What the world thinks of the USA - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

splck · 06-18-2003, 05:10 AM

I thought this might add a bit of perspective to members as too what people from other countries think of the US.

Participating countries:
Australia, Brazil, Canada, France, Indonesia, Israel, Jordan, Korea, Russia, United Kingdom, United States.

Here are a couple of results:

Quote:

4 out of 5
Proportion of overall respondents who said they would not like to live in the United States if given the chance.

3 out of 4
Proportion of American respondents who said they would not like to go live outside the U.S. if they had the chance. An overwhelming majority of American respondents (96 per cent) said people outside the U.S. want to come and live there.

Check out the poll, it's quite interesting.
Overall poll results - http://www.cbc.ca/news/america/toplineresults.ppt
Referring web site - http://www.cbc.ca/news/america/poll.html

Daval · 06-18-2003, 05:54 AM

Great Survey

Liquor Dealer · 06-18-2003, 06:25 AM

It's interesting! Of course we knew beforehand that Canadians don't like us. Makes no difference how it is worded and reworded - Canadians don't like us. I really wish there were someway that for a while the US didn't exist. I would like to see Canada butted up against Mexico for a while with no US present. It would be interesting to see if they still had these feelings. If the French don't like us at this point it would be totally inane for them to admit it because it's quite obvious that few Americans really care if France exists at this point. Noticed that people seem to like our music, movies, and television - but didn't like American websites? Sure seems to be a bunch that have little but hate toward America that hang out on this one quite frequently.

geep · 06-18-2003, 06:28 AM

Obviously a case of penis envy.

Prophecy · 06-18-2003, 06:42 AM

*shrugs* Its been said before, we aren't liked world wide, big deal. We'll see who the other countries ask for help when they need it.

Charlatan · 06-18-2003, 07:04 AM

Touchy, touchy...

Look at the survey. Canada is 65 in favour of the US (compared to 88 of Americans in favour of the USA and -43 Brazilians).

I would say that most Canadians who have issues with the US are specifically concerned with the administration and with the general attitude of US (i.e. arrogance implied or infered).

The_Dude · 06-18-2003, 07:19 AM

i do agree that the US is very arrogant and takes canada for granted in a lot of ways.

Liquor Dealer · 06-18-2003, 07:44 AM

And like I tried to point out above - I really wish we could remove the US from the picture - just slide Canada down and Mexico up until the twain shall meet. Let both of them live with this for a year and retake your poll.

geep · 06-18-2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
i do agree that the US is very arrogant and takes canada for granted in a lot of ways.

Ditto for the Canadians. Brothers fight sometimes, it's all part of growing up.

tinfoil · 06-18-2003, 09:14 AM

As a Canuck, I have no real problem with the US. Sure, there is an impression of uneducated ignorance in regards to Americans that is shared by many Canadians, but in my opinion many of those Canadians are no more educated or less arrogant than the very people they disparage.

Geep, great point.

Scipio · 06-18-2003, 09:27 AM

The Pew Research Center's report on world opinions is much more extensive.

I'd also like to point out that it's not so much the case that other countries need us so much as we need other countries. We're almost totally dependant on foreign oil. Our market system and large corporations depend on foreign labor markets to cut costs and compete.

In the foreign policy and military policy areas, it's evident that we need help. As good as our military is, and it's damn good, it's streched pretty thin. Through the 90s, our pilots were subjected to endless bombing campaigns, with very few breaks. Now, with all the military actions that are ongoing, many reservists have been called up indefinitely. We currently have well more than 2 army divisions committed to Iraq, and it's still not enough. In Afghanistan, we're quietly negotiating with the Taliban (remember them? we "ended" their rule over there.)

Opinion does matter. Countries with hostile populations are a threat to the US, and Bush administration policies do nothing to deal with these root causes.

I'm not worried about Canada. There's still some popular outrage about the war, and if you check back to polls from a few years ago, I'm guessing that they like us more. And LD, perhaps the fact that we're their biggest trading partner and cultural ally is more important to them than our keeping the Mexicans out.

Liquor Dealer · 06-18-2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
I'm not worried about Canada. There's still some popular outrage about the war, and if you check back to polls from a few years ago, I'm guessing that they like us more. And LD, perhaps the fact that we're their biggest trading partner and cultural ally is more important to them than our keeping the Mexicans out.

I wasn't speaking of keeping the Mexicans out- had nothing to do with borders - I merely said I would like them to live without us being here - let them take care of all the things they don't have to worry about because of their arrogant, obnoxious, bullying neighbors to the south. Apply the same to Mexico -

Ask yourself - like them or not - having the strongest nation in the world for a neighbor gives both of them a ton of advantage.

Scipio · 06-18-2003, 09:58 AM

Sorry to take you out of context like that. It sounded kinda bad the way you put it the first time, so I just went with it.

The Bolshevist · 06-18-2003, 01:12 PM

Scipio - well said.

As a Canadian, I understand the common way we treat the Americans; love their choices and standard of living, but are envious at the same time. I myself have met many 'Yanks' and have one as my best friend, and I don't know of a person more knowledgeable in a lot of areas than her. Not only that, but her understanding of the US political system is staggering. Certainly we disagree on some things (zed vs. zee, for example), but than again, don't good friends have their tiffs from time to time? We didn't go to Iraq, but we did go to Afghanistan (skipping over the friendly fire incident...) and it is true; many of us disagree with the current US administration. Doesn't mean we don't like or hate the US; we just don't like the gov't. As for the stat that 4 out of 5 people wouldn't want to live in the US, given the chance...well, sometimes home is where the heart is. Every nation is the world's best country, from a certain point of view.

