What do y'all think of Kucinich? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lebell · 08-22-2003, 03:23 PM

A good friend of mine really supports Dennis Kucinich for the democratic presidential nomination:

http://www.kucinich.us

What did impress me about Kucinich is that if his stint as mayor is any indication, he actually seems honest. He also seems very big on social justice (an issue dear to me.)

What didn't impress me is that he has not stated his position (at least on his website) about foriegn policy and terrorism both domestic and abroad; something I think he has to address to have even a darkhorse's chance.

Anyone else have any thoughts on him?

mml · 08-22-2003, 04:09 PM

Simply put, he is unelectable even if he had the best ideas out there(which I do not believe). The sad fact is that he has no presence and would most likely follow in the dismal footsteps of Dukakis.

He does seem honest and earnest and truly believes what he says. He just doesn't have what it takes to become President of the United States.

Phaenx · 08-22-2003, 06:38 PM

Complete nutjob, as well as a pretentious ass. Seeing him laugh at one of the other democratic nominees when he got booed at some convention was delicious, even if I felt like tying him to my bumper by his hair and driving cross country site seeing.

Anomaly_ · 08-22-2003, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mml
He just doesn't have what it takes to become President of the United States.

The way I see it, it's the majority of the American population that doesn't have what it takes to support a decent candidate. I guess I'm just disgusted that Bill Bradley and John McCain were not the 2000 Democratic and Republican candidates, respectively. Gore and Bush? Please.

Jon Stewart posed a good question to Kucinich which was something to the effect of " Are you a longshot because you're outspoken, or are you outspoken because you're a longshot? " Unforutnately, I think the former is what holds more weight (for Kucinich anyway; Sharpton fits the latter). Pandering is the bane of politics and, not surprisingly,a great source of power.

JamesS · 08-22-2003, 08:00 PM

I believe that Kucinich is an honest and honorable guy who believes in what he speaks, but he is just too radical for me and it seems most of the country.

I agree with much of what he says; health care reform, repeal of the Patriot Act, campaign finance reform, and the like.

But I think he goes a bit too far in advocating protectionist trade policy and an isolationist foreign policy. (Just my opinion).

I think there are several less radical candidates (perhaps Dean or Kerry) who could achieve much of the good Kucinich would set out to accomplish while also better weathering opposition attacks against them (a la 'tax and spend', 'soft on defense' rhetoric).

JumpinJesus · 08-22-2003, 08:16 PM

I can't see myself voting for any of the possible Democrat nominees. None of them seem very convinced of their own chances, either. Not until a candidate rolls around that has balls enough to say "Bullshit" to George Bush will I consider voting for one.
If I recall, also, I don't think Kucinich was a very popular mayor.

Mojo_PeiPei · 08-22-2003, 08:34 PM

Are you living in a cave on the moon with your eyes closed and your ears plugged? All the Dem's do is bitch about how bad Bush is.

Kadath · 08-22-2003, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Are you living in a cave on the moon with your eyes closed and your ears plugged? All the Dem's do is bitch about how bad Bush is.

Excuse me, that's a cave on MARS, and with our fingers in our ears, if you want to be accurate. Also, apostrophes indicate contraction or possession, not plurality.

Lebell · 08-22-2003, 08:58 PM

*smacks Kadath for being a grammar Nazi...*

bermuDa · 08-22-2003, 09:52 PM

heil!

the presidential elections are glorified popularity contests... and since GWB's approval rating is 59% AFTER admitting to using false information in his State of The Union address that dragged us into a war no one else supported... I'm sad to say there's not a candidate out there that can unseat the drunk driving, cokeheaded oil tycoon...

did i mention he wants to increase logging to cut down on forest fires?

Phaenx · 08-22-2003, 10:02 PM

I would like nothing more then to cut down all the forests to make some hippy cry. That would be quite a feat as well, ever been to Pennsylvania? Jesus christ, we should nuke the trees, there's way to many of them.

(edit - grammar, etc.)

