Rant on Immigration
 

Obviously not my words, but i find that i agree with most of this.

What do the rest of you think?


This says it all!
Note: As of yesterday newspaper here in the State of Florida this issue had not been decided but please read on!


After hearing that the state of Florida changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her face covered this is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a Tampa newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every! citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

America is a nation of immigrants. As illustrated fairly well by this Washington Post article (LINK), the end result of the recent wave of immigration is uncertain. I would hope that eventually we will be able to "absorb" the new immigrants as Americans within a generation or two, but there are concerns that "the nation will continue to fracture into many separate, disconnected communities with no shared sense of commonality or purpose."

If politicians continue to cater to racial and ethnic groups specifically for their votes, instead of the American in general, it will only hurt the attempt of the US to be a melting pot.

It is very funny, I've always thought of America as the melting pot and the part of our issue here in Canada with our identity stems from the fact that we are a mosaic (i.e. a nation made up of other cultures rather than a nation that imposes a culture upon an immigrant). I say it is funny because I didn't realize that this was much of an issue in the US.

That said, immigrants are the life blood of both of our nations. We have been experiencing declining birth rates and immigrants represent a process of stemming that tide. However, the benefit of the immigrant to our societies is really to be found in the second or third generations.

The children of immigrants are often hard-working, fluently English-speaking, money spending, county loving, tax paying citizens.

While I can sense the frustration of having to deal with immigrants that don't fit in, I see it as a small price to pay for the future.

As for the opinion expressed on Christianity... can't agree less. Following the Christian faith may have been important to the founders of the USA (and Canada) but it is clear that church and state have been seperated within our constitutions... keep religion out of it.

Finally the love of "uncle sam" and the "stars and stripes"... I've always seen patriotism as a double edged sword. One one hand it is a unifying principle (one of the aspects of the melting pot) on the other it can lead to a form of Nationalism that is quite odious.

With specific regards to the driver's license... I don't know enough about the circumstances to be able to judge one way or the other...

That's exactly what is happening here. The flag-waving is more nationalism than patriotism. For many people, it has less to do with pride in our country than it has to do with a "you ain't one of us" mentality.

I thought the woman who wanted her picture with her head covered was a convert to Islam, not an Islamic immigrant. Is that right?

Also, when someone becomes an American citizen, they have the right to work to change whatever they want about America, just as if they were born in the US.

i disagree with it to an extent, but they have the right to change things as much as any other citizen does.

they are as much american as the people who had their ancestors come here a decade or so earlier.

but, i do disagree w/ the idea of printing ballots in other languages and giving special exceptions or privilages to people speakin a certain language.

Why not just use pictograms? That way even those who are born with English as a mother tongue but can't read can participate? ;)

I suppose you only wear ralph lauren and listen to N-Sync?

What's that I hear? The sound of marching brown shirts?

She converted after 9/11, which is odd. I think she has some very serious disorders.

Re: Rant on Immigration
 

BS. One the freedoms I have (and have fought for) as an American is to hold, or not hold, any religious beliefs I want. "In God We Trust" may be our national motto (though only passed in 1956, at the height of the communist scare), but it does not obligate me or anyone else to consider Him to be a part of our "culture".


Also, to leave your country because you dissagree with some portion of the way it is run is the height of cowardice. This is America. If you don't like it, fix it. Love it or leave it is a crock of shit.

i thought the point of the picture on a license was to verify that you are indeed who you say you are...if you cover your damned face, you could be anybody! yes, immigrants should adapt to this country, not the other way around

look this woman wasnt an immigrant ok?

Actually, if all immigrants are supposed to adapt to their host land, shouldn't you be speaking Inuit or some such?

Smoking peace pipes and hunting buffalow?

Things change, it's their nature. Governments exist to REFLECT and SERVE the citizens who elect them. As soon as your rules say X or Y is a citizen, then you have to cater for them.

Simple, plain fact.

TIME OUT

last time i checked, a judge DENIED the appeal of the woman to wear a viel for the id.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/florida.license.veil/

i remember studyin in govt, religion CANNOT be used as an excuse to break a law. the courts simply wont allow it (except for the amish, and i dont know why). i think that came from the chicken killing case, also from florida, church of babalumi vs florida or somethign.