Liquor Dealer - Hee hee!!! Hmm...no US between Canada and Mexico. Does that mean physically (a giant coastline along the 49th parallel) or simply no Americans. I doubt we would have many problems...the Mexicans can get California, we can get Florida and we'll swap Texas every second weekend!!

Easytiger · 06-18-2003, 03:11 PM

Liquor Dealer- do you really think that there's no-one else who would take the US's role if she magically disappeared tomorrow?

I will play devil's advocate by saying that whoever felt like colonising a very large, resource-rich empty country with a stable climate might have an economic advantage of some kind over other nations.

Of course there would be chaos in the short term. That is undeniable. The status quo of the world would change. No doubt. But there WAS a world before America existed, and that world would survive without America. It would be very different, but it would still be there.

Oh, and the idea of Canada and Mexico fighting over the spoils is a classic. I have images of sombrero-clad armies facing off against Mounties.

The_Dude · 06-18-2003, 03:29 PM

i think EU, once it gets powerful, will become a real strong opposition to the US (mainly economically)

james t kirk · 06-18-2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
It's interesting! Of course we knew beforehand that Canadians don't like us. Makes no difference how it is worded and reworded - Canadians don't like us. I really wish there were someway that for a while the US didn't exist. I would like to see Canada butted up against Mexico for a while with no US present. It would be interesting to see if they still had these feelings. If the French don't like us at this point it would be totally inane for them to admit it because it's quite obvious that few Americans really care if France exists at this point. Noticed that people seem to like our music, movies, and television - but didn't like American websites? Sure seems to be a bunch that have little but hate toward America that hang out on this one quite frequently.

Lighten up there LD.

I like americans just fine. In fact, i have spent the better part of the last month amoungst you infidels. First NYC, and as of right this minute, Michigan.

Other than i miss the women in Toronto, and the better quality food, the US is just fine.

Don't take the fact that i have no desire in the world to live permanently in the US as an insult, it's not. It's just l like Canada better. That's the thing i have noticed about Americans is that they think everyone wants to be them, but we don't.

As far as it goes, what other country in the world would you rather have as your neighbour than Canada??? And don't say Britain because of that 3 week war because let me tell you that Canadians will be far friendly towards you than the vast majority of Brits.

American movies run the gammet of shit to great, american music is mostly shit, other than Dave Matthews (who's actually South African) and the Eagles, and R.E.M, and Nirvana, ok, i like Pearl Jam too.

But U2 are the best, and they are Irish, followed by the Beatles, the Stones, the Who, the Clash, Bowie, and we all know they aren't from the US.

Tell you what, you come up to Toronto for a weekend sometime and i will show you the wonderful sights - especially the strip joints, and massage parlours. Now that's culture boy.

As long as you don't go walking down Queen Street singing out loud America the Beautiful with pictures of George Bush tatooed to your ass, no-one will give you any grief in Toronto.

sykosystem · 06-18-2003, 07:11 PM

There was a recent BBC poll as well with some crazy findings (could it be the same one)- summary at http://www.catalyzerjournal.com/cnew...pTHnJAxgK.html , their big thingy at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2994924.stm
57% had a very unfavorable/fairly unfavorable attitude to US

Scipio · 06-18-2003, 10:01 PM

I'm gonna stick up for LD here. All he was saying is, we do way more good than harm, and Canada (and lots of other countries) benefit because we're here.

Still, we have to resist the tendency to think that the world is out to get us. All this Europeans hate us, Koreans hate us, Arabs hate us, terrorists hate us, and don't even get me started on the French, but it doesn't get us anywhere. There is a lot of envy of our wealth, and when they don't see us helping them as much as they think we could, there's resentment too. I'm of the view that if we take care of the international community (I don't mean bailing out poor countries, merely encouraging democracy and free markets), it will take care of us.

seretogis · 06-18-2003, 11:56 PM

Flimsy polls like this are pretty useless, especially when it comes to policy-related decisions. What a sample of a population "feels" about us is really irrelevant in the long-run.

Edit: I would say the same thing, regardless of the outcome of the poll.

Meridae'n · 06-19-2003, 01:41 AM

I'd say that I would probably not like to live in the US. My reason? It's not home. This is obviously a conclusion reached without ever setting foot on US soil, therefore it's pretty useless.

Most of what we see of America is spoonfed to us from CNN, Michael Moore, and Stephen Speilberg... and to be honest, it doesn't look good from this angle.

I'd like to sample before putting my opinion on this in ink...

Ratman · 06-19-2003, 06:43 AM

I think that alot of the reason that foreigners dislike Americans has to do with the way many Americans comport themselves when abroad. Living abroad, I see many of my countrymen bitch and complain that the locals are "so fucking stupid" or some such because A. The locals don't speak much English, B. The locals aren't friendly to asshats that believe you can increase communication simply by talking louder and slower- in English, and C. They are not afforded the same constitutional rights abroad as they are at home.

I have found that many of the people here love American THINGS, like movies, music, clothes, etc. They just don't care for Americans.

