Look at the time line, then reconsider what I wrote.

To me it is beyond belief that people thought that she would seriously run for President after resigning as Governor mid-term. Liberals could have let the concept of her running die that moment, but for some reason they did not, why?

Of course she was not going to close the door on the possibility of running for President. who did not know that, yet the talk and attacks continued, why?

Her voice and her stature grows stronger with each attack by liberals, why don't you see that? Don't some liberals joke about loving to see her as the Republican Pary nominee? Now, I hope they get their wish.

I wish McCain had that kinda attitude - if so we would not even be discussing this.

We rarely talk about her policy positions, but I agree with the above. Are her beliefs a problem, or is the narrative that she is "ignorant" - which is it? can she be "ignorant" and be a champion of anything?

If she reacts to the political environment that is bad, if X responds to the political environment that is...What?

Also, she doesn't change her message, her tone, her core values. She stands strong. I don't see that as reactionary.

Yes, I know you want her to be Obama-like. I don't.

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

What is your point? Dershowitz is not conservative nor does he consider himself a person who supports Palin. He simply offers his honest opinion. I stated that you have a point of view that is not shared by all - hence it is a matter open to an honest discussion - yet you claim unfairly that Palin is ignorant. I shot a hole in your argument and your response to that is incoherent and it appears that you lack the ability to admit that you could be wrong on Palin being ignorant.

ace--you aren't talking about anything. your construction of obama these days is particularly absurd. cheney did an interview yesterday in which is praised obama's foreign policy as a vindication of the bush administration's....he's talking about going after "job-killing regulation"----you may be getting triangulated again.

as for your absurd narrative about palin being resurrected through some imaginary "liberal resentment"---i don't know where you're getting your infotainment from. it's been pretty clear what sarah palin (tm) has been after. she's a political brand. whether she is able to run coherently for president or merely profits unreasonably from playing chumps like you is likely a six of one half dozen of the other matter to sarah palin inc.

your relation to the brand "sarah palin" is beyond bizarre. i don't imagine you're speaking for anyone but yourself---and i think you don't even believe this stuff--that you're just trying it out like wearing a gown to a company social event. have fun with that.

ace, you don't seem to accept the plain fact that Palin has positioned herself as an opposing force to liberalism and progressive politics in the U.S. via a reactionary politics. The Republicans have done the same. It fuels Beck's hue and cry. To the Tea Partiers, reactionary politics is its raison d'être.

It's not that difficult.

---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

Ace, just stop. You know Sarah Palin is an unintelligent woman. It's impossible for you not to know it. All of the dissonance in the world can't hide her consistently unintelligent statements. She's just said another stupid thing in a long line of stupid things. She's stupid. It's only a reflection on you because you're one of her inexplicable supporters. If you could peel yourself away from the dissonance for a second, you'd come to the conclusion that because she's so unintelligent, she isn't deserving of your admiration on issues which require intellect.

I invite you to suspend dissonance for a moment. Think about all the things she's said in the past, how Alaska's proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, death panels, her inability to name a single newspaper or magazine, her wanting to stand with our North Korean allies, admitting that she and her family used to cross the border into Canada for better healthcare while bemoaning 'Obamacare', blaming the Gulf Oil spill on environmentalists, notes written on her hand during a convention speech, calling out Rahm Emanuel for using 'retarded', but not Limbaugh... the list is nearly endless in her two and a half years on the public stage. She's a stupid woman, Ace. Blood libel is just another in a long, long line of very stupid statements.

Even if your reading of Dershowitz is correct, and it's not, that doesn't make Sarah Palin intelligent and it doesn't make her usage correct. If Dershowitz is saying that Palin used the term correctly, then he's wrong. Blood libel doesn't mean "you aren't allowed to criticize me", which is exactly how Sarah Palin used it. It never has and likely never will.

Hi Ace,

I never said SHE was putting herself into the role as potential president, but mentioned that I am shocked that she is considered a viable candidate. I meant that it is stunning to me that ANYONE believes she is the sort of person who might do it well.

If Sarah Palin is so righteous and brilliant and statesmanlike, why is it that she is so lacking in a characteristic as simple as tact?

I've been sort of out of the loop lately. Life overwhelming attention to current events kind of thing. But I really don't need to see anything more than the 'crosshairs map' and the use of 'blood libel' to understand that she really is an unthinking, uncouth kind of person. Insults from the press and 'liberuls' aside. In this context, it makes the fact that I vehemently disagree with her politics secondary.