Wow, I'm sort of scared that people actually hold views like this. You have some interesting points, we are a nation of immigrants, and the language of the nation is English. However its also worth pointing out that being an immigrant is already hard enough, it doesn't need to be made harder.

What really disturbs me about your post however is your use of the recent Terrorist attacks to justify an opinion about the rate of naturalization. The only connection that I can see between the two subjects is that they both involve people who were foreign . Most people would be forced to concede that your painting with a pretty damed broad brush there.

As to your "in god we trust" and "love it or leave it" bullshit, well thats one of the saddest crocks I have ever heard. The single greatest thing about this country is the ability to change it. The sort of lock step mentality that your advocating is downright undemocratic, people should be criticizing the government early and often, not waiving flags and acting like cattle.

The language of your nation is English...

Si Senior. ;)

I've seen this "editorial" in circulation ever since 9/11. It's not written in response to the florida thing...

My favorite rebuttal to the English only crap is that in my great state of Minnesota, ballots were printed in 14 different languages in 1860. Talk about multicultural, and they were all shades of white.

What does converting before or after 9/11 have to do with anything?

i think the thing most people forget is that we were immigrants. this land truly "belongs" (if you can own land) to the native americans. remember when we came into their land? refused to adapt to their way of life and then killed them. People like this go out and murder innocents while wearing a bedsheet and a pillow case, and then go and proclaim their patriotism the next.

Re: Rant on Immigration
 

I can't think of one example where the "politically correct crowd" actually complained about someone being patriotic. Its only when racist or religious views are pushed as patriotism that we get upset.


We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

Who says we speak English? America has no official language and several states list both English and Spanish as their official language. Over half don't even have an official language and provide services in the languages of the majority and any sizable minorities. You could agrue that since the majority of Americans speak English that it is therefore THE language, but in some sw states the majority will soon speak spanish as a first language. In those states should we then only speak spanish and force anyone speaking english in those areas to learn spanish or move out?


"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.

The majority of the founding fathers were not, in fact, Christians in true sense of the word. Like many of the prominent Europeans of the time, they were in fact deists, often times denying or minimizing the role of Jesus in religion. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and John Adams being a few examples.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.
Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

Thomas Paine - From The Age of Reason, pp. 8–9:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.”


America is an immigrant nation. There is no true hemogenous "american" culture, all there is is European culture and African culture and Mideastern Cuture and Asian culture that has been brought here. Right now the majority follow English customs and the standard culture of america is english, but soon that may change. When the majority of America speak spanish and are atheists, it will be the english speakers who will be asking for equal rights and representation. All we ask is that the minority is respected as much as the majority.

Pennington,


Well stated

well said indeed

Damn well said:D

America doesn't change laws or rules for immagrants, not should it. Certain custums will change, as popular opinion changes. But we are still a republic not a democracy. And yes English is the offical language of the US.

Imo that goes both ways too. Popular opinion shouldn't change good judgment.

Popular opinion can support dictators and see how good that went in history.

Quick google of american official language

http://www.americasfuture.net/1995/nov95/af-11-5b.html

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...D/question.htm

http://www.usenglish.org/inc/default.asp

http://www.immigrantsforamerica.org/..._language.html

As for changing laws and rules for immigrant, noone is suggesting that we do. The Muslum women should have to get her picture taken without a burka just like I would have to take off my hat and sunglasses. The article posted makes three claims.
1) English is the national language and immigrants should have to learn it.
2) America is a christian nation and immigrants should see it as such.
3) If you don't like it you should leave.

As for 1, if a sizable minority of the taxpayers in an area speak spanish, the ballots in the area should, imho, have spanish instructions so they can exercise their rights as citizens. If their taxes are paying for the public school, then that school should offer spanish classes or at least english transition classes.
2 has been discredited above
3 doesn't need to be discredited. If you don't like it, you should vote for someone who will change it. Thats the way democracy works.

I look at it like this...If I went to Mexico, I sure as hell would respect thier laws and learn spanish if I wanted to live thier. And if it was a requirement to wear a sombrero with a dancing chicken on my head in my drivers license photo it would happen. I wouldn't be bitching about this or that goes against my beliefs. They knew the rules before you came in and they still decided to come. My 2 cents..

hello

I think this thread was made by an extreme nationalist. That's all I have to say about that.