By the way, this is a generalization of my experience of two years living abroad. It is not a condemnation of my country, or an invitation for flames. I am an American, and I vote in every election (absentee). I am not more specific about my location because I know that I am NOT in America, and it doesn't matter a bit to the gendarmes here what what is legal in the US (some of the forum contents is not).

geep · 06-19-2003, 07:02 AM

It's kind of funny that people seem to dislike Americans. I wonder if it really matters. It seems to me if they dislike us so, doesn't that make them more like what they think we are? Arrogance can be catchy. I've always stuck to this belief: If you look at someone you've never met and see something other than a potential friend, you are the one with a problem, not them.

splck · 06-19-2003, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geep
It's kind of funny that people seem to dislike Americans. I wonder if it really matters. It seems to me if they dislike us so, doesn't that make them more like what they think we are? Arrogance can be catchy.

This survey was more about what people thought of your country and it's government rather than the actual people. I think it does matter what foreigners think of your country be it good or bad. I'm not suggesting that foreigners run your foreign policy, but acknowledging the way they think might help in the long run.

Quote:

I've always stuck to this belief: If you look at someone you've never met and see something other than a potential friend, you are the one with a problem, not them.

Good words to live by

archer2371 · 06-19-2003, 08:04 PM

Canada, it's like that loft apartment over that great party.
~Robin Williams

I mean, this is kind of ridiculous, I mean, when you have people in your own country that can't stand the government here, why bother to go out and poll Europeans, or Koreans, or Canadians, etc. to find out what they feel. Everyone will have an opinion because they are entitled to it (at least in the countries that took part in the poll.) Do I think we have the best type of government available on this Earth? Yes, do I think it is the best thing since the Pam and Tommy Lee tapes... er,.... I mean sliced bread? Hell no. Our government has it's misgivings, but that's because it's a system set up by man, and man is not perfect, he errs, and things he creates will err. I am a supporter of Bush, I think he could have waited just a little bit longer and gotten more international support, but I still respect the man. Not everyone in those countries polled will want to come to America because they already have a good deal of freedom much like the United States. Yet we still have Cubans who would rather swim all the way to our shores than get on a boat, get a warm blanket and soup, and then be shipped right back to Cuba. I mean, that's what I think people are referring to when they say a lot of foreigners want to come here. They are talking about their tired and huddled masses, that wish for an opportunity that would be a hell of a lot better than what they are experiencing in their own little oppressed nation. If I were born Scottish (which I sometimes wish I was) I don't think I'd like to leave permanently, because I have my family and friends all around me, sure I'd take trips, but I'd probably stay on the British Isles. Sometimes I wish that I had a president that was as eloquent as Tony Blair, but then I think, ya know, I think that I would rather have a POTUS who could explain stuff to the common man better than he could to intellectuals. But that's just my two cents worth, and I hope you guys get something out of it.

Liquor Dealer · 06-20-2003, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by archer2371
Canada, it's like that loft apartment over that great party.
~Robin Williams

I mean, this is kind of ridiculous, I mean, when you have people in your own country that can't stand the government here, why bother to go out and poll Europeans, or Koreans, or Canadians, etc. to find out what they feel. Everyone will have an opinion because they are entitled to it (at least in the countries that took part in the poll.) Do I think we have the best type of government available on this Earth? Yes, do I think it is the best thing since the Pam and Tommy Lee tapes... er,.... I mean sliced bread? Hell no. Our government has it's misgivings, but that's because it's a system set up by man, and man is not perfect, he errs, and things he creates will err. I am a supporter of Bush, I think he could have waited just a little bit longer and gotten more international support, but I still respect the man. Not everyone in those countries polled will want to come to America because they already have a good deal of freedom much like the United States. Yet we still have Cubans who would rather swim all the way to our shores than get on a boat, get a warm blanket and soup, and then be shipped right back to Cuba. I mean, that's what I think people are referring to when they say a lot of foreigners want to come here. They are talking about their tired and huddled masses, that wish for an opportunity that would be a hell of a lot better than what they are experiencing in their own little oppressed nation. If I were born Scottish (which I sometimes wish I was) I don't think I'd like to leave permanently, because I have my family and friends all around me, sure I'd take trips, but I'd probably stay on the British Isles. Sometimes I wish that I had a president that was as eloquent as Tony Blair, but then I think, ya know, I think that I would rather have a POTUS who could explain stuff to the common man better than he could to intellectuals. But that's just my two cents worth, and I hope you guys get something out of it.

Very well said! When one realizes that the ideas for our government were first put on paper over two hundred years ago by men most of the world would now call total radicals and that this government has evolved into what it has become is awesome. Some of what it has become has been good - some not so good, but it has bent and swayed - adapted, to the ideas of the day. It may not be perfect but it beats the hell outa' whatever comes in second!

Bill O'Rights · 06-20-2003, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ratman
I think that alot of the reason that foreigners dislike Americans has to do with the way many Americans comport themselves when abroad. Living abroad, I see many of my countrymen bitch and complain that the locals are "so fucking stupid" or some such because A. The locals don't speak much English, B. The locals aren't friendly to asshats that believe you can increase communication simply by talking louder and slower- in English, and C. They are not afforded the same constitutional rights abroad as they are at home.

Hmmm...my wife, who has travelled extensively, has said the EXACT same thing. Do I even have to wonder how we would react to foreigners behaving in the U.S. the way that we behave in thier countries? Nice ambasadors.

