Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community (https://thetfp.com/tfp/)
-   Tilted Politics (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-politics/)
-   -   Palin: Duped or just not too smart? (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-politics/142129-palin-duped-just-not-too-smart.html)

dc_dux 12-12-2008 02:51 PM

Alaska funds about 90 percent of the state budget from royalties and taxes on oil producers. Soaring oil prices for most of the year and a higher windfall oil profits tax pushed through last year by Paln might explain it.

what will happen now with the declining oil prices....when the budget is based on $100/barrel oil.

Tully Mars 12-12-2008 02:52 PM

Given the population of her state and it's revenue source I think it would be news if the state didn't have a positive cash flow. Wonder if the drop in oil prices will reduce the checks they send to residents each year this year?

aceventura3 12-12-2008 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapiens (Post 2572231)
Large oil and gas royalties may have been a factor as well.

Yea, that's it. Perhaps we should send a note to the Govenator in Caaaleeefornia.:thumbsup:
-----Added 12/12/2008 at 05 : 56 : 45-----
Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux (Post 2572233)
Alaska funds about 90 percent of the state budget from royalties and taxes on oil producers. Soaring oil prices for most of the year and a higher windfall oil profits tax pushed through last year by Paln might explain it.

what will happen now with the declining oil prices....when the budget is based on $100/barrel oil.

Yea, what will happen? Will you change your view of Palin if she continues to manage the state in a fiscally conservative manner, balances and delivers her budget in a timely manner?

I did not think so. real results really don't matter do they?

dc_dux 12-12-2008 02:59 PM

ace....you were grasping for straws with that post and your kudos to the gov you put on a pedestal. Anyone who knows anything about state finance understands Alaska's unique revenue situation.

aceventura3 12-12-2008 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2572234)
Given the population of her state and it's revenue source I think it would be news if the state didn't have a positive cash flow. Wonder if the drop in oil prices will reduce the checks they send to residents each year this year?

Yea, given population as a factor why is Vermont having problems.

P.S. - Vermont's population is less than the population in Alaska.
-----Added 12/12/2008 at 06 : 03 : 12-----
Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux (Post 2572238)
ace....you were grasping for straws with that post and the kudos to the gov you put on a pedestal. Anyone who knows anything about state finance knows about Alaska's unique revenue situation.

Yea, everyone knows that, but me, I guess. Am I to conclude that you feel that it doesn't take any skill or intellect at all to manage Alaska's budget?

dc_dux 12-12-2008 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3 (Post 2572239)
Yea, everyone knows that, but me, I guess. Am I to conclude that you feel that it doesn't take any skill or intellect at all to manage Alaska's budget?

Yep..I guess everyone but you.....tully, sapiens and I all saw it at the same time. :)

It takes far less skill or intellect to balance a budget when you have soaring revenues as opposed to declining revenues as in many states.

aceventura3 12-12-2008 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux (Post 2572242)
Yep..I guess everyone but you.

It takes far less skill or intellect to balance a budget when you have soaring revenues as opposed to declining revenues as in many states.

The price of oil is pretty volatile, even I know that. Perhaps the simple concept our parents always emphasized (at least mine did, and I bet Palin's also) - in good times set some aside for a rainy day. I love simple minded people.

filtherton 12-12-2008 03:12 PM

I heard Venezuela has a surplus this year*, how about that Chavez, Ace?

*actually, I have no idea

dc_dux 12-12-2008 03:13 PM

I bet she is counting on revenue from the natural gas pipeline that she touts as her achievement...even as it may be under investigation for the manner in which her administration structured the RFP for the project to favor a political friend and contributor by freezing out competitors.
-----Added 12/12/2008 at 06 : 20 : 12-----
Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3 (Post 2572247)
Perhaps the simple concept our parents always emphasized (at least mine did, and I bet Palin's also) - in good times set some aside for a rainy day. I love simple minded people.

Yep...thats pretty simple minded.

Even a child can save when the parents throw a windfall amount of money at him....more than he knows what to do with.

added:

IMO...here is one reason why Palin has no long term viability as a national candidate.

Colin Powell says it well:

"Gov. Palin, to some extent, pushed the party more to the right, and I think she had something of a polarizing effect when she talked about how small town values are good. Well, most of us don’t live in small towns. And I was raised in the South Bronx, and there’s nothing wrong with my value system from the South Bronx.

