Why Are Cops Better Than Me?
 

Alright, Disclaimer, first off. 1) Any police, or supporters, this thread is aimed at you, if you are an officer that's great becuase I want answer from someone like yourself although everyone is welcome to post.
2)To make myself clear, I understand that we need police now, in today's world, and that without some drastic changes we always will, but, for myself I don't support them.
3) I hope that I don't offend anyone, these are just my thougts.


Alright, telling someone else that they can't do something takes a basic amount of ego. Boil down any command and basicly its "You can't do that becuase I say so." So, what my question is, for police officers, what makes you better than me? What makes it so you can tell me what to do? Is it your training? This is the first answer that comes to my mind which is why I am starting police foundations after summer. I will get the same training that any officer will get. So, that out of the way, we both have the same training, is it becuase you have a gun? might makes right? If that's true then that's horrible. By gun I just mean force, like mabye not the gun, but the fact that you could beat me up, and the fact that you have a entire 'justice' system to enforce your judgments, the oprative word being 'enforce' or 'force' might makes right.
So, eather it's your might, or something else. Is it just becuase of your badge? becuase of the job you have? Becuase your just doing your job? Doing what people tell you to do when you pull someone over, or when you tell someone what they can and can't do?
I can't think of any other reasons why you have authority over me then those and if thats all there is how can people not realise it and try to make things better?
Please, no flameing, yes from my avatar you might notice that I am an anarchist, but that's not really where this thread is coming from, I have been thinking about this for long before I was an anarchist. So lets not debate anarchy yet, mabye later in the thread or mabye in an other thread, I want to find out what's up with cops.

understand this. they don't only take the proscribed training courses, go through the same exams, and understand the same basic principles of the human psyche that you do, they actually get into a uniform every day and apply those skills. they have taken the responsibility to police the general public, to be the designated enforcers of the law... those responsibilities give them certain powers that ordinary citizens do not and should not have. if everyone took care of themselves and lived in a lawful, peaceful manner, there'd be no need for police, but the simple fact is that there's a huge segment of humanity that will always be pushing at the borders of the law, always challenging and trying to find ways around the law, and that's where these police derive their powers.

is that to say that there are police out there who abuse those powers? absolutely, but that isn't something that we can help. there will always be bad seeds, and sometimes those bad seeds find it's easier to hide behind the badge than from it. beyond those few, police do a job that no-one else would do. they enforce the laws and protect citizens from those who break them. it's really a shitty job, but they still do it. don't knock it.

Alright, So your saying that the fact they are officers gives them the authority, becuase they put on the uniform everyday. Why do you think that people push the limits of law? For this discussion lets not enclude the mentally handicapped, as in severe socieopaths(sp?) Normal people, the ones challenging and trying to find ways around the law are doing so becuase they are taught from birth that this is what you can and can't do and derive a need to rebel from there, do something just becuase there not allowed. Eather its that or they don't like the law in which case it should be changed.

Also in this thread we all know there are bad cops, it sucks but its true, I'm talking more about the good ones though, just your normal cop

Reply edited for rude and insulting comments to another member.

They're not better than you, they're representatives of the law. They have authority because we, society, say they do. We want them to keep the peace so we as a society give them the authority to do so. The gun and the attitude are just tools to accomplish their assigned task.

I think it may be a power trip for many cops.
ever notice the biggest jerks seem to be younger, rookie types?
the older cops mellow, and are more concerned with enforcing the law, rather than their will.
better training and/or pre-screening would help!
small town bordom seems to set in around my town, the cops will hassle anybody they see on a slow crime day.
The bigest problem is the law......a cop HAS to enforce the law, his/her opinion about the law is irrelavent.
The people have the power to change things............unfortionaly I think most have forgotten how to exercise their power.

the police enforce laws... it isn't their job to interpret or create them, just enforce them. PERIOD.

Police do it because mostly for a very simple reason. It is their job! We the people have asked them to do it, and granted them the required authority to do so. We society should also be responsible for setting limits on the authority granted.

As a person who has had two jobs where I was in a position to ask people to change their behaviour, I can tell you that for me it was just a job. My job was partly to try and keep people from hurting themselves by doing unsafe actions, and then assisting them if they did it anyways. That is all I ever tried to do. No power trip, no "I am superior" attitude etc. Just a job.

There are people with ego issues in every position. Many other positions besides police come with certain authority to control others. People with ego problems in any of these positions can cause problems.

I think it's an individual thing, not a general thing.

It's not the "police" that tell you that you can't do something...it's <b>me</b>...and every other citizen out there. <b>We</b> have decided what is acceptable and unacceptable to us, to the point that we have made some actions (say it with me, now) <i>illegal</i>. Illegal to the point that we pay a certain segment of our population a paltry amount of compensation to ensure that the rules that we have laid out are obeyed. These people are no better than you or I, except that they have offered to lay their lives on the line, if need be, to protect those that least appreciate what they really do.

It's not just cops if you really think about it, you most likely have assholes at your work that act in the same manner........hell maybe in your own families, I know I do.

There are good cops and bad. Some have egos and once they put on the badge and gun that ego justs kicks up a notch or two.

Most of us do not like law enforcement especially when we are breaking the law.

There is not one thing you can do regarding asshole cops, and if they are bad cops eventually it will catch up to them.

These people put THEIR LIVES on the line for a small amount of compensation to police a part of a society that wishes to do you and others harm.

Think about how they must feel when they leave for their duties each day or night and say goodbye to their wife and children knowing that this may be their last goodbye:(

If a cop pissed in your Cheerios and it upset you the only thing you should be asking yourself is what role did you play??

Sounds to me like the question here is, why do cops get to bully me around? Since I have somewhat the same training, why would their rules apply to me? Shouldn't I be above this or at least at their level?

