I'm alright with most on the list. Don't know enough on a couple to have much of an option. But...

John Kerry? Seriously? John Kerry? I would have serious misgivings about even putting him on the list, any list.

It looks like Obama is giving a serious look at military folk including Clark and Webb. It's a smart move I think. Too bad Hillary wasn't a retired General or something; he could get a 2 for 1 there.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/....vp/index.html

General Hillary Clinton? Don't get me wrong, she's a brilliant woman, but I get the feeling she is less qualified than a lot of other people (including many, many women) to be a career military officer.

I really like both Clark and Webb. Personally I think Clark might be more qualified, but think Webb is more electable.

I don't know about that. Clark with REALLY good coaching could be a KILLER VP candidate.

Well, I'm not willing to put any money on it. Actually think he'd do a hell of a job if elected. Just seems any more you need an attack dog in VP spot on the ticket. I think Edwards came up short on this, but again could be wrong. I just don't see Clark filling that slot, sadly his ability to deliver a sound bite might be more important then his actual ability. Life in the 24hr news cycle.

I think we'd be lucky with Clark or Webb, though honestly when Webb stood up to Bush after he remarked on Webb's son (who was deployed)... I think that clinched it for me. I'll back Webb, but I'll be happy either way.

In doing some reading I keep getting references to some sexist comments by Webb. Sound years old, I'm not sure what they are or what they were. Alway these vague comments about them.

Any one know anything about these?

Some list. It seems too slanted to the right wing of the party. I suspect that's because it's a list of people that the writer or writers would like to see on the ballot. OK, so maybe you want to consider people from Ohio, Virginia, and Florida more than others even if they may be otherwise uninspiring. But why Biden, Dodd, Daschle, Bayh, or Reed? Nunn? Kerry??!! What are you people smoking?

From these, i'd go with Sebelius. Aside from everything else, she was born in Cincinnati.

p.s. Strickland says no way. Which is fine with me. He shouldn't be on that list anyway.

Jim Webb on the Meet the Press during his Senate campaign in 2006 discussing an article he wrote, "Women Cant Fight" and responding to Tim Russert's question about Webb's comment that the Naval Academy "is a horny woman's dream":

Jim Webb's Baggage (at 2:27 ..... see the embarrassing smile when asked to explain the "horny woman's dream" comment

The comments go back 20 years and I dont think the baggage is that serious, but it would be a temporary distraction on the campaign trail that Obama doesnt need.

I think the far greater reason that he will not be the VP choice is that it would risk losing a Democratic seat in the Senate -- the only other highly rated state-wide Democrat in "red" Virginia is Mark Warner, who is currently running for the other Senate seat held by the retiring Repub John Warner (no relation)

"Constitutionally ineligible" refers to the whole constitution. It referred only to Article II until the 22nd amendment was passed, rendering two-term presidents constitutionally ineligible to hold the office of president, and therefore Vice President

Clark is clearly chomping at the bit to be VP.

WesPac is alive and well.

Update

Obama's Veep could be a Republican which would definitely make things very interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080620/...pr/obama_hagel

If McCain picks up Lieberman, then I guess we would have two mixed tickets and two minority tickets too.

I like the way this race is shaping up, definitely more interesting.

Thanks for the info Dux, interesting.

Re: Hagel- I don't see it happening. Not completely opposed to it just don't see it ever being anymore then a talking point. Seems every election there's talk of a cross party ticket, far as I know it's always been just that- talk.

Ron Paul and Obama! w00t!!!

I want to preface by saying that I am politically ignorant, for the most part - at least for US politics. You wanna talk about provincial and local politics in al Anbar? Give me a call! :thumbsup:

That being said, I think Obama would be hanging himself to pick either a female or minority VP. To do so would automatically write him off for a good portion of conservative or fence-riding voters.

I don't know much about the potential VPs he's looking at, save one or two.