She's a boor. A female boor. And I wouldn't support her regardless of what party she belonged to.

They used to say: you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
A sentiment a long time now forgotten.

This entire "blood libel" argument is too silly to waste time on, but I will comment on Palin.

Sorry, Ace, you have misjudged her capabilities to be President. There is something intangible which is lacking in her. There have been some adjectives thrown around in here which feel overly harsh, but a more palatable synonym would suit perfectly.

For example, I don't think she's a boor, but I do think she lacks a necessary level of sophistication to handle that unexpected situation appropriately. 99% of the time, she'd handle herself with grace and dignity. It's that 1% which matters, though.

I don't think she is stupid. However, I do believe she lacks the level of intellect that is required to command respect of other intellects - which is TERRIBLY important in diplomacy.

It isn't really about whether she could carry enough votes or not, it is whether she would be able to handle the job. She wouldn't. I can think of no circumstance where Palin would get my vote for President, and I can't wait for Obama to leave.

Triangulated? Before arriving at that conclusion did you decide that Cheney has credibility worthy of you using him as a source to prove I might be wrong about Obama? Did not think you were a fan of his, go figure.

Nice tone - I am a "chump" because I support Palin.

As I have stated in the past, I speak for myself.

Now, words don't matter. What I write here is not important, all we need is you to tell everyone what I believe. With a skill like that, why do we even need a forum. You can save us all time and effort - just tell everyone what they believe. I thought my ego was big.

I live with passion, emotion and conviction. I love life and I always have fun doing what I do. Thanks for you concern.

Is 'tone' the new buzzword for the month? I only ask ace because it seems to be your newest one I've heard most often in the past couple of weeks.

Edit: Found this while skimming through Google News
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...k-fox-strategy

I accept it...

What I don't accept is...never mind...I doubt I can ever explain it in a way that you understand because you can not accept certain truths about the current political climate. For example - liberal say there was no connection to right-wing "tone" and the AZ murders - but there is a connection to right-wing "tone" and the violence that lead to the AZ murders and it has to change???????

I don't even like Beck. The first few times I saw his show I thought he was a clown. If you can find it, that was my first comment on him. And the only reason I tune him in periodically is because he is a content topic of conversation. Beck has been smart enough to evolve and has toned down his, what I call "clown" act. AS liberals are locked into what was, he is solidifying his popularity with his audience and people who now tune into him for the first time will find he is not the caricature he is made out to be by liberals. Again, liberal miscalculate and over shoot their target.

Sarah Palin is first and foremost a money-grubbing attention whore. Plain and simple. She's the poster child for the mindless devotion Americans seem to have for reality television.
Everything she says and does is calculated to get her words and face plastered all over the national media - to sell books and garner speaking engagements. For her to step up and admit that perhaps it's not healthy to continuosly speak in violence-ridden metaphors would only alienate her from her shrinking base.

I don't believe for a second she'll run for President, except to keep her name in the spotlight. After all, we already know what she thinks of public service jobs.

Wash, rinse, repeat. She is just stupid, right. She just says stupid things. She is just stupid. I got it.

And, you think I have a problem?

I could respond to every one of those issues, including honestly stating when I disagree with what she said or admit it being an error - as I have done - and it would not matter. Wash, Rinse, Repeat - I got it.

He has done televised live interviews as well as having his statements appear in digital and print media, do your homework.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------

And I basically agree. Now the tide has turned for me. I am 100% behind her run for President.

One of the characteristics I like in a leader is, conviction. Palin has conviction to a level I have never seen in a politician - and I love it - it is so refreshing.

The lack of conviction is what I dislike most about Obama. The lack of conviction is why I did not support McCain. It is the reason I will never support Romney. It is the reason why I have respect for a guy like Kucinich while I disagree with him on everything. I am the guy who says, go to universal single payer healthcare rather than an unworkable compromise like Obama-care that is loaded with problems that can bankrupt the country and completely ruin our system. I am the guy who says win the war in Afghanistan or bring our troops home now. Etc. Etc. Etc.

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

Nobody is perfect.

You clearly don't.

Her weaknesses are not intangible. If it were possible to have an honest discussion here on her weaknesses that would be a fair discussion. I am not one who believe people come out of the womb, prepared to be a leader or President. I first look for certain characteristics in people I give my full commitment and support to - one characteristic Palin has is, and her record reflects it, is that she is a winner - she rises to the level to get the job done. She is an over-achiever, scrappy, I love that in leaders. I have a strong bias against pompous overly intellectual empty suits. I live in a real world, not a theoretical text book world.