MuadDib · 08-22-2003, 10:57 PM

Kucinich rocks. He's an honest, progressive, real human being. He may be called ultra-liberal, but he is better described as a populist. Some of his positions are pretty left, like universal health care, but some of his positions are very middle of the road and even a little to the traditional right, such as repealing NAFTA and withdrawing from the WTO in favor of bilateral trade agreements and lowering the retirement age. What Kucinich would do is restore the democrat party to its former ideologies by bringing the middle class as well as the liberals back into the fold. Maybe its time the dems stopped being the academic elite and went back to being party of the working American.

I am, however, so infinitely sick of this Kucinich can't win nonsense. Newsflash... no canidate can win if they don't get votes! Its the ultimate self fulfilling prophecy, you convince yourself it can't happen and then you convince others and so on til all those would be votes are gone. How about instead for once we vote the way our hearts say is right and convince others that if we all voted our hearts then change could actually happen. That is how democracy is supposed to work right? You vote for the people that represent you the most?

Here's few good reason Kucinich could easily put Bush down for his dirt nap if he got the nomination. First, Clinton was at a whomping 6% of the vote until late October of 1991 and he not only won the nomination, but the presidency and his re-election bid. Second, his home state of Ohio carries a whomping 19 electoral votes compared to most of the other canidates states. Also, no republican has ever won a presidential campaign in the history of the United States without carrying Ohio. Third, Kucinich's history of downing republicans is long and distinguished. He ousted deeply entrenched, incumbent republicans when he became the mayor of Cleveland, when he was elected to the Ohio state senate, and when he was elected into Congress. He is strongest and most sincere in his issues and he is the starkest contrast to Bush's corporate attitudes and deceptive tendencies. Finally, he has the power to re-invigorate the democratic party. He pulls in the disenfranchised liberals whose absence cost the dems the last election while at the same time bring the working middle class back into the fold. He is the strongest canidate to avoid another Nader fiasco rather than the most likely to cause one. The fact of the matter that 40% of voters will vote democrat no matter what and 40% of voters will vote republican no matter what. The remaining 20% make and break elections. Lets face it, it isn't the moderates and party regulars that swing away, rather its the extremists that sway and vote third party or not at all. Personally, I'd be fine lossing the 5% of democrats that would vote for Bush over Kucinich if it means bring in the 15% of of democrats that will vote third party or not at all if we bring in a moderate (this includes Dean). Probably, what impresses me most with Kucinich is how he gets to the factory workers and farmers. Traditional democrats that were lost after FDR to the republicans. Kucinch represents their interests by wanting to return jobs to the US and advance farm policy. Kucinich can bring those votes back to the democrats and thats another sizable 15%. Kucinich's policies appeal to the working American as well as the liberal intellectuals, the only ones that stand to lose in his presidency are the corporations that have hijacked this country and her government. Kucinich can win and he will win if people will simply vote their hearts in their primaries. Its a time when we've got nothing to lose. I encourage everyone to vote for the canidate they like the most and who has the best ideas in the primaries, not who they think has the best odds as though the elections are some sort of horse race rather than one of the most sacred institutions of democracy. After that its time for pragmatics and party loyalty. After the national convenction I encourage all democrats to support whoever is nominated no matter past differences. But just for once lets give the democratic nomination committee an accurate representation of what we want in a democrat party and in a democratic president... not some plays ball, but some one who alters the very game.

Nizzle · 08-23-2003, 01:05 AM

What does Bush have to do with this thread?

Nizzle · 08-23-2003, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Are you living in a cave on the moon with your eyes closed and your ears plugged? All the Dem's do is bitch about how bad Bush is.

And this differs significantly from the Republican's behaviour during Clinton's term how?

Kadath · 08-23-2003, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
*smacks Kadath for being a grammar Nazi...*

Ow! That was supposed to be tongue in cheek, Lebell. Tongue in cheek!
Also, you should have called me a Simpsons Nazi. Spot the Simpsons reference herein!

JumpinJesus · 08-23-2003, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Are you living in a cave on the moon with your eyes closed and your ears plugged? All the Dem's do is bitch about how bad Bush is.