Bill O'Rights · 06-20-2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by archer2371
Canada, it's like that loft apartment over that great party.
~Robin Williams

I mean, this is kind of ridiculous, I mean, when you have people in your own country that can't stand the government here, why bother to go out and poll Europeans, or Koreans, or Canadians, etc. to find out what they feel. Everyone will have an opinion because they are entitled to it (at least in the countries that took part in the poll.) Do I think we have the best type of government available on this Earth? Yes, do I think it is the best thing since the Pam and Tommy Lee tapes... er,.... I mean sliced bread? Hell no. Our government has it's misgivings, but that's because it's a system set up by man, and man is not perfect, he errs, and things he creates will err. I am a supporter of Bush, I think he could have waited just a little bit longer and gotten more international support, but I still respect the man. Not everyone in those countries polled will want to come to America because they already have a good deal of freedom much like the United States. Yet we still have Cubans who would rather swim all the way to our shores than get on a boat, get a warm blanket and soup, and then be shipped right back to Cuba. I mean, that's what I think people are referring to when they say a lot of foreigners want to come here. They are talking about their tired and huddled masses, that wish for an opportunity that would be a hell of a lot better than what they are experiencing in their own little oppressed nation. If I were born Scottish (which I sometimes wish I was) I don't think I'd like to leave permanently, because I have my family and friends all around me, sure I'd take trips, but I'd probably stay on the British Isles. Sometimes I wish that I had a president that was as eloquent as Tony Blair, but then I think, ya know, I think that I would rather have a POTUS who could explain stuff to the common man better than he could to intellectuals. But that's just my two cents worth, and I hope you guys get something out of it.

Well said, archer2371, very well said. Although I am not a supporter of the Bush administration, George does posess qualities that I can admire in a leader. This country is perfect by no means, but it is my home, and that makes it the best to me. I don't have a problem with Canadians, Australians, Frenchmen, Germans, hell even Iraqis or Iranians. I have a problem with individual people.

magic_hat · 06-25-2003, 10:14 PM

many foreigners love this country for one thing...money. take an el salvadorian dishwasher....comes here and makes more money than he would in his native land and sends money back to support his family...i meet a lot of these guys who dont want to bring their whole family here....not becuase they cant afford it but because they dont like the way we are.

XenuHubbard · 06-26-2003, 10:01 PM

Heh, I just spoke to a coffee-shop owner here in Taipei. She lived in the US for two years, but went back to Taiwan.
She said most Asian immigrants were Koreans.
That seemed to be the main reason she left again.

But this poll once again shows how paranoid the US has become.
That I don't want to live in the US doesn't mean I hate the US.
In a Newsweek poll, 75% of the the US population doesn't want to even TRAVEL abroad. Does this mean that the US hates the World? Nope. Most people want to stay where they grew up. It's natural.

As for the "penis envy" - wouldn't a true case of jealousy mean EVERYBODY wanted to move to the US?

Nyenrodian · 07-01-2003, 05:48 PM

As a European I can only tell you what Europe (in general) thinks of the U.S.A.

Mostly Europeans LIKE Americans. We just don't agree with your current government. Most of all your president. How this guy was ever elected will always be a mystery to Europeans. We consider the guy a joke. However, European governments/politicians aren't that perfect either. What to think of a person like Berlusconi?

Also some Europeans feel frustrated that the American culture has such a huge influence on our cultures. Don't forget that Europe is not as unified as the USA. Europe is a collection of countries which all have their own culture and language. Some countries even have 4 official languages. In general, European cultures have far more history behind them than the American culture. So some people feel very protective about their culture. Especially the French who are known chauvinists (stereotyping can be useful sometimes

).

But what really pisses (some) Europeans off about the U.S. is what is being perceived as American Arrogance and being the policeman of the world. For instance, the Bush administration has invaded Iraq by ignoring the United Nations, which was NOT well received in Europe. Especially now it turned out that there are NO weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq whatsoever.

Furthermore, the US Congress adopted a law, making it possible to invade Holland (where the international court of justice is located) in case an American is tried there for war crimes. Holland is an ally of the U.S.A. and a fellow NATO member.

Then there is the question of imposing your will unto Belgium into changing their (stupid certainly, but nonetheless THEIR law) genocide law by threatening to move the NATO headquarters out of Brussels and straight into Poland, where the Warschau pact was signed!

I do not agree with all of the views mentioned above. Although I feel very strongly that the Bush Administration should NOT have ignored the UN and invaded Iraq. However, there are many things I admire about the U.S.A. Especially the way you think and feel about your country. You people are very proud of your country and in my opinion have every right to be.

Often it is overlooked what the U.S.A. has done for the world. When Europe was having a conflict called World War 2 you sent troops to liberate us (only after Pearl Harbor ofcourse

). Even if you are the world police as mentioned above. It is a good thing it is the U.S.A. and not the U.S.S.R.

The world largest companies are American and after WW2 because of the international trade between the U.S. , Japan and Europe the wealth worldwide has increased many times.

The U.S.A. has made plenty of mistakes along the way. Creating a heck of a lot of problems, mostly for yourselves. But still I think it is a great country.

Sparhawk · 07-01-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XenuHubbard
Heh, I just spoke to a coffee-shop owner here in Taipei. She lived in the US for two years, but went back to Taiwan.
She said most Asian immigrants were Koreans.
That seemed to be the main reason she left again.