All you people seem to forget that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principle, and that we are a THEIEST nation.

Well, I am part of this nation, and I am not a thieist...

When Virginia was passing their bill for religious freedom, there was some issue whether to make it freedom to be a Christian of any kind or to be anything you chose. The issue was settled in the preamble of the declaration.
Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion."

"The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination." emphasis added.

- Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821. ME 1:67

in·fi·del (nf-dl, -dl)
n.

1. An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam.
2. One who has no religious beliefs.
3. One who doubts or rejects a particular doctrine, system, or principle.


infidel

n : a person who does not acknowledge your God

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


Yup, sounds like the words from a THEIEST nation.

The Declaration of Independance is not a governing document of this country. It is simply a list of greivances and a statement of intent.

I fail to see what your point is. It is a document that is fundamental to this country now, as it was in its founding.

"Drafted by Thomas Jefferson between June 11 and June 28, 1776, the Declaration of Independence is at once the nation's most cherished symbol of liberty and Jefferson's most enduring monument. Here, in exalted and unforgettable phrases, Jefferson expressed the convictions in the minds and hearts of the American people. The political philosophy of the Declaration was not new; its ideals of individual liberty had already been expressed by John Locke and the Continental philosophers. What Jefferson did was to summarize this philosophy in "self-evident truths" and set forth a list of grievances against the King in order to justify before the world the breaking of ties between the colonies and the mother country."

Many, many of the founding fathers called themselves Deists, or freethinkers. If you would like, I could look up the quotes themselves, but its pretty much an established fact. The posted article is obviously defending the phrase"under god" and "in god we trust" by saying that the founding fathers were Christians or at least theists.



de·ism
n.

The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.

Key word here is abandoned. Deist are very much like atheists except that they use divine force in the creation of the universe. They see god as having no effect on worldly affairs and would be opposed to anything like "in god we trust" simply because of that. Why trust in god if you don't believe he is or can do anything or if he even exists any more.

[edit] - As for the Declaration of Independence or any other papers drafted by Congress, you'll see that they put large emphasis on the rights men have because they were created by a creator or nature's god. I fail to see how this doesn't include atheism and evolution. I certianly see my creator as evolution and nature's god as evolution. They specificly avoid the phrase God because they didn't believe in him in the traditional sense.

Why can't everyone just be real people, not morons/jackass/racists/totally oblivious self righteous dickheads/etc.

huh?

All real people are morons/jackass/racists/totally oblivious self righteous dickheads/etc. Thats what makes us human.

haha damn well said pennington

Yes, but if you moved there with 30 million white people you might start to rethink that and wonder when the hell the local services are going to be in English.

It's pretty fucking ironic that a bunch of people who turned up, exterminated most of the locals, imposed their own language on the natives, imposed their religion, and stole the land, are now whining about other people showing up with languages and religions they find strange and frightening.

The only thing that would be more ironic is if the writer whining about Spanish was is Texas, New Mexico, or California.

The way I see it with the Native Americans, it was war they lost... get over it already.

Then stop bitching at the Latinos showing up and taking over the southern states.

Can't have it both ways.

Well I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree. The settlers came here way back when and flourished in a generation. Those border jumpers are low class fodder.

The settlers came here way back when and flourished in a generation.

The settlers were also given free land.

Those border jumpers are low class foder.

So all Mexican immigrants are border jumpers? Are they all predesposed to be part of the lower class? I fail to see how this isn't a racist statement.

Well aren't we talking about the border jumpers and such?

Title of the thread "Rant on immigration."

I have no beef if you come here LEGALLY and become naturalized.

There are many immigrants that came over legally and don't speak english, my grandfather being one of them.

Let's face it... America needs its immigrants.

1) Who else will take the low paying wages in the service industry?
2) Who else will help stop the falling birthrate?

Get over it. Immigrants are an essential part to the growth of North America.

that's just wrong, man.