And when they came to Virginia and said the southern part of Virginia is good and the northern part of Virginia is bad. The only problem with that is there are more votes in the northern part of Virginia than there are in the southern part of Virginia, so that doesn’t work.

It was that attempt by the republican party to use polarization for political advantage and it backfired..... "
Palin is a polarizing figure in addition to being viewed as a lightweight because of the many stupid things she says... and as long as she continues to kowtow to the social conservative base or offer more of her pearls of wisdom, that wont change.

They cant win with her and they cant get rid of her...that is the dilemma faced by the Republican party. It will be fun to watch it play out.

Tully Mars 12-12-2008 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3 (Post 2572239)
Yea, everyone knows that, but me, I guess. Am I to conclude that you feel that it doesn't take any skill or intellect at all to manage Alaska's budget?

I would guess dealing with a budget in any state would take skill and intellect. But I'd say it's safe to say in a state where you have enough income to pay very resident each year it's probably much easier then in a state without such a revenue stream.

Derwood 12-12-2008 05:04 PM

give Vermont the oil revenue from Alaska and i'm positive they'd be in the black

highthief 12-12-2008 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood (Post 2572299)
give Vermont the oil revenue from Alaska and i'm positive they'd be in the black


Pretty much. I have no idea about Palin's management of her state's economy, however, in Canada Alberta and Saskatchewan and Newfoundland have been big oil producers these last few years, and guess what? They're in the black. Meanwhile, the traditional economic engine of Canada - Ontario with traditionally strong manufacturing and technology sectors - is suffering this year.

Worldwide, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and other petro-dollar nations have been doing well, while places like Germany, the Uk and France have taken a hit.

It's not hard to spot the common denominator.

aceventura3 12-14-2008 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton (Post 2572249)
I heard Venezuela has a surplus this year*, how about that Chavez, Ace?

*actually, I have no idea

I was reading an IBD editorial the other day on this very issue. Here it is:

Quote:

Latin America: With oil, Venezuela's Hugo Chavez fueled a revolution based on Marxism and his own swaggering persona. But with oil prices now plunging, he and his near-dictatorship may also go bust.

What goes up must come down. That's the reality of oil prices, which in the past decade have fluctuated from $9 to $178 a barrel in global markets.

But that reality's been disregarded in Venezuela, where $800 billion in oil earnings in the past decade provided the engine of Hugo Chavez's socialist rule.

Premising his government spending on perpetual rises in oil prices, he's now facing an economy with 40% inflation and not enough foreign reserves to cover exports. It's a classic recipe for trouble.

Wild price fluctuations are a fact of life in the oil industry. They explain why private oil companies aren't as profitable as headlines suggest. Fact is, price highs and lows average out profits to just 9% of revenues over a decade, nothing like the 15% returns seen in other industries, such as drugs.

But even on a price roller coaster, oil companies survive by investing in new production when prices are high, and subsidizing production when they're low. The state of Alaska also does this. Gov. Sarah Palin emphasized to IBD last summer that in managing Alaska's oil bonanza, her priority was "saving for a rainy day."

Petro-states dominated by state-owned oil companies employ no such strategy. In booms, their revenues overwhelm their economies, driving out small, non-oil businesses and leaving oil as the only game in town. They also tempt governments to become dictatorships. Flush with oil cash, rulers can slash taxes for their supporters, who will demand even less transparency and accountability.

But it never lasts, and the hangover when prices fall is always ugly. "I call petroleum the devil's excrement. It brings trouble," as Juan Pablo Perez Alfonso, once Venezuela's oil minister, famously said in 1975. "Look at this lunacy — waste, corruption, consumption, our public services falling apart. And debt, debt we shall have for years."

The sad thing is that Venezuela's Chavez has learned nothing from history. He's ignored every lesson from the past, confident oil would remain high forever, while claiming he'd created a new paradigm. Venezuela's "Bolivarian Revolution," built around one-man rule by Chavez, was "different," he insisted.

After posting a surplus of 12.5% of GDP this year, and spending at least 4.5% of GDP on a stimulus package of soup kitchen offerings, Chavez is now down to his last $87 billion in reserves, having created nothing of permanent value. Next year, S&P estimates a wild swing into deficit by Venezuela, forcing devaluation.