But this poll once again shows how paranoid the US has become.
That I don't want to live in the US doesn't mean I hate the US.
In a Newsweek poll, 75% of the the US population doesn't want to even TRAVEL abroad. Does this mean that the US hates the World? Nope. Most people want to stay where they grew up. It's natural.

As for the "penis envy" - wouldn't a true case of jealousy mean EVERYBODY wanted to move to the US?

ALL the east coast 'Japanese' eateries (sushi and so forth) are run by Koreans.

gxman · 07-18-2003, 01:33 AM

well no shit
look at the damn poll
unless you are in a really bad situation you don't want to leave your house, and you sure as hell don't want to leave the country you have grown up in.
statistics suck man

samcat · 07-18-2003, 04:51 AM

Well, it's like you live in a nice neighbourhood and everybody pretty much gets along. Then some moron moves in and starts driving up and down the street at high speed, throws loud parties, picks fights with people and uses his leaf blower to blow crap all over his neighbours lawn. Nobody much likes him,and the neighbourhood is not as nice as before, but you figure, what the hell, he'll get evicted soon and we can all go back to being friends.

Pennington · 07-21-2003, 06:38 PM

We think that all people want to come into the US simply because every week on the news we hear of illegal aliens sneaking into the country. We allow people to freely leave, but we put strict limits on who can come. Of course this is going to make us think that all the world wants to be here. Whether its true or not, we have the image of america being a place where so many people want to get in, we have to keep them out by gunpoint.

Zeld2.0 · 07-21-2003, 11:16 PM

Well the country is still a place where many want to go in but its only really noticed because of quotas/limits put on.

For me I'm fine with the world being more developed/advancing and stuff.

Frankly though, I don't know why everyone thinks that because such-and-such nation is developing that they are going to hate us and challenge us. Personally, i applaud them developing and becoming challengers.

Challengers not in wars where the country is lead by a madman, but economically perhaps. Take a look at Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore. They became the "big tigers" of Asia 2 decades ago and honestly speaking, w/o them and even China a lot of what the U.S. has wouldn't be here today.

The key IMO is that while nations can develop and advance as they wish, if people can keep a peaceful collectivity it could only benefit humanity as a whole.

Sadly of course knowing human nature there are always going to be the fucktards who ruin it for all :-/

Pennington · 07-22-2003, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zeld2.0
Take a look at Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore. They became the "big tigers" of Asia 2 decades ago and honestly speaking, w/o them and even China a lot of what the U.S. has wouldn't be here today.

From what I know, the US made Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore bastions of capitalism in asia by building them up through American foriegn aid and American government funded businesses for one simple reason: to fight communism. If the US didn't pump money into Taiwan in the 50s, they would never have become an economic power. Same thing with Japan and South Corea to a lesser extent. If the US didn't pump the money into their economies it would have used for its own. Without Japan, Korea and Taiwan, America would be much the same as it is, with maybe a few less video games and cell phones. America benefited from them just as much as we benefited from trade with Mexico, Cananda, and Europe.

Zeld2.0 · 07-22-2003, 09:42 AM

Yes and no. Yes we pumped a lot of money into those countries to fight communism but at the same time we also tried to keep off. Singapore and Hong Kong were part of the UK for a while - hell Hong Kong til a few years recently.

Im saying their boom a decade or so ago wasn't as much the U.S. pumping money in - they helped rebuild it decades ago and sure htat gave them the infrastructure, but it was the jump start and to acutally get to where they were requires more than that of course.

And the thing is, those nations / locales were ravaged by war. Taiwan was merely where the Nationalist party fled to after the Communists took over mainland China. Singapore & Hong Kong had been taken by the Japanese in WW2. Japan you already know what happened during the war there.

The U.S. helped pump money - but i will tell you this, it wasn't as much as West Europe. Europe got like $10 billion and Asia less than a billion.

I'd say more or less that in the end they developed independently. The U.S. itself rebuilt a lot of Japan. But to say their technological strides and advancments today, hell even a decade ago, weren't independent is somewhat wrong.

Anyways the U.S. depends so much on other countries theres really no reason we should even be trying to stifle other countries growth. If no countries were run by nutcases and would rather benefit humanity instead of their own ends, i think it would help things around a lot.

SCBullit · 07-22-2003, 10:05 AM

Let them try to get along without us then and see what happens!

Zeld2.0 · 07-22-2003, 10:17 AM

Well thats a funny thing because they wouldn't be the only ones suffering, we'd be suffering pretty bad considering we rely almost solely upon others right now

so yeah bring em all down while we do it to ourselves!

i sometimes though enjoy how people say "boycott foreign stuff" and "100% usa" when its amusing that practically all our products are foreign now anyways

06-18-2003, 05:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	Great Survey __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

06-18-2003, 06:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	It's interesting! Of course we knew beforehand that Canadians don't like us. Makes no difference how it is worded and reworded - Canadians don't like us. I really wish there were someway that for a while the US didn't exist. I would like to see Canada butted up against Mexico for a while with no US present. It would be interesting to see if they still had these feelings. If the French don't like us at this point it would be totally inane for them to admit it because it's quite obvious that few Americans really care if France exists at this point. Noticed that people seem to like our music, movies, and television - but didn't like American websites? Sure seems to be a bunch that have little but hate toward America that hang out on this one quite frequently. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

06-18-2003, 06:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
Prophecy Oracle & Apollyon Location: Limbus Patrum	shrugs Its been said before, we aren't liked world wide, big deal. We'll see who the other countries ask for help when they need it. __________________ La Disciplina È La Mia Spada, La Fede È Il Mio Schermo, Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza, E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

06-18-2003, 07:04 AM	#6 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Touchy, touchy... Look at the survey. Canada is 65 in favour of the US (compared to 88 of Americans in favour of the USA and -43 Brazilians). I would say that most Canadians who have issues with the US are specifically concerned with the administration and with the general attitude of US (i.e. arrogance implied or infered). __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-18-2003, 07:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i do agree that the US is very arrogant and takes canada for granted in a lot of ways. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-18-2003, 06:28 AM	#4 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	Obviously a case of penis envy.

