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Race/Gender Tax?
So, I read an editorial this weekend of someone who contends that the new tanning bed tax is, at its essence, a race/gender tax - a tax levied directly on a particular race/gender. Apparently, almost 99% of their customers are from a single race. Furthermore, the industry sales statistics show that it effectively targets a particular gender, with 98% of the clientele being of one gender.
The question for discussion is whether a tax of this nature is unfair or even in violation of the law? So, here's my opinion: I honestly don't know if it is against the law. I don't think the tax was written with the intent to target a race/gender, but a side effect of the legislation is that it does target race/gender. I can't think of another example of an excise tax which effectively targets/race gender - but I'd bet they exist. Can anyone think of others? I do know that it is a usage tax, and one can avoid the tax by simply not participating in the activity. It's essentially the cigarette tax. But every race/gender combination smokes, unlike here. My inclination is to shrug since I don't use the service (I'm not in the demographic either), but what if I did use it? I suppose I would want this assertion to be...what's the best word...vetted, perhaps? So, pasty girls unit! |
Hm, interesting premise.
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I can't see how it can be viewed as a tax intentionally singling out Caucasian women almost exclusively, when the tax is tied into health care and you have damning stats describing the health hazard of using the device. It's not that they're taxing yoga, toy dog breeds, designer bottled water, expensive sandwiches, detox programs, and sea salt, etc., all at the same time... you know, like a group tax singling out the things Caucasian women like. :rolleyes: |
It's a sin tax just like that on booze and cigarettes. Here, we know you want to do it; here, we know you're going to do it despite it being bad for you; here, we're going to tax you more for it.
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I'm also trying to avoid stereotyping by trying to create some other comparison, like "What if they put a tax on <insert stereotypically purchased item here>?" I don't know, what if they put a 10% tax on Canadian flags? :D |
Well, I'm okay with taxing the hell outta white people.
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I can't think of anything similar to this tax on tanning beds. The problem is that you don't need to be a white female to "benefit" from them. I'm sure plenty of men use them. I'm sure plenty of Asians like tanning too. It could be argued that black people living in northern regions should use tanning beds to help them produce adequate levels of vitamin D. Sorry for not taking this more seriously. I think the implication is itself a bit silly. Can you think of any other situation like this one? I mean, we can get into gender-biased pricing. But I can't think of discriminating taxation. |
This would be a great nonsense thread: "How to tax X social group..."
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I like the idea of a bottled water tax, most of it is municipal water anyway. |
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The print editorial I read was from a manager of a salon who said that 99% of his customers were white and 98% were women. These percentages were based on sales numbers, but the writer didn't specify if the customer wrote these demographics in when signing up or whether the clerks recorded them based on a visual evaluation (admittedly flawed). The numbers were recorded for the purposes of targeting a market in advertising. The point was that it really was that biased for this owner. Since you brought it up, suppose a particular hair relaxer was known to be carcinogenic and the government added an additional 10% tax on it. This tax would almost exclusively target black women. Do you think there would be outrage? ACLU, Jessie, and Al? Does it really matter who the demographic is? Perhaps this is a first, where the tax was for the effects of the device but the device happens to be discriminatory by nature. ~shrug~ if it's a non-starter thread, let's just let it crawl down the list so y'all can get back to the pressing matter of who is worse -Obama or Bush.:thumbsup: |
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I'll say, when I read about the tax on tanning salons, it did strike me as somewhat... specific. I guess in principle it's no different from taxing cigarettes special at retail, and presumably somebody could produce a study indicating a high health care cost associated with the tanning industry.... I dunno. I'm not sure I'm for this particular tax. To make the argument that it's sexist/racist, though, is just dumb. Now would be a good time to invest in bronzer manufacturers. Sales in Jersey alone are going to SKY ROCKET! |
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Just to be clear, no one is suggesting that the tax was created ~to~ target a race/gender - only that the tax ~does~ target a race/gender...and I've seen you in T.E. back in the day - you could use a little bronzer on that ass of yours. Just sayin'... |
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I dont think so. |
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Equal protection is certainly broader than public accommodations and employment discrimination. And I am not saying the connection can be made in this case, I don't have the knowledge of case law to say that, but I do know the tax has a disparate impact and is discriminatory of its face - the legality question is beyond my knowledge at this point. |
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It all comes down to intent. The intent is to offset or otherwise reduce the cost of the harm that comes out of using tanning beds. It's not a "tax to penalize or otherwise control the behaviour of white chicks." |
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http://rivercitymud.files.wordpress....wi-0907-lg.jpg |
My brother uses tanning beds. Just because one salon's clientele is 98% female doesn't mean that is the nat'l average. I would guess the split to be much higher than that overall.
