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06-09-2005, 02:30 AM | #1 (permalink) | |||||
Banned
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Is Alan Greenspan's Legacy the Destruction of Fiat Currency and Worldwide Depression?
Since it's inception in 1913, the Federal Reserve has presided over the devaluation of the dollar by 97 percent. Some view Alan Greenspan as a positive influence in managing the U.S. economy and the purchasing power of U.S. paper currency. Is this really an accurate conclusion of how his legacy as Fed Chairman will be regarded in the future.
IMO, Greenspan chose, at every turn, to sacrifice the longer term soundness of the dollar, in favor of short term expediency; economic stimulation of the American economy, at any cost. In so doing, my research shows that he has contradicted much of what he knew, as an economist, and has accelerated the collapse of the U.S. dollar, and put the U.S. on a path to no return. Greenspan is reduced to the ridiculous quote at the bottom of this post, and all we can do is ask, "are we there yet", and buy silver, the best protection of future personal, economic security, "on the dips". Quote:
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Last edited by host; 06-09-2005 at 02:32 AM.. Reason: Fixed spelling error in thread title....... |
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06-09-2005, 03:43 AM | #2 (permalink) | |
Addict
Location: Mansion by day/Secret Lair by night
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Thank you for the articles, host - interesting reading. I was such a fan of Greenspan even back in the Regan and Bush years, and Clinton always seemed to leave him alone so that he could manage the monetary cycles in slow, calculated steps. I'm not sure what the motivation was for him to have become so loose and mallable to this administration's short term agendas? First they torch the political currency of Colin Powell, and now they have Greenspan badmouthing himself and his basic monetary theory!
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Oft expectation fails... and most oft there Where most it promises - Shakespeare, W. |
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06-09-2005, 05:19 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Indiana
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Ya, what's funny is that people blame Bush for the economy. I think presidents have had very little to do with the economy since the Federal Reserve was instituted.
The Federal Reserve is the real economic problem, not unemployement, tax cuts for the rich, etc. How corrupt is a government that can literally print more money? I'd go to jail if I tried that. "We can guarantee cash benefits as far out and at whatever size you like, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power." Alan Greenspan WTF, that pretty much sums up the federal reserve. Go ahead and print us some more benefits that will fix the situation. |
06-09-2005, 05:39 AM | #4 (permalink) | |
Addict
Location: Mansion by day/Secret Lair by night
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They are all to blame for the nasty ride we have in front of us...
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Oft expectation fails... and most oft there Where most it promises - Shakespeare, W. |
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06-10-2005, 04:40 PM | #5 (permalink) | ||
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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WE allowed companies to merge and go heavily in debt and allowed the leveraged buyouts and so on, because we were told that the companies would be more prosperous, profitable and help our 401 k's and IRA and Mutual Funds. We kept voting for politicians that would sidestep economy hardball questions and stick to balanced budgets, because we believed that the bad times wouldn't come, even though the reports and research and warnings for the past 20+ years have told us they would. We kept believing that losing jobs overseas and cheaper products were ok. We kept allowing businesses to raid pension plans and fix their books then watch as the executives golden parachute out as the companies go bankrupt. We turned blind eyes and deaf ears to anyone who warned us, believing it was politically motivated and that they were nuts....... And now the time is upon us and what are we going to do? As the great RAY DAVIES of The KINKS wrote in the song "DRIFT AWAY" in 1991, a bit prophetic...... Quote:
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" Last edited by pan6467; 06-10-2005 at 04:53 PM.. |
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06-10-2005, 04:56 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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I agree with Pan that the big "we" has been far too passive about understanding and participating in the decisions that are being made for us. The big "we" has become blinded by party loyalty, because that is more convenient than taking the time to understand an issue from opposing perspectives.
"We" have become lazy and complaisant, which is far easier than employing our intellect to test our beliefs. |
06-10-2005, 06:15 PM | #7 (permalink) | |
lascivious
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06-10-2005, 06:17 PM | #8 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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06-10-2005, 07:40 PM | #10 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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06-10-2005, 08:41 PM | #11 (permalink) |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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If you asked 100 people on the street of any major city what the Federal Reserve Bank does and how the changes in interest rates that you hear about on TV affect the economy, I would bet that no more than 5 of them could give even a basic answer to the question. Our country has pulled through market crashes, recessions, and a huge depression, and we've managed to survive, but it's going to keep on happening unless we educate ourselves on how our government works so that we can make informed decisions about who would do the best job of running it.
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06-10-2005, 08:54 PM | #12 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Most people should just continue to do us the favor and not vote.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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06-11-2005, 10:55 AM | #13 (permalink) |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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I will be the first to admit that I do not understand macro-economics but from what little I do understand it seems to be a natural phenomenon that our (these) economic systems must crash and purge themselves from time to time. I don't think there are any examples in the world where they haven't. Manipulations like those of the federal reserve are probably just short term bandaids.
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06-11-2005, 11:03 AM | #14 (permalink) |
Junkie
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This is the problem with fiat currency-based economies; THEY DON'T WORK.
