhow, there's a new thread:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=30415

That's religion and war. k?

sixate · 10-06-2003, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chavos
Such blanket condemnations of atheism would be similarly offensive to many members, no?

Not by me. No, but I guess where I run into problems is the fact that I don't get offended because someone has a different view than the norm.

HarmlessRabbit · 10-06-2003, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
Not by me. No, but I guess where I run into problems is the fact that I don't get offended because someone has a different view than the norm.

Maybe if you didn't state your point in the most abrasive way possible more people would listen to what you say.

Read your statement again:

Quote:

I don't care if anyone wants to believe it or not, but it's true. That's why I'm not surprised, and why I'll never associate myself with any bullshit religion.

Are you just trying to start a flame war? Look at the consequences of your actions. You took a discussion that was going along reasonably well and completely threadjacked it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, Sixate. A lot of people here on the board seem to like you a lot. But here on Politics, you look to me like a classic Internet Troll.

10-05-2003, 05:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	Anti -Matthew Shepard Monument to disgrace his Hometown http://www.365gay.com/newscontent/10...psMemorial.htm Phelps To Erect Matthew Shepard Monument by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff Casper, Wyoming) Anti-gay preacher Fred Phelps has announced intentions to erect a monument to Matthew Shepard the gay college student brutally murdered five years ago near Laramie. But, the monument will be no memorial. Phelps says the monument would be 5 to 6 feet tall and made of marble or granite. It would bear a bronze plaque bearing the image of Shepard and have an inscription reading "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22." The monument would be erected in downtown Casper, Shepard's home town. Phelps has sent details of the monument to the city of Casper city council and there may be nothing the city can do to prevent it. Phelps said he intends to put up the monument in City Park, already the location of a controversial statue of the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments statue was donated to the city by the Fraternal Order of the Eagles in 1965. After a court battle over a similar monument in the city of Ogden, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that any city that displays a Ten Commandments monument on public property must also allow monuments espousing the views of other religions or political groups on that same property. Phelps told Casper council in his letter that if it attempts to prevent him from erecting the homophobic monument he's prepared to go to court. "That is exactly what I said would happen," said Councilwoman Barb Watters. She said she warned the city when it accepted the Ten Commandments statue that the city risked other monuments advocating anti-Semitism and hatred of other minorities. ''I think the hate language will find a very cold reception in this community,'' councilor Paul Bertoglio said. ''I think this community's backbone is going to come up and say 'We are not going to accept it.''' The city council is looking at several options, one is fighting Phelps in court, another is moving the Ten Commandments out of the park, and yet another proposal would be to sell the land the park is on. Phelps says he doesn't care what the city decides. If he is unable to put the statue in City Park he said he will find another location in the city. During Shepard's funeral members of Phelps' Westoboro Baptist Church demonstrated in front of the chapel

10-05-2003, 06:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
JBX Unfair and Imbalanced Location: Upstate, NY	What the fuck is wrong with people? And this Fred Phelps thinks he's a preacher? What a dick. __________________ "Youth and Strength is no match for Age and Treachery"

10-05-2003, 06:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	My suggested solution : remove the ten commandments and not allow any kinda religious BS on govt property. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

10-05-2003, 09:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
ObieX Pickles Location: Shirt and Pants (NJ)	Starting a collection to erect a marble statue of Fred Phelps. Taking suggestions on captions... possibly, "Fred Phelps, Entered Hell [date to be entered later after he is killed] in Defiance of God's Law: 'Love Thy Neighbor.', and for Inciting Hatred amongst the Children of God. Have a nice day. " Also taking sugestions on the pose. __________________ We Must Dissent.

10-05-2003, 09:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Erecting a monument to your own stupidity, buddy. Let him, engrave his name and address on the statue as well so people know who to thank. He'll take it down himself in a month. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

10-05-2003, 06:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Eh, let him spend the money to erect this thing. You think it will last it's first month on display? That thing will get smashed and vandalized beyond recognition. And I hope the city isn't responsible for it since they will be protesting and fighting it's placement.

10-05-2003, 06:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Man some people will do anything to make peopel think that they are NOT gay....

10-05-2003, 09:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	Charming. Can't think of anything to say that isn't obvious or obscene.

10-05-2003, 09:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
Harmonia Upright Location: Minnesota	Doesn't seem like a very 'brotherly' thing for a preacher to put up. I'm not so sure that the statue will be standing for too long, though. Hell, I'll help in tearing it down.

10-05-2003, 10:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	*shudder i would be spitting mad about this, save for the humor and grace which y'all have shown in responding to this. i hope the city at least prevents it from being on city land...

10-05-2003, 10:30 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Wasn't Phelps the guy that Michael Moore took his sodomy mobile too on his TV show??? __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

10-06-2003, 01:24 AM	#16 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Phelps is the guy that ran godhatesfags.com. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

10-06-2003, 02:19 AM	#17 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	Newsflash Religion = Hate I don't care if anyone wants to believe it or not, but it's true. That's why I'm not surprised, and why I'll never associate myself with any bullshit religion.

10-06-2003, 05:55 AM	#18 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Bigots, can't live with 'em, can't take them out and shoot them without turning them into martyrs. Best thing to do is laugh at them, ignore them, and do what you can to spread the opposite message. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

10-06-2003, 06:25 AM	#19 (permalink)
Thraeryn Loser	This sort of thing is why our founding fathers called for a separation of church and state. Government has no right to leave any religious message up. It's not that you're supposed to publicly support all religions; you're SUPPOSED to separate your government actions from all of them!