06-18-2003, 07:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	And like I tried to point out above - I really wish we could remove the US from the picture - just slide Canada down and Mexico up until the twain shall meet. Let both of them live with this for a year and retake your poll. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

06-18-2003, 09:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
tinfoil Fucking Hostile Location: Springford, ON, Canada	As a Canuck, I have no real problem with the US. Sure, there is an impression of uneducated ignorance in regards to Americans that is shared by many Canadians, but in my opinion many of those Canadians are no more educated or less arrogant than the very people they disparage. Geep, great point. __________________ Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

06-18-2003, 09:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
Scipio Mencken Location: College	The Pew Research Center's report on world opinions is much more extensive. I'd also like to point out that it's not so much the case that other countries need us so much as we need other countries. We're almost totally dependant on foreign oil. Our market system and large corporations depend on foreign labor markets to cut costs and compete. In the foreign policy and military policy areas, it's evident that we need help. As good as our military is, and it's damn good, it's streched pretty thin. Through the 90s, our pilots were subjected to endless bombing campaigns, with very few breaks. Now, with all the military actions that are ongoing, many reservists have been called up indefinitely. We currently have well more than 2 army divisions committed to Iraq, and it's still not enough. In Afghanistan, we're quietly negotiating with the Taliban (remember them? we "ended" their rule over there.) Opinion does matter. Countries with hostile populations are a threat to the US, and Bush administration policies do nothing to deal with these root causes. I'm not worried about Canada. There's still some popular outrage about the war, and if you check back to polls from a few years ago, I'm guessing that they like us more. And LD, perhaps the fact that we're their biggest trading partner and cultural ally is more important to them than our keeping the Mexicans out. __________________ "Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

06-18-2003, 09:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
Scipio Mencken Location: College	Sorry to take you out of context like that. It sounded kinda bad the way you put it the first time, so I just went with it. __________________ "Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

06-18-2003, 01:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
The Bolshevist Insane Location: Vancouver, Canada	Scipio - well said. As a Canadian, I understand the common way we treat the Americans; love their choices and standard of living, but are envious at the same time. I myself have met many 'Yanks' and have one as my best friend, and I don't know of a person more knowledgeable in a lot of areas than her. Not only that, but her understanding of the US political system is staggering. Certainly we disagree on some things (zed vs. zee, for example), but than again, don't good friends have their tiffs from time to time? We didn't go to Iraq, but we did go to Afghanistan (skipping over the friendly fire incident...) and it is true; many of us disagree with the current US administration. Doesn't mean we don't like or hate the US; we just don't like the gov't. As for the stat that 4 out of 5 people wouldn't want to live in the US, given the chance...well, sometimes home is where the heart is. Every nation is the world's best country, from a certain point of view. Liquor Dealer - Hee hee!!! Hmm...no US between Canada and Mexico. Does that mean physically (a giant coastline along the 49th parallel) or simply no Americans. I doubt we would have many problems...the Mexicans can get California, we can get Florida and we'll swap Texas every second weekend!! __________________ Workers of the world, UNITE! You have nothing to lose but your silly uniforms and paper hats!!

06-18-2003, 03:11 PM	#15 (permalink)
Easytiger Insane Location: Tigerland	Liquor Dealer- do you really think that there's no-one else who would take the US's role if she magically disappeared tomorrow? I will play devil's advocate by saying that whoever felt like colonising a very large, resource-rich empty country with a stable climate might have an economic advantage of some kind over other nations. Of course there would be chaos in the short term. That is undeniable. The status quo of the world would change. No doubt. But there WAS a world before America existed, and that world would survive without America. It would be very different, but it would still be there. Oh, and the idea of Canada and Mexico fighting over the spoils is a classic. I have images of sombrero-clad armies facing off against Mounties.

06-18-2003, 03:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i think EU, once it gets powerful, will become a real strong opposition to the US (mainly economically) __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-18-2003, 07:11 PM	#18 (permalink)
sykosystem Upright	There was a recent BBC poll as well with some crazy findings (could it be the same one)- summary at http://www.catalyzerjournal.com/cnew...pTHnJAxgK.html , their big thingy at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2994924.stm 57% had a very unfavorable/fairly unfavorable attitude to US

06-18-2003, 10:01 PM	#19 (permalink)
Scipio Mencken Location: College	I'm gonna stick up for LD here. All he was saying is, we do way more good than harm, and Canada (and lots of other countries) benefit because we're here. Still, we have to resist the tendency to think that the world is out to get us. All this Europeans hate us, Koreans hate us, Arabs hate us, terrorists hate us, and don't even get me started on the French, but it doesn't get us anywhere. There is a lot of envy of our wealth, and when they don't see us helping them as much as they think we could, there's resentment too. I'm of the view that if we take care of the international community (I don't mean bailing out poor countries, merely encouraging democracy and free markets), it will take care of us. __________________ "Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

