Thousands rally around Beck to support America turning back to God
 

Beck, Palin Stress God, Country as Tea Party Activists Rally in Washington - Bloomberg


Is this the day that Beck followers (many Tea Partiers?) push forward into the political sphere with their intentions fully bared?

What do you make of this? Is it all show, or is it a milestone in the Tea Party movement?

I'm not sure of the overall message. Do these people want to tear down the separation of church and state, or are they speaking merely of everyday American life?

Is there a religious longing simmering beneath the surface of American politics and society?

I'm not sure I get what Beck is doing here. Can anyone help me? All I can see is two "champions" of the Tea Party movement, Beck and Palin, doing some PR work.

And what do you make of Beck holding the rally today specifically? Coincidence? Intentional?

The Daily Show is exactly how news stations across the country should be reporting on this. Only satire and good investigative journalism can adequately cover what Beck is trying to do.

August 26, 2010 - Michael Bloomberg - The Daily Show With Jon Stewart - Full Episode Video | Comedy Central

I thought the Democrats had shown that America gave a mandate to the government that social conservatism and religious extremist policies wasn't the correct way to go. Then the conservatives dusted off the fiscal conservative message, but Beck is trying to get 'God' back into the GOP again...

I wonder why Jon Stewart doesn't hold a rally in DC and see how many thousands of people would come out for that. Where are the liberal groups now that they actually have the majority?

Astroturf.

I like Glenn Beck. I think he's entertaining but also has some alright ideas. Combining church and state is not one of them.

Nothing is a coincidence. He made it happen on this date for a reason. I don't think there's anything wrong with making it on this date, I like a little extreme competition.

Glenn Beck vs Al Sharpton, who will go too far and cross that line?

Should help his ratings. Won't accomplish anything.

No Tea Party candidate is expected to win, and some like Nevada are even more unpopular with Republicans than Democrats.

I wish someone from either side would get up and start shouting real solutions to our problems instead of slogans and talking points.

I watched some of today's rallies and all I heard was empty talking points. And yes I watched some of Becks and some of Sharpton's. Wasn't impressed by either. Personally I don't care much about whatever Rev. Al's mouthing about and I think Beck's a lunatic. Palin's always good for a laugh- "I raised a combat troop!" Really you gave birth to someone who joined the service! Wow! How big of pedestal would you like? I can't wait for the new season of SNL.

I certainly appreciate the service that Mr. Beck is providing with his "Restoring Honor Rally". Hell, I wasn't even aware that America's military personnel and vets had lost their honor.

While Palin is a Tea Party supporter, Beck does not endorse or align himself with them. Many in attendance were probably fromTea Party groups, but the rally was not a Tea Party event. It's interesting how this has been framed in advance as one.

I was a little put off by the religious theme, but felt the messages were consistently positive, stayed true to the theme -Faith, Honor and Charity. By the end of the rally, they had raised $5.5 million for the Special Operations Warrior Fund. The goal was $600k. An enormous amount of good was done today regardless of your opinion of Beck.

That's true, it's not like he's been the headline speaker at a Tea Party rally, regularly defends them, or has become their de facto leader

Lets not get carried away on who benefits from the donations quite yet.

Small print on the "Restoring Honor" donation page:
I wonder if that includes paying Palin's going rate of at least $100k or paying Beck himself?

To-date, the SOWF charitable pay-out rate is far lower than most charities....something along the lines of 20% of all donations received last year.

But it was a well attended event.... a sea of middle aged and white.....but at least this time they didnt have to use a fake pic to inflate the numbers.

---------- Post added at 12:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------

It appears both parties are passing the buck (so to speak) on how much will actually benefit the SOWF.

An interesting point, Tully.

I also came across this entry about Beck and his modus operandi (with parallels to the Tea Party movement) in the Moral Landscapes blog on the Psychology Today website. And it has some good advice to boot. "Tantrum morality"---I like it. Well, as a concept...not in practice.....

Tantrum Morality: TEA Party and Glenn Beck | Psychology Today

Good article, Baraka. My parents and grandparents are proud "Glenn Beck, the only Mr. Truth" believers. That article explains them dead on.

Logic and reason absolutely destroy people using the "tantrum morality" argument. They don't know what hit 'em.

Psychology Today. Hmm... sounds official. No doubt lab-coats and clipboards were involved. No chance of bias here.

On what does the author base her tantrum analogy... Beck's delivery style? The Tea Party's proclivity for self-reliance and living in the suburbs? They all may seem a bit obnoxious, but that's not really an exclusive trait.