I'm not too sure how much Wes Clark would help the ticket. Yes, he's a good leader with a tone of military cred. He was, however, Chmn. of the JCS during the war (and when it kicked off, IIRC?). For all the shit-slinging people do at Petraeus, Clark was in an even better position to affect the prosecution of the War on Terror or in Iraq. That's probably just me, though.

General Jones? Well, he was a so-so Commandant of the Marine Corps, and the first ever to take another post (Supreme Commander, Europe) after his four years in the Corps' top spot. Good guy, but not a *great* guy - although he's been pretty well-groomed for foreign policy, particularly in Europe.

I like Jim Webb, for many, many, many reasons. He resigned as SecNav under Reagan - the iconic GOP President - over issues of principle. After Jimmy Webb came back from his first Iraq tour (as an enlisted Marine 0311 Rifleman), Jim wore his son's boots every day while campaigning for Senate. And while he was a Marine, Jim Webb won the Navy Cross, Silver Star, and Bronze Star (x 2) in Viet Nam - yet was NOT a career military man.

Dude has shitloads of military cred, as well as DoD and foreign policy insight, but he's not someone who just hung up his stars a year or two ago. He wouldn't have to wash his hands of Iraq because he had nothing to do with shaping policy that drew us there. He's definitely got some skin in that game, though.

Okay, McCain's kid has done a tour in Iraq as well, to be fair. For me, though, the bottom line is that if Obama picks Webb, he gets my vote automatically.




(Although if we vote based strictly on hotness of wives, McCain and the blonde with tits up to her chin win by a landslide!)

Webb, would be a great VP choice IMO, but can the Dems afford to risk Webb's Senate seat in a 49-49 Senate (2 Independents Lieberman and Sanders caucus with the Democrats)? VA would be a tough open seat for a Dem candidate to defend in a special election (though that wouldn't occur immediately I don't think). Maybe if the Dems make some net gains in Senatoral elections elsewhere in the 2008 elections but that is a bit of a gamble. (for those non-US TFP members 1/3 of the Senate is up for re-election)

I think the Dems are widely expected to gain ~ 5 seats in November. Of course, that's predictions, and they mean nothing until the election. So, they'd be risking losing a seat in a climate where they are predicted to get a firm majority but are unlikely to get the magic number of 60%. Not to mention, winning the presidential election will likely be an indicator of picking up a number in the upper range of the Senate seats up for grabs.

In other news, politico.com tells me that Wesley Clark is criticizing McCain's credentials again:

Out of Clarke and Webb, who do you guys perceive as bringing more "tough guy" legitimacy to the ticket?

They're both tough as nails. I'll admit I'm a bit torn between them right now.

Clarke is definitely better than Webb, both in terms of credentials and in terms of being a good candidate. That said, I think it's fair to take him out of the running at this point, since Obama has denounced Clarke's (100% correct) remarks.

The really sad thing about the whole Clarke thing is watching the interviewer being astonished at the idea of what Clarke is saying. It's not like Clarke was trying to diminish McCain's past, but being president does not involve flying a jet and being tortured. It's a totally different role, and just because McCain managed one doesn't mean he's fit for the other.

What exactly are Obama's qualifications?

At least McCain shows he is willing to work with the Dems. McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, McCain-Lieberman......... where is Obama-(R)?

I used to be a proud Democrat because the party had shared the same values and ideals I did. But not Obama, not the current crop. The current crop is as far left as the Neo-Cons went right. Does the Democratic Party really want to sell it's beliefs to the far left and go so far left that just as the Neo-Cons chased out their moderates the "Progressives" will chase out theirs?

Obama's VP better be a moderate and wisely chosen. One who is a uniter, not a divider. It probably won't matter as the office is nothing really except a tie breaker in the Senate if need be or a heartbeat away from President.

My prediction: Obama is more of a divider in this country than W and his VP is ruined politically.