Venezuelan oil prices are now $34 a barrel. Producing 2.3 million barrels a day, down 16% from 2005, and now consuming 795,000 barrels of that, as Caracas investment banker Miguel Octavio estimated on his blog, "The Devil's Excrement," he doesn't even have enough earnings to finance imports. He's given away about 424,000 barrels of oil output, and must make do on sales of about 1 million barrels. With oil down, Chavez has entered the worst phase of the oil cycle.

The cash he used to buy elections in 2004 and 2006 is no more, and his hasty call for a new measure to end term limits — and enable him to be president for life — is pretty much a desperate effort to end any calls for accountability in the wake of the bust.

He's not likely to last in these conditions any more than the other strongmen thrown out in Venezuelan history. The irony is that he sold his revolution on faith in socialism.

In reality, it was an ungodly faith in high oil prices. With oil prices falling, the devil is coming for his due.
IBDeditorials.com: Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor's Business Daily -- Chavez Steps Into 'Devil's Excrement'

P.s. - To the folks who don't like IBD, please spare me the grief about this being an IBD editorial. I have heard it all before. Feel free to check the facts yourself.
-----Added 14/12/2008 at 10 : 07 : 48-----
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2572269)
I would guess dealing with a budget in any state would take skill and intellect. But I'd say it's safe to say in a state where you have enough income to pay very resident each year it's probably much easier then in a state without such a revenue stream.

Do you think Alaska's natural and other available resources exceeds that of, for example, California? Are you suggesting that managing resources has no role in what many States face today?
-----Added 14/12/2008 at 10 : 10 : 11-----
Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood (Post 2572299)
give Vermont the oil revenue from Alaska and i'm positive they'd be in the black

Give me Warren Buffet's money and I would be in the black too. So, what is the point here? I don't get it? Just because Buffet has more money than I do, does that mean that I can't manage my money?

Come on guys, give the lady some credit, gee.:no:
-----Added 14/12/2008 at 10 : 13 : 35-----
Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief (Post 2572325)
Pretty much. I have no idea about Palin's management of her state's economy, however, in Canada Alberta and Saskatchewan and Newfoundland have been big oil producers these last few years, and guess what? They're in the black. Meanwhile, the traditional economic engine of Canada - Ontario with traditionally strong manufacturing and technology sectors - is suffering this year.

Worldwide, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and other petro-dollar nations have been doing well, while places like Germany, the Uk and France have taken a hit.

It's not hard to spot the common denominator.

Ok, again I ask - will your view of Palin change given the decline in the price of oil and Alaska continuing to balance it budget in the future under Palin.

I doubt it. And it is clear to me that some are just "haters" and results and actual job performance don't mean a thing.

dc_dux 12-14-2008 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3 (Post 2572803)
Ok, again I ask - will your view of Palin change given the decline in the price of oil and Alaska continuing to balance it budget in the future under Palin.

I doubt it. And it is clear to me that some are just "haters" and results and actual job performance don't mean a thing.

I dont hate her...I just believe she has been a marginal governor at best, her ethics have been questionable and she has demonstrated neither the intellect nor the vision to be President or Vice President.

highthief 12-14-2008 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3 (Post 2572803)
Ok, again I ask - will your view of Palin change given the decline in the price of oil and Alaska continuing to balance it budget in the future under Palin.

I doubt it. And it is clear to me that some are just "haters" and results and actual job performance don't mean a thing.

I have no idea - I doubt I'll think much about her unless she finds a cure for cancer or starts WW3. Alaska doesn't really enter my thoughts very often.

I was merely responding to another post about how oil-based economies have all done well in recent years.

If she has been smart enough to squirrel away a lot of the excess cash to cushion the blow of declining oil prices and not blow it all on silly expenditures, I would certainly give her credit for having a few extra brain cells, of course.

aceventura3 12-15-2008 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief (Post 2572899)
I was merely responding to another post about how oil-based economies have all done well in recent years.

This is not true. I will try one more time, different source:

Quote:

While a five-month, 68 percent plunge in oil, the South American country’s biggest export, has crimped revenue, the government can still pay its debts, said Matias Silvani, who helps manage $12 billion of emerging-market debt at JPMorgan Asset Management in New York. Ecuador has $5.7 billion of foreign reserves, according to the central bank.

Total debt of $10 billion equals about 21 percent of the country’s gross domestic product today. Its debt equaled 97 percent of GDP in 1999. Argentina’s debt had swelled to 150 percent of GDP when it carried out the biggest sovereign default ever in 2001.