It sounds more like the author just doesn't like Beck or the Tea Party. And with years of unimpeachable clinical academia, she resorts to shoveling a steaming pile of pseudo-psychological propaganda. The article reads like a partisan editorial opinion void of anything resembling a clinical assessment.

While I'm off-put by Beck's increasing evangelical tone, this article is just another drive-by crafted for appeal to another highly malleable herd. As the idiom goes ..."Birds of a feather flock together". More fashionable bits of baseless hatred to feed the sheeples.

Isn't this really more about perpetuating hatred as political fashion? It's like a Daily Show bit all dressed up in an intellectual pose. Laid out for quick-recall when engaging in lively correct-speech banter. Convenient and authoritative-sounding that comes in handy in a pinch... like on "The View".

We should take comfort knowing fresh talking points will be provided without ever having to substantiate for accuracy. The hive will never suspect when repeated often.

Great article, Baraka.

The following entertainment piece does contain some interesting facts:

Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin's unholy alliance - Joan Walsh - Salon.com

right. wandering while snippy through the jurassic park of backwater reactionary ideology that is the populist right today is some act of intellectual heroism? standing up to the corrosion of conformity?
because of course that's what the jurassic park ideological commodity tells you it is. and you, heroic individual behaving in an individually heroic manner the way heroes do as individuals, you do as you're told.

who's running the show?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/op....html?_r=1&hpw

NPR did an interesting (albeit similar) on piece on the Koch brothers:

HERE

Yes RB I read that article this morning but had read a few weeks ago who was actually funding the "grass roots" movement. It's pretty surreal how blind people can be in a herd.

And Ring that's a good piece I had not seen before. Thanks.

So are you saying you don't believe in psychology?

Or maybe it reads like a blog post? Oh, right.... it is a blog post. Regardless, it does sound like you don't believe in psychology.

I'd ask you to critique the post, but, you know, this is a forum, not necessarily a place where much of anything above drive-bys occurs. :rolleyes:

The Daily Show is satire. Beck does delve into satire, but from what I've seen he's not very good at it. The thing about satire, is when people take it at face value...it's a failure.

Nice shot in the dark, otto. Maybe you should practice what you preach.

good god.
gotta love Frank Rich.

My inner imperfect zen moments are fractiously perfect zen.
'Smite' works as a mantra.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/h...y/godsmite.jpg

My current understanding is that these folks believe that the 'separation of church and state' does not currently exist, nor has it ever. It's a lie that they're trying to destroy. America has always been a theocracy, but lost its footing somewhere along the way, and they would like to make it that way again.

Ah, the whole, "America is a Christian nation...."

Glenn Beck has said on his program that he doesn't want it to be a full-fledged theocracy where the government interferes and makes religious choices, but a government that relies on strong Christian values. I'm just telling you what Beck claims, I think it's a load of shit.


It bothers me that Glenn Beck claims to be a Christian, as being a Mormon doesn't make him a Christian.

I know he has said that, but what he's convinced me of is that he believes being Christian is essential to being a good citizen and that being a good Christian citizen means voting for Christian politicians who vote based on their religiously inspired morality.

He wants American not to be an explicit theocracy but an implicit one where, without it having to be written into the rules, Christianity informs every process of government through the beliefs of the governing and governed. What the difference between the two is, I'm not really sure - other than that one is apparently called a theocracy while the other isn't.

I'm not sure whether Mormonism counts as Christianity or not. I'm not sure it matters.

So are you saying you kick puppies for fun? It does sound like you enjoy animal cruelty.

I don't care for anti-intellectualism. I could explain why it's bad, but the people I'm explaining it to never seem to care.

the idiocy continues.

washingtonpost.com


unbelievable.

You could ask for a clarification, you could attempt your own, or you could confuse the issue. Why did you make the choice you did?

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

What? Using morality as leverage to gain influence? That's not so unbelievable. Or were you being sarcastic?

what i was particular amused/appalled by in this latest beckian moment was the ill-treatment meted out to liberation theology. it is such a cartoon. a roundabout form of redbaiting, nothing more.

Honestly at this point I can't believe you can't believe it.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright was right.

it's like we're watching a mirror image of the 30s classic "freaks" happening---you know, the famous scene.



except upside down---not one of us. not one of us.
because that's all beck is saying, really.

Why did I ask you to clarify something that was nowhere to be found in your post?

Guess.

I'm not sure I understand the rules of the game you're playing.

I think I'll sit this round out.