The thing is, a cop is a cop. When he starts his day, he becomes a representative of the law-enforcement system, so yes, that's basically why he's better than you. Because he isn't just a civilian in that sense. For the time he is working, he becomes more than that. He is given by the system the power and right to intervene and separate people, to give fines & to arrest people that would publicly mock him, and therefor, the system that gave him his rights/power.

So where's he get his superiority as you put it? From the fact that he represents the law-enforcement in contact with the average joe. Why does this law-enforcement have the power to do that? Because there are people that work on the model of society, and try to keep it civil and up-to-date. So they use laws (whether this is the best thing to do, is another matter) to guide society. And they need people to enforce the laws, because if there are no consequences to breaking their laws, the laws are pointless.

So Lurkette had it right, society gives it the power they have. If you don't like it, know you will still be judged by the laws and morals of the society. So you have to fit in. The only other solution is to move out of society to some remote location and set your own laws there.

You can always join the force for a couple of years and experience first hand too. That might shed some light on it.

Try to look at this from other angles too. If you were robbed, or someone close to you was the victim of crime, would you call the police?

If you have the conviction that the system the police supports is so incorrect and unfair, then surely you cannot use that system for your ends? Therefore if someone acted in a "criminal" way towards you, as defind by our system of justice, your only solution is to suck it up, or, retaliate directly?

Begin to see any problems with this type of society? Yes, a small percentage of those in power may be corrupt, however, I am not convinced that a system without rules, where each individual can act as they wish, would be such a paradise......

Everyone else stated it well, but here is something else to remember:

A cop doesn't usually deal with "Joe Average", he/she usually deals with rapists, drunks, wife/husband beaters, etc. etc. ad naseum.

Or as one cop put it to me, they get jaded because they deal with scum all day long.

So you might remember that the next time one seems to have an attitude.

If I may add something as well to this post. Every citizen has the right and, some may say, obligation, to uphold those laws ourselves. A citizen's arrest is just as binding as a police arrest, though many citizens may find it somewhat laughable at the concept of a citizen's arrest. Citizens who get involved often detain criminals before the police can respond. How often do we hear stories of ordinary citizens who prevented a criminal's escape? As you've said, it's <b>us</b> who have decided what's acceptable.

Not really, citizens arrest, well in Canada anyway, only works when you eather see the person commit a serious crime, or see someone steal your things. Other than that a citizens arrest doesn't do much.
So, basicly what everyone is saying, is that we make the laws, then the police enforce them because we ask them, becuase we train and hire then. Some of there money comes from us, well it all does but only some if it through taxes, the rest through fines. Personally I didnt ask any officer to tell me what to do, I pay as little taxes as I can just like anyone else and try to avoid fines. Sounds to me like most people so far have deciede that humans are basicly bad, that most people will hurt others as much as they can, that most people will run wild without law. That may be I guess but its hard for me to assume that everyone is intrinsically bad deep down inside. I think thats what makes me an anarchist more than any other reason really. I follow the laws alot more than many of the non-anarchist people I know becuase I think that deep down I'm basicly a good person and that most law's are good ones. It's sounds like such a shock when people say "I'm going to follow what laws I want and not the others that I want" becuase all our lives we've heard that from various sources and each time it's put down and the message "You can't just pick and choose what you want to follow" is slammed home as the right one. I don't think it is, I don't pretend to know what sort of political system we should be useing but for me democrocy just isn't working. I mean, in essence, we are supposed to be making the rules, I'm nineteen, been voting age for two years, and the laws are the same and will for a long time, the system is so slow, and all encompassing, that when a law stops fully applying to one citizen in a domocratic society that that law can't be changed. One citizen doesn't sound that bad, but it builds up and up untill thier are a number of laws that don't apply to a number of people. I didn't ask the police to police myself, other people have asked them to, becuase they have deicied that I am intrinsitcally bad and need someone with a gun to make sure that I dont hurt them.
p.s. I wonder what baaa said.

I was formulating my thoughts as I was reading down through the posts when I came across lurkette's words and realized that what she was saying was exactly what I was thinking. Just, in a more succinct and better worded format. Thanks babe :)

your anarchy views cloud your mind. they are here to make sure the law is enforced.have you been chased off some public place riding your skatboard to many times?remember 911, do you want that on a daily basics? edited for rude comment

I think that cops are meant to have their behavior, mission, and operations completely defined for them. They should be nothing more then executors of the law. They are not better then you. Once they take off that uniform and cease executing the law they have no power. (Ignoring the responsiblities they have as off duty officers) This law is meant to be defined democratically, and as part of the social contract each person is expected to accept the law. If you don't like it ;-) go live in various African nations. You can live without law there, and also the many other amenities that civilization provides.

The reality of the situation is not perfect of course. Nothing is. But all things considered they do an ok job.

I for one would like to know exactly what it is you want to do that puts you in such direct conflict with the police? Lets forget about the whole drugs issue for one moment, outside of that, what exactly do you want the freedom to do?

Authority and I have never gotten along. Ever. It’s not that I’m bad, its just that I have a severe problem with control freaks. I see my friend ynt’s point.

I also see a heavy burden for them, too. I can’t imagine how heavy their uniform gets at times.

They are not better than I. just because one person’s rank is higher does not mean they are better than you as a person. They have proven themselves to be able to hold the peace and, as much as I hate it, I know they do what they do in my best interest.

Bad cops are by far the lowest scum on the earth. Worse than a rapest because they are silently applauding people who do such things. There are a l o t of dirty cops, man. I hope they all die soon. But it’s impossible to rid the world of rats…. Too many of the fuckers.

But what we can do is pay attention and be involved. If a cop is an asshole, report him and your reasoning. Most people will not. They say it will do no good.

I say if you don’t try, don’t bitch (not anyone in particular, just in general). If hundreds report him someone’s going to act some time.