Kind of hard to win something that is that much of a clusterfuck now isn' it? Saying 'win the war' is easy, actually winning it, not so much, maybe had the war been run properly from the beginning, and a certain former president hadn't had his GPS break down and point him in another direction, things would be better off, or maybe if the country had a president of the entire country, rather than the president of Kabul, say 'win the war or bring the tropps home' all you like ace, leave now and you'll be left with the same thing as before, then what?
Conviction can only get one so far in the political arena, you simply choose to look past Palin's many, many, many faults, and grasp on to her conviction. Obama has conviction, you just don't agree with him, so it's quite obvious that you wouldn't like the man regardless what he did.
I find this hilarious, fuck the intellectuals and their fancy book learnin.

Nice tone. She is ignorant, stupid, uncouth and a whore. Wash, rinse, repeat. Got it.

Is 'tone' a FoxNews thing? I'm honestly curious as you've been on a 'tone' kick the past couple of weeks, seems it's like the McDonalds treat of the week from back in the day.

I tell you repeatedly, that I simply disagree with you when I do and generally leave it at that - why do you insist on trying to tell me what I don't understand?

Commitment is all?

The worst most evil and corrupt leaders in the world were committed.

I don't think that a dogged commitment to an idea is a good thing, in and of itself - especially if it's a bad idea!

I have said bring the troops home, do a search.

Now this is getting interesting. How can I not be insulting...have you read what I wrote???? She has faults, she has weaknesses, she is not perfect. Gee. What do you want????

I guess it is all relative...

If you have no sense of perspective, you don't understand. But, if you know the bio of Bill Gates of Microsoft, you know that there is practical "learnin" and there is theoretical b.s. - it is the practical "learnin" that changes the world. I guess it may take a level of wisdom to understand the difference that is beyond what one may read in a book. But, I know, I know - I got the problem. Right. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Well, I assume that you must take your position on Beck with some bitterness considering that he's somewhat of a political ally of Palin's. They tend to think the same way it seems, even though they may not act the same. You know, how they tend to do things like compare their plight to that of Martin Luther King. I'd guess that's no accident.

And for the record, despite how toned down he may have become, I do think he's somewhat of the caricature you've hinted at. I've seen clips of his show recently. And not much has changed from what I've seen them a year or two ago. It's difficult to take him seriously. I try to laugh at him, except I'm stopped by some automatic moral apprehension. I think it's because people do take him seriously. If he were on the Comedy Central, I think I'd laugh.

Why would I be bitter? Beck's initial "act" was over the top.

Palin has not done what you suggest. MLK nor Palin were in a plight, there were in a fight. Again, you have this victim narrative going real strong in your mind, I would never say MLK was a victim nor would I say that regarding Palin. MLK sought the opportunity to change America. Palin is not going to run from an opportunity to do so. I don't follow Beck enough to comment.

It's easy to say ace, but you have to remember, you guys started that mess, what happens after you 'leave', the exact same thing as before, so, no need for me to do a search.
How can you not be insulting? By acting like a big boy and having big boy conversations, you're supposedly 50, you should know how to have grown up conversations by now, you want to insult me, go right ahead, you'll only make yourself look foolish and immature, so, no skin off my nuts.

I was merely saying 'conviction' can only get one so far in politics, and you chose to grasp on to that and hold on tight, have you read what I wrote????
Of course ace, it's always about everyone else not understanding, Wash, Rinse, Repeat. You need to take your own advice and change the record, I guess your level of wisdom is so far ahead of everyone elses that we all just need to catch up to your practical learnin Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

No.

Evil prevails when good people compromise their convictions.

It's funny. all of the folks in politics I admire most have political conviction, too. very strong political convictions. and intelligence. vision. oh, here's a good one, accomplishments. yet none of them exhibit it in a way that is popularly described as refreshing...like, like, like a cold, refreshing Mountain Dew after an afternoon in the Alaskan frontier shootin' grizzlies.

ack. we are doomed.

If you read what I wrote you would know I agree.