I think the point is, the people are the solution. And more important, a united people are the solution. I think the bottom line for most people who attend this sort of rally is that the government has become far, far too immense and powerful. In a "free" nation, the people must be free to live their lives without over-whelming interference from the government. In fact, that's the main reason this country was founded; to remove the people from the over-bearing control of the government.

So look at what we have now. We an immense government that steals our income/tax dollars and gives it to banks. We have a government that wages war with nations that never attacked us. We have a government that has established a growing welfare sector of dependents, while moving towards bringing all the citizens of this country under its umbrella of control.

Also, Rev. Jeremiah Wright was Wright.

If he was Wong, we'd have another level of racism to contend with.

Beck definitely makes me queasy, but at least he's intelligent. Sharpton just makes me flat out sick. I mean, anyone with half a brain can see right through his pitiful agenda. The only thing he cares about is keeping welfare intact for his constituency. So of course he doesn't want anyone threatening the very government that offers his supporters unlimited handouts.

But I thought this wasn't what the dealio was about. It was about restoring honour, about faith, hope, and charity. Isn't charity about helping those in need? And considering the revolving-door structure of the majority of welfare, I don't see dependency being a problem. But how do you give those in need hope if they fall through the cracks of a capitalist society? How do you expect them to have faith if the system fails them?

The kernel at the core of Beck's purpose here is probably decent....but his agenda, his message, and his delivery, and now his follow-up, are at the very least questionable. What's he on about?

If it's not political, then what is it?

bg -

Trying to explain charity to a Statist is like trying to explain "blue" to a blind person.

Beck's a pitch man who makes money off peoples outrage, the more visible he is the more books he can sell and the more ratings he gets for his show. Really most of what he does is straight out of an entertainment business 101 text book, build an audience and then fuck it for all its worth and what better audience could you find then people looking rally around a voice "that says what needs bein' said"?

He reminds me a bit of the Baptist Pastors that ran around the country holding revivals back in the day. Build a fire and brimstone persona, pound your fist on a bible and scream about America going to hell in a hand basket and how God and good old fashioned church can fix it. BOOM suddenly you're filling stadiums, getting on tv or the radio and making truckloads of money at the expense of people who eat that stuff up.

I don't think Beck really has any other agenda then to make as much money as he possibly can while he's still relevant, weather he actually believes what he says is pretty much irrelevant.

Point taken, Cimarron.

Wes, the difference with other entertainers is that they don't take their entertainment and turn it into a twisted reality show starring the angry white public. Unless I'm missing something.

Well he's not really an "entertainer" in the classic sense but he uses the same techniques to stay visible and make a living. What Glenn Beck is doing is nothing new, it's been done for decades if not more (here in the States at least). A metal band makes money exploiting people who want something loud and angry to listen to, Glenn Beck and his ilk exploit people who think America needs more god, morals, conservative ideas (or whatever he's been supporting lately) and sells it to an audience that wants to hear it. Every time he goes on about America turning its back on God another person turns on his tv show or buys one of his books...and lets face it there is a large portion of our country that eats this stuff up like candy.

I'm not saying its a good thing, it just is what it is and its a pretty big business.

Beck is a professional troll

That's pretty much an insult to trolls, professional or otherwise.

Well, I don't want to take "he's an entertainer" to mean that he doesn't necessarily believe in what he goes on about. Party because I'm not sure I could be convinced otherwise.

It's my understanding that he has a bit of a dark past. Maybe he's overcompensating for something. His demeanour strikes me as one that's overcompensating for something.

it's good to remember this when thinking about people like glenn beck who seem such clowns now.

Naomi Wolf: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps | World news | The Guardian

i'm not making a direct comparison here, but i seem to remember an earlier ultra-rightwing populist who was a bit of a clown and failed painter before some problems arose, some of which were enabled by folk assuming that a clown in appearance is a clown in all situations or even a clown in fact....

understanding of course that nothing in particular rises or falls or changes or doesn't on account of what happens on a messageboard, except of course for the situations within each of the textboxes that we each dutifully fill with words, it's not a good idea to underestimate this populist right.

LOL, Derwood he so is! :D

BG; I don't think anybody really knows what goes on in that head except for Glenn Beck, I have no idea weather he believes what he says (although I seem to remember that before he made it big he was much more moderate...take that for what it is, or not because I have no idea where I heard that or if its even true) What I'm saying, in a round about way he's just filling a role that somebody else would take if he wasn't there because, for better or worse, the views he expresses are quite popular. He obliges by giving the masses a voice and I guess some form of leadership or something to rally around while raking in the money.

BUT to be perfectly honest its been a long night and I don't really remember what my original point was other then he's just another manipulative wind bag that exploits outraged conservatives...I think the ideas he puts out would be there regardless of weather he was or not.