Its like a fuckwit security guard that use to ride my ass for driving fast. I finally had it mentioned to another guard. He changed his tune quick. It is easy, it is in many people’s eyes childish. I think to take it and not speak out is childish.

Also remember the good cops are kind of fucked. Like me being a Christian. Everyone knows my faith is corrupted beyond reasoning; it makes it very difficult for us who follow him truly.

Don’t give up, be loud and be coherent. Our voices are not mute.



oh yeah: 'it's their job' has got to be the single biggest American crutch ever.

They arent better than you. Its their fucking job. Quit whining, their job is enfore the current laws. You broke one, they caught you. Get over it. Some of them are dicks, some arent. Just the other night I got busted for breaking curfew. I didnt give him shit, he let me off. I have a problem with authority too, trust me, Ive nearly been suspended from school because of mouthing off to teachers. But when I got to the principal, I just bit my togue and acted respectful. Know who to fuck with, and you can get away with it. Know where the line is and you cant get caught. But know, dont blow past it. And dont be mad at cops for doing their job......

even the traffic cops have to just put up with assholes all day. everyone wants the police to be there to protect/help them, but as soon as you get pulled over for speeding, how dare he!!! you were just trying to go home, going with the flow of traffic (at 15 over the speed limit), you were doing nothing wrong! why's he hassling you? and a good, nice guy that that cop could be immediatly becomes an asshole on a powertrip because he pulled YOU over. even if he really isn't.


1) by continuing to live in the society you do, you are de facto telling them to do their job. if you don't like it, get out.

2) humans are basically bad. not evil or anything, but we will put ourselves and our families before others every time when we are put to the choice. if there were no laws and police, a man would steal bread and other necessities from someone else in order to feed himself and his family even if it meant letting that other person starve.
3) as far as i know, anarchy has nothing to do with believing in the good/bad nature of humans. it's belief that govt. is bad in all forms and people should basically live by the laws of nature.

This was an intersting thread. I have a cop in my family, I have spent may hours talking with my brother in law. I can tell you that they are just doing a job, a job that has rules and procedures. When you are pulled over, the cop pulling you over has no idea who you are, so they approach you thinking that you could be the guy who makes it so they dont come home for dinner, ever. It was mentioned earlier that most cops never deal with "Joe Average" most of the people they deal with are not so nice. My brother in law has taken a bullet in the chest, he was wearing a vest and he is okay today. He has seen two fellow officers killed in the last 18 months. He has three kids and makes around 45k a year. Now I ask you, could we give the cops out there a break? Sure there are some bad apples, but most of the cops out there do it for the love of the country.

Are they better than any of us? No, and if you ask most of them, they will tell you that. They just have to be more careful than the rest of us. I hope that helps you (YourNeverThere)

rude comments edited out: Knock it off, People!

Anyway, I pritty sure we all know that cops are here to enforce the law, we're not stupid, I mean that's like saying "KFC workers are here to make chicken!" Way to state the obvious. Now, of course I dont want an other 911, think of why it happened though, Becuase of the American government putting that country down. I don't know enough about the actual reasons why the terrorist hate the USA, and for this thread it irrelivant, becuase if there were no countrys there would be no terrorists, plain and simple. So, if an anarchist world could exsit, then there would have been no 9-11. On a side note it takes thinking about 9-11 and how that would have worked out in an anarchist world for about 3 seconds to figure out, the quote the Simpsons "are you dumber than a monkey?"
To adress "have you been chased off some public place riding your skatboard to many times?" No, I don't skateboard much anymore. Like I said, I do follow most rules, not becuase I have to but becuase I want to, some might think that it doesn't make a difference but it does to me.
When I get pulled over its not becuase I'm speeding, thats why I don't get tickets, it's becuase I have a mohawk and lip and eyebrow peirceing and becuase my music is loud, becuase of looks, and it's painfully obvious.
When someone orders you to do something, they think that they are better than you, or else they wouldn't order you to do something, a cop says "Move along, your not aloud to stand there anymore" he/she means "I say that you have to move, I'm right, You're wrong, My opinion means more, what I say means more" Also, call it whining if you want, it's more than that for me, I have broke laws, I have been cought, that has nothing to do with this thread, good try though.

Once again, WhoaitsZ your completly right, it is a crutch becuase the public says "It's just thier job" p.s. your my favorite.

... not to mention if it weren't for us 'anarchists' a lot of people who are good at scaring people would be jobless.

if i am seen with a gun i expect to me stopped.

if i'm simply parked i expect to be fucking left alone.

one thing i think would help is to help the cops out, too.

they get shit pay and we wonder why we get so many bad seeds

low pay + bullies + authority = citizens at extreeme risk.

Just my two cents....

I think that cops in general are jerks. 80 percent of them that I have ever been involved with are jerks. Call it what you want and say what you want, but it is the truth. That is my perception and my perception is my reality.

It all has to do with how they treat people. They harrass, they pick on, and they "enforce" their authority just because they can. Ever tried to fight a ticket in court? It is absolutely a no-win situation. It is your word against theirs and their word is always better.

What I find among cop "supporters" is a blind loyalty to these people. Either someone in their family is a cop or someone they know works on the force. It is so rough or tough to do this job. It is thankless, it is heroic. Say what you want. My feelings are that they probably didn't have the skills to get a better job so they are stuck with the profession.

I know I sound jaded, but right now, I park my car in the garage so it wont be stolen. I lock my doors and set my alarm at night. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood but the house across the street got broken into last week. My house had an attempted break in about 2 years ago. And what do cops focus on? Speeding in the neighborhood. Fuck you! Work on making me feel safer!

Cops are there to support the public good. For whatever reason, they like to focus 90% of their time on traffic enforcement (so they can bring in revenue) and the rest on "protecting" us. How about 90% on protecting us and the rest on traffic issues?

