Water stations in the desert- aiding illegal immigration? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Sun Tzu · 07-15-2003, 03:57 AM

There are deaths occurring in the US/Mexico border desert. Individuals are crossing illegally and dying from heat related injuries. As a response public outcry has demanded things such as water stations be erected along the way.

There are hundreds of sites to go to about this subject; I’m sure most who frequent this area have heard about it. I’m interested in what other think about the debate that’s continuing to grow.

Is it inhumane to not provide a safe environment for illegal immigration along the Mexican border?

Should people be held accountable for their actions whereas no one is forcing individuals to venture into the boiling desert?

Would posting border patrol agents at the water stations be the same as not having them? (knowing they would be avoided)

Would having a strong military presence at the border be a strong enough deterrent?

Kadath · 07-15-2003, 06:17 AM

Time to take the bad guy stance.
I'm not a Buchanan "build a wall around America" kind of guy. I think we grow stronger from inclusion of fresh blood. I think that anyone who complains about lazy Mexican immigrants needs to take a good hard fucking look in the mirror. But I'm not in support of enabling this particular criminal behavior. Putting up water stations would be tantamount to saying "We know it's going to happen, come on in." I think that if people want to take a risk to try to improve their quality of life, that's their perogative, but we shouldn't try to alleviate that risk, neither to life or to legal status.
But nothing is going to be enough of a deterrent, Sun Tzu. If a person wants in bad enough, he'll crawl through broken glass on his belly.

seretogis · 07-15-2003, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
Time to take the bad guy stance.
I'm not a Buchanan "build a wall around America" kind of guy. I think we grow stronger from inclusion of fresh blood. I think that anyone who complains about lazy Mexican immigrants needs to take a good hard fucking look in the mirror. But I'm not in support of enabling this particular criminal behavior. Putting up water stations would be tantamount to saying "We know it's going to happen, come on in." I think that if people want to take a risk to try to improve their quality of life, that's their perogative, but we shouldn't try to alleviate that risk, neither to life or to legal status.
But nothing is going to be enough of a deterrent, Sun Tzu. If a person wants in bad enough, he'll crawl through broken glass on his belly.

Holy shit, I agree with Kadath!

Although, perhaps we need to scatter some broken glass along the bottoms of border fences?

Kadath · 07-15-2003, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
Holy shit, I agree with Kadath!

Although, perhaps we need to scatter some broken glass along the bottoms of border fences?

I've noted when the "bad guys"

agree with one of us "good guys," it's because the good guys bend toward the center, and not the other way around.

We're all clear by my use of the rolleyes and quotes that I'm being sarcastic about calling conservatives "bad guys," right? I don't want anyone's panties in a bunch...

seretogis · 07-15-2003, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
I've noted when the "bad guys" agree with one of us "good guys," it's because the good guys bend toward the center, and not the other way around.

We're all clear by my use of the rolleyes and quotes that I'm being sarcastic about calling conservatives "bad guys," right? I don't want anyone's panties in a bunch...

That's not entirely true. Conservatives who aren't slaves to religion often agree with libs on problems, yet disagree on how to fix them. I can only think of a few issues where there is a serious moral divide between the two "sides" in regards to defining an issue as a problem that needs to be fixed, or not.

Liquor Dealer · 07-15-2003, 11:30 AM

Economic necessity is a drive that is going to bring them across the border and it makes absolutely no difference what we attempt to do to deter it. The only way we are ever going to stop the influx from Mexico is to do something, or help them do something that will improve the economy of Mexico. They would not be coming if they didn't have to. You want to throw in some controversy to this thread ? Let's annex Mexico. I doubt anyone, including the current Mexican government would argue that they wouldn't all be better of if we did!

Sun Tzu · 07-15-2003, 12:39 PM

Well in sense we did kind of annex some of Mexico; whether they liked it or not.

Sen · 07-15-2003, 01:03 PM

Given the economic viability of Mexico, if we annexed them it would only raise our taxes due to the influx of people into the American social safety net.

Liquor Dealer · 07-15-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sen
Given the economic viability of Mexico, if we annexed them it would only raise our taxes due to the influx of people into the American social safety net.