I shared an honest bias that I have and I explained it. the purpose was to share some insight with those who actually read stuff here on why I am such an ardent Palin supporter and why I don't like Obama. I admit the importance of passion and emotion and having leadership who can stir passion and emotion. I admit the symbolism of not backing down and how that moves me. I illustrate why liberals employing their current strategy may back-fire. I admit Palin is less than perfect and I am. I say I have concerns, that she will need a good team. I do all this sincerely and honestly, but i am told I don't mean what I write, that I don't understand "it" and that I have a problem. I got it, trust me. But, just like Palin did, I give you the royal...:thumbsup:...:rolleyes:

Theoretical b.s....wow. I still don't see how people can engage with this person when he says things like this. I understand the desire to try and prove you are right but someone is so far gone that they believe things like this, it's not even worth engaging with them.

I was referring to your dislike for Beck and his ties to Palin.

She evoked the words of MLK in her recent interview with Hannity.

If you're not in a plight, then why fight unless you are an aggressor or opportunist? I don't consider MLK a victim. I wouldn't consider Palin so much a victim if she weren't so insincere in her responses to her critics. Rather than simply come out and fight it head on, she instead comes out with this "blood libel" move.

I'm beginning to think she doesn't have the tact or the wherewithal to address criticism. In a way, she confirms its legitimacy in her failure to do so.

Names?

I respect Kuchinich.
I would have voted for Hilary Clinton over McCain.
I loved the fact that "Voter intent" Murkowski, waged a write-in campaign and won - it changed my whole view point on her.
And I think Mother Teresa actual cared about the people she helped.

I read what you wrote, I just find it amusing an apparently 50 year old man can't have a conversation without wanting to be insulting.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat.:rolleyes:

Why not say you don't think there is a difference? Why not simply do that, I won't make fun of you - I would just share what I think are the differences. But, when you mock me while saying you don't think there is a difference you set the stage for what follows and I am often (more often than I like) immature.

---------- Post added at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:56 PM ----------

If I live to be 100, I won't change. All I will ever be able to do is try to control my nature. The first step is understanding it, and I do. And, I openly tell you and others what to expect, and what I find surprising is how you folks act surprised - like "apparently 50 year old man..."

I will put this into words here, because it is as good for me as it is for anyone who wants to understand different types of human behavior - and I am not saying I am proud - it is what it is.

If you are kicking me in the gut, while saying lets change the tone - my response is not to the request of changing the tone.

If we are kicking each other and you say lets change the tone, but you got in the last kick - my response is not to the request of changing the tone.

If we are kick each other and I got in the last kick and you say lets change the tone, i will stop kicking you but I won't believe you will stop kicking and will be very defensive for a long time.

But on the bright side if you never start kicking me, I will never start kicking you.

I know it is childish, immature, neanderthalish, etc, etc, etc., but armed with the information the real question is what do you do with it? I think Palin has a similar personality to mine, hence I say the constant liberal attacks are the absolute wrong thing to do!

And we're left with another aceism, I know ace, it's up to everyone else, and what they choose to do with it. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Again with 'changing the tone', I'm convinced this is a FoxNews thing, I don't get it here in Canada so I may be incorrect, but I find it amusing you've used it about 6 times or more on this page of the thread alone.

Have a good one, I've got a hockey game to watch.

You had me right up until the hockey game.

Haha, come on Tully, it's the Habs/Sabres on TSN, you know you're sitting on the edge of your seat to find out who wins.

Yea, ya got me... I was lying I really like hockey. Oh and Palin would make a great POTUS.

Well, Palin as POTUS would be interesting for sure, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert would certainly have enough ammo to keep their shows going strong, and it would be interesting to see her interact with other leaders, of course it's probably more amusing from the outside than it is from the inside.

They're busy enough and have enough money. Now is not the time to elect another Bush Jr. type to the oval office. In fact I think electing Palin might be the only thing that would make me miss Bush Jr.

Umm, are the Montreal Canadians nicknamed the Habs? Because I have the Sabres playing them on channel 400 right now.

Agreed, not the time to do that indeed.

Yep, the Canadiens are the Habs, that would be the game I'm watching on TSN.

Sure, I'll give you some names. Just not tonight. I'm not in the mood. Tomorrow. :)

Wow, you managed to quote me and misquote me within a few sentences.
So much for living in the real world.

I said she's an attention-whore. Not exactly the same meaning as "whore."
I never called her stupid or uncouth, either. I'll give you ignorant, though.

Like the media, she's learned that the more fear you instill in people, the less likely they are to think for themselves, seek the truth, or care about real issues. I mean, when you can convince people that $3/hr dishwashers are more dangerous to America than hedge fund managers and CEOs who steal Billions, I'd say there's some stupidity involved, but not on Palin's part. Unless she actually believes what she's shoveling. And I don't think she does.