I've seen cops turn on their lights to make it though a light. I've seen them speed down roads just fucking around. I got pulled over the other day for 68 in a 65. Hmmmm is that the worst crime out there?

Ahh I could go on for ages. Cops piss me off and I will never respect them until they earn some respect. I'm not a murdered, so dont treat me like one.

you better edit alittle better because you fucked up too.didnt know there was goin to be a grade on spelling. the reason i dislike people like you is because i have 2 sons that go on duty everyday having to fuck with people that have no regard for humans are the laws that we the people want. just like i said you want anarchy but i bet you would scream like a bitch when one of your own commits a crime against you in a lawless world

First, I want to tell you all to calm down. I know this can be a heated discussion, but there's no need to attack each other and swear at each other.


Well, I've never gotten a ticket because I drive safely (not necessarily legally) and the cops don't care as long as I'm not a danger to people. I've known people who successfully fought tickets in court. They "enforce" their authority because it's their job, not because they can.

Quote:

I've seen cops turn on their lights to make it though a light. I've seen them speed down roads just fucking around.

I have a scanner, and I would think the same that you do, but every time I've seen them run lights, they were in pursuit of suspects, and would lose track of them and probably not find them if they stopped. Same goes for "just fucking around." They might bethe nearest unit to be able to respond to a situation. Maybe you should try getting a scanner and seeing if they're really fucking around, or if they're rushing to a home where a kid called 911 because his father is beating his mother and the officers don't want to give him time to hide evidence, or if they're trying to make it to make it down a clear road where sirens would cause more problems than they solve and get to the grocery store with the defibrilator in the back of his car because an old woman just had a heart attack and the difference between getting there in three minutes or two can be a life-or-death situation. Maybe that woman is your mother or grandmother; I doubt you'd be pissed at a cop for speeding past you at twice the speed limit if he saved her life.

Hey man, I just said that I put a little effort into my posts thats all.
Anyway I'm glad that you have sons that are cops and I hope your proud. Remeber that I didnt ask your sons to be cops and I was merely pointing out that they must have a certain amount of ego to order people around. Now, in this thread, assuming that you read it, I said that 1) DISREGARD socieopaths, people with no regard for others, the people that need real help and real support. I've never really seen a bitch scream before and am not sure really what a bitch sounds like when one screams so I can't tell you if I would scream like one or not, I think anyone with half a brain knows that petty insults really don't prove anything except my point that athority is based on might.

AGH!! The spelling it hurts! I would pull referances, but hell, I dont see the need!

Just becuase they say "You need to move" doesnt mean they are telling you becuase they want you to. Its their fucking job. It could be a loitering zone, you could look suspicious, the list is endless.

Totally agree.... they don't do what they do because they feel like it, they do it because that is what they are supposed to do.

What?

Right, so, it's there job, you are saying excatly what everyone else is saying. I can't understand that argument, anyone could get that job. What would happen if I got all the training that a cop gets, put on the uniform, buy a cop car and paint it, and go around telling people what to do?

So basicly what you are saying is that the cop, when doing the cop job, is better then the law, why is that? I still don't know, I dont understand why just wearing a uniform makes someone judgement right, or makes there orders the law.
also
Look suspicious? what the hell? why is that a reason to move? Also, name on other reason that I should move? I just used that senario as an example, but when you said that I got curious.

not anyone can get the job. people definatly wash out. as a member of society, a citizen of whatever country, you agree to abide by its rules and laws. police, as representatives, employees of said government, enforce the laws. so waht if most cops have egos? most professional athletes and celebrities have egos. are they better than you? based on your posts in this thread, i think they may be. they've all earned the ego they have (IMHO), while you haven't (as far as i know). whether you like how they work or not, whether you like the laws they enforce or not, it doesn't matter. if you don't like it, leave. it's that simple. going through the training and buying a uniform and car doesn't make you a cop. and it won't give you the rights and responsibilities of one. they are the enforcers of our laws, and that makes their judegement right and their orders the law. we give them that power as a society. it's a tough job, someone has to do it. could you? i'd have to think no. could I? hell no. many cops these days are college educated, and to get promoted to detective these days its almost necessary (or so i hear). some may do the job because they like the power, others do it for more personal reasons. some cause they want to serve and help others. you may not like them, you don't have to. but you do have to listen to them, like it or not.

Why? because I was born here? Because I reserched throughly where to be born and picked here? I think country's are stupid things in the first place, culture is what's important, not trade.


You say ego like its a good thing, ego is not not not a good thing, I don't want an ego and I try hard not to have one, to me 'earning' an ego is like earning a slap to the balls.



It doesnt? at what point excatly does one become a cop, when they first walk into the station on that first day? or is it when they first make a bust? or when?


Thanks, good thing your not the one hiring me I guess...

Since when are cops NOT college educated, I'm going to collage for my police foundations, I thought that is what everyone had to do.

Well I CAN choose where I live, I am legal age, but it's all the same. I mean if there was some utpioan(sp?) country somewhere then you can bet I would be there. But there isn't, so all one can do is try to change what we have. Personally I have no idea how to do that and am trying things out. That's why I want to take police foundations so that I can try to see what it's like from the athoritative point of view

I was just using that as an example of one of the things that a country focus's on other than culture, culture is a good thing and really is the only good thing about a country. I like Canada I guess from what I've seen, but it's not worth dying for, a statement that will put many people off I can bet. Don't get me wrong we need the military for defence of ourselves, but I won't die for a government.


This I think is where our opinions vary most I think. I'd much rather be humble, I don't think that the things I do are better than anyone else's becuase I've been wrong before and will be again, Human may be anything but one thing we do is make mistakes. Being proud of something you've done is one thing, but being proud in general is not a good thing, in fact it's a sin. Religion aside, just in my own head, I think that everyone is equal, that no one should hold authority over others.