I seem to recall that once upon a time Beck said on the air something to the effect that - he would say anything or would take any side in an argument if paid enough - but I'll be damned if I can find anything about it.

I think this should suffice in it's place to show you how he operates, basically anything to get attention. Shame it's from "The View"

Well Hektore, when you've got books to sell and ratings to increase you need to please as many people as you can and stay as visible as possible don't you?

But anyway, I'm pretty sure I've heard something to the same effect as well but I can't remember where either (seriously wtf?) but I do recall hearing very recently that he used to have a radio show before he got on Fox that was much more moderate and level headed....

...but I don't know, maybe somebody else here can confirm that.

He was. He was much more moderate when he started out, which makes the fact that he is whipping up so much bigotry and misinformation and passing it off to so many people who eat it up like the gospel even more sickening. That makes him a total scumbag, if you ask my opinion. To make a loose comparison, at least paranoid psychotics have the excuse of being paranoid psychotics, know what I mean?

I loved watching Whoopi kick his ass in that clip.

Maybe Beck's rally was a prologue.

It probably is. In American politics there is a pendulum effect. I have little doubt the GOP will win control of the house and we'll start seeing investigative committees looking into every Dem they can. It'll be like 1995-96 all over again. None of this will help any American other the GOP politicians running the circus, but it'll look good in sound and video clips. People will be up and arms over every new accusation and many old ones. Obama's real estate purchase in Chicago, how his wife pays for her clothes and trips, maybe even the birth certificate issue will take up 400hrs of committee time. Who knows. I just hope there's no stained blue dress this time. But I bet it gets ugly and could even see them shutting down the government when they don't get their way. Really that's what the tea party is all about, imo... shutting down the "big" government the far right doesn't like. Of course they'll want to keep the big government stuff they like. You know pay for health care and schools in far off lands but not in the US, cause that there's socialism! Spending billion on smart bombs and blocking anything that would help create smart kids. Hopefully the Dems will grow a pair and call their BS for what it is... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Any why is a Republican majority a bad thing? There's a couple Democrats, Charlie Rangel and Maxine waters that even the Democrats think need investigating. I hope that the Republicans do become a majority so Obama's health care and stimulus programs can be revoked along with my previously mentioned government cuts.

As far as Beck, Limbaugh and other public personalities, they are trolls and entertainers, nothing more. Amusement for the masses. I don't pay attention to them. Just like I don't pay any attention to Michael Moore or some of the wacky liberal websites like truthout or Democratic Underground other than for amusement.

If a few thousand people want to get together for a Beck rally, so what? They are free to express their opinion. I recall a 'million man march' by liberals as well as a bunch of pro-illegal immigration rallies. So what? Everybody's entitled to their opinion.

There are things I like about having a GOP majority in at least part of our government and things I do not like. For example I have little doubt Clinton was forced to do things budget wise that he really didn't want to do. Of course many Dems now claim all the economic good times were due to Clinton. Personally I don't buy that. But I don't think the federal government operates well when one side has too much control. During Bush Jr. the GOP had complete basically complete control and I think that was mess. I mean the day Obama walked in to the oval office there was a 1.?? trillion dollar debt, two wars going on with no real exit option for either and an economy in near collapse.

I'd like to see both sides make a real effort to come together and try to find real solutions. I don't see that happening. I see the GOP sticking with the only answer is cut taxes and the dems haven't come up with anything that will work either. Mainly because the average US voter doesn't want to hear the truth. You can't get elected in the US telling the truth because the truth is freaking ugly at this point. People want to hear we can solve all these problems and it won't hurt you at all. Look at how the iraq war was sold. Anyone who asked "what's this going to costs?" Was told "not going to cost you anything, in fact we're going cut your taxes." "Oh, great let's do it! Do you know where I can get one of those $3 yellow ribbon magnets for the back of my car? I want to support the troops."

As for holding any elected official responsible for BS I'm all for it. I was reading yesterday about some Texas congresswoman who probably gave a bunch of scholarships to family and friends. Investigate that and hold her accountable. I could care less if she/he is GOP, Dem or IND. I think if turn over stones in government you'll find scum, that scum should be exposed.

no one is saying they didn't have a right to assemble or have opinions. we're just saying their opinions are stupid and misguided given the fact that billionaires are bankrolling the movement

False piety by a political evangelist.

Again, I'm not convinced that he doesn't believe in his own message. Is it false piety? Political evangelist, I'll accept, but I'm not sure whether his piety is false.