I agree with the tax. If tanning beds can't be banned. By sheer coincidence, I read just recently about the inflated occurrence of melanoma among people who use tanning beds. They are serious numbers. |
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Ummmm, you mean orange chicks. BG - you are an amazingly wise and fair soul BTW! :thumbsup: |
Are alcohol taxes in Utah an anti-mormon tax since the majority of people who drink in Utah are not mormon?
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I'm thinking discrimination for other reasons. I can understand the reasoning behind the tax on tanning, however isn't tanning the only unhealthy activity to specifically be taxed in this bill? As mentioned before alcohol and tobacco are taxed already but not specifically due to their impact on the nation's health care cost. Should they be? I see no reason, why not. If tanning is, why not beer and cigarettes? To take it a step further, what about obesity? Certainly smoking and obesity have far greater health care implications than tanning. So why is this practice being discriminated against, and not others.
Will there be taxes levied on people tanning at beaches, at swimming pools or in their back yards? |
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http://images-cdn01.associatedconten.../300_17539.jpg Quote:
Are you suggesting that the government is looking out for the safety of white women and ignore the safety of black women? It is a rhetorical question. Quote:
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I don't think that the white lawmakers are very attuned to the dangers of hair relaxers. And if they were, they would likely attempt to attack them as well. |
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A modern-day conservative will tell you that any tax is too much and a 0.01% increase will cause the end-times. An economist will tell you different. Consumer behavior follows very predictable responses to price increases. There's LOTS of science behind pricing. For instance, you'll notice there's no cigarette black market, at least not on any appreciable scale. I've heard of trafficking operations moving cartons from low-tax to high-tax states, but it's not like that's widespread, and the profit margin is in the pennies. There aren't smoke-easys in back rooms where people are craftily evading the tobacco sin tax, you know? And yet smoking is way way down. Education has a lot to do with that, but for me, it was the ever-growing cost of my drug that had me quit (10 years ago this month, thank you thank you!). All that said, I really don't want to go on record as "for" this particular tax issue. Seems like there are better places to target a tax bump than this. I say that with nothing else particularly in mind--it just seems a little targeted and arbitrary. I understand the justification for it I guess, it just seems like an awfully specific thing to point a tax at. Quote:
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It is a regressive tax that impacts low income smokers far more than high income smokers...and it is one of the few regressive taxes I support because it provides health care to kids of those low-moderate income smokers. |
i dont really see a problem with a tax on people who intentionally put a strain on the public health system.
