This is a case of nonviolent protest through civil disobedience in order to bring attention to the humanitarian disaster in Gaza.

Generally speaking, up to 80% of Gazans live in poverty, and Israel places severe restrictions on what they can import. It's crippling the economy (and education and development) to a degree that makes Cuba look like it belongs to the G20.

What's the point of getting through the blockade? To give aid to Gaza or to bring attention to what Israel is doing? Is one a product of the other or do they have a specific mission?

These are protesters, not military. The goals are several and they'll take what they can get. If they can get the aid through, that's a victory. If they can't get the aid through, but bring international attention to the (illegal) blockade of Gaza, that's a victory. If no one on the flotilla is murdered by IDF forces illegally boarding a Turkish vessel in international waters, it's a victory.

In order:

1. Then they need to ask Hamas to not refuse the aid, or if they dont refuse it to not steal it and sell it for weapons.
2. It's not an illegal blockade, it's also not just an Israeli blockade.
3. Out of all the ships only the one being operated by a group that Turkey themselves banned from the country for being a terrorist front group has any sort of violence and the only people "murdered" were the ones that immediately attacked the boarding party with everything from machetes to molotov cocktails. When someone boards you with paintball guns and you try to kill them it's not murder if they shoot you, and it doesn't magically become murder just because they're a good shot either.

That being said I'm going to say something that won't matter because after all that I'm still usually instantly pegged as some kind of perfectly pro-israel jihadist: Israel is still grabbing the idiot ball with both hands and firmly refusing to let go. The actual list of what is blockaded needs to settle down, and the inane shit needs to be off of it. On top of that they could've easily just waited until the IHH ship got a little closer to do the same thing, and they really need to let Egypt and Jordan do more talking whenever they're actually all together on something. They also need to start cracking down harder on the settlers, everyone basically hates them already for being psychotic racist wingnuts so they can probably get away with it.

i don't have to even particularly like the Israeli govt all that much to know that it's still a lot better to have Israel on top than a group that actually sticks the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (and freemasonry... and the rotarians... and the french revolution... and so on) in their official govt charter along with an explicit call for genocide. Hell the Palestinians (at least in the west bank) dont like Hamas very much either, the problem is hamas is still being backed by Iran in order to keep the region destabilized and they've got a crapton of weapons and no real issue with using their own as cannon fodder.

Look, it would be great if Hamas didn't refuse the aid, but that's not the only point. If Hamas foolishly want so alienate their allies, let them. That's their decision. Asking them, though, is about as useful as talking to a wall.
Collective punishment is illegal under the Geneva Conventions. The blockade is actively preventing the goods Gaza's 1.5 million residents require.

There were no Egyptian troops storming the flotilla and shooting unarmed humanitarians.
You need to check your facts. Like, all of them. The flotilla, the site of the murders of the humanitarians, was a Turkish vessel, inspected by Turkish authorities before it left to ensure it wasn't carrying arms. The "machetes" used were kitchen knives from the galley, and the supposed Molotov cocktails? The only evidence they were used is the IDF soldiers found glass bottles (in a crate, unbroken) on the flotilla. And as for the paintball guns? The IDF forces also had sidearms with life ammunition, obviously.
:rolleyes: Poor Shadowex.

You need to check your facts about them being unarmed and maybe find out about the soliders who got injured in the "peaceful resistance", maybe you saw the doctored photos from routers where they removed a weapon for instance.

The legality of the blockade has to do with the status of gaza, if it is part of Israel then they have the right to blockade themselves of course. If it was its own country and since it is having armed conflict against israel by sending over rockets again they can blockade it. The only real issue is the unique status that it currently is.

As far as goods being blocked from going in, they have warehouses of goods that Hamas has let in and has not distributed they have trucks delivering even more goods daily that Hamas has not let in. When Israel saw potential food issues they increased trucks for food, of course you can guess who controls distribution, in case you can not it is Hamas.

And by the way who killed 4 people yesterday including a pregnant woman to derail peace talks, if you guessed Hamas again you would be correct.

Actually I was going by the multiple surprisingly good resolution videos of the boarding that've been released, as well as the undoctored photographs clearly showing just how "nonviolent" the "humanitarians" were when a commandos with paintball guns roped down. That the commandos had backup weapons doesn't mean shit since they weren't using them until well after being attacked with deadly force.

You can insist on using political trick-wording all you want, it does not change that the blockade was a legal action undertaken by Egypt and Israel.

I suppose next you'll be beating the "disproportionate force" dead horse and insisting... what exactly? Nobody is ever very clear on what IS proportionate force, just that every engagement where Hamas forces don't win was a use of "disproportionate force". Does it mean Israel should automatically ensure they take the same number of casualties as Hamas? Perhaps it means every military action should be a stalemate?

I think the fundamental concern is the humanitarian crisis while Gaza remains under siege.

I agree it would be nice if Hamas would take steps to accept a lot of the aid that they will not allow in to Gaza. Would been nice if the Palestenian authority under Arafat did not have billions in aid vanish. Would be nice if they did not hide weapons and rockets in schools and hospitals, and admittedly hide in civilian homes. Would be nice if they would begin to even accept the possibility of a dual nation resolution and not try to undermine it by using a terrorist attack to kill 4 people including a pregnant woman. Yes would be nice if Hamas understood the word Humanitarian

What is all this aid that Hamas is blocking? What the hell does Arafat have to do with the current blockade? More importantly, what does any of that have to do with a blockade that prevents even notebooks and chocolate from entering Gaza?

It would be nice if Israel did and didn't do stuff too. Truly.

The Geneva Conventions are not political trickery, but rather a model for international relations between nations. They set a legal and ethical standard by which countries should be judged. Israel and Egypt, though more Israel, are responsible for rationing what goods may enter Gaza to an extreme where starvation and abject poverty are the norm. Innocent people are suffering, ShadowEx. Unless you can somehow demonstrate that all of the 1.5 million people in Gaza are directly responsible for rocket attacks and such, it is collective punishment, and as such is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

Then according to your logic it is impossible to accomplish ANY kind of security or blockade ANYWHERE because everything everywhere will by your definition be "collective punishment".

Yes, it really would. But real people don't have to be absolutely black and white like Willravel is insisting. It's a perfectly reasonable position to disagree with Israel on many things, such as some of the more inane shit with the blocked items list, while still being overall in support of them and against Hamas. The trick here is that Israel is an actual westernized country with real elections and diverse politics (they even have a Hamas member on the knesset) while Hamas is so flanderized that people think I'm reading them a bad comic book villain-state when all I do is read their own govt charter.

Wanting Israel to stop doing things I consider wrong is the same as wanting America to stop doing things I consider wrong. If they do it then its just another change in a changing and changeable free nation.

Wanting Hamas to stop doing things I consider wrong is like peanut butter that's made of frozen fruit juice that's been blended. It's just not the same thing anymore, the fundamental defining factor of the identity has been lost. Hamas that doesn't demand genocide and consider anyone not a part of their crusade to be another target just isn't hamas anymore.