Vulture Lawsuits

Ecuador’s default in 1999 “was due to a solvency issue,” Silvani said. “Now they do have the money to pay. This is a purely willingness to pay issue.”

Ecuador paid bondholders 60 cents on the dollar in a restructuring in 2000, double the 30 cents Argentina paid five years later. About 25 percent of bondholders rejected Argentina’s offer and the country is still unable to access international capital markets as it fends off creditor lawsuits.
Bloomberg.com: Exclusive

Regardless of the spike in oil revenues, those revenues can be mismanaged, and there is the issue of volatility in the price of oil which mean the good times have to be managed against the bad. Funny but that seem to be an argument US oil companies made to Congress as the CEO's were put through the ringer.

{added} To clarify - Oil revenues have been at record levels for many oil producing nations and they have benefited, however, with our current oil prices the economic conditions in these countries that are mismanaged quickly deteriorates. I was listening to CNBC and they quoted Buffet this morning - "When the tide recedes you get to see who was swimming naked" .

highthief 12-16-2008 04:24 PM

I don't know what you want me to say - I told you that if she manages her economy through the hard times ahead, I would give her credit for her intelligence in doing so.

Do I think she deserves any particular credit for showing a surplus when times are good? No, no politician deserves credit for that regardless of who they are. The mark of a smart leader is how they do during the lean times.

Tully Mars 12-16-2008 06:20 PM

I don't get it. She balanced a budget where the income/revenue stream exceeds expenses. Who can't do that? If the budget wasn't balanced that would be news.

Derwood 12-16-2008 08:17 PM

at this point I feel like Ace is just defending her because he doesn't want to concede to the democrats in the thread, not because he likes Palin

dc_dux 12-18-2008 08:27 PM

Happy New Years, ace!
http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/images/b02503.jpg
Sarah Palin Calendar 2009

pig 12-19-2008 05:40 AM

So this whole thread has turned into whether or not Sarah Palin is actually a visionary intellectual or not based on her ability to have a balanced budget during her terms in Alaska?

1. She had a balanced budget, and that's a golden star on her report card. :thumbsup:
1.a. It's not like she's actually "balancing the budget..." sitting up at night with a calculator...but still, it's a golden star...

2. I never thought to myself "Damn! I think that Palin woman might be an idiot...let me check for the ultimate litmus test of intellectual prowess...is her budget balanced bitches!?!.."

2.a. She said a number of other things during her brief (hopefully, Buddha be praised) stint in the limelight that I'm not overly impressed with her mental acumen. It's not any one thing, it's the sum of many things.

2.b. Jesus rode a dinosaur + Russia is in my backyard + "Bush Doctrine? What Bush Doctrine?" + "I wanna be V.P." => hmmm....???

3. Back to the OP - of course it's a bad idea to take a phone call from a non-verified foreign dignitary, without telling the remainder of the campaign. Fucking Duh.

Ok, I feel better. I just can't figure out what the hell is supposed to be discussed here anymore. At the present point in time, who gives a bucket of snot about Sarah Palin? Hope she has fun in Alaska, and maybe if we quit talking about her she'll go away. I don't really dislike her much more than other people like her, I just don't care much about her, specifically, and I want her to poof!!!

roachboy 12-19-2008 05:47 AM

can we linger a moment over this jesus rode a dinosaur thing?
i like it.
did you just make that up, comrade pig?

pig 12-20-2008 05:18 AM

roach: i wish i could take credit, but i must confess i picked up wandering around these intertubes. Here's a Christmas present for you:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29...Dino_jesus.jpg

or this treat:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29...a_dinosaur.jpg

Tully Mars 12-20-2008 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pig (Post 2575128)
roach: i wish i could take credit, but i must confess i picked up wandering around these intertubes. Here's a Christmas present for you:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29...Dino_jesus.jpg

or this treat:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29...a_dinosaur.jpg

I think the bible talks about this in the book of Craig.

Tully Mars 12-20-2008 06:16 PM

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart...on20081118.jpg

roachboy 12-21-2008 08:59 AM

that's great, comrade pig sir.
and there are so many photographs like those...

thingstodo 01-11-2009 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux (Post 2572233)
Alaska funds about 90 percent of the state budget from royalties and taxes on oil producers. Soaring oil prices for most of the year and a higher windfall oil profits tax pushed through last year by Paln might explain it.

what will happen now with the declining oil prices....when the budget is based on $100/barrel oil.

They are actually in big trouble right now!


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360