That's an interesting thought, regardless, the idea that Beck is just playing a role as a career, to make money. It reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's Mother Night, a novel about propaganda and performance, within which Vonnegut wrote in the Introduction, "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."

rb, I like that last bit: "I'm right even when I'm wrong."

Yeah, I think he believes what he says. He's sincere, just as everyone else is. Glenn Beck believes what he says, Hitler believed what he said, and Obama belives what he says. I can't wrap my mind around Beck being false. He's trying to make a ton of money and you coul even say he's exploiting people/faith, but he's not a fake.

Derwood, I'm sure his followers and the "right wing conspiracy" think your opinions are stupid too.

And Tully speaks the truth again with a semi-non-biased post. Too many people are taking stock in entertainers (Beck) and attacking the party they aren't with. All problems and bitching, no solutions.

Let's assume that Beck, Hitler, and Obama don't/didn't believe in what they say/said. In the end, does it matter what they actually believe? I'm with Vonnegut and 9er on this one, we are what we pretend to be/we are what we do.

Glenn Beck "the man" and Glenn Beck "the commentator" could be completely different people. However, if you were to weigh who Beck "the commentator" is and what he does, Beck "the man" wouldn't quite register on the radar.

In the end, there would be no Beck "the man."

Of course and the fallout is the same regardless, he certainly does his part to whip the crowd up to a frenzy but like I wrote earlier weather or not he believes what he actually says is irrelevant. The thing to ponder is weather or not the crowds he preaches too believe what they believe because of Glenn Beck or is Glenn Beck just giving a voice to the crowd...in other words does he really matter?

I wrote about the old timey revivalists earlier, the white tents on the edge of town and a fire and brimstone pastor dressed in a white suit going on about temperance and morality...performing faith healing and such. All that Pastor had to do was advertise his upcoming revival using his weekly radio show, show up, put on a good put on a good performance and collect the nickels at entrance, and then what? Did it matter that he jumped in his Studebaker and blew those nickles on whores and gin? He got the crowd fired up by vocalizing what they believed in and they in turn showed up because they wanted to hear somebody vocalize it. Weather or not the Pastor followed or believed in what he preached was irrelevant, he was just providing a face for an already firmly established movement.

truth be told, i don't particularly care about glenn beck.

what concerns me more is the idea that the republicans will gain seats in the upcoming election cycle. the reason for that is not too far from what tully says above---the right has to my mind nothing coherent to offer in terms of policy--so nothing in terms of a logic that could orient policy--that's fit to or able to address the situation in which the united states currently finds itself. i'm not sure that the obama administration does either because they aren't social-democratic enough. i think there needs to be decisive, directed reallocations of resources to help open up economic options for people, things like the japanese were doing in the 1970s with spot underwriting of sectors of economic activity. unemployment needs to be addressed. the right has nothing to say about that, and have even got in the way of any attempt to address unemployment.

if the republicans get more seats in congress, what i see following is paralysis.
and *that* is the point at which the far right, the tea-party right, becomes dangerous. that is the point at which the koch brothers can buy their way into being very problematic indeed. and that appears to be what the tea-party is about, what it's banking on. but that's not about glenn beck---he's merely a shill who's benefitting materially from being a shill. there are lots of shills. he just happens to have alot of airtime on faux news, your friendly mass-market conservative shill emporium.

and i think the other, consistent problem is that the obama administration---and the "left" or "progressives" or whatever---has failed miserably in making either their own agenda clear or even outlining what they've been doing clearly---and have failed in taking the political fight to the conservatives. abject inexplicable failure in communication warfare. it's amazing. makes you wonder.

"what i see following is paralysis."

A strange chaotic paralysis, watching this empire implode.
It brings to mind the mental state of people who realize their airplane is going to crash.

This isn't entirely true. They'll sell "tax cuts will bolster the economy and fix unemployment" until they're blue in the face. Maybe they'll even sever unemployment benefits to force people to become all bootstrappy.

Well its not entirely unfounded though. Lower taxes can and do attract new businesses which it turn will help with unemployment. If you're going to set up a new factory for your company do you set it up in a place where taxes are so high you already have one foot in the grave before you make your first dollar or do you find a place that gives you the lowest taxes?

Taxes are needed and people bitch way to much about how high they are but being pragmatic about what your charging people and why should be part of any discussion when trying to deal with unemployment.

But the thing is the U.S. already has a relatively low tax revenue per capita. And it's not just corporate tax cuts that the Republicans will likely sell, it's personal taxes too. How low do you need to go to generate economic activity? You can't keep lowering taxes and expect to pay off your runaway debt while continuing to pay for programs people want.