06-18-2003, 11:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Flimsy polls like this are pretty useless, especially when it comes to policy-related decisions. What a sample of a population "feels" about us is really irrelevant in the long-run. Edit: I would say the same thing, regardless of the outcome of the poll. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

06-19-2003, 01:41 AM	#21 (permalink)
Meridae'n Loose Cunt Location: North Bondi RSL	I'd say that I would probably not like to live in the US. My reason? It's not home. This is obviously a conclusion reached without ever setting foot on US soil, therefore it's pretty useless. Most of what we see of America is spoonfed to us from CNN, Michael Moore, and Stephen Speilberg... and to be honest, it doesn't look good from this angle. I'd like to sample before putting my opinion on this in ink... __________________ What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

06-19-2003, 06:43 AM	#22 (permalink)
Ratman Addict Location: Somewhere... Across the sea...	I think that alot of the reason that foreigners dislike Americans has to do with the way many Americans comport themselves when abroad. Living abroad, I see many of my countrymen bitch and complain that the locals are "so fucking stupid" or some such because A. The locals don't speak much English, B. The locals aren't friendly to asshats that believe you can increase communication simply by talking louder and slower- in English, and C. They are not afforded the same constitutional rights abroad as they are at home. I have found that many of the people here love American THINGS, like movies, music, clothes, etc. They just don't care for Americans. By the way, this is a generalization of my experience of two years living abroad. It is not a condemnation of my country, or an invitation for flames. I am an American, and I vote in every election (absentee). I am not more specific about my location because I know that I am NOT in America, and it doesn't matter a bit to the gendarmes here what what is legal in the US (some of the forum contents is not). __________________ The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference. "God made man, but he used the monkey to do it." DEVO

06-19-2003, 07:02 AM	#23 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	It's kind of funny that people seem to dislike Americans. I wonder if it really matters. It seems to me if they dislike us so, doesn't that make them more like what they think we are? Arrogance can be catchy. I've always stuck to this belief: If you look at someone you've never met and see something other than a potential friend, you are the one with a problem, not them.

06-19-2003, 08:04 PM	#25 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	Canada, it's like that loft apartment over that great party. ~Robin Williams I mean, this is kind of ridiculous, I mean, when you have people in your own country that can't stand the government here, why bother to go out and poll Europeans, or Koreans, or Canadians, etc. to find out what they feel. Everyone will have an opinion because they are entitled to it (at least in the countries that took part in the poll.) Do I think we have the best type of government available on this Earth? Yes, do I think it is the best thing since the Pam and Tommy Lee tapes... er,.... I mean sliced bread? Hell no. Our government has it's misgivings, but that's because it's a system set up by man, and man is not perfect, he errs, and things he creates will err. I am a supporter of Bush, I think he could have waited just a little bit longer and gotten more international support, but I still respect the man. Not everyone in those countries polled will want to come to America because they already have a good deal of freedom much like the United States. Yet we still have Cubans who would rather swim all the way to our shores than get on a boat, get a warm blanket and soup, and then be shipped right back to Cuba. I mean, that's what I think people are referring to when they say a lot of foreigners want to come here. They are talking about their tired and huddled masses, that wish for an opportunity that would be a hell of a lot better than what they are experiencing in their own little oppressed nation. If I were born Scottish (which I sometimes wish I was) I don't think I'd like to leave permanently, because I have my family and friends all around me, sure I'd take trips, but I'd probably stay on the British Isles. Sometimes I wish that I had a president that was as eloquent as Tony Blair, but then I think, ya know, I think that I would rather have a POTUS who could explain stuff to the common man better than he could to intellectuals. But that's just my two cents worth, and I hope you guys get something out of it. __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

06-25-2003, 10:14 PM	#29 (permalink)
magic_hat Tilted Location: The Altered State of Drugachusetts	many foreigners love this country for one thing...money. take an el salvadorian dishwasher....comes here and makes more money than he would in his native land and sends money back to support his family...i meet a lot of these guys who dont want to bring their whole family here....not becuase they cant afford it but because they dont like the way we are.

06-26-2003, 10:01 PM	#30 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	Heh, I just spoke to a coffee-shop owner here in Taipei. She lived in the US for two years, but went back to Taiwan. She said most Asian immigrants were Koreans. That seemed to be the main reason she left again. But this poll once again shows how paranoid the US has become. That I don't want to live in the US doesn't mean I hate the US. In a Newsweek poll, 75% of the the US population doesn't want to even TRAVEL abroad. Does this mean that the US hates the World? Nope. Most people want to stay where they grew up. It's natural. As for the "penis envy" - wouldn't a true case of jealousy mean EVERYBODY wanted to move to the US? __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