I moved here from Russia when i was 12. I'm here illegally, but it's not like I had a say in it. (I'll leave the details out of this) It was not up to me.
so I sorta do fit the definition of a "border jumper."
But I sure as hell am not "low class fodder." Stereotyping people like that is simply wrong.
Since I got here, knowing very little English, i've accomplished a lot. More than a lot of Americans that were born here. In fact, many of so called "border jumpers" are far more hard-working and determined than those who are american citizens by birth.

You sound exactly like Ed Norton's neo-nazi character from American History X. I'm not trying to flame or piss you off, I'm seroius, those are practically words out of his mouth.

why do so many people in America speak spanish..Well, maybe cus a nice 1/3 of it used to be part of Mexico or a Spanish territory...

fuck P.C. and i am sick of right winged extremist Christians and Muslims.

The article above is deeply distasteful to me, and is not an accurate picture of America. The writer of the article is clearly a racist, and should be censored and prevented from publishing this sort of thing.

And for people to talk about "American" values being white, Christian, English...

this is incredible. The values of American people from time immemorial were the values of the Indians, to live at one with nature, to worship nature - the heathens that have invaded in recent times, dispossessing the Indians, mocking their God, stealing their land.... their values, the Christian God, the Englsih language - are totally alien to the values of the real American people.

The modern America has always been a melting pot of different cultures, from the start the immigrants and settlers were not exculsively white, English, protestant - they came from all over Europe, and later all of the world, and what has made America so powerful is that it in the past was a land of opportunity for people of all cultures... of course, now we see the mentality from some immigrants, that now they get in, they do not want any more immigrants.

And an edit, for the poster of the topic - if you live in Florida, your language is FRENCH, not English, FRENCH was the official language of Florida as it was settled, not English, FRENCH.

What specifically do you find as deeply distasteful? Please support your statement.

Please understand that I come here to read the opinions of other people. I attempt to understand why they have made their comments, what fueled their emotions. I value their opinion, even though I may disagree with it.

An accurate picture of America, based on what? I have lived in 9 states, each of them have a solid conservative core that believes that the language ought to be English. Not to threadjack - /My RANT - They also believe that it is more expensive to convert all the daily government documentation to multiple language (and train gov people to read translate them) than to teach the immigrant basic english. That immigrants don't deserve a better break, education, home loan or any other benefit than a Freeborn American. They also believe that America has the right to be a little choosy about who it lets in. That America needs teachers, doctors, professionals, not just service related fields.

Yes, some of the comments are raw. Read their words a year from now and see if they have gained any wisdom.

You sure are quick to want to censor people.

I'm glad you're not the grand po-bah.

Why should immigrants adapt to American culture /language/etc anyway? I thought America was supposed to be about freedom and liberty and all that.

As for the flag and Uncle Sam, I hardly see how those symbols would offend any newcomers, from my experiences immigrants often take pride in the nationalistic symbols of their new homeland.

I don't think the writer is a racist, just an angry, frightened person who can't cope with change and so clings to his traditions. It's perfectly normal, and its healthy for a democracy to have these sort of people speaking up. Their cause is probably doomed, so let them rant and rave if they want, it's their right.

if i can take a leaf out of the british book of imigration, you'll always have some bitchy immigrant who thinks that the tinyest little thing is offensive (remember the george cross on the traffic wardens hat), and because of the sheer stupidity of the leaders, they'll bend over double to try and sort this thing out so that this particular guy can be happy, but everyone else won't be. we've had councils ban the english flag because it was thought it might offend other nationalities (who were allowed to fly theirs).

immigrants shouldn't have to learn the language and culture, thats their right, but i have a big thing against them bitching when about our customs when they make no attempt to try and intergrate.

"invasion", "conquest", "genocide" would be rather more appropriate terms. if this is your logic than every resource in the world belongs to whoever is strong enough to take it by brute force.

There is no wisdom in this article, merely hostility, mean spiritedness, heterophobia and disgust.

Is this how the "land of the free" should prove itself so? By forcing those who come in to worship Your god, to speak your language, to subscribe to your cultural values?

Religion should be an individual choice, there is no place for religious indoctrination in any school or public building - it is not for the state to determine who the individual calls God.