Don't know if you've looked around lately but most of them already are. At least under those conditions we could develop the natural resources - eliminate the terminal graft that has always been present in Mexican government, and relocate a lot of those who have come north back to their homeland.

Sen · 07-15-2003, 08:03 PM

While your ideas of developing natural resources and eliminating graft are good ones, I believe it's a misconception to say that "most" Mexicans are already mooching off of U.S. social programs. Mexico City, alone, is one of the most populous cities in the world.

Mojo_PeiPei · 07-15-2003, 09:13 PM

I don't know why American tax dollars are being WASTED aiding ILLEGAL border jumpers to get across.

Kadath · 07-16-2003, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
That's not entirely true. Conservatives who aren't slaves to religion often agree with libs on problems, yet disagree on how to fix them. I can only think of a few issues where there is a serious moral divide between the two "sides" in regards to defining an issue as a problem that needs to be fixed, or not.

I was referring to my experience around here on the TFP, rather than in politics as a whole. Maybe, then, the coservatives here are slaves to religion?

No, no, just kidding...

Daval · 07-16-2003, 07:51 AM

Wow, I'm agreeing with most of the guys that I never usually do. Good thread.

Lebell · 07-16-2003, 10:09 AM

Watering stations are enabling self destructive/illegal behavior while providing no offsetting benefit.

Phaenx · 07-16-2003, 10:48 AM

No water stations, increase the INA 5 fold, tell them to get off their lazy asses.

(Or was that INS? Always mix that up, eh.)

Ace_of_Lobster · 07-17-2003, 04:05 PM

How about we just open our border to mexicans?
Seriously!

crewsor · 07-17-2003, 04:07 PM

Sure, lets build some water stations. After that we can supply some flak jackets in convenient locations in high crime areas so the poor people holding up the liquor stores won't have to risk getting fatally wounded trying to improve their income. And don't forget the rapists. They are at risk of STDs. We must make condoms available to them somehow. I'd like to know what genius
comes up with this stuff.

Trilidon · 07-17-2003, 05:19 PM

I think we should act a bit more like Italy and Ireland.

Like Ireland, because they are starting to close loopholes that allow immigrants into the country

Like italy, give border jumpers a warning, then open fire. We will never stop illegal immigration, but we sure as fuck can deter it or slow it the fuck down.

seretogis · 07-17-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trilidon
I think we should act a bit more like Italy and Ireland.

Like Ireland, because they are starting to close loopholes that allow immigrants into the country

Like italy, give border jumpers a warning, then open fire.

Agreed. Legal immigration is fine, but illegally immigrating and then jumping on welfare and demanding the right to a drivers license (only in MN

) is over the line. No pun intended.

The_Dude · 07-17-2003, 07:38 PM

this is another instance of us encouraging illegal immigration (remember back before 911, bush wanted to give amnesty to ALL mexican illegal immigrants so he could get the hispanic vote??).

i personally dont think that children of illegal immigrants should be given a free education either. that's encouraging illegal immigration even more. (in texas, illegal immigrants can even receive state funding for college education. kinda sad, when legal immigrants like me cant get much)

Trilidon · 07-17-2003, 09:05 PM

In some instances in Ireland immigrants are given free housing and new cars.

Immigration is out of control everywhere.

View Poll Results: The US placing water and safety stations in the desert
saves valuable human life- thats all that matters.	7	31.82%
should not happen- its they're choice to risk their life crossing illegally	13	59.09%
should continue under guard.	1	4.55%
a different solution	1	4.55%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

07-15-2003, 03:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Water stations in the desert- aiding illegal immigration? There are deaths occurring in the US/Mexico border desert. Individuals are crossing illegally and dying from heat related injuries. As a response public outcry has demanded things such as water stations be erected along the way. There are hundreds of sites to go to about this subject; I’m sure most who frequent this area have heard about it. I’m interested in what other think about the debate that’s continuing to grow. Is it inhumane to not provide a safe environment for illegal immigration along the Mexican border? Should people be held accountable for their actions whereas no one is forcing individuals to venture into the boiling desert? Would posting border patrol agents at the water stations be the same as not having them? (knowing they would be avoided) Would having a strong military presence at the border be a strong enough deterrent? __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