What I'm looking for is a candidate who doesn't just bitch about how bad he is. Anyone can do that. Hell, I do that. I'm looking for a candidate bold enough to confront him publicly, face to face, and tell him he's full of shit. I haven't seen any candidate that bold yet.

auswegian · 08-23-2003, 07:51 AM

Hypothetically, I would vote for Kucinich if I was a Yank. It sort of nicely rolls off the tongue, "President Kucinich". Good American presidents need at least three syllables in their surname. Dean seems OK, but I despise some of the Democrats, particularly Lieberman.

MuadDib is right, the same problem is facing the Labor party here. They need to draw support from the Left and the extremists like me, or else they won't be able to unseat Howard. Same with the Democrats.

Lebell · 08-23-2003, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
Ow! That was supposed to be tongue in cheek, Lebell. Tongue in cheek!
Also, you should have called me a Simpsons Nazi. Spot the Simpsons reference herein!

I was just havin' some fun witcha...

(missed the Simpsons reference...Doh!!)

TaLoN · 08-23-2003, 12:54 PM

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. being honest has never been a part of being any politician. any politician that you think is honest, only seems that way because their lies haven't been made public. #1 rule of politics: the public can almost NEVER handle the truth. Common people would like to think they know something about politics but they don't. if they did then they would be in a seat of power.

smooth · 08-23-2003, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JumpinJesus
What I'm looking for is a candidate who doesn't just bitch about how bad he is. Anyone can do that. Hell, I do that. I'm looking for a candidate bold enough to confront him publicly, face to face, and tell him he's full of shit. I haven't seen any candidate that bold yet.

I don't understand your beef--the candidates are essentially doing what you are requesting: that they confront him publicly and state he's full of shit.

I don't suspect they have much control over the face-to-face part but I'd venture to claim any one of them--especially Kucinich--would love to set up an actual debate forum but I've yet to see a sitting president appear at such an event.

Participating in a live debate would be suicidal; regardless of whether his policies are correct is less of an issue than he doesn't have anything to gain by engaging in explaining or debating them.

JumpinJesus · 08-23-2003, 03:42 PM

I guess what I'm really hoping for is for this confrontation to take place in full view of the media and the only response Bush will be able to muster is *blink blink*. I guess I won't be satisfied until that moment is captured. Meh, wishful thinking.

Nizzle · 08-23-2003, 04:09 PM

Bush still has relatively strong support, as most incumbents do. I think the Democratic party needs to work on shifting the focus to issues that have been neglected. Attacking Bush is not the right strategy, and will only be preaching to the masses in the long-run.

Sketching out a solid platform that touches back on stuff people care about has a much better chance of getting people's attention and possibly swaying votes. I'm predicting that there is a growing number of people who are tired of hearing about Terrorism; but they are not comfortable with someone who outright denounces the validity of fighting it.

And I think the number of people fed up with the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) our elected officials have been installing in us is going to grow significantly over the course of the next year.

XXXs · 08-23-2003, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MuadDib
Some of his positions are pretty left, like universal health care, but some of his positions are very middle of the road and even a little to the traditional right, such as repealing NAFTA and withdrawing from the WTO in favor of bilateral trade agreements and lowering the retirement age.

Repealing NAFTA is not a something the right is in favor of. The right tends to be pro business, not in the union's pockets. Unions hate NAFTA, republicans love it.

sexymama · 08-23-2003, 08:54 PM

Kucinich is not an issolationist. He is wanting to have the U.S. rejoin the world, not as the "all powerful" but as part of a world community. He feels that USA should join and be subject to international courts of law. He sees diversity as the strength of America and understands that it can also be the strength in a world community.

Although Kucinich was not "loved" as a mayor in Cleveland during his term, the city now recognizes his positive contribution. He kept his promise not to allow a public utility to become private. At the time this seemed like a bad move; however, today it is proven that he has saved tax payers millions of dollars by keeping his campaign promise. He is for the every day citizen, NOT big business.

As far as standing up and facing Bush, Kucinich led the House effort to vote against going to war. He stood his ground, actively recruiting over 100 Congressmembers to vote with him.