Language is a key tie to people's culture, their difference, and inviduality - attempting to destroy language and create conformity is akin to cultural vandalism, it is a hate crime.

Immigrants - all white American's are immigrants - should not be so quick to want to close the gates as soon as they are inside. The persecution, poverty, famine that most of the people who came to America fled from still exists in the world - whats the difference, that the people starving or being persecuted arent so white now?

The article at the start is designed at one thing, dehumanizing outsiders, "oh, they are not like us, they dont speak like us, they come here to take our jobs, they come here to get welfare to take our taxes..." this is the worst kind of politics, and yes it should be censored. When public words seek to do harm, or incite harm, on groups in society, especially the most vulnerable groups, they should be censored.

And sad is it may be, the St George's cross is a racist symbol now, because racist groups have captured it and made it their own - it doesnt mean pride in England, it means soccer hooliganism, racism, skinheads and hate.

I agree to some degree. There are lots of dangerous drivers in the San Fernando Valley (where I live) who simply cannot READ that the sign says "STOP" or "Speed Limit 35".

There's no excuse to not learn the language native to the land you choose to inhabit. Most of us when traveling abroad find it fun and interesting to learn a bit of the French, Japanese, Italian, so on. We celebrate this difference in culture because we respect the difference. Not in our backyard, though.

"Nehmen ein stuch papier raus!" (All I recall from German class)
"Quando ero piccolo, leggevo i libri della favola. Un giorno, mentre guardavo un film, mi sono ricordato i buoni libri." (I suck at Italian)

It's been a few years since I've read Sir Winston's "History of the English Speaking People", but as I recall, England went through some conquerings with the Saxons, Angles, Normans, etc.

Are you 100% positive you're a native Briton, Strange Famous? Or are you just a victorious squatter on lands that originally belonged to someone else??

Of course, the British Isles were invaded and populated many times by different tribes; the case is rather less blurred with America though.

It was a land populated by the Indians, invaded by the Spanish, and then the rest of Europe, in modern history - the difference with Briton is that by and large the cultures of the various tribes and invadors, over time, merged into each other - where as in America one culture virtually destroyed and dispossed another.

Of course the case is less blurred...but only be virtue of the fact that the British have had about a 1000 years, give or take a few hundred to blend together.

America has had, what, about 200 years, give or take a few depending on what area of the country you're in?

Heck, even in Briton you still get groups that strongly identify as cultural groups; e.g. the Welsh, the Scotts, the Irish, etc.

My own feeling is that our "melting pot" is our greatest strength and our greatest weakness.

As you've correctly pointed out, in Briton, there is a blending. This is what allows the decendants from all those tribes from so long ago to live in relative harmony today

But isn't this exactly what the original author wants immigrants to do?? Blend and make ONE culture instead of creating what amounts to tribal enclaves?

But for this, he is called "racist".

Well, if THAT is some people's definition of racist; to want a unified culture where differences are celebrated, but not focused on, where we speak one unifying language in our official business, where immigrants are welcomed but not catered too, then sign me up. I must be "racist" too.

The article is not talking about a blending of cultures, it is saying "you are not welcome in America unless you educate your children in places where they pray to our God, unless you stip practising all those un-American customs you have where you come from, unless you speak like us, unless you want to sing our anthem and salute our flag"


I mean, when you read this, how do you reconcile it to your statements of a "melting pot" of "celebrating differences"?

The article is mean to create hostility to people who look different, act different, talk different, pray to different Gods... a state has the right to the rule of law, but not to tell people what to believe of what their culture should be. People who come to America should be subject to American law, if English is not their strongest langauge, there should be support for them to learn, and also support so that they can actually understand the law and what they are entitled to,,, because we understand that when one says "all offical documents in English" this means that if you speak Spanish you probably wont be able to claim welfare/benefits that you are entitled to, that you may be exploited in the workplace because you dont understand your rights and no one seems to represent you.

American culture is unique, because it has no real roots in history of the land, but it is a constant flux of so many different influances, and this has been a great strength of America. The goal is to encourage this, the goal is that the American dream be as open now to people who are hopeless and cannot find their home in their own land as it was 150 years ago.