10-06-2003, 07:28 AM	#20 (permalink)
LewisCouch Insane Location: Pacific NW	This so called preacher has lost his moral compass. Hopefully, his fixation with Matthew Shepard (RIP), will lead him south someday. __________________ "The gift of liberty is like that of a horse, handsome, strong, and high-spirited. In some it arouses a wish to ride; in many others, on the contrary, it increases the desire to walk." -- Massimo d'Azeglio

10-06-2003, 07:32 AM	#21 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	I don't know if it's a "separation of church and state" thing so much as "being a non-asshole" thing. But I guess your beliefs determine what you do. For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. - St. Paul Yeah.

10-06-2003, 07:35 AM	#22 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway	Well wow....how much more of an asshole can this guy be without killing jews or flying planes into buildings? I saw the good ol' godhatefags.com site in it's days, and were shocked even by that. I agree with many of you, this man is clearly the most self-hating gay in denial on earth. I think I saw Moore's sodomobile-run featuring a confrontation with Phelps. Good stuff . Even though Moore is, as many of the posters here have pointed out, fat and a lying fat liar who lies and are fat. I believe him being fat and lying were also mentioned.

10-06-2003, 07:38 AM	#23 (permalink)
Superbelt This vexes me. I am terribly vexed. Location: Grantville, Pa	Phelps is selective with the bible. He forgets that Jesus' best friends were prostitutes and sinners. And it's a mortal sin to think to know Gods mind and determine for yourself who is going to hell and who isn't

10-06-2003, 11:04 AM	#26 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Just so you can see the faces involved and know the reality of what some groups do in the name of hatred: The proposed monument: In Hawaii In Salt Lake City Targeting the Episcopal Church: Matthew Sheppard's Funeral And finally, the man responsible for this hatred, Fred Phelps: __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! Last edited by Lebell; 10-06-2003 at 11:12 AM..

10-06-2003, 11:15 AM	#27 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	I thought Christ also put an end to the old jewish customs and laws or is Phelps still not wearing cotton clothes, or smiting those that dont keep the sabbath? Does he preach that parents should kill their children if they strike them? Does he smear goats blood on his doorway on Passover? The Old Testement has lots of rules and laws and since he is using the Old Testement, why is he following only one of the laws? Does he own slaves as it says is ok? Does he sleep with his wife's handmaidens? My guess is that he would rather sleep with his wife's hairdressers.

10-06-2003, 11:19 AM	#28 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	This was originally sent to Dr Laura, but I think it also works here. Dear Dr. Laura, Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them. a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die? i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your devoted disciple and adoring fan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are the Biblical verses refered to above, in two different translations: the King James Version [KJV], and New International Version [NIV] Lev 18:22 [KJV] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. [NIV] Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Lev 1:9 [KJV] But his inwards and his legs shall he wash in water: and the priest shall burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD. [NIV] He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. Exodus 21:7 [KJV] And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. [NIV] If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. Lev 15:19-24 [KJV] And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. 20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. 21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. 23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. 24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. [NIV] When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. 20 Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening. 24 If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean. Lev 25:44 [KJV] Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. [NIV] Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. Exodus 35:2 [KJV] Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. [NIV] For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. Lev 11:10 [KJV] And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you [NIV] But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales --- whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water --- you are to detest. Lev 21:20 [KJV] Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken [NIV] or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. Lev 19:27 [KJV] Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. [NIV] Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. Lev 11:6-8 [KJV] And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. [NIV] The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divied, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcases; they are unclean for you. Lev 19:19 [KJV] Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee. [NIV] Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Lev 24:10-16 [KJV] And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp; 11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the Lord, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan 12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be shewed them. 13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. 15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. 16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death. [NIV] Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the name of the LORD with a curse; so they brough him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them. 13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death. Lev 20:14 [KJV] And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. [NIV] If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

10-06-2003, 02:42 PM	#30 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	As an atheist who used to say that religon caused more wars than anything else, i have to say this. ITs not true. Not even close. Look up every war in the history of the world, about 20 were over religon, the other 200 or so were other causes. I still dont trust religion, but saying stuff that is not true doesnt help.

10-06-2003, 02:52 PM	#31 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

10-06-2003, 03:02 PM	#33 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	You are wrong.

10-06-2003, 03:03 PM	#34 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	lets sit down and do that study some time in a new thread, but in the mean time, as a moderator, do you think you could back off of the overt flaming?

10-06-2003, 03:23 PM	#35 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Am I flamming? If I am I apologise. I didnt intend to.

10-06-2003, 03:28 PM	#36 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	No, But I do think that there is some thread hijacking going on and a new thread should be created if people really want to discuss these other issues. And it could be an interesting thread. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-06-2003, 03:50 PM	#38 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	Sixate, i trust in your sincerity, but i have to question the single mindedness with which you proclaim that all religion is directly equivilant to hate. I just think that for the purposes of the civility of this board, that perhaps such statements should be refrained from. Such blanket condemnations of atheism would be similarly offensive to many members, no? Anyhow, there's a new thread: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=30415 That's religion and war. k?