And if you look at those who flock to Beck, they're after the things he's selling: patriotism, militarism, and old American values. It's basically a resistance against change. The world is changing, it's changed: globalization, multiculturalism, instant global communication, gay rights, reproductive rights, rising BRIC dominance, the establishment of social democratic systems, etc.

These things scare the shit out of Old America. These Christian conservatives are flocking to Beck because they are mobilizing to protect what they feel is threatened. Unfortunately, much of what they're protecting are likely old ideals best left behind in the 20th century. Much of what they're protecting may have already died, if they're not in their death throes as we speak.

Republicans who take up these values---who essentially borrow a page out of Beck's playbook---will likely win votes. Tax cuts will only be one part of it.

There's is some fact to that but there's also a lot of smoke being blown around -

Oil begs don't raise our taxes

If we could just get rid of the tax shelters and actually tax businesses and the wealthy instead of giving far too many of them hand outs, get rid of a shit load of pork and cut some military spending we might be on the road to balancing our books.

But as Bush Jr once said in a speech "you can't raise taxes on the rich, we all know what they do they find loopholes and won't pay anyway." Not a direct quote but it's close. Guess it never dawned on his cheering admires that it might make more sense to close the loopholes then ignore them.

Well the thing about taxes are they need to be competitive on a state to state basis or they just become more of a burden anything else. When State A has taxes that are light years lower then State B people are going to move to State A. Its too easy to just move somewhere else and pay lower taxes then it is to support higher ones. I might even go so far as to say a lot of our states and cities are dying because they aren't keeping them competitive. But anyway I'm so ignorant of the economy and money I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

Anyway I agree with you to an extent BG. The problem comes when it seems like people don't want to make any kind of distinction between what was good about the old days and what was bad. Just changing for the sake of keeping up with our global neighbors or just to be modern isn't a good thing either. The US has always been a little different from the rest of the world and I'm glad there are people who are helping keep the balance between whats worked for us and what needs to change. In a perfect world the arguments will keep coming and we'll keep working on finding a nice balance that's best for us.

I may hate some of these people with a passion but they do help keep us from going too far in one direction with out stopping to ask if its the right move.

Well, that is the definition of conservatism. Traditions and values with little change, which is a tough product to sell in this day and age. Beck is a likeable guy and does a good job at selling strong, far right conservatism. Basically, you agree with Beck if you yourself are a hard right conservative. Not all right wingers agree with him (me).

Isn't being honest part of traditional values?

It should be Tully but I think that ship sailed in the world of politics long ago.

I agree Pearl you just aren't going to get a thing out of what Glenn Beck is about unless you have a pretty deep rooted conservative outlook on the world...deep, deep, far right conservative outlook.

I can be conservative on a lot of issues but like you I just can't get on the same page with him most of the time...about 97.8379% of the time.

Yes, but to different people there are different definitions of honesty. Beck thinks he speaks the truth, whether he actually does or not is irrelevant to the question of honesty.

How do you know this? Because of the crocodile tears? Because I'm not convinced in the slightest.

You think his public persona is different than what he really feels and is like in private? I don't think so. It seems to me he really gets behind and is passionate about what he does. The "right vs wrong" of Glenn Beck is up for debate, I'm only saying he's 100% real, even if he is bat nuts crazy.

He exagerates and stretches himself out a bit to fulfill the entertainment part of what he does, but to me he's legit.

I think this is the true, I don't think he'll ever offer up any ideas or solutions to any problems, that would lead to specifics which would get messy and ultimately turn some people away. he's all about gaining the maximum pitchfork and torch waving masses to hand over to the repugs.

yeah, until they catch him in a hotel room with his face white with coke and a Filipino ladyboy plugging his emergency exit.

I wish Bill Buckly were still around, I hate this fake lowbrow country boy crap.

beck is working to help draw the boundaries around a new american volksgemeinschaft.
he is basic to the neo-fascist project that's at the centre of the tea party.
but hey, don't believe me and think he's just a clown or waste your time wondering about something as vaporous as "sincerity"--i mean, please..you cannot possibly be that naive...