As for his standing on terrorism, read the "Prayer for America" speech (link below) to get an idea of his view.

http://christianity.about.com/librar.../aa030602a.htm

MuadDib · 08-25-2003, 04:38 PM

Quote:

I don't suspect they have much control over the face-to-face part but I'd venture to claim any one of them--especially Kucinich--would love to set up an actual debate forum but I've yet to see a sitting president appear at such an event.
Participating in a live debate would be suicidal; regardless of whether his policies are correct is less of an issue than he doesn't have anything to gain by engaging in explaining or debating them.

Precisely! Kucinich is gaining a lot of ground, especially in Iowa, but by and large he is still an unknown canidate. Out of all of the canidates Kucinich is the only one who fundamentally differs from Bush and he is the one who has been criticizing him and his policies since day-one when Bush took office. Unfortunately, Bush has never really addressed Congressman Kucinich personally and it is pry one of the smartest moves the Bush administration has made. At this point for Bush to acknowledge Kucinich would only serve to validate his positions, secure his image as the anti-Bush, and give him the media attention he isn't currently getting.

Its also important to note that none of the other presidential canidates are willing to take Kucinich to point on any of the issues. He is honestly the best speaker with the best positions and the most connected to the average American. He has a heck of a lot going for him and to give him the chance to show that to the world at large would be foolish (those of us who saw the AFL-CIO debates know exactly why)

Anyway, the point is that for those out there who want a real fighter who will take this administration on then Kucinich is your man. Unfortunately, without a lot of help from us the rest of the world may never know it.

mml · 08-26-2003, 10:45 AM

Let's get this strait, I truly believe that Bush needs to go, but if the nominee is Congressman Kucinich, regardless of his policy ideas and programs Bush will stay. Simply, Kucinich = Duakis. You have to be realistic, this is too big an issue to fall back on naive idealism. Sad but true.

Kadath · 08-26-2003, 10:54 AM

There was an article in the latest "Mother Jones" about how the Democratic party needs to get back on track. Nothing novel there, but the author proposed that we need someone like Adlai Stevenson, who paved the way for the Kennedys. Sometimes it's okay to lose the current election to get a candidate you actually respect further down the road.

08-22-2003, 03:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	What do y'all think of Kucinich? A good friend of mine really supports Dennis Kucinich for the democratic presidential nomination: http://www.kucinich.us What did impress me about Kucinich is that if his stint as mayor is any indication, he actually seems honest. He also seems very big on social justice (an issue dear to me.) What didn't impress me is that he has not stated his position (at least on his website) about foriegn policy and terrorism both domestic and abroad; something I think he has to address to have even a darkhorse's chance. Anyone else have any thoughts on him? __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

08-22-2003, 04:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	Simply put, he is unelectable even if he had the best ideas out there(which I do not believe). The sad fact is that he has no presence and would most likely follow in the dismal footsteps of Dukakis. He does seem honest and earnest and truly believes what he says. He just doesn't have what it takes to become President of the United States. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

08-22-2003, 06:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	Complete nutjob, as well as a pretentious ass. Seeing him laugh at one of the other democratic nominees when he got booed at some convention was delicious, even if I felt like tying him to my bumper by his hair and driving cross country site seeing. __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy Last edited by Phaenx; 08-22-2003 at 06:42 PM..

08-22-2003, 08:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
JamesS Crazy Location: Land of the Hanging Chad	I believe that Kucinich is an honest and honorable guy who believes in what he speaks, but he is just too radical for me and it seems most of the country. I agree with much of what he says; health care reform, repeal of the Patriot Act, campaign finance reform, and the like. But I think he goes a bit too far in advocating protectionist trade policy and an isolationist foreign policy. (Just my opinion). I think there are several less radical candidates (perhaps Dean or Kerry) who could achieve much of the good Kucinich would set out to accomplish while also better weathering opposition attacks against them (a la 'tax and spend', 'soft on defense' rhetoric). __________________ The tragedy of life is what dies inside a man while he lives. -- Albert Schweitzer

08-22-2003, 08:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	I can't see myself voting for any of the possible Democrat nominees. None of them seem very convinced of their own chances, either. Not until a candidate rolls around that has balls enough to say "Bullshit" to George Bush will I consider voting for one. If I recall, also, I don't think Kucinich was a very popular mayor. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