If you're going to reduce the governments bottom line by sucking up precious health care resources, they're going to claw it back from somwhere. |
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Women look good pale. It's the guys that can justify improved opposite gender relations in their 20's & 30's against having skin cancer in their 50's or 60's. |
It's going to be easiest if I number these:
1) There most definitely is a black market in cigarettes. I just completed a literature review on cigarette taxes and black markets for a well-known consulting firm, and I can assure you that they exist. Because it is an inherently difficult thing to track, there isn't a consensus on how large it is. Reasonable estimates vary from 4% to 20% of cigarettes consumed within the United States. So it is possible that sin taxes can result in a black market for a good. 2) However, this doesn't mean the tax is bad, nor that it will necessarily result in a black market. Anyone who believes that this tanning bed tax will result in a black market is on something. First of all, like almost all luxury products, the demand elasticity for tanning beds is far from inelastic (and very, very different from addictive goods like alcohol and cigarettes). People will either substitute (spray tan, natural tan), simply pay a little more, or (best of all, given the health implications) quit altogether. Secondly, black markets typically develop for items that are easy to smuggle (cigarettes) or have massive demand despite being "visible" (prostitution). Even if you prohibited all tanning beds, as long as you enforced the law I doubt a black market it tanning salons would appear. Third, most of the time people who create taxes aren't complete idiots. They have likely figured out (or rather, public health economists have figured out and convinced them) that the tax will probably reduce demand, raise revenue, and prevent some cancer. All to the good. 3. I'm not a lawyer, but I highly doubt that this could be construed as a racially biased tax. And there are many taxed activities which break down sharply on gender lines. 4. As someone mentioned, I highly doubt tanning salons as a whole are 98% women and 99% white, or whatever. That's just the experience of one single salon. Added: 5. Craven: Obesity cannot be taxed. Obesity is a health condition. Tanning on a beach is a private, non-economic activity. Only goods and services can be taxed. Alcohol and tobacco are goods. Tanning salons offer services. And yes, alcohol and tobacco most certainly are taxed in part because of public health concerns (see Ontario's failed attempts at taxing cigarettes in the early 90s). Even if they weren't, there's no reason they couldn't be - there is nothing in the constitution to prevent taxation of goods or services for public health reasons. Even now, cities such as New York have instituted a soda tax expressly for the purpose of reducing consumption for health reasons. |
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Okay, so here is a study from the American Association of Pediatrics. It shows (if I am reading this correctly) that only 10% of the boys and girls surveyed (ages 12 to 18) reported using a tanning bed. Of those who reported using it, girls were 6 times more likely to report using it (14.4 vs. 2.4) than boys. Only one study, and the sample is rather small and it required the subjects to report usage. Perhaps boys are less likely to report usage?
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It also raises taxes on those making < $200K/$250K per year |
Those of you decrying the "nanny state" should realize that if it were truly the case, then the beds would be banned along with a host of other potentially harmful health & beauty products. (Besides, where were some of you "nanny staters" when Buy American was sold to you?) No, this is a tax to offset the real cost of cancer that arises out of regular use of tanning beds. It's documented. Any dermatologist worth his or her weight in salt will tell you that a suntan is a sign of skin damage, and that this damage has a "memory" (i.e. it never goes away).
I don't know enough about hair products to know whether some of the potentially harsher ones require a professional to administer them, but it is, indeed, a separate issue. People who pay for such luxuries as tanning aren't about to be dissuaded by this tax. It's like many people with the price of gasoline. It might stay relatively high, but that doesn't dissuade many from rolling around in SUVs and V6es. |
If government wasn't involved in healthcare, it wouldn't need to raise taxes to cover its costs for treating people. (No need to respond.)
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So, the tax is 10% on these beds. How much does it cost to go to one? How much are we talkin' here? Anyone? |
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I think that most of those who stopped buying them weren't likely among the affluent. What I'm getting at is that when certain things become more expensive, core customers tend to take it rather than walk away. I think this will be the case with the tanning crowd. |
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I've also never bought into the 'buy American' mantra either. I'll give consideration to American products only where the quality is at least as good as whats made elsewhere. |
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Every other civilized country in the world has some form of single payer health care. In some cases, health care is entirely a government function. America is literally alone in having health care be a completely private-enterprise proposition. Here's my question (and it really is a question, I really don't know the answer): ARE there libertarians in those countries? Are they protesting about the socialization of their countries' health care industries? Or is this whole "keep your government hands off me" thing an American phenomenon? |
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As for other libertarians in other countries? I don't know. It isn't like AA where there's a clubhouse and a secret handshake. It's a set of principles and values. I'm certain there are people with the same principles and values in other countries who properly distinguish the role of government vs. society in people's lives. |
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For the record, I don't view sin taxes as indicative of a nanny state; I view them more as taxes to offset costs that arise out of the use of the taxed products. Call it "socialized" if you will, but I wouldn't call it "nanny state." The public is still free to consume these things, often in excess. |
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