I feel I answered and paid more attention to those like yours and Jinn Kai's that showed respect, didn't talk down to me, insult me and so on.... as I didn't have to do that to anyone.

I don't think I'm a martyr when 6 pages of attacks, being called a fuckin t/fool , talked down to, insulted, told I was pwnd... and so on.

All I did was point out what was said, which if you all of a sudden are allowed to tell me to shut the fuck up or call me a fucking t/fool and so on, why am I not allowed to react and allow myself to speak out how I feel about that without being called a martyr.

Will, views totally aside, if some of these posts directed at me were directed at you, how would you feel? What would you do?

ok pan--i apologize for the fool remark.

but by the time i got to that level of exasperation, you had dodged the same argument 4 or 5 times.
and the argument was straightforward.

most of what i posted before had nothing of personal attack in them.
i went out of my way to distinguish what i was saying about the politics that i see informing you on this particular issue (but not on others) FROM a personal attack.

for some reason, you chose to interpret what i posted in EXACTLY the opposite direction, and used that to dodge the substance of the argument.

it was pointed out to you by a bunch of other folk besides myself that you had dodged the argument. you did the same with dc_dux for most of the thread. you did the same with silent jay. you did the same with host. you did the same with mixedmedia, with ratbastid. you have ignored the substance of EVERY critique of your position.

given that, i think that folk in the main have been pretty patient with this thread and your conduct in it...host was offended directly, reacted in a harsh manner, but at least explained himself. as for everyone else who has reacted in a negative manner toward you, i think you can see exactly how and why it happened simply by reading the thread. you brought this all down on yourself, pan--and i have no idea what motivated you to do it.


here's the deal as i see it: there are certain expectation that follow from starting a thread--they're minimal, but they're binding--one of them is that when you launch a thread, you are doing it because you want to launch a discussion.
discussion includes the possibility of disagreement.
it is assumed that if you disagree that you will explain yourself, and that in turn some rational responses to that explanation can be expected.

you have systematically ignored even that most minimal expectation about discussion in this thread.
you do not want to have a discussion.
you want to be told that your (mis)understanding of the situation that prompted the op is correct.
that's all you want to hear.
that's not a discussion--that's a monologue.
and the more pressure you came under to engage in an dialogue--because of the weakness of your own position--the pissier you got.
and the pissier you got, the more uncontrolled became your projections about others, about yourself.


edit:

this is *not* about any "group-think" as ustwo would have it--unless by "group-think" you mean historical accuracy and minimal logic--but if that's "group-think" and you've transcended that, where does that leave you?

it's not a good defense.

You got called a fool once, not for 6 pages, no one attacked you for 6 pages, quit exageratting.

How do you think we all feel pan with you ignoring everything we say for 6 pages? I've shown proof you said this thread wasn't about race, yet you keep bringing race into it, and what did you do with my proof? Ignored it, didn't even show me the respect of answering why you lied in ther first part of the thread, even after I respectively gave my opinion of the OP, fuck I was the first response you couldn't fuckin miss it. But of course if you admitted you changed the meaning of the thread to suit your needs, well you wouldn't want to do that.

I'll show you ONE more time, give you one more chance to respond and explain:
So you see it's about abuse of power, apparently.
When you use the word 'Racist' in you thread title pan, guess what your threads about? That's right....race.
And pan starts bring race into the discussion all the while telling us it isn't about race, then changing to 'no one wants to discuss the dark underbelly'.

So you see pan, it's all there right in front of you, this thread was doomed from the time you hit submit because you had no fuckin clue what you were on about.

Ignore this if you will, I could care less, just wanted to show you it was you who sent this thread down the shitter because you weren't honest with what the thread was about.

Here, you can use mine:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ia/airpump.gif

judas?


http://newmexico.indymedia.org/uploa...rama_queen.jpg

It depends on from whom the comments came, really. I'm used to name calling and such from some people on TFP, but there are a lot of members from which it would likely mean that I need to examine what I'm saying or doing.

