looking for intelligent liberals and conservatives
 

I’m searching for some good books that illuminate the ideas behind the current political philosophies. In today’s society of the “look at me now!” media- the political commentary scene seems to be filled with Coulter, limbaugh, press, o’reilly and micheal moore types that simply will not stand the test of time.

Where are the modern day Rousseau’s, Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, Machiavelli, Edmund Burke, and Plato(s)?

I appreciate the Al Frankens for at least not taking themselves seriously, however, he can’t hold a candle to the literary or political genius of say Jonathan Swift. I like listening to Larry Elder and William F. Buckley because of their sharp wit and their ability to at least listen before speaking. I enjoy reading a Russel Kirk essay, however I wouldn’t mind reading something a bit more lively. Should I look at reading something by Milton Friedman? Thanks for any suggestions.

Chomsky

Derrick Jensen, John Rawls, or Robert Nozick

More practically, try The Conscience of a Liberal by Paul Wellstone.

Good luck.

Not trying to be facetious. Really, I mean...good luck.

For a well done rebuttal of the Limbaughs, and Coulters, go to Joe Conason author of Big Lies. It also has plenty on the merits and accomplishments of liberalism.

Take a look at George Lakoff's "Moral Politics" for a cognitive psych take on liberal vs. conservative ideology.

"Democracy's Discontent" by Michael Sandel is good.

Chomsky is good, very "critical-theory" oriented.

What about "A Confederacy of Dunces"? Fiction, and old fiction at that, but still enlightening.

Anything by John Rawls.

Gore Vidal, Kevin Phillips, haven't read their stuff but have heard good things.

Yeah, i know where you are coming from. Its refreshing to have someone actually listening and thinking before answering.

Re: looking for intelligent liberals and conservatives
 

They're few, far between, and hard to find because they get shouted down by the little thinkers with big lungs. Here's a few I've come across:

Leo Strauss The godfather of the neoconservative movement. His work was taken from theory to policy by Irving Kristol. While I repudiate and despise everything that neoconservatism stands for, that makes it no less a legitimate political philosophy. Worth investigating and reading if only for the sense of "there but for the grace of God go I."

Gary Hart has had his share of PR problems (see: 1998, blonde, not wife, lap), but his "Restoration of the Republic" is a masterwork and a truly inspiring piece of political philosophy.

David C. Korten is an excellent conservative social philosopher with a strong anticorporate message. His "When Corporations Rule the World" is a rhetorical tour de force. If I could, I'd make it required reading for every Political Science major in every university in America.

Noam Chomsky is simply indispensable. I need to go pick up his new one, "Toward a New Cold War: Essays on the Current Crisis and How We Got There"

There are others as well - some folks swear by Ayn Rand (I don't), there are quite a few who read Gore Vidal, and so on and so forth. General tip: avoid the talking heads and go for the heavy scholarly stuff. Actually, college bookstores are great places to get the good stuff as well as pointers towards more.


P.S. I'm a highlander - at least, I'm descended from them. Is it ok if I learn the swordfighting stuff? I hope so, otherwise I've wasted several good years of my life.

I completely agree with John Rawls' nomination. Easily the most prominent political philosopher of the 20th century. Based on your nominations, it looks like you're primarily interested in conservatives, so allow me to nominate Bill Kristol and Thomas Sowell. Heather MacDonald has had two well-received books. Though not strictly a philosopher (or a conservative), I felt the most recent works by Steven Pinker were excellent. If it's wit and sharpness of observation you're after, you might enjoy Theodore Dalrymple, though his normal profession is that of a physician. I've also liked David Brooks and Joseph Epstein, though they are more social observers than political philosophers. Neither are strictly conservatives either, but then again my "approved" list of conservative literature is quite short.

Stay away from Coulter, Savage, O'Reilly, Limbaugh. Burn Pat Buchanan, especially the newer works. On the other side of the spectrum, I would avoid the hysterics of Joe Conason and Eric Alterman. They are no better, simply on the other side. I barely got through them both. Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky are simply trash: run from anything labeled "critical" anything. They are polemicists and nothing more. Quite a shock as Chomsky in particular is not quite so virulently paranoid in person. You might as well read Susan Sontag or Carol Gilligan or somesuch nonsense, at least they are unintentionally funny. Bell Hooks (sometimes known as) "bell hooks" is also good for a laugh.