Qualifications to choose a vip? Wel, he's the Democratic nominee. He needs to pick one.
How well did compromising with Republicans go for Hillary Clinton? Not well. Obama isn't stupid. He knows that Democrats want a Democratic leader, not some weak Republicrat who compromises on those ideals and values that liberals and progressives hold dear.
This is, of course, based in nothing. Based on polling and statistics (a.k.a. the evidence available), Obama is not a divider.

Pan, if you go to The Library of Congress you can easily search for the bills that Obama has co-sponsored. Many, many of them have Republican co-sponsors. I started to compile a list, but it because tedious becuse there are so many.

Here are two WaPo articles that talk about his performance in the IL state legislature. Again, solid records of bi-partisan work, including one bill that was passed unanimously.

This one is anecdotal.
This one is "news".

Here's a quote from Republican State Senator from IL, on the Fox website, of all places:

“People on both sides of the aisle would find him to be someone who would reach across to find out why people think the way they do,” said William Mahar, a former Republican state senator. “He wouldn’t talk just to people who agreed with him.”

In short, I think that your perception of Obama as a legislative unilateralist is unfounded.

I have never seen the mainstream corporate media and the democratic national leadership shift so far to the right, as it has this month:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...-wesley-clark/

John McCain uses Swiftboater Bud Day to attack Wesley Clark
By: John Amato @ 5:00 PM - PDT

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...thing-on-fisa/

Special Comment: Olbermann Challenges Obama To Do The Right Thing On FISA
By: Logan Murphy @ 7:00 PM - PDT

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...lagers-attack/
When Villagers Attack….
By: John Amato @ 3:00 PM - PDT

The media should start their own McCain Defense PAC to help John McCain. They do it every chance they get. Maybe Joe Klein can be the chairman of the board. Where were all these media trolls and Villagers when John Kerry was swiftboated for winning medals in Vietnam? They sure didn’t mind those very real attacks against his service.

Wesley Clark on Face the Nation: CNN accuses Clark of “Swiftboating”

Fox’s Henneberg deceptively cropped Clark interview.

Duncan is absolutely correct...

“Gonna be a long election season.”

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...t-in-say-what/
Bush praises McCain for Expansion of the GI Bill that he had no part in: Say, what?
By: John Amato @ 1:00 PM - PDT


http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...woods-or-news/

A Question of Priorities: Tiger Woods or News?
By: Nicole Belle @ 12:15 PM - PDT
My buddy Media Bloodhound had a simple question: why was the announcement that Tiger Wood needed reconstructive knee surgery so important that it led the CBS Evening News for a full 4 1/2 minute segment (out of 22 minutes of broadcast time)? It wasn’t as if it was a slow news day. Look at some of the stories MBH found that day that CBS opted not to do:

Israeli Defense Officials Confirm Cease-Fire with Hamas to Begin Thursday
Baghdad Insists on Right to Veto US Operations
Bill Extending Jobless Benefits Is Blocked By G.O.P.
Baghdad Blast Leaves 51 Dead, And the Shiites Call for Revenge
Notes Show Confusion on Interrogation Methods
One-Third of People Shot by Taser Need Medical Attention
Chinese Quake Toll, 69,172, Is Just a Guess
Senators Deny Knowing Of Home Loan Favoritism; Senate Ethics Panel Is Investigating
More Illegal Crossings Are Criminal Cases, Group Says
Conflicts Displacing More People
UN Says 5 Million Could Go Hungry in Zimbabwe Due to Drop in Food Production, High Inflation
Man with Deadly Skin Cancer Saved by New Treatment
Sudan: Darfur Groups Urge U.N. Action
US Targets Venezuela-Based Hezbollah Helpers
Taliban Take Afghan Villages In South in Prelude to Battle
Three Men Charged for Politkovskaya Murder: Investigators
New Florida Rules Return More Than 115,000 Ex-Offenders to Voting Rolls
Pakistani Fury Over U.S. Airstrikes Imperils Training of Frontier Force

So MBH contacted Rick Kaplan, Executive Producer of CBS Evening News, and this is his pathetic answer:

“The Tiger Woods injury story was of major importance and we felt we needed to devote time to it as the lead. Tiger is arguably one of the world’s premiere athletes and his career is in some jeopardy with Tiger halting playing the sport for the year. It was certainly the most talked about story of the day, and the biggest story in most national newspapers. Our story contained implications for sports, millions of fans, and many aspects of business; which have by and large been revolutionized by the Tiger Woods phenomenon.”