To extend that, I think that there should be no possestions, if everyone shared everything then many many problems would be solved. Of course the first answer that comes to mind is greed, that greed with always always ruin a world like that.
But, in a world like that you would grow up in a very close community, and if you were to take more than your share you would be taking directly from someone who needs what you are takeing, and hopefully that would be enough to stop you. I think I would be, becuase the members of that community would teach the children about what is right and what is wrong, and let them choose. They probably would emluate thier parents and share.
Possestion is nine tenths of the law they say, get rid of possestions and get rid of the need for 9/10's of the law.

That was a long digression, what I was saying is that I think humbleness is more important than ego, of course I have one, everyone does, but I don't have a big one.

Alright cool, I have no idea how that works in the States, it doesn't really matter though I'll find out when I get there.


Angry? no, not really, I don't get mad very easily because I try to forgive as much as I can. Beef with society, define beef I guess, I think that there is a better way to do things, I think that todays society is spinning out of control, but I don't riot very often or hurt people , mainly I just want to do my own thing. Beef with authority figures, that I do have, I just don't like it, I never have, most of my personality probably stems from there, but again, not really in an angry way.

Why Are Cops Better Than Me?

My first answer would be to say...they are not....but I don't know you...for all I know your a scum bag.


Maybe if I knew you personally I could provide a top ten list or something...


But what do I know I am a retard. :D

I generally fall in on the side of Yourneverthere and WhoaitZ, though perhaps a bit more moderate in my approach.

For now though, I'm going to do my best to explain what I perceive to be the answer to yourneverthere's question.

The cop has the right to push you around because it is his job. He gains and looses this "right" based on if he is on the clock or off of it. The training is actually totally irrelevant (though its a prerequisite for the job, its not involved in the granting of authority) as is the car, the gun, and the badge.

He is probably "just doing his job" and many, even most people take that as a justification of what you refer to as his ego. He in fact probably doesn't have as much ego as you think he does, but is simply telling you to move because that's what they pay him to do.

The more interesting question is why is employed to tell you what to do, and where does the government get the power to grant him authority to tell you what to do.

The short and super simple answer to why people pay him to tell you what to do is that the government wants to maintain some level of control over its citizenry. In theory, and ideally it is supposed to be doing this in a form which improves the general well being of the population. Sadly as is often the case theory and practice have a tendency to deviate.

The governmental authority which is lent to the police comes primarily from two sources. The first is raw power... as in the barrel of a gun. Like it or not there is a strong element of "might makes right" inherent in the world, or perhaps more accurately "might makes in charge". The reason you cannot exercises your might to push people around is because an organization far mightier than you (the government) has effectively blackmailed you by saying "you beat anyone up, we beat you up" The officer on the other hand generally has the support of the government.

The second source of governmental authority is more subtle, but also quite potent. Public approval of the government. If the public approves, weather its because they believe the government is ordained by god, or because they think it represents their own will, they lend their strength to it. This more or less boils down to the idea that if the population approves, then the authority is granted. The population seems to grudgingly approve of the government, and by extrapolation the police. To return to your example of "ego" the cops ego when he tells you to move is essentially being temporarily inflated by the encouragement of everyone in the community who supports the government, which is a damed lot of people.

As far as not wanting to participate, see source of power one. As far as this not being fare, just, moral or good, well address all complaints to god, cause that just seems to be how things are.

Oh and on a side note, while I also am curious about what baaa said, I am happy to see moderation taking this form now. Offensive posts used to just vanish into the ether, I consider this to be a *huge* improvement. After all if your really curious you can always just pm baaa

I Agree with what you are saying, and you bring up an excellent point. As Ive said I have no idea how to change things and we can't. Well we can't quickly anyway.



Exactly, What I mean by ego and the whole why an officer is better than me etc. is the fact they it takes a certian amount of ego to become an officer. They arn't put in that job by accident and at some point they must have said "I want to be a cop" So, My question was, why can they order me around, why are they more right then me? Which you answered as well as many other people answered, becuase it's there job.


That is a very interesting question, if the power comes from the job where does the job come from?

And then you answered your own question better than I could...
I wish we could change things the least I seem to be able to do is just have this opinion myself, and see where that takes me.

Well, Ive been watching this thread, more or less from the begining.

YourNeverThere, I cant say that I think anarchy is the right path, but as it stands, the government certinly needs a major overhaul...

That aside, I can completely see where you are coming from. Forgive me, I cant seem to remember the names, but wern't there two English philosophers that represented the differant views on whether humans were innatly good or bad? Was it Locke and Hobbes?

On that note, how do you define good and bad?

Personaly, I do see a need for cops. Not everyone is bad, in fact most people are good. But there are those few real fucking dick heads that ruin it for the rest of us.

Even if we were all basicaly good, there are still things that good people can do, that would harm other good people. Thats not to say that its intentional.

After all, driving 100 mph on your way home is fine, but accidentaly making a head on crash and killng some mother of three, BECAUSE of that is not. But, you never intended to kill her, you just wanted to get where ever you were going.

In my belief the only laws that exist should be ones that distinctly prevent harm to another human being. Any law that can be justified by that is fine by me, provided it doesn not affect any of our other freedoms (ex: 2nd ammendment...).