If host ever posted in response to something I wrote in the way he did on page 1, (after I was finished crying) I'd really have to sit back and reexamine what I was trying to say because I know that while host can be somewhat passionate about things from time to time, generally I find myself agreeing with him most of the time. And it's not about backing off of something I feel passionately about. Host and I debated seriously about abortion and father's rights and I found that I had to reexamine what I was saying several times to make sure that what I was posting was not only honestly what I feel but that it made sense. And I've made plenty of nonsensical points on TFP, believe you me. It's because I know that my fellow board members are honest with me that I am so open to learn here. If I say something stupid, even my best TFP friend will call me on it and they won't pull any punches.

Do I agree with "shut the fuck up"? Not really. I agree with the message but not the method by which it was delivered. Same thing with "fool". I'm surprised, though, that instead of self reflection those inspired you to basically lock down completely. DC_Dux practically had to take a jackhammer to get you to admit that you don't actually know most of what you're basing your opinion on.

This maybe true.

I do ignore the trollish.... seems Silent Jay can do nothing but want to snip out parts and play games..... Silent.... you are being ignored.

Host I have been ignoring for awhile. Seems he has to find Bush and the GOP behind everything.

In fact had you not quoted the "Shut the Fuck Up" from him.... I'd have never seen it.

It kind of sucks to want to talk politics and have debates with respect and as friends when you are neither truly far left nor right. Both extremist sides are too eager to personally attack and flame and burn you rather than accept the challenge and truly talk about the issue. It's easy to become flustered and just want to attack back instead of staying lose to what the issue is and maintaining a composure and respect while those around you refuse to show the same respect.

I did this once to you UsTwo.... you and I may not be of the same political mind but I appologize.... I am sorry I never gave you a chance to show your true opinions, before attacking you shamelessly and putting you on a defensive.

Indeed. I saw the post before it was edited too, and I distinctly remember it being "fool."

Pan: ratbastid has it right when he points out mods are entitled to opinions as well. I can't help but notice the striking similarity though: a judge chooses to express a private opinion to a select group of people after rendering a verdict and you see it as inappropriate and prejudiced; some mods express opinions which are somewhat heated but refrain from using their position as mod in any way, yet you take particular issue that mods are expressing these opinions. I'm not sure what to take from the similarity, I just thought it was worth noting.

There are nearly 30 mods on the site (with varying levels of activity), with political and social views ranging from conservative to liberal. If you don't like something about what the 4 mods in this thread have said, or how they have or have not moderated something someone else said, you can pick from 25 other mods to message and ask for an uninvolved opinion. Or you could message all of them. I honestly don't really care which, and I encourage you to do it. We're all human, and we all make mistakes, etc etc etc, but if you don't bring what you view as a mistake to the attention of one of the mods who isn't already involved here, then nothing is ever going to happen.

To be perfectly frank, if this had been your first thread of this type, I would have done something about a number of the posts in here. But after a month of typing to a wall, I can't blame anyone for the occasional outburst, and I don't think it appropriate to warn someone for getting frustrated in entirely understandable circumstances (and I let things slide all the time all over the site for this reason, it has nothing to do with the fact I happen to be somewhat involved in these threads).

If only more of your posts were so mercifully short and so on topic without extraneous and contradictory links.

Good job.

That you so persistently cling to the possibility that he used the word "tool" is evidence alone that there is a difference between the two. Otherwise, you'd drop the long-ago debunked "tool" and be arguing strictly on the basis of being called a "fool."

Not to mention: he quickly edited it out. I can't think of a single time when someone has even gotten a sterm PM when they self-moderated soon after the fact.

Can we lock this? It's evident discussion stopped pages ago.

My names Jay not silent. No games at all pan, ignore me if you like, everyone else can see you words and how you had no clue what the thread was about to start. I snip out parts because you can't kjeep a theme going for more than one post at a time it seems.
I find it amusing you see me as a troll, I guess you don't like being called out on the bullshit you type here, as I said before get some thicker skin pan, this martyr bullshit is getting old and tiring. I won't put you on ignore, I enjoy reading opinions that are different from my own(no matter how fucked up), guess you want a yes man and not someone who disagrees.

I second this motion lol

Yes.

And, now, pan, I'm using my moderating abilities. Not because I disagree with you, but because JinnKai is correct. This thread is going nowhere.