-- Alvin

thanks... i guess i found some intellegent liberals and conservatives right here.

and ctembruell: swing away with your sword. just use the big one and keep the little away tucked away.

Someone mentioned Swift...remember A Modest Proposal...I think we are there...we harvest and eat the young ( abortion and fetal research) so the old can live a little longer at great profit to the medical community. Read Nietzsche and just think about the nature of the world from an American Indian's perspective.

*sigh*

FYI, "A Modest Proposal" was about class inequity. The proposal was for the rich to eat the young of the poor. I agree that we are there.

I think personally that liberals and conservatives have become "categorized", mostly by the dogma delivered by the above mentioned authors. Is it possible to find someone that truly thinks "out of the box"?

Philosophies that are class based, go nowhere. That's why Marxism collapses, it condemns, then just introduces another class structure. American slaves had longer lifespans than contemporary Irish. In the long haul, the society with the better family structure will succeed.

Chomsky, definitely.

Uh, your point here is..? That slavery isn't class-based?

So to be a intelligent liberal/conservative you have to write a book few people read?

I find Limbaugh and Coulter to be quite intelligent if you don't just listen to the sound bites, and what other people say about them, but instead read their books and listen to their commentary for more then a few moments.

Has anyone read Paul Krugman's "The Great Unravelling"? The book's been on the best seller list for a while. He is an actual Economist, with a Ph.D and everything.

I haven't read it yet but I heard his interview on Fresh Air few weeks ago. I'll get to it eventually.

Actually, I just finished it last night. I'll confess to being a bit disappointed in the book's actual content - mostly, it's just a collection of his columns, a large number of which I'd read before. But that doesn't detract at all from the importance of the book. It's a very focused collection, with columns arranged by topic and in an order which provides coherent narratives througout each topical area.

The book is, as is Krugman moderate-to-liberal in tone, with some very interesting departures into positions that are traditionally conservative - notably, his takes on market economies are not what you'd expect from your average liberal columnist. The subject matter is very nearly as broad as it is deep - good, if not exhaustive coverage on a wide range of issues between 1999 and early 2003. And Krugman's message is very clear: the Bush Administration is an abject failure, and is the source of many of the problems plaguing America today. He's adroit at parrying attempts to blame things on Clinton, and he's also fair enough to say what is Bush's fault and what is not. The book will probably make liberals very angry (or even angrier?) at the state of the country. It will probably make conservatives very angry at Krugman himself.

If the book has a weakness, it's Krugman's professorial style (not surprising, he is a self-described academic) and its relative choppiness - a byproduct of its format as a collection of short columns. Patience is required when reading, and a source of information on economic concepts will come in handy (your old Macroeconomics text should serve quite well - mine did). But the bottom line is that The Great Unraveling is excellent from beginning to end. That said, it's *not* a seminal work of political philosophy. It's too temporal, and too rooted in events, not theory. Krugman certainly can't be considered a modern-day philosopher, but he can and should be considered one of the best columnists out there - and this book shows why.

As others have said, Chomsky.



SLM3

Chomsky? First, read this http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/06/70798.html

Paul Krugman is good. He can be a little dry at some times, but that is because he is a serious guy. Also, even though he leans to the left, he doesnt let the left get away with being stupid.

I have not read "The Great Unravelling" but I read "Peddling Prosperity" which was very informative.

Are there any leftists who arn't always 'serious guys' who are so humorless that the only time they can crack a smile is when they aquire power or are raising taxes?

I can't think of any off hand.

Ustwo: I think you should focus more on sharing what books you think are useful and interesting rather than shooting down the beliefs of others. Both of your posts in this thread so far have been pretty abrasive. The question is what you think is *good* to read, not why other people are wrong.


Nickel & Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich is a really great book that shows the condition of a typical unskilled worker in America. It's definitely coming from the liberal side, but the reporting is more factual than opinionated, and I'm sure anyone could find useful information in there.

I don't know if he counts as political, but I've found the philosopher Ken Wilber's stuff to be fascinating:

http://wilber.shambhala.com/index.cfm/

He's got an essay on the war in iraq that is a bit mind-bending:

http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/misc/iraq.cfm