Lastly, as far as ego goes...I dont care who has what ego, but keep it to your fucking self would you? After all, I cant stop you from having a condecending opinion about me, but I sure as hell don't need to hear about it.

yourneverthere why dont you go to your local police department and see if they have a ride along program. then you might get a better idea as to what a police officer goes through while pulling his duty shift. who knows you might even change your mind about them and find out they are just like u and i. are u judging every one of them on a whole are a particular police officer? do you think they judge you on your appearance? most of the time they will . i am fifty yrs old and have really long hair and they give me second looks too.not your typical cops dad,but my choice.
sorry for being such a ass earlier but i hear it all the time how bad cops are, and 9 out of 10 times it is out of the mouth of someone that breaks the law and gets caught and blames the arresting officer are the judge.i have a 22 yr old that likes to break the law and he thinks it is the policemen fault when he has to spend time in jail.i dont feel sorry for him i figure if he spends enough time there he will get it ,but some time you cant fix stupid.

on an aside... just out of curiosity, what does 911 have to do with this discussion? the police have existed and performed the same duties befure, during and after the event.


Back to the original question, you forget one thing. It is optional to listen to a police officer. By this i mean you have an option as per your reaction. You can listen to him, or ignore him, which may of course lead to further actions being taken against you. What im saying though is that it is not compulsory to listen to the police.

I can liken this to perhaps a doctor. Lets say that a doctor has been seeing a particular patient for a while now, and tells the patient that, in the interest of his health, either give up the booze, or give up any chance of living beyond 50. The patient has two choices, to ignore him and subsequently die before he reaches 50, or to listen to the doctor, or the experts advice and live beyond 50.


The point im trying to get across here, is that perhaps you should think of a police officer as an expert on the law, more than an enforcer. The law may be defined as socially acceptable behaviour as decided by the people (i know you'll hate this comment, but i can think of no other way of putting it).

And the laws cover everyone. No individual or group should be above the law, not even the police. For instance, lets consider the following encounter:


Two police officers are walking down the road, when they see Mr X. Now, they know that Mr X is a dodgy bastard, so they go up to him and start making small talk. Mr X responds to the small talk, but suddenly one of the officers crash tackle him and starts searching Mr X. Lo and Behold, they find a huge cache of drugs in his pockets.

The police officers, being experts in the law, know that drug carrying has been deemed illegal, so they throw Mr X into jail. Mr X however, believes that the arrest they made was illegal. So, Mr X decides to use one of the laws made to protect him, and contacts a lawyer, or another expert on the law.

The lawyer researches the relevant information, and comes to the conclusion that Mr X was in fact correct, and that its illegal to arrest someone based on searches made without warrants.

So, the lawyer knows Mr X was right, but the lawyer still has to convince two other experts of the law about this as well, namely, the judge, and the jury.

The case comes to court, and the lawyer successfully demonstrates that Mr X was illegally arrested. The judge and the jury agree with the lawyer, and the case is thrown out, and Mr X walks out scot free, even though he is guilty of another crime, because the procedures used by the police were, as it were, illegal. Chances are, the police would be reprimanded as well, for breaching the law.

Unfortunately, in many cases, the police are not better than us, and are just as restricted as us.

I'll just sum up my answer to the original question by saying that cops have authority over you because they have decided that they respect and believe in the law enough to become trained and certifed to uphold it according to standards set by the people who we have elected to make laws. They feel that it's important enough to dedicate their lives to it.

BTW, every teacher or professor who I have asked has replied that the concept of a citizen's arrest is entirely fictional, and that all you can do is hold a person in place until the police get there. Theoretically, you can thorw them in the back of your car, read them their miranda rights, and drag them down to the station, write and sign a statement about what you saw them doing, but the police still have to do the paperwork and official procedures, and the guy isn't going to be too happy about being thrown in the back of a car by some random person and dragged down to the station.

Yourneverthere, I would like to repeat my question which was never answered, what exactly is it that you want to do that the police will so greatly impede you?

Outside of drug use (which is a whole other topic...) I am willing to bet that the reason you would be stopped doing these things is because that they have some direct or indirect means to harm or otherwise disturb other members of society.

I invite you to prove me wrong.

i just thought of this, but when "YNT" talks about ego, i think he's talking more about the fact that police have the audacity (sp?) to actually tell people what to do. there doesn't have to be any ego involved. if someone is a cop, they could easily go up to someone and tell them to move because they're loitering or pull them over for a traffic violation and no ego has to be involved. but the fact that they are willing to do it i think is what he has the problem with. just a thought.


haha, that's great!!!

This statement is ludicrous. You are inferring that I am an unsafe driver. You have no idea what type of driver I am. Getting pulled over for 70 is a 65 is unsafe? Does the copknow I am unsafe. If you are driving 70 at the same place, how does he know to pull me over and not you? What constitues safe and unsafe? I have driven approx 600,000 miles in the 12 years I have had my license. I have never been in a wreck. Ever. Not one that was my fault or someone else's fault.

Quote:

I have a scanner, and I would think the same that you do, but every time I've seen them run lights, they were in pursuit of suspects, and would lose track of them and probably not find them if they stopped. Same goes for "just fucking around." They might bethe nearest unit to be able to respond to a situation. Maybe you should try getting a scanner and seeing if they're really fucking around, or if they're rushing to a home where a kid called 911 because his father is beating his mother and the officers don't want to give him time to hide evidence, or if they're trying to make it to make it down a clear road where sirens would cause more problems than they solve and get to the grocery store with the defibrilator in the back of his car because an old woman just had a heart attack and the difference between getting there in three minutes or two can be a life-or-death situation. Maybe that woman is your mother or grandmother; I doubt you'd be pissed at a cop for speeding past you at twice the speed limit if he saved her life.

Once again, people blindly defending the cops. You might say I am blindly bashing cops. Whatever. I am telling you I have seen cops flip their lights on for a yellow or red light, go through it, and proceed at their normal speed. You can call it what you want, but they are abusing their powers. I saw a cop tear down a gravel road in front of my grandparents house. Three times. Back and forth. It was a young kid cop who was "testing" out his vehicle. I know this for a fact because my father went out onto the road and talked to him and told him to slow down. There were kids playing there at my grandparents. Now tell me who is safe.