07-01-2003, 05:48 PM	#31 (permalink)
Nyenrodian Tilted	As a European I can only tell you what Europe (in general) thinks of the U.S.A. Mostly Europeans LIKE Americans. We just don't agree with your current government. Most of all your president. How this guy was ever elected will always be a mystery to Europeans. We consider the guy a joke. However, European governments/politicians aren't that perfect either. What to think of a person like Berlusconi? Also some Europeans feel frustrated that the American culture has such a huge influence on our cultures. Don't forget that Europe is not as unified as the USA. Europe is a collection of countries which all have their own culture and language. Some countries even have 4 official languages. In general, European cultures have far more history behind them than the American culture. So some people feel very protective about their culture. Especially the French who are known chauvinists (stereotyping can be useful sometimes ). But what really pisses (some) Europeans off about the U.S. is what is being perceived as American Arrogance and being the policeman of the world. For instance, the Bush administration has invaded Iraq by ignoring the United Nations, which was NOT well received in Europe. Especially now it turned out that there are NO weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq whatsoever. Furthermore, the US Congress adopted a law, making it possible to invade Holland (where the international court of justice is located) in case an American is tried there for war crimes. Holland is an ally of the U.S.A. and a fellow NATO member. Then there is the question of imposing your will unto Belgium into changing their (stupid certainly, but nonetheless THEIR law) genocide law by threatening to move the NATO headquarters out of Brussels and straight into Poland, where the Warschau pact was signed! I do not agree with all of the views mentioned above. Although I feel very strongly that the Bush Administration should NOT have ignored the UN and invaded Iraq. However, there are many things I admire about the U.S.A. Especially the way you think and feel about your country. You people are very proud of your country and in my opinion have every right to be. Often it is overlooked what the U.S.A. has done for the world. When Europe was having a conflict called World War 2 you sent troops to liberate us (only after Pearl Harbor ofcourse ). Even if you are the world police as mentioned above. It is a good thing it is the U.S.A. and not the U.S.S.R. The world largest companies are American and after WW2 because of the international trade between the U.S. , Japan and Europe the wealth worldwide has increased many times. The U.S.A. has made plenty of mistakes along the way. Creating a heck of a lot of problems, mostly for yourselves. But still I think it is a great country.

07-18-2003, 01:33 AM	#33 (permalink)
gxman Loser	well no shit look at the damn poll unless you are in a really bad situation you don't want to leave your house, and you sure as hell don't want to leave the country you have grown up in. statistics suck man

07-18-2003, 04:51 AM	#34 (permalink)
samcat Upright Location: Calgary	Well, it's like you live in a nice neighbourhood and everybody pretty much gets along. Then some moron moves in and starts driving up and down the street at high speed, throws loud parties, picks fights with people and uses his leaf blower to blow crap all over his neighbours lawn. Nobody much likes him,and the neighbourhood is not as nice as before, but you figure, what the hell, he'll get evicted soon and we can all go back to being friends.

07-21-2003, 06:38 PM	#35 (permalink)
Pennington Banned Location: Autonomous Zone	We think that all people want to come into the US simply because every week on the news we hear of illegal aliens sneaking into the country. We allow people to freely leave, but we put strict limits on who can come. Of course this is going to make us think that all the world wants to be here. Whether its true or not, we have the image of america being a place where so many people want to get in, we have to keep them out by gunpoint.

07-21-2003, 11:16 PM	#36 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Well the country is still a place where many want to go in but its only really noticed because of quotas/limits put on. For me I'm fine with the world being more developed/advancing and stuff. Frankly though, I don't know why everyone thinks that because such-and-such nation is developing that they are going to hate us and challenge us. Personally, i applaud them developing and becoming challengers. Challengers not in wars where the country is lead by a madman, but economically perhaps. Take a look at Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore. They became the "big tigers" of Asia 2 decades ago and honestly speaking, w/o them and even China a lot of what the U.S. has wouldn't be here today. The key IMO is that while nations can develop and advance as they wish, if people can keep a peaceful collectivity it could only benefit humanity as a whole. Sadly of course knowing human nature there are always going to be the fucktards who ruin it for all :-/

07-22-2003, 09:42 AM	#38 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Yes and no. Yes we pumped a lot of money into those countries to fight communism but at the same time we also tried to keep off. Singapore and Hong Kong were part of the UK for a while - hell Hong Kong til a few years recently. Im saying their boom a decade or so ago wasn't as much the U.S. pumping money in - they helped rebuild it decades ago and sure htat gave them the infrastructure, but it was the jump start and to acutally get to where they were requires more than that of course. And the thing is, those nations / locales were ravaged by war. Taiwan was merely where the Nationalist party fled to after the Communists took over mainland China. Singapore & Hong Kong had been taken by the Japanese in WW2. Japan you already know what happened during the war there. The U.S. helped pump money - but i will tell you this, it wasn't as much as West Europe. Europe got like $10 billion and Asia less than a billion. I'd say more or less that in the end they developed independently. The U.S. itself rebuilt a lot of Japan. But to say their technological strides and advancments today, hell even a decade ago, weren't independent is somewhat wrong. Anyways the U.S. depends so much on other countries theres really no reason we should even be trying to stifle other countries growth. If no countries were run by nutcases and would rather benefit humanity instead of their own ends, i think it would help things around a lot.

07-22-2003, 10:05 AM	#39 (permalink)
SCBullit Upright Location: Boston, MA	Let them try to get along without us then and see what happens!

07-22-2003, 10:17 AM	#40 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	Well thats a funny thing because they wouldn't be the only ones suffering, we'd be suffering pretty bad considering we rely almost solely upon others right now so yeah bring em all down while we do it to ourselves! i sometimes though enjoy how people say "boycott foreign stuff" and "100% usa" when its amusing that practically all our products are foreign now anyways