The article demonstrates a staggering or willful ignorance of history, refusing to accept that the "American culture" that they talk of IS the culture of immigrants. America was not a Christian country, it was filled with people who worshipped nature, America is not a capitalist country, it was filled with peasants who lived form the land, America is not a democratic country, it was filled with tribal communist societies. Everything that this article calls America is the European incarnation of America, a very recent and modern creation.

Again, this article leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it is hateful and hostile - filled with statements that amount to saying "you are not welcome, your kind are not welcome"

We must be reading different articles.

Because I see the flag, the anthem, the national motto, etc. to BE our culture that we have built.

And we welcome those who want to come here and celebrate it with us.

But I also do not welcome those who want to come here and want us to accommodate them at the expense of that culture.

This has been an interesting thread. As a Canadian, I am fiercely proud of the fact that my country is considered multicultural, and not a melting pot. I've learnt so much of other cultures do to this fact and have myself become a broader minded person because I've learned to adapt to their culture as they adapt to mine. Visiting communities and partaking in their traditional activities has produce a number of great experiences for me.

I, for one, am glad I don't get to be lazy while others struggle just to fit my preferences. I hope that never changes.



SLM3

Don't take this personally, but your post about Canada is the ultimate irony and reason I don't want that particular brand of "multiculturalism".

I have no desire to go through down here with four or five distinct cultures what you go through up there with two.

We welcome new people to America every day. We participate in exchange programs. We support charity programs all over the world.

You continually speak of your being in touch with mainstream America, but you continually make outlandish statments. Statements that show you are uninformed as to the feelings of Americans.

Is it wrong to ask someone from an impoverished nation or a political refugee to learn enough of your language so that they can integrate sucessfully in to the day to day requirements of being a citizen WITHOUT catering to their every need. If I were in their shoes I would GLADLY go to night school and learn a bit of the native tongue so that I could vote, earn a wage and purchase a home under the safety of the American flag. I would also make sure that my children could speak the language of their heritage. CITIZENSHIP HAS RESPONSIBILITIES!

I see no mention of religion in my response. I have no idea what so ever why you would post this. I do however agree with your statement and add:
And also the right to choose to NOT worship the god, sun, devil ar tree.

Already answered the language issue, please keep your thoughts together. Hate crime, I don't hate another language or that a person uses it and I hope that the culture has the backbone to not lose its language. Ever hear of BILINGUAL?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=BILINGUAL

Under your thought process, ALL AMERICANS ARE IMMIGRANTS. Even the "Native Americans", they got here sometime from somewhere.

I am NOT an immigrant, I was born here.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=immigrant

A cross means different things to different people. If you have personally taken it upon yourself to change your internal meaning of the cross, then its on you.

You are so quick to censor. Everyone is inciting a riot or belittling someone else.

I, like others am glad you are not in charge. Your statements reveal that you have not tolerance for any opinions but your own.

Citizenship has responsibilities. Google it.

Which two distinct cultures would that be?



SLM3

You're not serious, right?

Thanks for the overly condescending end to this thread for me, Mr. Super Moderator. It's been a blast.



SLM3

I'm sorry you took it that way, but I was being completely serious.

To me the problems that Canada has with the competing French and English cultures is so obvious, I simply couldn't believe you were being serious.

Again, I'm sorry that you took offense.

Do you really think French culture is what contrasts English culture the most out here in Vancouver, Edmonton, and Calgary?




SLM3

Could you rephrase that? I don't understand the question.

um, they're actually different countries, and the Irish republic isn't part of Great Britain anyway.

as for the idea of britain merging together from several different cultures over several thousand years is also rather stupid. over history, there have been several instances where the indigenous culture has been merged with an invading one over a few hundred years, only for the process to be repeated again (romans, saxons, vikings), and it was only really after the normans that the culture settled down and evolved how it is today, so no bitching about time already.

The last time I looked at a map, Scotland and Wales were firmly in the UK, as was Northern Ireland.

And I'm sorry, but I don't see that you provided any argument against what I said other than, "I don't agree", which is valid as far as it goes, but not convincing to me.

As an aside, the Vikings and the Saxons never really culturally conquered England, they very much became a part of the local culture... the only real conquests England has suffered was the Roman and Norman conquest.