07-15-2003, 06:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Time to take the bad guy stance. I'm not a Buchanan "build a wall around America" kind of guy. I think we grow stronger from inclusion of fresh blood. I think that anyone who complains about lazy Mexican immigrants needs to take a good hard fucking look in the mirror. But I'm not in support of enabling this particular criminal behavior. Putting up water stations would be tantamount to saying "We know it's going to happen, come on in." I think that if people want to take a risk to try to improve their quality of life, that's their perogative, but we shouldn't try to alleviate that risk, neither to life or to legal status. But nothing is going to be enough of a deterrent, Sun Tzu. If a person wants in bad enough, he'll crawl through broken glass on his belly. __________________ it's quiet in here

07-15-2003, 11:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Economic necessity is a drive that is going to bring them across the border and it makes absolutely no difference what we attempt to do to deter it. The only way we are ever going to stop the influx from Mexico is to do something, or help them do something that will improve the economy of Mexico. They would not be coming if they didn't have to. You want to throw in some controversy to this thread ? Let's annex Mexico. I doubt anyone, including the current Mexican government would argue that they wouldn't all be better of if we did! __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

07-15-2003, 12:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Well in sense we did kind of annex some of Mexico; whether they liked it or not. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

07-15-2003, 01:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sen Insane Location: Midwest	Given the economic viability of Mexico, if we annexed them it would only raise our taxes due to the influx of people into the American social safety net. __________________ "I want to announce my presence with authority!" "You want to what?" "I want to announce my presence with authority!!"

07-15-2003, 08:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sen Insane Location: Midwest	While your ideas of developing natural resources and eliminating graft are good ones, I believe it's a misconception to say that "most" Mexicans are already mooching off of U.S. social programs. Mexico City, alone, is one of the most populous cities in the world. __________________ "I want to announce my presence with authority!" "You want to what?" "I want to announce my presence with authority!!"

07-15-2003, 09:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I don't know why American tax dollars are being WASTED aiding ILLEGAL border jumpers to get across. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

07-16-2003, 07:51 AM	#13 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	Wow, I'm agreeing with most of the guys that I never usually do. Good thread. __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

07-16-2003, 10:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Watering stations are enabling self destructive/illegal behavior while providing no offsetting benefit. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

07-16-2003, 10:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
Phaenx The Northern Ward Location: Columbus, Ohio	No water stations, increase the INA 5 fold, tell them to get off their lazy asses. (Or was that INS? Always mix that up, eh.) __________________ "I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy Last edited by Phaenx; 07-16-2003 at 02:42 PM..

07-17-2003, 04:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
Ace_of_Lobster Crazy	How about we just open our border to mexicans? Seriously! __________________ "Hundreds of men must have told you how beautiful you are. Would you displease the gods to hear it once more? I wouldn't. Im young and I hope to see a god before I die." -Patera Silk

07-17-2003, 04:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
crewsor Women want me. Men fear me. Location: Maryland,USA	Sure, lets build some water stations. After that we can supply some flak jackets in convenient locations in high crime areas so the poor people holding up the liquor stores won't have to risk getting fatally wounded trying to improve their income. And don't forget the rapists. They are at risk of STDs. We must make condoms available to them somehow. I'd like to know what genius comes up with this stuff. __________________ We all have wings, some of us just don't know why.

07-17-2003, 05:19 PM	#18 (permalink)
Trilidon Tilted	I think we should act a bit more like Italy and Ireland. Like Ireland, because they are starting to close loopholes that allow immigrants into the country Like italy, give border jumpers a warning, then open fire. We will never stop illegal immigration, but we sure as fuck can deter it or slow it the fuck down. Last edited by Trilidon; 07-17-2003 at 09:53 PM..

07-17-2003, 07:38 PM	#20 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	this is another instance of us encouraging illegal immigration (remember back before 911, bush wanted to give amnesty to ALL mexican illegal immigrants so he could get the hispanic vote??). i personally dont think that children of illegal immigrants should be given a free education either. that's encouraging illegal immigration even more. (in texas, illegal immigrants can even receive state funding for college education. kinda sad, when legal immigrants like me cant get much) __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

07-17-2003, 09:05 PM	#21 (permalink)
Trilidon Tilted	In some instances in Ireland immigrants are given free housing and new cars. Immigration is out of control everywhere.