This is not a heated discussion for me. I am speaking my mind and telling you the reality that I see on a regular basis. End of story.

i have a question to the people who think negitively about the cops and think that they have ego's and think they're better than you. if you could mark a little box on your taxes stating that none of your tax money would go to the police, and in return you would no longer be eligible to have any assistance from them, would you? it soudns like some of you would prefer a world without police, if you could get them out of your life, would you do it?

a cop's job is to serve and protect civilians.

it is not their job to be polite, sure, but it also not their job to be assholes.

and they did choose their field. i hope they are safe and all, however, the job they are so proud to 'be just doing' is just that; a job.

if a cop can ask me to move, no problem. if he's moving a crowd for a reason, no problem. if he tells me to move for no reason and i ask why and he glares at me then fuck him.

there are lots of people who stay quiet and get pushed around. i am not one of them.

oh yes...... people have understood me well so far but i wanna be clear that I do not hate all cops.

if we had no police our society wouldn't exist. most people have lost their balls and will hide away and let themselves be bullied.

sooner or later one person will stand up... it leads to policing and that's fine.

if we wish to get rid of such authorities we have to learn how to work together.

hippies, normal folk, stoners, christians, muslims, scient - er well maybe not scientologists (kidding), white people, black people...blahblah

if most of society would get together and quit copying the ways of monkeys, we'd not need police. we'd fix it ourselves.

ps way of monkeys = get pissed and throws feces at you

by YNT
I guess I misunderstood your question, if the question is "what makes people think that they should be a cop" I'm a little less qualified to answer, but Ill take a stab in the dark anyway.

Probably some combination of three things. The balance is different for different people, but I think the first is the most common and the last is the least.

1) Dad was a cop. Its not that they think highly of themselves in particular, its that there parents indoctrinated them with the idea that growing up to be a cop would be a good thing. The morality of the issue wasn't ever really deeply considered, they just want to make their family proud.

2) They are paragons of establishment. They like and love the government for some reason. They feel that the best thing they can do for the world is lend it as much of their own "might" as possible.

3) They are drawn to power. Everyone is at some level. We all have some urge to want to be able to tell people what to do, and right what we see as wrongs. (perhaps that wrong is our own poverty, hence the whole concept of "cream") This should not be viewed all that negatively, its something that is intrinsically human

Actually it is their job to be polite. (as much is as possible, obviously they don't have to be polite while chasing you) That said I'm a student, its my job to do my homework. Doesn't mean that I do it more than about once a month. All in all I think the cops try hard and fail often. Its not exactly an easy job and sadly I see no way to raise the success percentage.

I have a few stupid ideas that I think might help like a mandatory massage and therapy session for all of the cops. Chill them fuckers out.

Is it time for a cop to jump in yet?

At least he took the precautions of using a less populated road...Ill bet he apologized to you grandfather when all was said an done as well....

mandontory (sp) counselling should be assigned free of charge to every law enforcer for at least, say, five sessions.

making one do counselling does little good. maybe after the fourth or fifth visit they will see the good in it and continue. if not, just wating time and funds.

This is important to understand.

The 'cop' is not telling you what to do, the government is telling you what to do using the cop as the agent.

Saying the 'cop' is telling you what to do implies that it is his (possibly capricious and arbitrary) will being enforced.

Understanding that it is the government telling you what to do reinforces the fundamental point that making and enforcing the rule of law is the government's sacred responsibility and reason d'etre. (sp?)

By extension, the power to do this does not come from the job, but is invested in the officer by the appropriate government entity.

This is all important to us because the Governments in Canada and the US (as well as most western govts.) are representative of the will of the people. (Which is why in a court, the cases are always stated as "The People of blah blah vs. Joe Blow" and not "The Govt. of Blah blah...")

Some cops are assholes, some are nice.

One cop lets you get off for goin 15mph on the highway after pulling you over.

Another cop on a 40mph street goes behind you (taking radar I would assume but my radar detector did not go off), I turn into a ramp to go into my school to turn left (you have to go into a seperate lane and there is a light there). The cop goes into the ramp and seeing my radar dectector, decides to turn it on to my my thing go off like crazy, then runs my plates during the light. He turns left I go straight, no harm though.

Cops aren't better than anybody... they just think they are.

I don't have a problem with cops in general. They do their job, I don't get in their way. It's the little things that make me angry, like one time when I was walking down the street with a couple friends at 10pm, some cop came by and stopped us, asked for our ID's. We gave them to him, waited, waited, waited. Two more cop cars show up. So there's three cop cars there, lights on, because of three people walking down the street who did nothing. What seemed like 20 or so minutes later, they let us go.

It just kind of makes me think. Couldn't they be out there actually doing their job? Instead of calling for backup to run a check on three 19-20 year old kids that pose no threat whatsoever? I'm honestly convinced that most police officers enter the job solely for the purpose of pushing people around. Probably because nobody respects them without their badge.

Police are empowered by the government to enforce the law. Therefor they can tell you what to do within those legal constraints. You as a citizen have every right (indeed, some would say responsibility) to give orders to someone you see breaking the law.

The difference, actually the only difference, between you and him (or her), is that the officer has the training and the mandate to back his order up with force if need be.

This is probably going to be a long post, I guess I had to sleep sometimes and now I've got a whole new page :),
Anyway.

Locke and Demosethous if I'm not mistaken, Though I don't think that that is how you spell Demosethous name.


I can agree that I see the need for cop in todays society. I also think that there are types of societies that don't need them. Right now though we do.
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I Have been on ride alongs before, not since I was younger but I have. Me and friends decieded not long ago that we should go on more. I am judgeing everyone of them on a whole, not a particular officer. I'm not saying that they are all bad, or that they are all good, but just that they all, at some level think that they are better than me, they are 'just doing thier jobs' but no one's forcing them too, they decieded to do this job themselves.
And of course they judge me on looks, it's annoying, but it doesn't really matter.