08-22-2003, 08:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Are you living in a cave on the moon with your eyes closed and your ears plugged? All the Dem's do is bitch about how bad Bush is. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

08-22-2003, 08:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	smacks Kadath for being a grammar Nazi... __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

08-22-2003, 09:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	heil! the presidential elections are glorified popularity contests... and since GWB's approval rating is 59% AFTER admitting to using false information in his State of The Union address that dragged us into a war no one else supported... I'm sad to say there's not a candidate out there that can unseat the drunk driving, cokeheaded oil tycoon... did i mention he wants to increase logging to cut down on forest fires? __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

08-22-2003, 10:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	I would like nothing more then to cut down all the forests to make some hippy cry. That would be quite a feat as well, ever been to Pennsylvania? Jesus christ, we should nuke the trees, there's way to many of them. (edit - grammar, etc.) __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy Last edited by Phaenx; 08-23-2003 at 05:04 PM..

08-22-2003, 10:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
MuadDib Psycho	Kucinich rocks. He's an honest, progressive, real human being. He may be called ultra-liberal, but he is better described as a populist. Some of his positions are pretty left, like universal health care, but some of his positions are very middle of the road and even a little to the traditional right, such as repealing NAFTA and withdrawing from the WTO in favor of bilateral trade agreements and lowering the retirement age. What Kucinich would do is restore the democrat party to its former ideologies by bringing the middle class as well as the liberals back into the fold. Maybe its time the dems stopped being the academic elite and went back to being party of the working American. I am, however, so infinitely sick of this Kucinich can't win nonsense. Newsflash... no canidate can win if they don't get votes! Its the ultimate self fulfilling prophecy, you convince yourself it can't happen and then you convince others and so on til all those would be votes are gone. How about instead for once we vote the way our hearts say is right and convince others that if we all voted our hearts then change could actually happen. That is how democracy is supposed to work right? You vote for the people that represent you the most? Here's few good reason Kucinich could easily put Bush down for his dirt nap if he got the nomination. First, Clinton was at a whomping 6% of the vote until late October of 1991 and he not only won the nomination, but the presidency and his re-election bid. Second, his home state of Ohio carries a whomping 19 electoral votes compared to most of the other canidates states. Also, no republican has ever won a presidential campaign in the history of the United States without carrying Ohio. Third, Kucinich's history of downing republicans is long and distinguished. He ousted deeply entrenched, incumbent republicans when he became the mayor of Cleveland, when he was elected to the Ohio state senate, and when he was elected into Congress. He is strongest and most sincere in his issues and he is the starkest contrast to Bush's corporate attitudes and deceptive tendencies. Finally, he has the power to re-invigorate the democratic party. He pulls in the disenfranchised liberals whose absence cost the dems the last election while at the same time bring the working middle class back into the fold. He is the strongest canidate to avoid another Nader fiasco rather than the most likely to cause one. The fact of the matter that 40% of voters will vote democrat no matter what and 40% of voters will vote republican no matter what. The remaining 20% make and break elections. Lets face it, it isn't the moderates and party regulars that swing away, rather its the extremists that sway and vote third party or not at all. Personally, I'd be fine lossing the 5% of democrats that would vote for Bush over Kucinich if it means bring in the 15% of of democrats that will vote third party or not at all if we bring in a moderate (this includes Dean). Probably, what impresses me most with Kucinich is how he gets to the factory workers and farmers. Traditional democrats that were lost after FDR to the republicans. Kucinch represents their interests by wanting to return jobs to the US and advance farm policy. Kucinich can bring those votes back to the democrats and thats another sizable 15%. Kucinich's policies appeal to the working American as well as the liberal intellectuals, the only ones that stand to lose in his presidency are the corporations that have hijacked this country and her government. Kucinich can win and he will win if people will simply vote their hearts in their primaries. Its a time when we've got nothing to lose. I encourage everyone to vote for the canidate they like the most and who has the best ideas in the primaries, not who they think has the best odds as though the elections are some sort of horse race rather than one of the most sacred institutions of democracy. After that its time for pragmatics and party loyalty. After the national convenction I encourage all democrats to support whoever is nominated no matter past differences. But just for once lets give the democratic nomination committee an accurate representation of what we want in a democrat party and in a democratic president... not some plays ball, but some one who alters the very game.