When the currency is based upon something that has a finite, relatively fixed supply ( gold, silver, platinum, etc ) the currency cannot become inflated, because the supply can never grow beyond its' own ability to purchase goods and services. Once the currency is unhooked from its' Standard, however, you start to have major problems. The first and largest of these is what we're seeing now. The Gov't needs money, so it has the Central Bank ( in this case the Fed. Reserve ) simply print some, which the Gov't then spends into circulation. This massively devalues the currency over time; 97% in the last 100 years, in the case of the US. |
06-13-2005, 04:58 AM | #15 (permalink) | |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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It seems like all it takes is a certain percentage of the population to get nervous and stop buying things which leads to layoffs and more nervousness and things start spiraling downward. |
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06-13-2005, 10:56 AM | #16 (permalink) |
Junkie
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The Gold Standard was only partially in place. So-called Fractional Reserve Banking had been practiced piecemeal since the 1880s, but the Federal Reserve ( created 1913 ) took it to a national level; by the time Black Tuesday rolled around, over 60% of the country's money supply was Fiat-only, unbacked by anything.
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06-14-2005, 05:07 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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I'm not sure I am posting this in the best thread, but Greenspan has carefully expressed concern about the growing "haves" and "have nots."
Rich-Poor Gap Gaining Attention By Peter Grier The Christian Science Monitor Tuesday 14 June 2005 A remark by Greenspan symbolizes concern that wealth disparities may destabilize the economy. Washington - The income gap between the rich and the rest of the US population has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself. Is that a liberal's talking point? Sure. But it's also a line from the recent public testimony of a champion of the free market: Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan. America's powerful central banker hasn't suddenly lurched to the left of Democratic National Committee chief Howard Dean. His solution is better education today to create a flexible workforce for tomorrow - not confiscation of plutocrats' yachts. But the fact that Mr. Greenspan speaks about this topic at all may show how much the growing concentration of national wealth at the top, combined with the uncertainties of increased globalization, worries economic policymakers as they peer into the future. "He is the conventional wisdom," says Jared Bernstein, senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal think tank. "When I'm arguing with people, I say, 'Even Alan Greenspan....' " Greenspan's comments at a Joint Economic Committee hearing last week were typical, for him. Asked a leading question by Sen. Jack Reed (D) of Rhode Island, he agreed that over the past two quarters hourly wages have shown few signs of accelerating. Overall employee compensation has gone up - but mostly due to a surge in bonuses and stock-option exercises. The Fed chief than added that the 80 percent of the workforce represented by nonsupervisory workers has recently seen little, if any, income growth at all. The top 20 percent of supervisory, salaried, and other workers has. The result of this, said Greenspan, is that the US now has a significant divergence in the fortunes of different groups in its labor market. "As I've often said, this is not the type of thing which a democratic society - a capitalist democratic society - can really accept without addressing," Greenspan told the congressional hearing. The cause of this problem? Education, according to Greenspan. Specifically, high school education. US children test above world average levels at the 4th grade level, he noted. By the 12th grade, they do not. "We have to do something to prevent that from happening," said Greenspan. So are liberals overjoyed by these words from a man who is the high priest of capitalism? Not really, or at least not entirely. For one thing, some liberal analysts prefer to focus on the very tip of the income scale, not the top 20 percent. Recent Congressional Budget Office data show that the top 1 percent of the population received 11.4 percent of national after-tax income in 2002, points out Isaac Shapiro of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities in a new study. That's up from a 7.5 percent share in 1979. By contrast, the middle fifth of the population saw its share of national after-tax income fall over that same period of time, from 16.5 to 15.8. "Income is now more concentrated at the very top of the income spectrum than in all but six years since the mid-1930s," asserts Mr. Shapiro in his report. For another, some Democratic analysts believe that Greenspan's emphasis on education as a cure ignores other causal factors of inequity. Data show an income gap widening among college graduates, says Mr. Bernstein. The quality of US high schools has nothing to do with that, he says. Instead it's partly a function of overall monetary and fiscal policies. "Greenspan takes a very long term view of the situation," says Bernstein. On the other hand, some conservatives label the whole inequality debate a myth. The media's recent focus on the subject stems from its liberal bias and clever press management by Democrats, they say. Inequality studies often ignore the wealth created by rising house prices, for instance - and homes represent the most substantial investment by many, if not most, Americans. Nor do US workers necessarily perceive themselves on the losing end of a rigged capitalist game. A recent New York Times survey found that while 44 percent of respondents said they had a working-class childhood, only 35 percent said they were working class today, points out Bruce Bartlett, a senior fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Eighteen percent said they grew up lower class, while only 7 percent said they remained in that societal segment. When Democrats today raise the inequality flag, they are simply trying to attack President Bush's tax cuts, albeit indirectly, says Mr. Bartlett. "A lot of this is driven by the estate-tax debate," he says. And as Greenspan himself points out, by many measures the economy is doing well. Unemployment is down, GDP is up. Inflation still slumbers. Current standards of living are unmatched. "So you can look at the system and say it's got a lot of problems to it, and sure it does. It always has," Greenspan told the JEC last week. "But you can't get around the fact that this is the most extraordinarily successful economy in history." Greenspan knows that the stockmarket hangs on his every word. It would seem that he wishes to ride the fence on this one. Is it a dangerous economy or an extraordinarily successful economy? |
06-15-2005, 01:38 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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alan, currency, depression, destruction, fiat, greenspan, legacy, worldwide |
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