Ya don't worry it's all good, like I said, I don't get mad easily.
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Ya I guess it's optional, thing is with a docter if you don't take your medication you don't go to jail... It's optional the same way that you CAN rip your own arm off, or that you CAN wander drunkingly into the back of a van fill with fertilizer and fuel oil and get pushed over a cliff by a susicidal micky mouse.
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ya, I'm not to sure about in the States, this is what the Canadian Encylopeda says:
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I'm sorry nowthen, this turned out to be a huge thread and I read yours and said "I'll answer that" then skipped over it by accident. Anyway, I'd just like to do the things I do now but with freedom, I hate the feeling of dread that I get when I see a cop drive by even know I'm not doing anything, they menace, Aside from the drug thing there really is no specfic thing.
Thing is, when I get pulled over, as an example, I am posing no more or less of a direct or indirect thread to the society, They don't find any drugs on me, they don't give me a ticket, it's just becuase they think that they can.
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I'm not sure why the initials of my name are in quotes, but hey, I'm assuming you mean me... Have you ever told anyone to do something? ever been a camp councellor? or a father mabye? Had you not noticed that when you tell someone to do something, force your opinion on them, it's becuase you think your right? and if you think your right then you think there wrong. Your right, there wrong, your better then them. I think that that chain of logic is fairly clear, I guess i'm wrong though.

Mael are you crazy? of course I would! that would be amazing, I'd just leave them alone and they could leave me alone. I'm a fairly non-confrontational person, I don't anger people very often except on this topic, so the police have never done anything good for me directly, I'm sure they have done many good things for me indirectly, like stop a murderer that might have killed me in the future, but if I could stop them from holding authority over me I would.
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They really never question the morality of the issue? They really never questioned what they do for a living. Is that really the type of person one would want police us, someone who not only doesn't question the morality of the law there inforcing, but doesn't even question the moral of there full time job?

Thats true, I guess people can get fixedated(sp?) on the fact that they think the government needs protection, I really don't have anything usefull to add to that, thats what you meant by paragon.

I don't know if it is intrinsically human there unfortunatly is no way to prove what the basic nature of a human being is, good or bad, extending that, we can't prove if a human is basicly greedy, or basicly drawn to power, or whatever. The only way to prove that we are would be to have a child grow up alone, without any contributing factors, and even in that expiriment you wouldn't be able to find out the basic nature of humans becuase that poor child would probably die.
It's the old nature vs. nurture debate, thats what anarchy boils down to, could we have a society where good values are nurtured into people from birth so that in the end we don't need law, or will nature force us to be unruly, force us to distroy.
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Of course miked, where have you been this whole time! I knew there must be at least one officer on this board.
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But lebell, the cop isn't a robot, he is enforceing the rules on purpose, no one is forcing him to do anything, so, it is his will.
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I'm sorry if I missed anyone.

I definatly agree, dude, except:


My problem is mainly the rude fuckers. I'd never shoot a messenger. . . unless the messenger is being an asshole. if someone has to tell me something, tell me. if i ask is something wrong or what's going on, just give me a quick polite, stern answer.

i will coperate cuz i've no idea what could be going on. but I'm not just taking orders.

look.... i can't speak for other people... but for me, it's not being told to do something for our best interest or what not..... no problem

i just don't a guy chiding me as if I did something wrong, especially since i've extreemly fuckin' peaceful.

speak up cops. i don't hate you. i hate some of the macho attitudes.

um. don't most cops hold odd loyalties? this could be like bullshit hollywood idea.:)

but anyhow. you gets cops.. you're one. if you are a few, you will most likely havey our story turned upside down.

cops are armed.

there is a huge difference, man.

OH, Z,

I definitely agree with what you are saying, there are rude cops, just like there are rude receptionists, rude waiters, rude yada yada yada.

And certainly the badge and gun attract a macho/bully type more than other professions. But police forces try to cull these types out (as opposed to those who are bad-ass when they need to be.)

It's in their best interest to do so.

Then there are some cops (usually the younger, less experienced ones) who haven't learned yet how to read situations, be alert and yet respectful at the same time. (These are usually the 25 yr olds who call guy's in their 40's "son" when they pull them over in a traffic stop...)

YNT,

No,

His will might be, "I really hate Chevy's/Fords, so I'm only going to pull them over today..."

In otherwords, a cop doing his duty doesn't pull the rules out of thin air. It is the rules, i.e. will, of the people he/she is enforcing.

My point is that they are usually just regular guys in a tough job usually dealing with rough people, so to paint them with such a broad brush is unfair.

Anyone with a little power gets somewhat of an attitude.

Comes with the territory.

I don't understand the first two paragraphs, as as for the last two, that is the mandate I was speaking about.

blerg. i admit i did a shit job there.

i meant.......

if I were a cop and I had other cops with me or nearbye.... and you are the citizen with a complaint.

do you honestly believe the civilian's views will be heard as equally as mine? especially with other cops?

I agree with you there, and I am engaged to a cop.

I constantly give her shit about the same issue, cops walk on water as far as simple stuff goes. Of course if a citizen sees a cop speeding they can call the supervisor and the cop will have to spend hours going over their video tape to justify the incident, or be written up.

I have mixed feelings. On one hand they have the shittiest job in the world, everyone lies to you, it's dangerous, and the pay is shit, so it is natural for them to band together. On the other hand the law is the law.

Oh, well. As someone above said, they are human, and prone to human failings...

All the cops where I live speed all the time, and it kind of bugs me because I got pulled over once for speeding, and it wasn't even that much over the speed limit (5MPH over the speed limit). It is a double standard, of course, but oh well. That's all I have to say in this matter :)