If you want to know why such thin gruel often passes for serious news on network television, Mr. Kaplan’s statement perfectly underscores the warped priorities of corporate media.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...-hears-it-too/

UPDATED with video: Obama criticizes MoveOn.org in patriotism speech: Wesley Clark hears it too…
By: John Amato @ 11:15 AM - PDT

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...-robert-gates/

Is Obama Considering Keeping On Robert Gates?

Et Tu, Pan ?

Once again, the facts triumph over emotion.

I do like pan's McCain-Kennedy and McCain-Feingold examples since McCain has now taken positions against both in order to appease the far right base.

Almost as much as I like McCain taking credit for the 21th Century GI bill that was included in the recent Iraq funding bill since he was the leading opponent of the bill in the Senate.

Oh, I don't know about that. I think it's firmly founded in his belief that Obama's no good. The AMPLE evidence to the contrary makes no difference, given the tenacity of that belief.

I opened a new thread for this.

ABC News

Political Radar: Webb to Remain in Senate, No longer VP Candidate

It's not going to be Webb. Personally I'm with a lot of you here, I think we would be a politically perfect VP for Obama, but alas. I even read his book because a few months ago I was convinced it was going to be him.

Now I have no idea. Sebelius is as good a guess as any.

I think Clark is pretty likely- they seem to be going with a security theme, and he can back Obama up on that. Plus, he's a Washington outsider, and won't outshine Obama.

I'm not seeing a female VP- that might piss off Hillary supporters. The campaign probably polled Hillary supporters about that, though, so they'd know more than me about what Hillary supporters think.

However, I'd really like to see Biden get the role. He was one of my favorites from the Democratic primary debates, and came off as the most knowledgeable of the candidates. He voted for the war, though, and he's been in Washington for a long time, so I don't know if he'll fit in with Obama's change message. Still, he seems to have a lot of good experience and common sense, and he seems pretty likable to me.

Clark made comments that pretty much took him out of the running several weeks ago, IMO.

So Clarke and Webb are out. I wonder if Obama can convince Powell....

Everyone is saying Biden, though. He's got the foreign policy chops and could fill that supposed hole in the Obama ticket, but I dunno. I like Biden, I mean I'd have him over for a BBQ, and he said he'd accept on Meet the Press a few months back, but I can think of stronger VPs. I'd rather see a military name on the ticket with Obama.

Mark Warner is giving the keynote at the Convention.

Today's hubbub is John Kerry. geeez

Yeah, don't see that happening.

So I guess we will find out tomorrow who it is. But, do you think Obama and his staff are the only people to know? Or do you think there will be a bunch of Obama-[insert VP name here] signs, commercials, an web material going out tomorrow too. Meaning that the media/tabloids should have dug deeper and could have found out. Or is the media in on it and agreed to keep the secret?

They need to get the Apple fanbois on the case... they tend to know what will be released before it is announced.

It's brilliant marketing. The Obama team is really in tune with its audience. McCain...not so much.

At least two sources are stating it's Bayh:

SFGate: Politics Blog : Obama-Bayh bumperstickers being printed?

Gawd I hope not. Don't get me wrong I'll not be voting for McCain regardless. But Bayh? Ugh! I can see it now "Bayh, Bayh Obama." The signs will be everywhere.

Sounds like a lock, but I'll wait to hear it from Obama tomorrow.