Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community (https://thetfp.com/tfp/)
-   Tilted Politics (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-politics/)
-   -   ObamaWatch: Get your Reagan and Bush the Elder FOIA requests in asap (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-politics/144430-obamawatch-get-your-reagan-bush-elder-foia-requests-asap.html)

tisonlyi 01-22-2009 04:18 AM

ObamaWatch: Get your Reagan and Bush the Elder FOIA requests in asap
 
Executive Order -- Presidential Records

Bush #43 refused to publish the presidential records of Reagan and Bush #41 when he took office... Obama has rescinded Bush's executive order.

Hear that? That's the sound of a million muck-rakers gearing up for harvest.

Brace yourselves for the flood.

ASU2003 01-22-2009 05:33 AM

I'm wondering how this will play out as well. I'm kind of wondering what there is and if this will be too much of a distraction from dealing with future issues instead of focusing on the past.

roachboy 01-22-2009 05:49 AM

this is an interesting move.
i think there are several ways to think about it, several scenarios this could set up.

a) the first that comes to mind concerns the s&l scandal, which was more swept under the carpet than addressed. i can't help but think that the lending practices that caught up with derivatives trafficking are a result of practices put into place in that context that were already manifestly problematic. so there's a sense in which access to more infotainment on this may provide a denser context for thinking about the present nested debacles--by for example providing clearer indications of neoliberal-created systemic problems.

b) i think this is important as a way of changing the data-frame for thinking neoliberalism more generally. behind the blah blah blah about "free markets" and behind the 19th century social darwinism that was then and has been until recently of a piece with it, there has been a steady stream of criminal action---about which more information is preferable to less. this in part is a version of the above: the right has been ideologically centered on a wholesale revision of the past, and that reframing of the past has enabled the sustained idiocy of their policies to acquire a certain veneer of logic. demystifying that process of erasure/revision and demystifying the realities behind the blah blah blah of conservative/neoliberal double=speak seems to me a necessary component of moving out from under it. history matters. even the right knows this--that's why controlling information has been so important to them.

3. i have long thought the reagan period particularly loathesome.
i saw its actions in nicaragua as a perfect allegory for the reality concealed behind its framing of itself.
i am quite interested in the release of information about the contras.
it has always seemed odd to me that the neo-cons have been able to traffic in the discourse of terrorism given that central to their myth of origin was the funding, training, logistical support and political endorsement of a campaign that by any definition of the term was a terrorist action.

but these are longer-term scenarios/potentials.
in the shorter run, the release of this information is theater--theater that i happen to endorse both in itself and as theater--which signals the end of the counter-revolution, the end of the entire approach to governing particular to neoliberalism.

i don't see any immediate action following from this theater.

but--again---if the idea is a fundamental change of ideological and political direction, hauling up the curtain that concealed the machinery of conservative power is a necessary and salutary step. no need to hoist them--they did it to themselves.

tisonlyi 01-22-2009 06:30 AM

I have the idea that once the curtain is drawn back, the media will be like sharks with the scent of blood.

I remember something from Emperor Augustus, maybe even from the Anthony and Cleopatra movie, I'm not sure: "The people must not be pushed into war, they must demand it, they must riot for it. I must be forced into war." something like that.

Iran-Contra, Iran all on its own (some behind the scenes stuff from Reagan prior to his election might pop up?), the voodoo economics debate, El Salvador, Nicaragua, wherever in Latin America, Angola, South Africa (Mr Castro and the Soviets were under the impression that there were some pretty serious developments between the US and the SA regime), Congo, S&L and its build up, National Endowment for Democracy shenanigans, and then there' Bush the Elder...

If the move is really genuine - and some of the commentary I've seen says Obama has reserved the right for an archivist to bring out _any_ wrong-doing by _any_ president with currently living presidents only recourse being the courts - Then Clinton and Bush #43 could both be in for a very rough ride.

Have the country baying for blood, the media running around feverishly trying to put the pieces together and then prosecutions will be inevitable... They won't look like a witch hunt either, at least not on the part of the administration.

We'll see.

It'll act as cover for the economic strife and potentially act as leverage against elements on the hill as well...

Cynthetiq 01-22-2009 09:06 AM

I'm only moderately interested in this, more just from a historical perspective no different than my interests in Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, etc.

I don't see any real mucky muck excitement here except maybe the hype machine for authors writing inflammatory books.

dc_dux 01-22-2009 09:28 AM

I doht think the Obama first few EOs are transformation, but they, certainly start to restore daylight to the Executive Branch.

The EOs on Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and Executive Appointments (ethics) are as meaningful (or more) than restoration of the Presidential Records Act.

Its all got me humming a tune
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun,
and I say it's all right

Little darling, it's been a long cold lonely winter
Little darling, it feels like years since it's been here
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun
and I say it's all right

Little darling, the smiles returning to the faces
Little darling, it seems like years since it's been here
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun
and I say it's all right
For the last eight years, Bush's EO on FOIA allowed most FOIA requests to be denined or delayed as long as the department/agency could offer any "potential" legal justification for doing so (and it was nearly always "national security" with no futher explanation).

The Obama EO says FOIA requests should only be denied if there is a indisputable compelling national security or personal privacy issue to withhold such approval.

On executive appointments and the "revolving door" issue, at ome time during the Bush years, there were more than 60 Cabinet or Sub-Cabinet level positions filled by industry lobbyists/lawyers with business interests in programs adminsitered by their respecitve department/agency (mining lobbyists making decisions at DOI, energy lobbyist at DOE, agribusiness lobbyists at DoAg, pharmaceutial lobbyists at FDA....)

The Obama EO.....NO lobbyists, corporate attorneys, or industry representative will be appointed at the Cabinet/Sub-Cabinet level of a department or agency with which the lobbyists companies might have business.

The new EO also bars any Cabinet/Sub-Cabinet official appiointed by Obama and who return to the private sector at some point in the next few years from lobbying their former agency/department for the full length of Obama's term of presiodent.

Nice start but the detail is always in the follow through.

robot_parade 01-22-2009 08:27 PM

I think this and the other related 'open government' moves by Obama are fantastic. First, an open government is absolutely necessary for a free and democratic society, and our last several presidents have been successively worse in this regard (even Clinton was pretty terrible on this issue). Second, one of the things a lot of Obama supporters want is for him to go after Bush + Co. for their various crimes. This opens the way for that to happen, *without* Obama being the (direct) instigator! Instead of immediately calling for hearings, investigations, etc, he simply paves the way for The People to do it, but doesn't seem petty or vindictive himself. He gets most of the credit, and little of the blame.

A wonderful step towards making our democracy healthier, *and* a brilliant political strategy. Color me impressed.

Locobot 01-28-2009 09:38 PM

IMO GWBush's refusal to follow the law regarding FOIA was an obvious subversion of the balance of power in our government and should have been grounds for immediate impeachment but, you know, that didn't happen. Is there anything short of a constitutional amendment to keep future presidents from simply reversing this and shutting down FOIA again?

Tully Mars 01-29-2009 04:21 AM

Two words- two thoughts

Iran and Contra.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360