Well, apparently this has been brewing in Beck's circle for a while now. The clip below has a strong parallel to Beck's rally, yet it was posted a year ago today. It appears that turning back to God is essential for saving the republic from the evil changes wrought by the godless socialists, radical Marxists, and "Darwin atheists" (not to mention the eugenics of Planned Parenthood):

Lets face it the Glenn Becks of the world and the "Glenn Beck philosophy" has been around for ages in one form or another and in much uglier packages wielding a lot more power. What makes this guy so special? Because he's the rights newest pop star? America has survived much worse then Glenn Beck and his traveling tea party circus, you're giving him a lot more credit then he deserves. Glenn Beck will drop this Tea Party stuff the minute the next Republican golden boy shows up at the GOP convention and back the GOP hard down the stretch like the vast majority of the right will...Do you think Fox is going to let him keep that nice afternoon time slot when he's backing candidates nobodies ever heard of or plans to vote for?

That sounds awfully familiar... Hmm... yes it almost sounds like "that depends on what your definition is is."

When he goes on the radio and makes up a story about Barbara Walters and Whoopi Goldberg he's being dishonest... he lying. And when he got called on it he really had no defense.

Or are you saying he's so delusional he believes the lies he tells therefore he's not actually lying?

Personally I think he knows it's bull shit. Here's a link to a video showing Beck using Vick's vapor rub to make himself cry. The person that sent it to me said something like "here's proof Beck's tears are all an act." I watched and my first take was no this is beck doing photo shoot for some promo and and he hamming it up. But as I watched, about half way through, he states some thing like "it's not working well, my eye are too use to it." I think it's seriously possible he using it all the time, don't think your eyes could get usued to vicks in a one day, one time photo shoot.

He tells people what they want to hear and those people think "yea, that's right."

And I'm saying, his sincere-to-the-point-of-tears act notwithstanding, I don't have anything like the facts I'd need to come to any such conclusion.

Look: we've watched men tirade passionately against gay rights on the floor of congress, and then go solicit gay sex in airport bathrooms. And you'd have watched their firey conservative rhetoric and said, well agree or disagree with what he's saying, there's a guy whose convictions are behind his words. And then before long he's getting a blow job in a bathroom stall. So.

I think Beck is actually "conservative", whatever it is he means by that. I think the full agenda of the "conservative" "movement" is completely unclear to 99% of those who consider themselves members. I think the people he's shepherding around aren't aware of the depth of the pockets they're lining. I think Beck is in bed with some MAJOR players in business and the media, and he's voicing their agenda to an audience of suckers. That's what I think.

The distribution of political philosophy is completely dominated by media outlets.

What has the media sold to us as 'reality' in the last decade or so? I'd call it sensationalism. And now sensationalism is what motivates people to buy media content - whether it is a book, or a news broadcast, or a candidate. Sensation-alism makes you feel good, it's entertainment. Suffice it to say, I think a lot of people didn't notice that the same techniques being used to sell them 'reality shows' started being used to sell them politics...particularly after 9/11.

At least this is the idea that is swimming around in my head this morning...kind of makes sense to me, though.

Therefore, I am about as convinced of the sincerity of Glen Beck's show as I am of the sincerity of the ladies on 'Real Housewives of New Jersey.' Which would be very little.

You should make this thread in the Economic forum. This is where economics, theory, and local/federal government all come together.

And it's not too pretty.

QFT

The people with whom you disagree are making the sky fall.

AUS isn't there already a thread over there on taxes...besides, I really don't have that firm of a grasp on the issue it would work a lot better started by somebody else. :)

On the topic of the thread. The media has changed a lot over the last decade or two and sensationalism does sell, I would imagine that's why groups like the Tea Party and people like Glenn Beck get are so much more visible then they would have been in previous decades. People like turning on the tv and being outraged by Glenn Becks latest antics or in turn shouting "amen!". As long as he stays controversial and embraces all things fringe while there is precious little else going on in Republican land he'll keep getting big ratings, attract large crowds and be happy to do it...I'm sure Rupert Murdoch doesn't mind either.

Anyway whats the big concern? They've always been around, heck the Tea Party values (whatever I can gather about them anyway) used to just be mainstream conservatism and probably shared somewhat by everybody in mainstream America. Doesn't it speak volumes that in 2010 those same values are now seen as right wing fringe and dismissed by large numbers of people.

Thank you. I'm glad it makes sense to you, too.

And it occurred to me on the way to the grocery store that this new and delicious way of framing politics for easy public consumption could be directly responsible for the feeling of political empowerment so many, um, (I'm trying to be kinder in my choice of words today) so I will say 'simple thinkers' are feeling these days.

There really is no way of being nice about it, though - doesn't mean I hate them or wish them harm. But I will always be a snob in favor of openness, tolerance and intellectualism and don't want much to do with a society that doesn't favor them.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that we're surrounded by anti-intellectualism even today. If you consider it globally, it's everywhere, ranging from national news media, religious fundamentalism, and populist surges to authoritarian states such as China and Iran, authoritarian social concepts such as nationalism and patriotism, and, at worst, fascism.

a small string of things from hannah arendt which seem germaine:

well, that leaves you with a warm, fuzzy feeling all around.