08-23-2003, 01:05 AM	#13 (permalink)
Nizzle God-Hating Liberal Location: Silicon Valley, CA	What does Bush have to do with this thread? __________________ Nizzle

08-23-2003, 07:51 AM	#17 (permalink)
auswegian Crazy Location: Perth, Australia	Hypothetically, I would vote for Kucinich if I was a Yank. It sort of nicely rolls off the tongue, "President Kucinich". Good American presidents need at least three syllables in their surname. Dean seems OK, but I despise some of the Democrats, particularly Lieberman. MuadDib is right, the same problem is facing the Labor party here. They need to draw support from the Left and the extremists like me, or else they won't be able to unseat Howard. Same with the Democrats. __________________ "Look, I'm pretty relaxed for a guy who just lost money on a rave. And who's currently speeding down the highway drunk off my tits. And I'm being chased by someone in a blue Corolla. Woohoo! I just ran a red light!"

08-23-2003, 12:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
TaLoN Loser Location: MI	AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. being honest has never been a part of being any politician. any politician that you think is honest, only seems that way because their lies haven't been made public. #1 rule of politics: the public can almost NEVER handle the truth. Common people would like to think they know something about politics but they don't. if they did then they would be in a seat of power.

08-23-2003, 03:42 PM	#21 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	I guess what I'm really hoping for is for this confrontation to take place in full view of the media and the only response Bush will be able to muster is blink blink. I guess I won't be satisfied until that moment is captured. Meh, wishful thinking. __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

08-23-2003, 04:09 PM	#22 (permalink)
Nizzle God-Hating Liberal Location: Silicon Valley, CA	Bush still has relatively strong support, as most incumbents do. I think the Democratic party needs to work on shifting the focus to issues that have been neglected. Attacking Bush is not the right strategy, and will only be preaching to the masses in the long-run. Sketching out a solid platform that touches back on stuff people care about has a much better chance of getting people's attention and possibly swaying votes. I'm predicting that there is a growing number of people who are tired of hearing about Terrorism; but they are not comfortable with someone who outright denounces the validity of fighting it. And I think the number of people fed up with the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) our elected officials have been installing in us is going to grow significantly over the course of the next year. __________________ Nizzle

08-23-2003, 08:54 PM	#24 (permalink)
sexymama My own person -- his by choice Location: Lebell's arms	Kucinich is not an issolationist. He is wanting to have the U.S. rejoin the world, not as the "all powerful" but as part of a world community. He feels that USA should join and be subject to international courts of law. He sees diversity as the strength of America and understands that it can also be the strength in a world community. Although Kucinich was not "loved" as a mayor in Cleveland during his term, the city now recognizes his positive contribution. He kept his promise not to allow a public utility to become private. At the time this seemed like a bad move; however, today it is proven that he has saved tax payers millions of dollars by keeping his campaign promise. He is for the every day citizen, NOT big business. As far as standing up and facing Bush, Kucinich led the House effort to vote against going to war. He stood his ground, actively recruiting over 100 Congressmembers to vote with him. As for his standing on terrorism, read the "Prayer for America" speech (link below) to get an idea of his view. http://christianity.about.com/librar.../aa030602a.htm __________________ If you can go deeply into lovemaking, the ego disappears. That is the beauty of lovemaking, that it is another source of a glimpse of god It's not about being perfect; it's about developing some skill at managing imperfection.

08-26-2003, 10:45 AM	#26 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	Let's get this strait, I truly believe that Bush needs to go, but if the nominee is Congressman Kucinich, regardless of his policy ideas and programs Bush will stay. Simply, Kucinich = Duakis. You have to be realistic, this is too big an issue to fall back on naive idealism. Sad but true. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

08-26-2003, 10:54 AM	#27 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	There was an article in the latest "Mother Jones" about how the Democratic party needs to get back on track. Nothing novel there, but the author proposed that we need someone like Adlai Stevenson, who paved the way for the Kennedys. Sometimes it's okay to lose the current election to get a candidate you actually respect further down the road. __________________ it's quiet in here