More from the wisdom of Glenn Beck:

Beck: "We have been setting up re-education camps. We call them universities" | Media Matters for America [embedded video]

According to him, universities are "just as dangerous with indoctrination of our children" as terror groups.

Warm and fuzzy indeed.

The fungus on the surface thing is an apt description of what Beck does. I watched much of his Sept. 1st show, and it was incredible how much he parsed things and removed context to fit his message, not to mention cherry-picking items and making them sound more significant and widespread than they really are. But he never really analyzed anything. He just presented "evidence" and said, "See? I'm right."

It's like the satire of a Paul Verhoeven movie come to life. (Think Robocop and Starship Troopers, not Showgirls)

I saw this episode and I was thinking the exact same thing you were. There's no doubt he tailors sound bites and "news" to fit into what he wants. Glenn Beck is just a small representation of the entire media being deceptive.

Jesus Beck, pulling the old left wing universities are destroying our children card? What did you do pull that out of a Newt Gingrich neo-con handbook form 1992? I think he's running out of material. Isn't there something about Obama being a drug lord from Kenya who sells crack and Muslimnomics to the sheeple in an attempt to poison our perfect Christian country? Surely he must be hard at work finding the out of context sound bites to prove it.

Gettin' lazy Glenn.

Beck's message is simple:

• Conservatism good/progressivism bad
• Capitalism good/socialism bad
• Nationalism good/internationalism bad
• Religion good/intellectualism bad
• Christianity good/non-Christians bad
• ...

The pattern is easily crafted. Just be sure to keep it black and white and covered in smoke and confused with mirrors.

Yeah its about crafting that typical us vs them garbage people like him are so good at, its the same shtick that kept Rush on the air through the Clinton years...create an enemy and then harp on it until people are incensed over the dumbest of issues.

"How dare them libruls wanna put veggies in our school lunches!!! Communism I say!"

What annoys me about people like Beck though is the hyperbole he uses the process. Look at the story above. Somebody probably could build a reasonable argument that universities are too liberal and not doing enough to craft conservative thinkers (sounds like a bunch of hooey to me but whatever). But not Beck and his peers, instead he throws around terms like "re-education camps" and "indoctrinating our children" to sensationalize what should be nothing more then a trivial discussion about politics. Keep 'em angry and separate 'em over every issue and they'll keep tuning in in droves.

This is a good point, but you don't go far enough in your criticism. Beck isn't merely glossing over potential problems with the university system, and he isn't merely using terms normally associated with the practices of authoritarian regimes. No...he's comparing universities directly with terrorist groups and Iran and North Korea. It's a blatant and psychotic attack on universities and the ideas encapsulated in intellectualism.

It's bullshit, and likely a knee-jerk reaction to a comment regarding the public education surrounding health care, but that doesn't matter. When all is said and done, many of his viewers will accept his arguments that universities are evil entities that seek to destroy the free and righteous minds of their children. I guess it's an argument for home-schooling and special universities set up by Christian ministries.

On the surface, it's fear mongering. Its net effect is fear mongering. The universities in America are just as bad as terrorists groups! Wake up, America! Your freedom is at risk! The Marxists in power are destroying the republic!

How long before he starts broadcasting an actual call to action?

Thats a good point BG, truth be told I didn't listen to the piece because I always thought the argument was bullshit and I've heard it a million times anyway...didn't get the whole gist of exactly what he was conveying. Yikes.

I think it is important to keep Glenn Beck in perspective though. No self respecting conservative thinker is going to buy that argument for a second and I would wager a percentage of his audience wouldn't really take it that seriously either. Its one thing to spew this garbage on tv, which is really nothing new but going over the line and calling people to action (past the odd protest) would be pretty extraordinary. That's why I think his level of sincerity is important here. Glenn Beck, in my opinion just wouldn't go that far because he knows where his bread is buttered (just like Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell) they always seem to stop just short of calling for any kind of action because truth be told that would be the end of the gravy train.

What does scare me however is how ridiculous stories like that register with the right wing fringe nut jobs out there who take this stuff very seriously and I do wonder if the Glenn Becks of the world aren't going to be partly responsible for helping create the next Timothy McVeigh. While he won't be leading the charge the blood could certainly be his hands when one to many of these pieces wind up in the mind of the wrong person or group.